IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-04-06
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00:27:52 <talltyler> Lots of rebasing required now 🙂
00:28:11 <talltyler> (luckily all easy, just settings padding being removed)
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07:05:56 <reldred> awwww previews are still buggered aren't they?
07:06:18 <peter1138> *deliberately disabled
07:06:38 <reldred> i caught TB online when he said he turned it off due to leaking secrets or somesuch
07:06:52 <reldred> I wanted to fiddle with reversing trains again
07:07:37 <reldred> sigh, guess i could compile it :widdle_goblin:
07:09:20 <_glx_> Previews work but the result link is not easily accessible (I'm working on that)
07:11:56 <_glx_> The new way requires manual GitHub API calls, but I have something that seems to work on my fork
07:21:26 <reldred> i just want reversing trains/#15391 merged already so it can start making its way into jgrpp 😭
07:22:07 <reldred> granted, if peters drivethrough depot exploration bears fruit that'll be most of my usual blockers for playing trunk openttd cleared.
07:22:37 <reldred> before unbunching it was always autosep that caused me the most mental anguish
07:25:05 <peter1138> Just infiltrate the dev team, get approval rights, then merge it?
07:25:32 <reldred> that would take quite some effort on my behalf
07:26:15 <reldred> including actually learning c++ to some halfway competent level, rather than my 'i'm gonna smack this one small thing with a wrench til it does what I want and giveup when it doesn't work'
07:36:11 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 14 of 2026 (by OpenTTD Survey)
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07:46:35 <peter1138> I'm too busy with Minecraft.
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08:11:45 <reldred> I’ve been playing Starfield again
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08:39:18 <Borg> after more analisis... that stuff is not worth implementing :) it will be too costly..
08:39:46 <Borg> either I need to cache signals ahead.. or do TrackFollow to recheck..
08:40:05 <Borg> easier will to just slap waypoint and use current order check :)
08:41:15 <orudge> peter1138: not sure if you were still working on the baseset detection stuff for Atari TTD, but their developers are going to add a text file in a known location that we can pick up (i.e. inside their existing appdata folder). So that should make it platform-agnostic and easy to check.
08:43:07 <peter1138> Yeah, I stalled because adding search path logic to an API called "Social Integration API" felt very weird, and the only workable implementation is for Steam.
08:50:44 <peter1138> orudge, would that need it to be run at least once? So far I installed it but didn't run :)
08:52:00 <orudge> Yes, I expect it would, not sure there'd be a way around that
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09:03:42 <peter1138> Well, that's not your normal nick.
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09:18:44 <peter1138> So many doxygen warnings :)
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09:57:43 <peter1138> (Only got about half-way)
10:13:07 <peter1138> rito12, in the PR I just updated from about a year ago, before the rules :)
10:50:16 <talltyler> Hmm, need to dig into this station reservation change some more. Frosch wrote that part, but the codebase seems to have diverged since then:
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11:11:04 <peter1138> talltyler, notice the difference between FreeTrainReservation and FreeTrainTrackReservation.
11:11:42 <peter1138> I don't think you need to change this code at all, FreeTrainReservation already handles both ends.
11:18:29 <peter1138> And RestoreTrainReservation() shouldn't be removed either.
11:18:42 <talltyler> Yep. Probably should un-delete RestoreTrainReservation too, and adapt it for the moving back.
11:18:59 <peter1138> You basically undid a change that split off code into two concise functions :)
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11:20:02 <peter1138> Weirdly that change was 9 years ago.
11:20:49 <peter1138> While frosch123's code says 2023, it actually predates that change.
11:21:20 <peter1138> I know it's a bit late now, but often you are better off rewriting code than rebasing ancient code.
11:22:00 <talltyler> Yeah, I know I am guilty of cargo-culting... 🙂
11:22:20 <talltyler> frosch's code was written before that change and rebased
11:24:49 <will_marshall_> I'm glad I'm rewriting the diagonal crossing code, at least the graphics part of it first.
11:25:01 <will_marshall_> My rebase attempt was a real headache.
11:25:09 <talltyler> Right, that's the review comments sorted, will test later to make sure everything still works before I push 🙂
11:35:43 <peter1138> talltyler, not quite, it was rebased but couldn't have been rebased to 2023 code -- it still has p1, p2, etc.
11:39:58 <peter1138> Yeah, I'm pretty sure you don't need to touch FreeTrainReservation or RestoreTrainReversion, not the callers.
