IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-05-27
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01:37:10 <spacemaniac> is there a particular reason that things like GSTileList_IndustryProducing are subclasses instead of functions?
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02:43:58 <mmtunligit> were blocked station tiles a hack from before newobjects existed?
02:44:17 <mmtunligit> dont know my history here
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03:06:45 <reldred> plus station tiles can display waiting cargo, etc.
03:06:51 <reldred> and expand the coverage area
03:07:18 <reldred> I still think trackless station tiles are more appropriate for certain use cases than using newobjects
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05:59:53 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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06:31:53 <andythenorth> would it be helpful to do a news post about infra?
06:37:40 <LordAro> i don't think it's changed significantly since TB's last post
06:39:16 <andythenorth> mostly to provide notice that it is broken, and is likely to continue broken
06:39:41 <andythenorth> otherwise the vacuum will be filled with "and Atari have shut the servers"
06:40:34 <andythenorth> we don't have a status page afaiK, should we?
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06:41:51 <coobies> It is being discussed outside of this server so something definitive to link to could be useful for responding to those posts
06:43:32 <LordAro> oh, i didn't realise this was an ongoing thing
06:43:58 <coobies> Multiplayer is currently affected
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06:44:07 <andythenorth> pretty much why I was thinking of posting :)
06:45:03 <coobies> Actually, it seems fixed right now for me as I just tripled checked. But an hour or so ago, I was seeing maybe 10% the number of online servers as is normal. And others were reporting difficulty connecting to servers.
06:45:16 <coobies> An intermittent problem exists at least.
06:46:40 <andythenorth> - multiplayer is intermittent, and may be cleared by a restart
06:47:02 <andythenorth> - bananas auth is failing
06:47:12 <andythenorth> - bananas content listing / browsing is failing
06:48:11 <coobies> I was hesitant to describe this as a known ongoing problem without something official and benign to link to because of possible "what if it's Atari" speculation
06:48:38 <andythenorth> as I have no picture of the infra
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06:52:05 <andythenorth> 3 line news post?
06:53:26 <LordAro> based on TB's post a reboot of the affected infra should solve the problem for "a while"
06:53:29 <andythenorth> "We are aware of intermittent problems with some of the online services, primarily server listing and bananas. As a volunteer project, we're unable to provide any timeframe for a fix." Except less businessy
06:53:46 <LordAro> i think we just got unlucky that it broke again quickly this time round
06:54:01 <andythenorth> I'm old enough to remember when rolling reboots were just daily practice :P
06:54:44 <andythenorth> "probably a memory leak, no way to tell and nobody is going to sit up all night watching it, just restart at 6am daily"
06:56:37 <LordAro> but i guess if you want to write up a post, it might get approved ;)
06:57:22 <andythenorth> is this because I sold my old MBP? :P
06:57:30 <andythenorth> it was all fine until I did that
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07:02:16 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: Can you unsell your old MBP?
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07:12:44 <peter1138> Neither of the first two listed points appear to be issues.
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07:14:44 <LordAro> the key is 'intermittent'
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07:15:17 <LordAro> iirc there's two (sets of) nodes, and one is working
07:16:04 <andythenorth[d]> that's what TB explained to me in DM, then wrote up
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07:16:24 <andythenorth[d]> some nodes work, some don't, some traffic is dropped
07:16:33 <peter1138> LordAro, you know more about the infrastructure than me. Do you have access the secrets?
07:16:58 <LordAro> it may be beneficial for me to gain access
07:17:16 <andythenorth[d]> TB said that anyone with full 1Password access has *all* the creds
07:17:25 <andythenorth[d]> but I don't know who has full 1Password access
07:18:09 <peter1138> Anyway, in game content listing works. Via the bananas website not, So that's something quite important to include on an infrastructure news post.
07:18:10 <LordAro> i believe it's frosch, TB & Mr Rudge
07:20:44 <peter1138> Also no need to shorten infrastructure
07:21:27 <andythenorth> I wasn't sure `Infrastructure` was even a useful term
07:21:37 <peter1138> "Infra" isn't a word.
07:21:39 <LordAro> 'server infrastructure'
07:22:21 <peter1138> Maybe it refers to SAC's work.
