IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-10-28
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02:36:06 <wangli> Hi, I have set "server_admin_port = 3977", "admin_password = 123456" in openttd.cfg, but way does the server start without 3977 listening?
02:38:24 <wangli> admin_password = "123456" also be set in private.cfg
02:44:52 <wangli> Seems the password set failed
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04:38:57 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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05:13:03 <reldred> rito12_51026: well, ofcourse, but I'll take whatever I can get ๐
05:15:58 <rito12_51026> Hmm, but curved tunnels are really tempting, aren't they?
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05:18:05 <kaji_kaede> Would love a curved tunnel.
05:25:55 <reldred> Iโd love something like this for a curved bridge in OTTD
05:26:29 <reldred> You can do this with custombridgeheads in JGRPP but a similar trick with bridges would be nice
05:28:52 <rito12_51026> reldred: How useful would that be for rail bridges?
05:29:05 <rito12_51026> Btw I was recently wandering about rails bettwen tiles
05:29:56 <reldred> Rails probably not terribly, since you want corners to be wider and in jgrpp you can use custombridgeheads to get what you want
05:30:07 <reldred> But for roads it'd be useful
05:31:03 <rito12_51026> And also elevated stations like bridges
05:32:59 <reldred> Oh yeah, elevated stations would make a lot of people very happy. Anyways, given you want corners to be wider with rails you can just do this in jgrpp
05:33:41 <reldred> though it would be nice to have that be a bit tidier
05:35:35 <rito12_51026> reldred: Would๏ปฟ't cl
05:36:50 <rito12_51026> Sorry, pressed wrong button
05:36:59 <reldred> well in my first example photo yeah it would end up a bit like how custombridgeheads works
05:37:10 <reldred> just one bridgehead and another merge on the same tile
05:39:24 <reldred> But it atleast doesn't require any new UI to make it happen
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05:39:47 <emperorjake> Yes I've often wished for 2 bridgeheads on the same tile
05:41:59 <reldred> I wish for a lot of things in TTD ๐
05:42:31 <alfagamma7> I still wait for the day when I would be able to build station at / \ tiles
05:43:36 <reldred> I don't care about diagonal stations or anything like that, cities and roads are mostly grids anyway, or even diagonal bridges, but a few tricks to play with verticality some more so we can squeeze more into the space we have would be nice.
05:43:43 <alfagamma7> and diagonal roads
05:43:54 <reldred> now diagonal roads, they are very much a possibility
05:44:06 <reldred> I've done some prototyping there already
05:44:21 <reldred> just the articulated vehicle movement breaks and crashes the game to desktop
05:44:56 <alfagamma7> Guess that will require another rewriting of the game
05:45:09 <alfagamma7> ..... aka make another game
05:45:26 <emperorjake> reldred: Didn't kaji_kaede manage fix that? at least partially? or am I dreaming
05:45:37 <reldred> emperorjake: No idea, haven't looked at it since
05:46:05 <kaji_kaede> My solution was kinda shitty on the tidiness front, but it worked.
05:46:25 <reldred> well did you update the pr or raise your own? otherwise it's gonna get lost in the ether if it's just sitting on your own HD
05:46:32 <rito12_51026> emperorjake: michi_cc made rails of two owners and diffrent rail types by placing to rail tiles at the same tile index so, making the same for bridgeheads would allow for bridgesheads of diffrent owners at the same tile, but diffrent roadtypes could be problematic.
05:46:48 <kaji_kaede> I didn't touch the PR directly, don't think I've got the powers to. I commented on the PR, though.
05:47:20 <reldred> it's just a branch in my fork of jgrpp
05:48:46 <reldred> rito12_51026: well like rail or road intersections they shouldn't allow different owners/roadtypes
05:53:31 <rito12_51026> So a bridge without an own bridgehead, that uses other's head instead?
05:55:53 <kuhnovic> Oops, pressed the wrong button. Not quite awake yet.
05:58:04 <reldred> rito12_51026: Two bridges sharing one. So three bridge heads total, two lengths of bridge.
05:59:24 <alfagamma7> double bridges would be nice
05:59:34 <alfagamma7> a rail bridge under a road bridge
06:00:18 <emperorjake> I think someone was working on stackable bridges as well, but they haven't updated in ages
06:01:24 <reldred> Bridges crossing bridges and stacking yeah
06:02:45 <reldred> Not even on the discord anymore :โ(
06:20:07 <vondpc> multi-track bridges would also be neat
06:21:09 <alfagamma7> it sort of is there
06:21:22 <alfagamma7> use that Auz Set Bridges thing
06:22:59 <vondpc> but nto sure hwo that's going to pan out with my other grfs ๐
06:24:29 <alfagamma7> I intend to anyway
06:25:31 <vondpc> uhm those don't do multitrack rail bridges from what i'm seeing on the forum post
06:42:27 <emperorjake> alfagamma7: Surely you mean JP+ Bridges ๐
06:42:54 <emperorjake> Or maybe the modular wider bridges set
06:43:57 <emperorjake> vondpc: If you're using JGRPP, then modular wider bridges or JP+ Bridges extension can use the 3 extra IDs without overwriting your existing bridge set
07:42:41 <alfagamma7> Should become a Luddite methinks
07:48:21 <reldred> that's a big dragline but isn't the bucket backwards?