11:42:01 <Borg> hah.. actually.. I should use rebasing more too.. but im too lazy.. I just prefer merge master to topic. and once topic is done, merge is back w/ squash
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12:53:27 <peter1138> reldred, sorry, I didn't yolo it :p
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12:56:16 <peter1138> Steam "forum" commenters would all rather be angry at us than appreciate a bugfix release. No surprise of course :)
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13:05:22 <davidxn> I don’t understand how anyone can get this apoplectically furious about a transport game
13:07:09 <peter1138> Pretty sure most of them have no intent of ever playing the game.
13:10:30 <mmtunligit> many brainworms, very little brains left
13:22:45 <andythenorth> peter1138: do we care? :)
13:22:52 <andythenorth> who's "we" anyway :P
13:23:27 <peter1138> You brought "we" into it.
13:23:59 <peter1138> I don't care. And I am possibly a code contributor.
13:25:01 <peter1138> There is a difference between "observing it", and "observing it and proposing some strange reaction that won't make anything better".
13:25:34 <peter1138> Speaking of observing, I should finish making that cup of tea.
13:27:39 <andythenorth> I should have lunch
13:27:54 <andythenorth> and stop reading Steam comments, it has become a strange fascination
13:27:54 <peter1138> Oops, I think I committed too much there :)
13:28:25 <peter1138> My gui git tree hadn't refreshed.
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13:40:56 <squirejames> Steam forumites make no sense.
13:41:28 <andythenorth> there's more than one of them :P
13:42:10 <squirejames> More like a Hydra. Different heads, all the same nauseating body 😛
13:45:53 <peter1138> Oh, that tea was 20 minutes ago.
13:47:31 <peter1138> Tea, brown, luke warm.
13:47:40 <peter1138> Jean Luc Picard would be pissed.
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13:51:29 <talltyler> Ugh, got a "Disconnecting train" after making those changes
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15:30:17 <x1vi_zi> What has been going on with TDD, I need to improve my PR descriptions but I am also kinda busy with the job
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18:30:13 <squirejames> Oddly it seems others have had the same thoughts as me today and beat me to it twice 😛 but, to back up what Belaya was saying earlier, (but in a place that both peeps can read it) I just want to thank the newGRF makers out there, especially folks like Andy or Timberwolf, for being so accepting of derivative works and the like. We stand on the shoulders of giants with the work you've done, and we'd
18:30:13 <squirejames> be a lot poorer as a community without that spirit of creativity and openess. So, yeah thumbs up and everything 🙂
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20:11:50 <_glx_> yeah forced to go manual 🙂
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21:09:08 <belajalilija> Has any work ever been made towards improving how trees work?
21:09:08 <belajalilija> Like in terms of allowing more tree types, having then follow seasons, etc
21:09:32 <peter1138> I had a play a little while ago.
21:09:59 <andythenorth> GS could do trees
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21:10:47 <belajalilija> I really do appreciate everything going on recently and love what’s being worked on but I’ve long thought that trees feel forgotten about but rarely remember to say
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21:11:32 <peter1138> I'm kinda used to people trying to remove them ;)
21:11:40 <peter1138> Hmm, where did my branch go...
21:11:40 <belajalilija> Not even forgotten about by devs, but the community as a whole
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21:12:11 <peter1138> "Fun" thing with trees is there direct relationship between tree sprites and tree tiles.
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21:12:35 <belajalilija> For me they’re just such a simple thing that makes the game pretty
21:13:04 <belajalilija> What does that mean?
21:18:26 <andythenorth> git branch branch
21:18:41 <andythenorth> git branch branch-v2-final-final
21:25:20 <andythenorth> git branch gpl-v3
21:28:45 <squirejames> Seasonal trees would be lovely
21:29:57 <andythenorth> can we call the tree branch "working-tree"?
21:30:10 <belajalilija> squirejames: And grf trees
21:30:21 <andythenorth> hmm "goes-it-trees"
21:31:45 <belajalilija> Then we could scots pines, silver birch, copper birch, cherry blossom, apple blossom, rowan trees, yew, etc
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21:37:37 <belajalilija> More tree types would also allow meadows
21:38:11 <will_marshall_> perfect 6x6 grid of meadows
21:38:49 <andythenorth> hmm are trees a type of fields?
21:39:48 <belajalilija> Could make moors
21:39:49 <squirejames> I also have a pretty good source of sprites for trees so, hmmm i'm listening 🙂
21:40:03 <belajalilija> With gorse and heather
21:40:08 <squirejames> YATP - Yet Another Tree Patch
21:40:08 <squirejames> NTT - New Tree Types
21:40:35 <mmtunligit> i mean you could already do more if you jsut exposed the hidden types to the selector
21:41:06 <belajalilija> squirejames: UKTS
21:41:23 <belajalilija> Representative UK Tree Set
21:48:53 <reldred> With naked ladies in the trees?
