IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-07-20
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08:01:28 <truebrain> How deep is the well?
08:02:24 <truebrain> I still can't believe we just run a database on GitHub, and that has been working better than the MySQL versions we had before that 😛
08:05:24 <truebrain> These days I would do it slightly different, and build either an SQLite or Flatbuffer via a GitHub Actions, and load that server-side. As, you won't believe it, it takes a few minutes to load in all this YAML 😛
08:05:28 <truebrain> and it is not getting faster 😄
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09:12:16 <peter1138[d]> Feel free to revamp 😉
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09:13:01 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, automatic colour-push/pop is doable, except that most strings still contain a colour code, so it's active all the time.
10:33:43 <pickpacket> orudge: I worry about that mail from atari. I don't like how they implied that they would have any rights over OpenTTD. A lawyer friend of mine thought it sounded like a fishing expedition. May I ask what you replied?
10:35:01 <peter1138[d]> It did not imply that, you are reading something else into it.
10:36:42 <_jgr_> pickpacket: Perhaps you'd be better off emailing him privately if you really want a response, I can't imagine that he'd want to broadcast whatever he might have replied here
10:36:42 <pickpacket> peter1138[d]: "while protecting our rights to the game"?
10:37:22 <michi_cc> the game = transport tycoon
10:37:59 <pickpacket> I've seen too many IP fights to feel comfortable with any corporation sending something like this
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10:39:36 <pickpacket> michi_cc: that's my first thought too, but in that case there's a misplaced modifier
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11:03:38 <dres_1025> Theoretically could a setting be made that would allow for locomotives to be placed anywhere in a train?
11:04:03 <peter1138[d]> They can be placed (almost) anywhere in a train. You just need one on the front as well.
11:04:23 <peter1138[d]> And no, it's way more involved than "a setting".
11:06:32 <andythenorth> armchair lawyering in a public channel can create confusion, best avoided
11:08:00 <andythenorth> peter1138[d]: instead of doing it properly, what if we just force a 1hp invisible engine to the front of every train, then net 1hp of the power value when reading it
11:08:06 <andythenorth> oh speed though 😐
11:08:34 <andythenorth> why is doing it properly always easier and better? 😛
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11:17:50 <peter1138[d]> Right, we have the cargo types key within the graph window.
11:17:57 <peter1138[d]> But the companys key is separate.
11:18:11 <peter1138[d]> There was a PR a while back that tried some complex things to split it all out and what not.
11:18:49 <peter1138[d]> I think I want to merge them together instead.
11:19:14 <peter1138[d]> And then have the highlight-on-hover functionality work for companies as well.
11:20:08 <peter1138[d]> "But the font is so small!" ... interface scaling, right?
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12:19:28 <digitalfox> Hello, good day for releasing the mighty beta 3? 🙂
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12:44:40 <emperorjake> pickpacket: Where can I find more information about this?
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13:49:38 <peter1138[d]> The "(Company X)" adds a bit.
13:53:10 <talltyler> Does the player ever need to know the company number?
14:02:07 <peter1138[d]> Probably not here, it's just what was shown in the existing legend window.
14:03:26 <peter1138[d]> > 3 files changed, 158 insertions(+), 122 deletions(-)
14:03:32 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, annoying amount 😮
14:05:05 <peter1138[d]> The mini-"blot" is a bit different too, I guess.
14:05:14 <peter1138[d]> The usual sprite won't fit, of course.
14:10:58 <peter1138[d]> Does this mean we have more companies now? :p
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14:15:26 <mnhebi> 100 company OpenTTD server when :d
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14:45:31 <_glx_> so regarding nuget cache for vcpkg, it seems the PRs are not able to store packages, but they should be able to retrieve them
14:46:56 <_glx_> after a lot of search there could be a way for PRs to store packages, but that requires a classic PAT (plain annoying to manage)
14:49:42 <_glx_> I think the simple way is to let post merge CI run store the cache (it has the correct permissions) and PRs will use it if available
15:12:54 <asasnat> I'm curious, when was the snow melt/grass growth pattern changed to not be so liney (like in the original game)?
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17:04:00 <peter1138[d]> I'm curious, what do you think has changed?
