IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-02-26
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05:07:22 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
06:33:40 <ahyangyi> __abigail: That story is basically AI running itself and pretending to receive commands from a dog
06:33:58 <ahyangyi> And let's be honest, none of the built "games" look remotely interesting
06:33:58 <__abigail> ahyangyi: Yeah I'm taking the piss
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08:38:11 <peter1138> We're all doomed though
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10:20:33 <LordAro> peter1138: doomed i tell you
10:51:13 <xarick> do you get a notification when somebody forks your repository?
11:02:18 <xarick> erm... HogEx uses UTF-8-BOM
11:02:46 <xarick> is this convertible to ANSI?
11:03:55 <peter1138> Why would you use something obsolet
11:07:12 <xarick> because debug log only prints ANSI, I think
11:08:16 <peter1138> What debug log? OpenTTD only uses UTF-8.
11:10:18 <xarick> oh, right Hog is a japanese
11:29:45 <_glx_> And utf-8 BOM is fine in squirrel
11:37:16 <mnhebi> peter1138: Always have been
11:41:57 <xarick> okay, let's try print this to AI debug window: 新しいindustryが建設されるのを待ってみる
11:45:04 <peter1138> Make sure you have have a font loaded that supports those characters.
11:45:29 <peter1138> Yes, the default font doesn't support those characters.
11:46:01 <peter1138> If you change game language it will try to autodetect a suitable font.
11:54:54 <xarick> I wonder about the pound symbol
11:56:35 <xarick> wow, it works, very strange that it doesn't work on choochoo
11:57:22 <_glx_> ANSI vs utf-8 pound symbol?
12:03:48 <peter1138> What is interesting>
12:05:21 <peter1138> When you switch language and it detects a different font, it is not changing anything about character encoding. It's simply loading a font that has those characters present.
12:10:53 <xarick> clearly I don't understand how this works
12:11:52 <xarick> notepad++ has all these options
12:14:56 <xarick> converted from UTF-8-BOM to UTF-8:
12:16:20 <xarick> Is it Notepad++ fault or Openttd? I don't know
12:18:10 <xarick> it still looks japanese in notepad
12:23:21 <peter1138> It's you, definitely.
12:26:47 <xarick> when you say OpenTTD supports UTF-8, you actually mean UTF-8-BOM
12:26:58 <xarick> at least from the Notepad++ perspective
12:28:43 <xarick> github desktop detects a chance in utils.nut for some obscure reason
12:28:46 <Rubidium> xarick, please stop using us as your LLM/search engine prompt
12:30:40 <peter1138> Yeah, without the BOM it falls back to ASCII.
12:30:56 <peter1138> So just leave it as UTF-8-BOM.
12:31:17 <__abigail> Rubidium: Certainly! Here's a message you could use to tell a cunt to fuck off—
12:32:27 <peter1138> `_io_file_lexfeed_ASCII` seems like it's avoiding our naming convention/code-style.
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12:32:38 <reldred> To think it used to be me who swore the most on here 😛
12:32:51 <reldred> Time to pass on the mantle
12:34:57 <peter1138> Can it be 25 years ago?
12:36:22 <__abigail> I should've started the job search 25 years ago
12:38:22 <_glx_> xarick: Nothing obscure, you added or removed the first character of the line (BOM or no BOM)
12:40:24 <reldred> peter1138: Would be nice, though I don’t know if I’d be where I am now if I had done certain things 25yrs ago instead of 5yrs ago.
12:41:24 <reldred> Though my favourite epic 40k and BFG kits would still be on the shelves…
12:47:52 <__abigail> 25 years ago means I'm not around so that's obviously something you'd want to avoid
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12:56:57 <andythenorth> "we're all doomed and should definitely be paying $20 / month to each AI vendor to stay ahead and not be doomed"
12:57:18 <andythenorth> "the ones who will come out ahead in this great collapse are those who jump on AI tools now"
12:57:33 <andythenorth> TL;DR of something one of you linked yesterday :P
13:03:26 <peter1138> No, VS Code, the source has not changed since I built it. Let me debug.