21:49:19 <belajalilija> Do trees for next April fools and announce that the TTD in OpenTTD stands for Tall Trees Deluxe
21:49:40 <will_marshall_> speak softly and draw a big tree...
21:49:46 <belajalilija> reldred: I was thinking of dbset tbf
21:50:22 <will_marshall_> long vehicles was truly visionary for an era before drive-thru road stops
21:50:27 <belajalilija> Naked ladies in trees would feel very carry on
21:50:52 <will_marshall_> 25m long coach bus pirouetting in the tiny bus station
21:51:18 <belajalilija> Carry on up the trail?
21:51:29 <peter1138> I suppose you've not seen what the 32bpp extra zoom people get up to...
21:51:43 <belajalilija> I don’t wanna see
21:51:44 <will_marshall_> 32bpp extra zoom "people" thank you
21:52:09 <belajalilija> And leave 32bpp out of this smh
21:52:19 <will_marshall_> 32bpp is a needless perversion, change my view
21:52:49 <belajalilija> 8bpp sucks for real liveries
21:52:58 <reldred> I have no major problems with 32bpp, its extra zoom I don’t particularly care for
21:53:15 <will_marshall_> extra zoom is an accessibility feature for people like me with bad brains
21:53:30 <reldred> And I don’t particularly care for pre-rendered sprites
21:53:49 <reldred> I prefer my organic home grown pixel painted sprites thanks
21:54:12 <will_marshall_> i guess if you only want to hand-paint sprites extrazoom is just making more work for yourself
21:54:51 <belajalilija> Standard zoom 32bpp is perfection
21:55:20 <will_marshall_> speaking of pre-rendered sprites i've beefed something in my voxels and now my closed level crossings don't line up with my open ones
21:55:28 <reldred> JP+ does 32bpp quite exquisitely.
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21:55:46 <su1phur> reldred: :Monarch_Depressed:
21:56:26 <belajalilija> reldred: So do i 😤
21:56:31 <will_marshall_> but on the bright side the graphics are getting there for diagonal crossings
21:59:36 <talltyler> Are UK gates not perpendicular to the road?
22:00:08 <will_marshall_> You're gonna fall into the prototype trap and never escape.
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22:00:24 <notluke2578> talltyler: they are
22:00:37 <will_marshall_> they can be anything they want
22:00:39 <notluke2578> not the wooden ones though
22:01:00 <belajalilija> Wooden crossing gates 🥰
22:01:13 <will_marshall_> if you want your gate sprites to be aligned across the road and have a big long fence you can draw yours that way
22:03:51 <talltyler> Ah, you’re trying to meet the fence of the rail tiles
22:04:54 <will_marshall_> Well at first I was trying to avoid making too many new sprite entries because that'll make newgrf devs grumpy.
22:05:14 <will_marshall_> but as it stands I think you need gates that cover a 45 and a 135 degree sweep for each orientation
22:06:45 <will_marshall_> do these level crossing gates look perpendicular to you jokers?
22:12:58 <reldred> you know slagging people off and calling them jokers usually isn't the best way of winning people over
22:13:20 <will_marshall_> it's a very very gentle comment, don't get it twisted
22:14:17 <will_marshall_> saying that x is always y is a blunder i see people make all the time, there's always counter examples.
22:14:27 <mmtunligit> i think the gates should probably be close to where the vehicles stop
22:15:35 <will_marshall_> mmtunligit: generally agree, you get the whole tile to work with to put your gates/lights on and the vehicles won't enter any of the tile.