17:20:24 <xava> it seems that the main thread handles a mouse event immediately, and when refresh, processes mouse events the second time.
17:20:35 <xava> what is the second time for?
17:23:50 <xava> I mean, I can see that WndProcGdi(...) function handle mouse and keyboard inputs.
17:24:19 <xava> but, in VideoDriver::Tick(), InputLoop() is called again.
17:25:35 <xava> BTW, I'm new to OpenTTD source code.
17:26:55 <michi_cc> VideoDriver::InputLoop is for stuff not coming by OS events (e.g. on Windows stuff like keyboard modifier key state), ::InputLoop() is the generic, non-OS specific part of the handling.
17:27:59 <peter1138[d]> Overloaded naming then.
17:28:37 <LordAro> sounds like something that could be improved pretty easily :D
17:28:43 <LordAro> (the naming, that is)
17:30:36 <xava> oh. what kind of mouse inputs is handled by ::InputLoop()?
17:31:11 <xava> Is OS mouse events handling not enough?
17:34:28 <xava> so there are three of them? WndProcGdi, VideoDriver::InputLoop, and ::InputLoop()?
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17:55:55 <pickpacket> peter1138[d]: are you working on extending the colour palette for company liveries?
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18:01:59 <_glx_> no, the palette is full 🙂
18:23:45 <Rubidium> looks like PC_NONE already got defined in some Windows SDK header
18:24:40 <Rubidium> maybe use PixelColour{} instead of PC_NONE?
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20:45:11 <andythenorth> might be a nice size
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21:15:04 <ahyangyi> 384x384 maps, with the middle 128x128 inaccessible 😛
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21:22:39 <peter1138[d]> We did have that 'discussion' a week or so ago.
21:23:48 <talltyler> Regions in what sense?
21:24:07 <peter1138[d]> Fog-of-war type.
21:24:29 <peter1138[d]> And 'week' was a joke 🙂
21:24:42 <talltyler> I find it funny that Transport Fever 3 is pushing hard for "so much map variety" but still has TTD climates. New with this release is sub-artic.
21:24:54 <talltyler> Maybe in Transport Fever 4 we'll finally get Toyland.
21:40:32 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, can I tell clangd to pretend that stdafx.h is included...
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22:01:42 <peter1138[d]> Okay, can someone explain how a 32bpp LUT system should look, replacing the current palette recolour maps, and what it would achieve?
22:03:24 <peter1138[d]> IIRC the main issue is that, for artists, the current system 32bpp + 8bpp mask is difficult to work with, and doesn't support blending at the edges.
22:03:41 <peter1138[d]> But also: most artists are just drawing 8bpp anyway.
22:04:18 <talltyler> Ugh, managed to get house overbuilding working for >1-tile buildings, now it crashes for 1-tile buildings 😛
22:04:49 <talltyler> Probably need to clear the northern tile of multi-tile buildings...
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22:05:42 <peter1138[d]> If you clear it through the command system (but with Do, not Post) it should do the right thing?
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22:09:35 <talltyler> Maybe. I might just be overcomplicating things.
22:10:10 <talltyler> I'm skipping a lot of "is this a safe place to build a house" checks that maybe I should leave alone.
22:11:57 <talltyler> Maybe I can just skip `DoCommand::Auto` if we're overbuilding...
22:12:10 <xava> Guys, I commented out the "::InputLoop()" line in VideoDriver::Tick(), and nothing happened.
22:14:03 <xava> So. What does that line do?
22:16:51 <_jgr_> There is more than one of those in VideoDriver::Tick(), which one is executed depends on whether a separate thread os used to run the game state
22:17:50 <_jgr_> I'm presuming that you commented out the first one, in which case it is not unexpected that you don't see anything different
22:18:03 <_jgr_> You can ready the definition of that function to see what it does
22:20:31 <xava> I comment out the line in VideoDriver::Tick() in video_driver.cpp.
22:20:38 <peter1138[d]> I think HandleMouseEvents() is actually the problem xava is talking about.
22:20:59 <peter1138[d]> ::InputLoop() itself actually does other stuff that won't be immediately visible.
22:21:04 <_glx_> in most case I think the call in ::Tick() will just take care of hovering
22:21:10 <peter1138[d]> But that other stuff isn't really anything to do with an InputLoop.