13:29:45 <DorpsGek> peter1138: 15.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only
13:33:17 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "15.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
13:58:53 <xarick> Gold Mine is making an AI
14:00:32 <peter1138> Anyway, after saying hopefully 15.2 is the last... 15.3?
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14:48:27 <xarick> I have a suggestion... could breakdown durations for road vehicles be reduced
14:55:38 <_glx_> Yes, disable breakdowns
14:57:12 <goddess_ishtar> reldred: I swear like a sailor in private but here it's important to remain at least somewhat professional
15:07:28 <peter1138> goddess_ishtar, I think you mean fucking professional.
15:07:53 <goddess_ishtar> professionals have fucking standards
15:08:15 <peter1138> Did you happen to see a complaint that, uh, allowing bridges over stations was, uh... forced on people...
15:08:47 <goddess_ishtar> goddamn, people get more and more entitled every fucking year
15:12:10 <squirejames> Indeed I saw that one. It seems to be a Steam thing "Lets piss and moan about a completely free game"
15:14:12 <goddess_ishtar> I still think about that one Reddit comment bitching about the new main menu
15:14:43 <goddess_ishtar> "I'm not a queer catgirl, my pupils aren't vertical slots"
15:14:56 <goddess_ishtar> thanks autocorrect
15:15:55 <goddess_ishtar> frankly out of all of the open source communities I'm in, the OpenTTD dev community has the smallest proportion of queer therians/furries I've seen
15:16:23 <peter1138> It's ever-growing though.
15:17:11 <Rubidium> peter1138: alternatively 16.0-RC1? :D
15:17:40 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: I'd know :3
15:17:42 <peter1138> That would cement 15.x as a flop.
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15:18:35 <LordAro> i think 16.0-anything requires improved shared multiplayer auth stuff
15:18:47 <LordAro> and the announcement of a new title game
15:18:49 <peter1138> I should continue with my idea on that.
15:18:59 <peter1138> Title game is a given.
15:19:03 <LordAro> possibly with the announcement of having 4 title games, which i quite like the idea of
15:20:24 <peter1138> Supporting that is a fun little task you've given yourself.
15:21:14 <goddess_ishtar> what like, switch between them based on the new game setting?
15:21:28 <LordAro> which is very much an idea only
15:22:24 <goddess_ishtar> >>> Literallu impossibru!!!111
15:22:24 <goddess_ishtar> Each GRF has an ID, within each there are unique names. The game already needs to track this and save to a save game. All that would need to be done is to keep a global config file with all the names. An hour of work at most.
15:22:24 <goddess_ishtar> I have no opinion either way, but at least don't speak on things you have no idea about.
15:22:39 <peter1138> goddess_ishtar, anyway, maybe there's more little features to force on people that you'd like to contribute ;)
15:23:08 <peter1138> The irony is heavily laden.
15:23:09 <LordAro> (also, possibly some tweaks/improvements/rethinks of the new main menu)
15:23:29 <LordAro> (no i have no ideas about what that might be)
15:23:38 <goddess_ishtar> why do people always get pissy and defensive and go for *as hominem* attacks when their proposals get reality checked
15:23:43 <squirejames> goddess_ishtar: Yeah that was....weird
15:24:05 <squirejames> goddess_ishtar: It's the last domain of the insecure.
15:24:09 <goddess_ishtar> squirejames: can't have fun pixel trains because of woke 😔
15:24:09 <peter1138> Main menu itself is fine, but getting into the scenario editor is not. There's a PR for that.
15:24:37 <LordAro> an hour of work to hack something together? possibly. To do it in a way that will work for literally anyone else? Perhaps not
15:26:55 <goddess_ishtar> squirejames: I wanted to reply with something along the lines of "hi! as one of the queer foxgirl OpenTTD contributors you appreciate so much, I've heard your complaints and I have decided to make the main menu twice as tall. As an open-source game, OpenTTD relies on community engagement on the development of new features. Thanks for your feedback!"