07:22:35 <andythenorth> it was just from the name of the OpenTTD repo
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07:35:26 <andythenorth[d]> hmm maybe I should build the website locally and just screesnhot it, this is spammy
07:39:31 * andythenorth[d] reading jekyll docs
07:40:48 <andythenorth[d]> I can't figure out the url formatter
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09:46:15 <peter1138> Does Wikipedia's fundraising begging still work?
09:46:48 <peter1138> Well, I guess they do since they are sitting on so much money.
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10:59:36 <_glx_> Hmm but game-coordinator should have been restarted yesterday, it's annoying if it broke again so quickly
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11:33:13 <peter1138> I think people are just seeing that it was a problem, and then just not checking it again.
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11:40:25 <andythenorth[d]> "x is down" easily spreads FUD, if a few things go down simultaneously
11:40:44 <andythenorth[d]> the tt-forums and grf wiki also went down, but that's nothing to do with the OCI hosts
11:41:09 <andythenorth[d]> but reddit doesn't know that 🙂
11:42:05 <peter1138> Usually that's due to the current plague of LLM scrapers.
11:50:37 <andythenorth[d]> can the LLM scrapers perform status monitoring for us? 🙄
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12:19:56 <peter1138> No, LLMs don't do anything for us.
12:23:41 <mnhebi> Hmm, has anyone written an AI for OTTD with AI
12:24:01 * peter1138 hovers over the ban button.
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12:24:05 <LordAro> andy's tried to get it to understand squirrel a few times
12:24:16 <LordAro> usually without much success
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12:30:27 <andythenorth[d]> Squirrel is very poor choice for most of the world models
12:30:38 <andythenorth[d]> they do very well with python and JS
12:34:24 <andythenorth[d]> oh GPT 5.5 wrote a random industry generation GS that looks quite accurate to me
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12:43:38 <audigex> Yeah I find LLMs handle python pretty easily, they struggle with NML though
12:43:38 <audigex> You can fudge it if you spend some time explaining concepts, but it's still not great
12:43:38 <audigex> I've not tried fine tuning one or making eg a gpt that is directly pointed to the NML docs
12:46:08 <_glx_> the A is very true, and the I is very false anyway 🙂
12:50:31 <andythenorth[d]> it's just fancy multiline autocomplete
12:51:50 <andythenorth[d]> society will go through some confusion for a few years
12:52:06 <andythenorth[d]> sorting out how much of 'work' can't actually just be done as autocomplete
12:52:17 <andythenorth[d]> and that some 'work' actually can
12:54:06 <reldred> Expensive autocomplete
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12:56:37 <peter1138> My nuanced take is, just fuck off with it.
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13:02:07 <belajalilija> I’d love to be able to yeet excessive AI people
13:02:27 <belajalilija> The novelty of it has long worn off
13:05:58 <andythenorth[d]> it's just a tool, with a massive grift around it
13:09:30 <belajalilija> And like some tools, like weapons, access to it should be very linked to most people
13:11:22 <andythenorth[d]> copilot in every word and excel 😛
13:11:25 <andythenorth[d]> bird has flown
13:12:01 <belajalilija> We used to have more relaxed gun laws too
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13:14:59 <mnhebi> Well theres another old game community where some old senior dev is making some great tools with AI, but yeah it is just a shortcut not a genie
13:17:12 <mnhebi> Guy spending some serious $ tho..like 1k of tokens.
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13:25:48 <belajalilija> Surely there’s more fun things you can do for 1k
13:27:18 <belajalilija> That being said I’m not sure i want to know what some of these creatures do for fun
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13:36:43 <mnhebi> I dunno if it matters if it brings them joy whether or not there could be a "better" use
13:38:19 <belajalilija> Bringing joy is good but in a general sense i do question how true the joy a lot of modern tech brings is
13:40:15 <LordAro> maybe you're just getting old
13:40:17 <belajalilija> I’m not normally one for saying that such and such a time period was better but if the technology that the laymen interact with could go back to how it was in like 2006 that’d be great
13:40:41 <belajalilija> Nah, i like most things today
13:41:15 <belajalilija> It’s the availability of technology for the masses, and the requirement of it, that i dislike
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13:41:31 <emperorjake> You can rightly criticise AI all you want, but please let's not insult or dehumanise those who do choose to use it
13:41:47 <belajalilija> It has allowed too many people to spread their ideas and Labour under a false impression of being informed
13:42:01 <belajalilija> emperorjake: Fair
13:42:23 <LordAro> i see no insulting or dehumanising of any particular people
13:42:35 <belajalilija> I did call them creatures
13:43:20 <belajalilija> It’s pretty dehumanising
13:45:43 <belajalilija> The tech is the only thing I’d want to go backwards on
13:46:19 <belajalilija> In many other ways humans are still very backwards
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14:03:06 <andythenorth[d]> hmm trailers need more work 😛
14:03:14 <andythenorth[d]> issues with all the livery magic
14:03:46 <andythenorth[d]> fundamentally Horse splits engines and wagons, and sometimes that means humpty dumpty has to be glued back together with string
14:04:10 <belajalilija> I’m guessing we’ve not unlocked 4 of them yet?