07:48:42 <reldred> big hole have some bloody big draglines
07:53:53 <alfagamma7> Looks rather unrealistic
07:54:15 <alfagamma7> Also, is that a shunter?
07:54:34 <alfagamma7> South Africa perhaps?
07:55:57 <andythenorth> stripping shovel
07:56:20 <andythenorth> the engine is an Alco ish thing
07:59:26 <reldred> ah yeah, stripping shovel works differently
08:00:01 <alfagamma7> It looked like the States
08:00:17 <alfagamma7> but I thought maybe it was Cape Gauge
08:04:16 <acs121> reldred: I don't know how relevant a fare system would be
08:04:53 <acs121> But it'd be interesting for many players I suppose
08:05:43 <alfagamma7> Too much micromanaging
08:05:51 <alfagamma7> But yeah sounds good
08:21:09 <acs121> alfagamma7: You could just disable it, if you wanted
08:24:24 <reldred> fares make very little sense in ottd, as unlike RCT or transport fever the cargo isn't physical and can't decide to just not use your service and use a cheaper option
08:26:58 <alfagamma7> We already have variable cargo payment rates
08:27:24 <alfagamma7> based on time taken to transport it and distance
08:27:44 <alfagamma7> I don't think OTTD will need a fare system
08:34:44 <reldred> interesting, be curious to see whether felix makes something of push pull
08:35:38 <LordAro> wangli: looks like OTTD only starts listening if the admin port is correctly configured, which apparently includes the password being set (i think you might have unset it in your second image? not sure), and with at least one admin_authorized_keys set
08:42:53 <andythenorth> 21 industries left to de-animate ๐
09:47:44 <peter1138> I levelled an entire 4096x4096 map up from level 1 to level 15.
09:48:04 <peter1138> No tunnels were harmed in this experiment.
09:49:11 <peter1138> Adding an optimisation for lowering tiles seems a bit moot.
09:56:34 <andythenorth> identify clever uncommon edge cases
09:56:38 <andythenorth> optimise to handle them
09:57:01 <andythenorth> meanwhile FIRS is animating tiles pointlessly every tick ๐
09:57:58 <peter1138> Be interesting to see if it makes any difference... :p
09:58:19 <peter1138> (I aborted that, 15 minutes so far)
09:58:27 <andythenorth> 13 industries left to fix
09:59:41 <peter1138> Things like Renewed Village Growth also blow up if there are a lot of towns.
10:00:22 <andythenorth> in our fork, can we reduce the max map size?
10:02:50 <peter1138> Fresh 4kx4k FIRS 5 Steel Town, 149625 animated tiles.
10:03:52 <peter1138> Alright, it drops by around 4000 tiles after unpausing.
10:06:01 <andythenorth> [unless you built your own]
10:11:24 <peter1138> 33092 animated tiles on start. Hmm.
10:13:13 <reldred> I'm still playing maps around 2k max length, but I tend to cap towns at anywhere from 75-125 depending on the final map size
10:13:40 <reldred> 1k x 2k is about the largest I can stomach
10:15:12 <peter1138> World ticks: 16ms/tick before, 10ms/tick after.
10:15:25 <andythenorth> is FIRS the only difference?
10:17:07 <peter1138> Rendering ticks: 7ms/tick before, 4ms/tick after.
10:17:43 <peter1138> Yes, this is an artificial test, only FIRS, fresh world, nothing else going on
10:18:33 <andythenorth> my very non-scientific assessment was that FIRS dumps FPS by about 50%, compared to vanilla
10:18:50 <peter1138> It's still going to be slower because it's doing more.
10:18:55 <peter1138> But now it's doing less more.
10:19:25 <peter1138> For every animated tile in the list, it needs to check if it needs to be animated this tick.
10:19:33 <peter1138> So even if it's not, there's a cost.
10:19:54 <xarick> oh no Kuhnovic sabotaged the PR
10:19:57 <peter1138> JGRPP optimises that further by caching the animation speed.
10:20:32 <peter1138> xarick, you can just force push over it.