15:27:03 <jfkuayue> I guess its "old players habit", but i can see the new main menu could make novice players clearer, compared to the former
15:27:30 <goddess_ishtar> the one thing I don't really like about the main menu is NewGRF settings are two clicks away instead of one
15:27:33 <LordAro> jfkuayue: you seem to have identified one of the main reasons it was done
15:27:51 <goddess_ishtar> but yeah the newer menu is much cleaner
15:31:43 <xarick> at first I didn't like it, because settings for ais, and game settings moved, but now i'm used to it
15:31:56 <xarick> just requires more clicks
15:32:37 <goddess_ishtar> the merge of Settings and Options is mostly spacebar heating imo
15:33:11 <goddess_ishtar> having them together is a lot more logical, especially since the Advanced Settings *does* contain client-side stuff too
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15:34:40 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: not so much a "little feature" but I'm still trying to work on NewGRF folders
15:36:31 <goddess_ishtar> I was going to have them as separate container elements at first but I think it'd be a lot more versatile if I allowed arbitrary nesting of NewGRFs in the load order, like vehicle variants in the buy list
15:36:53 <goddess_ishtar> it'd especially be good for big sets like Auz which ship a lot of individual GRFs
15:37:03 <goddess_ishtar> just group all of them together
15:40:27 <squirejames> Small potentially tense question, speaking of "things forced on us".
15:40:27 <squirejames> Its probably entirely a me issue but I cannot seem to have OpenTTD in a resizeable window any more. It's either fullscreen (which is great, haven't had fullscreen TTD since the 90s 😄 but I do like to see when I get notifications etc) or its windowed but not resizeable, so, its either smaller than it needs to be or the bottom of the screen is beneath my task bar (and again I like to see things like
15:40:27 <squirejames> my funds, the year, tickertape messages etc)
15:40:27 <squirejames> This functionality seemed to change from previous versions to 15. (and through associated JGR versions).
15:40:27 <squirejames> Am i just a bit derpy and can't figure out how to do it?
15:41:08 <goddess_ishtar> either way it's probably going to require changing the way the game loads GRF objects, because I want them to be stored in the save
15:41:24 <goddess_ishtar> squirejames: which OS are you on?
15:42:04 <LordAro> windowed but not resizable sounds... weird
15:42:16 <squirejames> (Home, I think, used to be Professional but my MBR corrupted back in July and I had to reinstall)
15:42:21 <LordAro> sounds like it's actually still full screen but not focused
15:42:26 <squirejames> LordAro: I'll see if I can demonstrate
15:42:57 <LordAro> (OTTD doesn't have a 'windowed fullscreen' mode, as nice as it would be to have)
15:43:30 <LordAro> (i did briefly have a play with implementing that a few weeks ago but got lost in the weeds around the video drivers being odd
15:44:07 <goddess_ishtar> squirejames: ...you're not using GPT?
15:44:44 <goddess_ishtar> or did you just mean your partition table in general
15:44:48 <squirejames> Okay so, ahem 😄 was likely a me thing. Just tried it again and it lets me resize. Possibly an issue with one of the previous JGR versions but more likely an "issue between chair and keyboard"
15:45:06 <goddess_ishtar> problem solved:p
15:45:50 <squirejames> goddess_ishtar: Basically one day it decided I didn't have an nVME any more, that it was there but blank. That wasn't fun. Completely blank. So, I can only determine that the main boot went poop, and thats why it appeared blank (or, functionally was, I did try and do file recovery afterward but)
15:46:00 <squirejames> Luckily most of my stuff is on other drives, for this very reason.
15:46:40 <LordAro> goddess_ishtar: probably just a terminology thing. not sure Win11 will let you install with an MBR these days
15:46:46 <LordAro> (see also BIOS vs UEFI)
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15:48:38 <goddess_ishtar> squirejames: yeah partition tables getting yeeted suck
15:49:07 <goddess_ishtar> I've had to rescue my system a few times, it's stressful as hell, but I haven't lost any data yet
15:49:29 <LordAro> well now you've done it
15:49:59 <squirejames> (MBR I mean, Main Boot Record. Again might be old and obsolete terminology as Aro says)
15:49:59 <squirejames> And yeah it sucketh but, better than my nVME actually dying, given as it is the newest part of my PC
15:50:22 <squirejames> reinstalling windows is not a huge deal. Having to buy and fit a whole new nVME *and then* reinstall windows is urk
15:51:13 <LordAro> that is one of the (admittedly very few) downsides to flash storage
15:51:14 <squirejames> LordAro: Thanks for humouring my clumsiness anyway 🙂 and thanks for mentioning this. This was my next question 🙂
15:51:34 <LordAro> HDDs tend to degrade gradually. SSDs & friends tend to go pop
15:52:02 <squirejames> Ah, no warning that its going? Just poof, everything gone. Yeah it's why i've been careful to note any weirdness with my computer. Its why I got the nVME in the first place. My SSD was being a bit weird so I worried it was going
15:52:21 <LordAro> the fact that it still appeared but appeared blank is unusual though
15:52:24 <LordAro> (assuming that's the case)
15:52:25 <squirejames> Turns out it wasn't, just bad windows updates. But, it now serves as a handy 500gb drive for games
15:53:33 <squirejames> LordAro: Well, see, what was happening was...