22:21:37 <_glx_> all other events are handled internally in driver
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22:21:50 <peter1138[d]> ::InputLoop calls HandleMouseEvents, but the drivers also call HandleMouseEvents anyway.
22:21:54 <xava> and "::InputLoop();" line which commented out is not the dedicated server one, but the latter one in Tick();
22:22:12 <peter1138[d]> Maybe there's a case where some are not handled immediately. I haven't looked.
22:22:46 <_glx_> for me it's just hovering, when there's no click nor mouse moves
22:23:08 <_glx_> so no calls from OS driver
22:24:24 <peter1138[d]> The other bits in InputLoop() that are actually related to window management could just be called from UpdateWindows(), I think?
22:26:52 <xava> Ohhhh, right, hovering. hovering wrongly worked after I commented that line.
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22:36:01 <talltyler> Oh, fun fact, `TileArea ta = tile;` doesn't add `tile` to the TileArea. That's stupid.
22:38:21 <_glx_> actually it does, but since it has no width/height it's empty 🙂
22:38:42 <talltyler> So is there a better way than to immediately do `ta.Add(tile);` ?
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23:05:17 <talltyler> On/off buttons with labels (four buttons total), or big toggle buttons containing the label? (two buttons total)
23:05:47 <talltyler> On/Off buttons or big toggle buttons containing the title strings instead?
23:08:56 <talltyler> (toggle button example, `Medium` and `Better roads` selected)
23:09:34 <peter1138[d]> The "Off" and "On" buttons came via the "Coverage area highlight" way, I suppose.
23:09:59 <talltyler> Do you have a preference?
23:11:26 <talltyler> Looking at these two windows beside each other makes me itch, with inconsistent label colours and colon use 😬
23:11:48 <peter1138[d]> Yes, the town gen window is a bit odd 🙂
23:12:12 <talltyler> For coverage area highlight, I have considered deleting the buttons and always showing the highlight 🙂
23:12:36 <talltyler> OK, so I'm consistant with that 😄
23:12:46 <peter1138[d]> So with the options here, this has both labels AND toggles
23:13:28 <peter1138[d]> Is "Overbuild existing" self-explanitory?
23:13:57 <talltyler> I think I'll do a toggle, and then open a PR to always show the coverage area highlight, to attract new pitchforks 🙂
23:14:10 <talltyler> There is a tooltip for it if you hover the buttons
23:14:18 <talltyler> (it = overbuild existing)
23:14:18 <peter1138[d]> These are another option that might not fit.
23:14:48 <peter1138[d]> (Stylistically fit, that is)
23:15:03 <talltyler> I do like those toggles, but they are only in menus, not toolbars
23:15:12 <talltyler> (arbitrary distinction, of course)
23:15:28 <peter1138[d]> I... don't think "menus" and "toolbars" the correct words here.
23:15:50 <talltyler> I wonder if toggle buttons that show state only through their state of depression (heh) is good design or something we should avoid 🤔
23:16:26 <talltyler> Wasn't that one of the reasons for the new sliding toggles?
23:18:04 <peter1138[d]> These toggles seem fine and unambiguous?
23:18:22 <talltyler> OK, let's do that, then.
23:18:30 <peter1138[d]> The thing with the toggles was that we had some that are red/green, and some that just stayed grey.
23:18:35 <peter1138[d]> So it was inconsistent.
23:18:53 <peter1138[d]> We made it consistent, but as we were already touching it, investigated changing the look too 🙂
23:19:13 <talltyler> Red/green is a colourblindness issue. If grey is hard to see, it's equally hard for everyone. 😛
23:19:23 <talltyler> (It's easy for me to see though)
23:19:25 <peter1138[d]> I think sticking with Off / On would be fine in this case, it matches the existing toggle.
23:19:40 <talltyler> ...but I want to change those other toggles too 😛
23:19:58 <talltyler> I just love scope creep
23:23:12 <peter1138[d]> Here's a bug that someone could fix.
23:23:50 <peter1138[d]> Clicking any of the buttons in the Signal Selection window does not produce the "bip" sound.
23:43:29 <talltyler> A bug I have not found, because I turn button sounds off 🙂
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