10:21:27 <kuhnovic> I was barely awake and tried to expand the conversation in the github app on my phone. That didn't go so well.
10:21:57 <andythenorth> ok so I didn't run out of tile IDs...yet
10:22:01 <xarick> I don't think it matters, unlikely to go through
10:22:22 <kuhnovic> True, it was closed, and for good reason
10:24:30 <xarick> if there's ever any use case, it's due to maps being already mountainous
10:27:06 <kuhnovic> Oh I thought you closed it Peter. Apparently I'm still not awake.
10:27:13 <peter1138> James103 gave it a thumbs down though, that's as good as ;)
10:30:21 <andythenorth> 8 industries to fix ๐
10:34:20 <xarick> i need a very compeling use case for it to be considered, hmm ๐
10:34:45 <xarick> i believe there isn't, really....
10:35:40 <xarick> nobody really plays alpinist 4k maps
10:35:51 <kuhnovic> xarick: I know reading and answering to what's being said here isn't really how you roll. But you've had plenty of indications that what you were doing was pointless. You are of course free to spend your time on it and try to learn something, but you shouldn't be surprised that your PR is turned down.
10:37:34 <kuhnovic> If you can come up with a real life scenario that is reasonable and shows bad performance, sure, we might want to take another look. But lowering a 4K and expecting it to happen in a split second is not reasonable.
10:39:13 <peter1138> People do play large maps, but it's actually not possible to terraform very much and hit this performance issue unless you've messed around with the terraforming limits.
10:39:43 <peter1138> (Scenario editor excepted)
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10:48:51 <jalmaan> orudge: Hmmm interesting. I have been wanting to get OpenRCT2 released on Steam, but we cannot yet until Chris Sawyer is happy with it (there were some things he didn't like, like how accessible cheats are), but how we need to fix these issues is only guessing atm.
10:48:51 <jalmaan> Are you in contact with Ethan?
10:49:37 <jalmaan> We want to release as a steam mod
10:57:01 <wangli> LordAro: Password was in secrets, but still blank when I check it in console , I solve this problem by set admin password in console
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12:55:28 <_glx_> Wrong syntax/format when manually set in cfg?
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13:07:20 <andythenorth> peter1138: no suitable emoji found
13:56:46 <andythenorth> is 64 a good limit for cargos? ๐
13:58:18 <peter1138> I probably have a patch for that.
14:01:54 <peter1138> Then GRM for cargoes will be unbroken again.
14:02:54 <peter1138> 63 but you can only use 12 at a time?
15:08:54 <xarick> I'm experimenting a minor tweak on rivergen: cap bfs queue at 10000 items
15:09:19 <xarick> seems to only matter for the 1% Sea cases
15:09:27 <xarick> but those are already fast ๐
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15:21:57 <xarick> testing the auto loan feature:
15:26:57 <rito12_51026> It is automatically handled once per month
15:29:12 <_zephyris> I think the feedback is that "automatic loan" implies it will automatically borrow money if needed.
15:31:05 <_glx_> yeah that would be my expectation too
15:31:34 <_glx_> repaying once a month, but borrow when needed
16:05:00 <peter1138> Is it not closed yet?
16:09:28 <Borg> im fighting hard w/ YAPF :) trying to implement PBS entry signal cheaply
16:10:59 <Borg> after awfull hackery around PfCalcCost() I understand I cant grab entry signal there at all, because I will get next signal really
16:11:09 <Borg> I finaly found a good place to hook
16:12:14 <Borg> check for IsPbsSignal() right in ChooseTrainTrack()
16:12:30 <Borg> the question is.. where is safely to clear the info?
16:12:58 <Borg> right now im clearing it right in start of TrainController()
16:29:41 <Borg> okey TrainLocoHandler might be even better
16:39:20 <Borg> okey I leave that like this :) works.. will have no play some game to test more
17:26:08 <kuhnovic> Borg: Scandinavian detected!
17:34:18 <Borg> im not.. dont judge over my nickname ;)
17:44:09 <vondpc> crates.io mentioned ๐
17:46:04 <LordAro> peter1138: my sister was bitten by a moรธse once...
17:50:00 <kuhnovic> Satan is a very common swearword in the Scandinavian countries. But I was wrong haha
17:51:20 <Borg> anyway.. im swearing here indeed
17:51:31 <Borg> trying to figure how to draw a simple line in main openttd viewport
18:20:00 <andythenorth> like the cargoflow overlay?
18:33:13 <Borg> I did look at linkgraph_gui.cpp
18:33:32 <Borg> looks complicated. I noticed its being initialized in MainWindow where there is overlay member
18:33:52 <Borg> I tought I could cheat like.. SwitchToMainView() ;) and draw..