15:53:33 <squirejames> Moved house. Initial boot was fine. Then it started going slower and slower and couldn't open directories. So I restarted. Happened a few times. Restarted each time. Then it started randomly bluescreening. So, restarted again. THen it went "oh lolz you have no drive"
15:54:40 <goddess_ishtar> squirejames: yeah that's an outdated term, newer systems use GUID Partition Table format as part of UEFI
15:54:46 <squirejames> I took the nVME out, put it back in, juuust incase something had jiggled loose in the move. Went to do a repair, nope windows finds no install there.
15:56:14 <squirejames> Ahhh okees, i'll remember that 🙂 but yeah it seems as if the drive didn't corrupt or actually lose anything, just the table (I had that happen way back on a HDD in ooh 2003? and I managed to repair the MBR and not lose anything. That was a major brown trouser moment. Its what led to my current system actually, always making sure my files were on a different physical drive
15:56:44 <squirejames> Anyways new clean install and actually my PC works better now so thats good
15:56:54 <__abigail> squirejames: If you have (had) a Samsung SSD they have a bad firmware version that needs to be updated before they brick themselves. Happened to me
15:57:16 <squirejames> I thiiiiiink my SSD is a Crucial? I'll check
15:57:30 <__abigail> Yeah nah you just got fucked then
15:57:30 <squirejames> but if it bricks now it just takes my steam library so eh
15:57:44 <goddess_ishtar> I have a WD Black 2TiB NVMe
15:57:50 <squirejames> the NVME was also a crucial but as I said works fine, just had a fit when my PC got moved 200 miles 😄
15:57:57 <goddess_ishtar> it's... it's okay, I guess
15:58:19 <goddess_ishtar> it's a storage disk, it stores data, what more could you want
15:58:48 <goddess_ishtar> I never really notice load times
15:59:04 <squirejames> I did notice a HUGE improvement from HDD to SSD for my main boot
15:59:17 <squirejames> But yeah, SSD to nVME wasn't anywhere near as big a jump
15:59:24 <goddess_ishtar> oh, yeah, spinning rust is very slow these days
15:59:38 <goddess_ishtar> but yeah I don't understand the push to use NVMe
15:59:45 <goddess_ishtar> SATA disks work fine
15:59:51 <squirejames> I still have a HDD, Toshiba ooh, 2tb I think,
16:00:10 <goddess_ishtar> peter1138: is it notably faster for common workloads, though
16:00:14 <peter1138> Not many SATA SSDs made any more.
16:00:28 <peter1138> Given the size of Windows bloat, probably :)
16:00:36 <goddess_ishtar> windows moment
16:00:41 <squirejames> but its for storage only. My games are on my SSD (formerly my boot) and I have an nVME. SSD is 500gb, nVME is 1tb
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16:27:06 <xarick> maybe this, to make it "fairer"
16:27:48 <xarick> train survives, but breakdowns on crash
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16:39:22 <goddess_ishtar> goddess_ishtar: since we also still want the player to easily create new containers, and probably do some basic config stuff like setting their display colour, the only real way I see to implement this is breaking the assumption in the code that a GRF object necessarily corresponds with a .grf file somewhere to be loaded
16:41:41 <goddess_ishtar> (I mean. the game could make dummy .grf files for headers. but that's a clumsy bodge)
16:42:13 <goddess_ishtar> which I think would require pretty much all of the GRF loading code to be refactored to allow that, and I'm still not sure how to represent the GRF relationships in the filesystem
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16:54:59 <jfkuayue> Is QLC SSD reliable?
