IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-08-21
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04:40:52 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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08:13:31 <peter1138> Someone told me of a NewGRF which has quite tall docks, but I dismissed it, and also forgot what it was. Any reminder? :D
08:21:13 <emperorjake> The crane in CHIPS style docks?
08:43:40 <reldred> Probably not worth worrying about til we get something like NewDocks. You can only really code a feature around the default state of the game not around whatever random sprite replaced someone’s loaded. But with a newdocks feature it would be neat to define the height like with stations.
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09:12:23 <locosage> btw, every new player is supposed to know pathfinder internals as breakdowns are enabled by default and depot placement for servicing is limited by pf penalty 😜
09:14:03 <locosage> so it's impossible to tell where you can place depots without knowing how penalty is calculated
09:17:15 <locosage> quick quiz for new players - which of these depots can be used for servicing? 🤣
09:33:45 <locosage> there are probably more people in this chat who can tweak pf settings safely than who know how to place a depot right 🤭
09:36:25 <reldred> I'm gonna be honest with you dP I generally have no idea what on earth you're rabbiting on about most of the time
09:37:05 <locosage> well, do you know the answer for my simple gameplay question? ;p
09:38:05 <reldred> I play JGRPP, I build depots completely differently.
09:38:54 <reldred> that said even when I do play vanilla I've never really run into any mystical special way to build depots
09:39:46 <locosage> there are workarounds for breakdown issues
09:40:04 <locosage> but the typical logical solution is to build off-line depot
09:40:14 <locosage> which doesn't work if you place it "too far"
09:40:34 <locosage> but how far exactly - no one knows
09:41:54 <locosage> that's my point, you're arguing about pf settings that casue issues once in eternity but ignore the glaring issues that come up daily and yet require even more intricate pf knowledge
09:43:23 <reldred> glaring issue that until this evening, I've never even heard of
09:43:57 <locosage> I didn't even have to make a picture, just copied it from MH channel
09:45:08 <locosage> had been brought up countless times
09:51:56 <_jgr_> Elaborate workarounds for the silly default breakdown and depot search behaviour seems too much like masochism for me
09:52:34 <_jgr_> You can just turn breakdowns off or use depot orders and all these problems go away
09:52:39 <reldred> add servicing orders, done.
09:52:59 <reldred> probably why I've not had a single train lost issue in years and years
10:07:39 <locosage> locosage: anyway, the answer is the first one as it has the penalty of 1942
10:07:58 <locosage> and I spent like half an hour debugging yapf and still couldn't figure out why
10:09:40 <locosage> it counts 15 straight tiles and two corners yet somehow still ends up with 300 more
10:23:28 <talltyler> Teaching players to use depot orders seems like the best solution. I opened a PR to prompt players about this, happy to reopen it if anyone actually wants it.
10:42:45 <kuhnovic> locosage: If you look at the pfCalcCost function of yapf_rail you'll see that about a million things influence the total cost. Elevation, pbs reservations, signals, etc etc. But I bet you took that all into account when you placed your depots.
10:43:01 <locosage> yeah, all zeros afaict
10:43:44 <kuhnovic> Your issue is that it's unclear what the search range for a depot is. Fair point, but that's hardly the pathfinder's fault.
10:44:39 <locosage> no one said it's pf fault, it's ux issue
10:46:13 <kuhnovic> Maybe the depot search should purely be range based. That would at least make it easier to explain and visualize.
10:50:55 <locosage> yeah, if it was always like 20 tiles it would at least be possible to explain
10:51:04 <locosage> still not really clear for new players though
10:52:27 <locosage> also, doesn't help that trains check daily so can skip some tiles
10:52:41 <locosage> and they start at the end of reservation
10:53:00 <locosage> so if already reserved past the junction it will skip depot
10:53:44 <locosage> but, at least, those cases aren't that often
10:54:23 <locosage> speed is mostly the issue for maglev and vactube
10:55:12 <locosage> and having no signals before junction is bad mojo anyway
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12:44:31 <FLHerne> my feeling is that the proper solution to the occupied tile and station penalties is to make them not per-tile penalties
12:45:56 <FLHerne> certainly for occupied-tile - a long train in front is rarely any more of an obstruction than a short one, and certainly never 10x the cost or more
12:46:49 <FLHerne> which makes it impossible to pick a per-tile value that balances correctly against the others for all lengths of train (the current defaults fail badly for very short trains)
12:48:18 <FLHerne> peter1138: it was me who told you about the CHIPS crane dock, you should ignore it :p
12:48:41 <FLHerne> "but it looks ugly when I build a bridge through a crane" "so don't build a bridge through a crane"
12:49:27 <FLHerne> I would still like a setting to disregard the height checks entirely and leave it up to the player
12:49:42 <FLHerne> (but I know there are too many settings)
12:49:45 <andythenorth> FWIW I’ve never seen the pathfinder do anything comfusing or unexpected *except* related to depots (especially autoreplace)
12:50:07 <FLHerne> the one about refusing to go through station platforms bit me
12:50:08 <andythenorth> I don’t play fancy setups much
12:50:25 <FLHerne> so I'm one of the 2% or whatever with a different value for that
12:51:42 <FLHerne> the other setting I change is making yapf.rail_shorter_platform_penalty *really* high, so I can safely use different lengths of platforms for different trains
12:52:13 <FLHerne> and indeed use different lengths of platforms to route trains without adding waypoints
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14:49:05 <talltyler> Why is your Western all blurry?
14:50:03 <andythenorth> Dunno maybe discord or the ipad paste
15:43:16 <FLHerne> peter1138: awesome, love a pair of Maybachs
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17:56:28 <squirejames> talltyler: Clearly its so gorgeous it requires censoring 😄
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20:13:24 <peter1138> (Who the heck builds a line stretching out miles from the track with a depot on the end of it...?)
20:15:38 <peter1138> Yeah, bounding boxes.
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20:24:35 <yiffgirl> peter1138: you want to avoid the slowdown of going into the depot to affect the rest of the line, maybe?
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