18:35:27 <mmtunligit> borg, you might also check whatever JGRPP does for plans
18:35:44 <mmtunligit> or for route visualization
18:38:42 <Borg> I want to have simple line between signals.. for Route Restrictions..
18:41:17 <Borg> okey, so far so good.. my check PBS entry signal works ;]
18:41:22 <Borg> ugly hack.. but cheap :D
19:00:46 <Borg> mmtunligit: hmmm it directly hooked into viewport.cpp, adding ViewportDrawPlans()
19:06:12 <Borg> probably will have to do the same then..
19:06:21 <Borg> luicky.. OpenTTD is single threaded
19:06:39 <peter1138> Turns out if you want to add something that doesn't already exist, you need to add code somewhere.
19:26:20 <Borg> peter1138: yeah.. but I tought you can access main View more "easly" seems not
20:18:40 <Borg> holy moly.. that routing restrictions kicks ass
20:33:37 <Borg> where I can find sprite recoloring? I mean. whatever for company colors
20:34:01 <Borg> any idea popped in here.. to recolor Signal posts to blue via recoloring
20:34:23 <Borg> I assume all posts (most?) have same post colors of gray
20:34:32 <Borg> should be easy to transform then to blue
20:42:03 <Borg> okey it wont be that easy [;
20:43:02 <peter1138> Recolours map specific colour indices to another colour.
20:43:21 <peter1138> The company colour ones use a specific range of blue.
20:43:37 <peter1138> To recolour signal sprites, they'd need to use that range of blue as well.
20:43:58 <_jgr_> Signal post recolouring is implemented already, or signal GRFs can draw/colour them however they want
20:45:31 <Borg> _jgr_: yeah, looking at your code..
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22:19:52 <xarick> So there is a Valuate - it crashes the script with too much cpu usage. I circumvent the crashing by using a customised squirrel machine based "Slow Valuate" instead of OpenTTD's.
22:19:52 <xarick> "Slow Valuate" runs a "foreach item in list" and assigns the result from the valuator function via ScriptList::_set metamethod. However, boolean results requires conversion with a ".tointeger()". This is the part that costs opcodes. If the _set metamethod could take the bool result and automatically transform it to an integer, then opcodes won't be consumed, making the "Slow Valuate" more quick.
22:19:52 <xarick> The objective is overall, not crash the script when using large lists but still aim to make through the lists with the least min opcodes as possible.
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22:25:36 <xarick> quantifying "rather expensive" would require comparing my "Slow Valuate" with the ".tointeger()" with another "Slow Valuate" with the PR.
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23:01:35 <zanooda2000> Rito13viaGitHub: Seems like additional step in simpliest thing is unavoidable?
23:04:13 <zanooda2000> Even for vanilla 4 types of rails you still need to use another window, and even more you can't quickly check rail stats? Oh, how convinient, you got clear view and 4 extra actions to do. Apple-style interface is sooooo cool.
23:13:53 <zanooda2000> Rito13viaGitHub: Hmm, for some reason at android touchscreen preview this feature works absolutely differently than at pc, it cannot show the regular dropdown list and alway show menu. Could it be android-based preview bug or something on side of this commit?
23:16:07 <rito12_51026> Dropdown only shows if the old toolbar behavior is turned on
23:18:50 <rito12_51026> Works fine on my android
23:30:03 <zanooda2000> oh, forgot that is a thing and it is forced for everyone
23:31:26 <zanooda2000> I think players will be... "very happy" to see this feature in a "non-disableable" form, because they need to disable a completely different, completely unrelated feature about the dropdown list.
23:33:34 <peter1138> No need to speak in tongues.
23:35:08 <peter1138> If you have feedback, put it in the PR comments, and do it straight so nobody is guessing what things mean.
23:36:45 <zanooda2000> Where exactly should this be sent? The commits about the dropdown list (which is actually a button behavior) have long been closed, and the decision to make it the default has long been made.
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23:47:51 <peter1138> So wait a second, you're not talking about #14717, you're just complaining about a change in a behaviour that is backed by a setting that allows original behaviour?
23:54:55 <zanooda2000> peter1138: Not so. I'm complaining about it being "forced" to everyone by default, not only for new openttd.cfg's
23:54:55 <zanooda2000> And in second place, which has a rather obscure name. The setting affects the dropdown list more than the menu buttons, but it's called "traditional button something something," making it much harder to find (and toggle).
23:54:55 <zanooda2000> Also with the addition of the tracktypes menu, a very unfortunate collision occurred: when the "traditional buttons" is disabled (which is now by default), the tracks dropdown list no longer appears at all. Okey, now it seems like a bug on railtypes menu side.
23:55:26 <_glx_> it's a new setting, so of course everyone gets the default value
continue to next day โต