14:06:10 <andythenorth[d]> maybe AI can fix it
14:15:18 <peter1138> JGRPP also splits engines and wagons, so isn't that idea?
14:16:32 <audigex> mnhebi: Yeah that's a major issue with it, especially when people get deep into "vibecoding"
14:16:32 <audigex> It's not too bad if you just pay $10-20/mo for higher usage limits on the chatbot, but the API side can get VERY expensive very fast
14:16:32 <audigex> There are reports some companies have realised it's cheaper to just hire another junior developer to do that kinda task for seniors
14:20:25 <andythenorth[d]> "grift is coming"
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14:35:12 <audigex> Unrelated: Have we let AI take a swing at a shunting patch yet?
14:38:59 <mnhebi> audigex: Yeah why I'm installing a local modem on my old rig once I get around to it...too bad I can't install 96gb of vram on the gpu.
14:40:03 <mnhebi> While it has 96gb of ordinary ram I don't expect it'll be too quick with the 8gb gpu.
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14:47:27 <mnhebi> audigex: Probably not enough context space for that tbh.
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15:12:02 <andythenorth[d]> I would guess Shunting requires origination
15:12:55 <andythenorth[d]> I would give it a 0% chance of success
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17:00:07 <rito12_13> for (++t; t.IsValid(); ++t) {...}
17:00:07 <rito12_13> Will that iterate from the second tile until an invalid one is found?
17:00:32 <LordAro> i'd have thought so, but if you have to ask...
17:03:07 <rito12_13> and it is valid for OTTD's coding style?
17:05:14 <andythenorth[d]> wonder if a restart will bring Bananas web back up
17:05:29 <andythenorth[d]> hmm in the explanation to me, TB said it's bananas API that has the issue
17:05:29 <peter1138> Can we restart andythenorth[d]?
17:05:38 <andythenorth[d]> I restart daily around midnight
17:06:49 <rito12_13> peter1138: even if tile is TileIndex?
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17:07:49 <squirejames> andythenorth[d]: Cold reset or warm? (or does it depend on whether tea is on hand?)
17:08:38 <audigex> andythenorth[d]: Well then I declare AI a complete waste of time
17:15:37 <rito12_13> Aw, so I've been doing it wrong all the time
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17:25:13 <_jgr_> rito12_13: What are you really trying to do here? You should probably also consider the freeform edges setting, etc.
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17:33:26 <rito12_13> i'm changing the tile type returned for new grf depending on what associated tiles the tile has
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17:44:05 <_glx_> Tile and TileIndex have implicit conversion everywhere IIRC
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19:15:41 <peter1138> _glx_, hmm, STUN stuff seems unhappy again at the moment :(
19:16:00 <_glx_> I think it's TURN, not STUN
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19:24:06 <_glx_> coordinator should have restarted now, but "Internal error: server_connect_failed() called on a server NOT managed by us" reported on sentry 2 minutes ago
19:24:29 <_glx_> and "Internal error: server_stun_request() called on a server NOT managed by us"
19:25:00 <peter1138> Could just be a stale connection attempt.
19:25:32 <_glx_> I saw the same errors yesterday too
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19:26:51 <peter1138> Appears to be working better now, anyway.
19:27:04 <_glx_> but indeed errors could be related to the restart
19:27:25 <_glx_> there's only 1 dependabot PR left 🙂
19:28:48 <_glx_> had to "consume" 2 yesterday because the first merge didn't trigger the action (github fault)
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