22:16:39 <will_marshall_> i figure there's two ways of looking at the diagonal crossing, either they should be unobtrusive things that you barely notice from either the road's or the rail's perspective
22:16:44 <reldred> that one is weird because the intersection with beagle terrace
22:17:13 <will_marshall_> or they should be points where (because of the angle of intersection) the *road* has to make a kink to cross the rails at 90 degrees and then carry on
22:17:53 <will_marshall_> the reason i think this is an essential bit of work is because in openttd your only option is to turn the road into a bridge (eww) or to add a kink into the rails which is just wrong
22:18:24 <will_marshall_> so with trying to tuck the gates and lights up against the rails, i'm suggesting the first sort (the crossing is an unobtrusive thing where these two modes cleanly cross)
22:18:31 <reldred> Oh we absolutely need diagonal crossings, not doubting that one bit
22:18:55 <will_marshall_> and if you pull the gates out to the boundary of the crossing tile and extend the railway boundary to encompass more of the road - you're sort of suggesting a kink in the road
22:19:03 <reldred> I just dont necesarily agree with the angled lights
22:19:24 <will_marshall_> anyway, it should be up to the rail set designer to choose
22:20:09 <will_marshall_> the lights matching the angle of the road and the gates matching the angle of the railway is just what occured to me as the most logical design 😛
22:20:24 <reldred> Just remember you're going to need to cover openttd.grf for simon foster sprites and opengfx1/2 to get it merged.
22:20:47 <will_marshall_> yeah and for those I will ask people what should be done and probably seek some assistance setting up the sprites
22:21:18 <will_marshall_> i'm doing the newgrf approach first because i have the toolchain and the ability to use it already in hand wheras my hand-drawn sprites are programmer art (derogatory)
22:21:29 <will_marshall_> i'm aware that the sprites will be polarising 🙂
22:22:09 <reldred> I don't really find it polarising, I just find it doesn't match any examples I've seen with my own eyeballs.
22:23:12 <reldred> this ones a tram/lightrail crossing but anyway
22:23:13 <will_marshall_> if you find the whole set's style not to be your cup of tea then the fact that i've arranged the modern sprites this way is a nonstarter too, all I'm trying to do is get the right sprites displaying in the right place and then i'll go back for an art pass
22:24:09 <reldred> Yeah I don't really care how you arrange your own set, I won't use it anyway. I just disagree with your statement that it's logical.
22:24:30 <will_marshall_> logical "to me"!
22:24:45 <will_marshall_> i do lots of stupid nonsense all the time, ask my coworkers.
22:24:56 <reldred> well you're wrooooooooooong and you know we can't abide people being wrong on the internet 😛
22:25:46 <will_marshall_> This is all so much easier at work where I just drop the "Lead Programmer" creds and that means what I say goes 😛
22:25:56 <reldred> OK this one is cursed enough to be funny:
22:26:02 <peter1138> Presumably if we do diagonal crossings it'll be up to authors, they could provide rail-parallel or road-perpendicular barriers, right?
22:26:12 <will_marshall_> peter1138: Yeah exactly.
22:26:21 <reldred> Yeah realistically, I'm just being a prat
22:26:21 <will_marshall_> Sprites don't care.
22:26:35 <will_marshall_> Well the first step to recovery is admitting the prattitude.
22:26:44 <belajalilija> It’s getting 🧩 in here
22:26:52 <will_marshall_> I'm not, I got tested.
22:26:59 <peter1138> Tropical trees in temperate, eh?
22:27:47 <peter1138> Arctic trees too, but they basically look the same as temperate anyway.
22:27:54 <reldred> Testing in adults is infamously flawed btw 😛
22:28:17 <belajalilija> Masking ftw :samsungcool:
22:28:37 <will_marshall_> You're all being very naughty in the serious development channel, I'm going to bed.
22:29:16 <belajalilija> will_marshall_: When you were tested did you mention you volunteer code for a 90s pixel train game?
22:30:08 <reldred> Yes it's about time for me to pretend to do some work now anyway
22:30:44 <reldred> It's a WFH day though so you're not getting away from me that easily
22:32:00 <will_marshall_> belajalilija: They were chasing after me with the big rubber stamp when I said that my dad was a trainspotter but I pretended to be a traffic light for 25 minutes and lost them.
22:32:52 <will_marshall_> If I get into work tomorrow and my manager has screenshots of this conversation I don't think I'll be in trouble but it's probably better to quit while I'm ahead.
22:34:47 <reldred> I've already told my boss I'm a sperg. She was apologising once to me because she introduced me to some contractors who wouldn't shake hands with me for religious/cultural reasons and I had to remind her that I'm autistic and if she hadn't said anything *I wouldn't have even bloody noticed* lmao
22:36:02 <will_marshall_> I manage so many really brilliant people with autism but it really doesn't come up very much in our line of work.
22:37:04 <reldred> No not really, if anything I only really joke about it to de-stigmatise it.
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22:38:07 <audigex> will_marshall_: Yeah please use the off-topic channel (AKA Discord channel #add-on-development )... not to be confused with Discord channel #off-topic-1 which is mostly Dutch for some reason
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22:38:23 <olionkey> because they wont use Discord channel #non-english
22:39:00 <peter1138> It was on-topic but then... derailed.