16:54:59 <jfkuayue> There are already PLC’s…
17:05:29 <dwfreed> depends on what your usage pattern is
17:05:52 <dwfreed> QLC is becoming more common in enterprise for low write percentage workloads
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18:05:53 <rito12_51026> xarick: That would allow people to destroy expensive train by crashing cheap vehicle into it, wouldn't it?
18:12:24 <xarick> I was looking into making the breakdown last for as long as the road vehicle exist in a crashed condition, but 255 is the max delay :(
18:22:38 <dwfreed> so if you keep crashing a vehicle into the train, you can keep making it breakdown
18:30:13 <xarick> there used to be a bug with road vehicles crashing head on into trains on purpose, but that was fixed
18:30:25 <xarick> but I can still safeguard this
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19:54:01 <andythenorth> when I sell my old MBP, what will do for infra?
19:59:48 <peter1138> Will you be able to afford a replacement, given the AI price gouging?
20:00:34 <andythenorth> well our infra is running on the spare old one I think
20:00:43 <andythenorth> it's not running on this one
20:00:58 <andythenorth> an M4 would be serious overkill for our infra, and just smacks of hobbyist overkill
20:23:14 <xarick> there's something strange with collision sizes
20:24:34 <xarick> at about 42 second mark
20:25:22 <xarick> why is the bus advancing
20:26:13 <xarick> I thought I had fixed this
21:04:31 <Rubidium> xarick, I've got better things that watching your slop...
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21:06:02 <andythenorth> shall we do OpenTTD 26?
21:17:38 <jfkuayue> - search "railway" on discord server search
21:17:38 <jfkuayue> - all results are roblox, the only non-roblox one is some IT stuff
21:23:29 <xarick> tested all the way back to 12.2, it's the same behaviour
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21:52:12 <ryandtw> xarick: what version is this
21:52:33 <xarick> none, I'm experimenting with it
21:54:25 <ryandtw> trains immediately break down upon road vehicle collision?
21:54:33 <ryandtw> I think JGRPP has that
21:55:40 <xarick> oh, i had no idea, let me see
22:01:01 <xarick> let me see how it's done there
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22:49:29 <xarick> how receptive is this idea on jgrpp?
22:49:43 <xarick> are ppl bothered with it?
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23:04:52 <kaibaneddy> Rubidium: One reason to be on discord is it has an ignore feature 🙄
23:10:45 <jfkuayue> I can finally use the :sncfno: everywhere...
23:12:49 <reldred> kaibaneddy: I mean so does IRC but I don’t know how it behaves with the discord bridge
23:36:48 <mmtunligit> reldred: probably about the same as discord ignore works with the bridge here if id have to guess
23:43:43 <reldred> There probably also needs to be some sort of allignment between moderation on the two platforms, mods and opers on IRC have repeatedly told Xarick to stop spamming the crap out of this channel.
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23:51:12 <squirejames> mmtunligit: I know that as a discord user you cannot block, mute or do anything toward IRC bridge peeps
23:51:47 <mmtunligit> yeah that was what i was getting it
23:51:56 <mmtunligit> it just ignores the bridge itself
23:52:18 <mmtunligit> i deal with other similar services in other servers and as such are very familiar with the drawbacks of these things
23:52:34 <squirejames> Ah I see "It works the same" i.e not at all 😄
23:52:53 <goddess_ishtar> mmtunligit: Tupperbox and Pluralkit?
23:53:09 <mmtunligit> goddess_ishtar: dunno what the first one is but yeah
23:53:20 <goddess_ishtar> it's an older simpler bot
23:53:38 <goddess_ishtar> I prefer it, Pluralkit is too complex for me
23:54:13 <mmtunligit> all my friends use pk so ive gotten used to it
23:58:03 <goddess_ishtar> most plurality communities I've seen have both, but the ones which aren't focused around it tend to just have pluralkit
23:59:05 <goddess_ishtar> if anything, I mean
continue to next day ⏵