22:39:35 <reldred> plus i don't want to talk to those people, i want to talk to the people that are in here because they're more interesting 😛
22:39:49 <peter1138> Hmm, do I do savegame conversion, or just allow trees from all existing climates :/
22:40:09 <will_marshall_> Savegame conversion and versioning seems miserable, best not to bother.
22:40:14 <reldred> peter's playing with trees?
22:40:55 <reldred> I do like tropics unique behavior of different trees along coasts/inland
22:41:19 <reldred> though you did say the behavior around coasts seems to be an openttd thing moreso than regular ttd
22:41:29 <peter1138> Don't forget that one "tree" that's allowed in deserts.
22:41:29 <reldred> guess I can test that more thoroughly now thanks atari
22:41:49 <reldred> the one tree, that's actually two.
22:41:56 <peter1138> Related to my earlier comment.
22:42:16 <peter1138> It's one tree tile type, and that has two different tree sprites.
22:42:16 <audigex> will_marshall_: I do wonder if we'll ever see an update that breaks savegame compatibility. I have no opinion either way, but it would be an interesting event in OpenTTD history
22:42:49 <reldred> I play with enough in-development grfs and features that exist only as PR's that my savegames get broken on the regular anyway
22:43:27 <will_marshall_> audigex: What'd be a compelling reason to break savegame backwards compat? If we (for some insane reason) went to Locomotion-style puzzle-piece track?
22:43:39 <will_marshall_> It's just a list of things that if you did it, it wouldn't be OpenTTD anymore.
22:44:05 <will_marshall_> If you break savegames (or newgrf, for that matter) you might as well be a fork.
22:44:27 <will_marshall_> Any OpenTTD forks worth mentioning out there?
22:44:37 <peter1138> I broke very old cargo/industry NewGRFs that nobody really uses any more.
22:44:49 <reldred> I mean, there are already enough loud commentators on the reddit and steam community that believe OpenTTD has already long since past that point.
22:45:09 <peter1138> What is it, 9 toyland tree sprites?
22:45:23 <reldred> dunno didn't count the toyland ones
22:45:29 <audigex> will_marshall_: I'd assume it would be some major change to the way the map works or the way vehicles work or something to that kind of effect
22:45:39 <reldred> I counted up all the tropic ones when I made my fork of U&trees to cover deserts
22:45:59 <reldred> was like twenty something trees
22:46:17 <will_marshall_> weird that there isn't a count of trees in like, sprites.h
22:46:22 <will_marshall_> I guess it never comes up?
22:46:25 <peter1138> We haven't (deliberately) broken savegame compatibility in 20+ years, no reason to think we might ever.
22:46:55 <peter1138> Tree sprites are referenced by hexadecimal SpriteID, just as Mr Sawyer intended.
22:47:13 <will_marshall_> c. sawyer (peace be upon him)
22:48:22 <peter1138> (Also the toyland trees are in the main GRF, they're sprite replacements of temperate trees)
22:56:35 *** asasnat has joined #openttd
22:56:35 <asasnat> audigex: I feel like if you changed OpenTTD to such an extent that a) savegame backwards compatibility would be compromised and b) it wouldn't be possible to write a compatibility layer for older savegames, it wouldn't be OpenTTD at all anymore
22:57:05 <asasnat> or maybe it would still be OpenTTD, but the first T would stand for "Toilet" instead of "Transport"
23:13:04 <belajalilija> And the second T would be tower
23:17:36 *** exceptik has joined #openttd
23:17:36 <exceptik> belajalilija: Toilet tower? Interesting idea
23:19:13 <belajalilija> exceptik: Yes ttd
23:30:52 <reldred> peter1138 are you familiar with jgrpp's arctic treeline patch? allows temperate trees in arctic but only below the treeline, the band of 'arctic' trees around the snowline is then configurable range.
23:32:03 <reldred> takes some fiddling that could probably be automated but you end up with a nice band of vegetation changing as the height levels increase, then above the snowline it then fades out til you get a proper bare snow capped mountaintops
23:33:38 <peter1138> No. Step 1 here is rearranging tree data so that it can be extended by NewGRF, while working the same.
23:33:59 <peter1138> Although no doubt someone has a savegame that mixes trees from different climates already.
23:34:17 <reldred> well, I'll shut up and let you cook 🙂
23:58:52 <talltyler> I had a go at alpine terrain, too high for trees, the idea was to have more rocks. But I had various conceptual issues and gave up. 🙂
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