IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2025-05-14
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04:46:13 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
06:05:17 <andythenorth> I tended towards templates
06:05:50 <andythenorth> the 'build a single random from list' can be done enough in grf already
06:07:16 <andythenorth> improvement there would be some kind of UI magic to filter those in or out....like....a badge 😛
06:08:09 <andythenorth> the 'many randoms' would be better as a template
06:08:18 <andythenorth> can grf determine the sequence? 😛
06:19:47 <peter1138[d]> Random flipping could be removed, it's not exactly criticial.
06:20:49 <andythenorth> oh it has that inheritance edge case eh 🙂
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08:14:09 <xarick> new visual studio version!
08:14:36 <xarick> Claude 3.7 GitHub CoPilot stuff
08:27:10 <yiffgirl> can't wait for this fad to be over
08:44:24 <kuhnovic> Trust me, he needs it
08:44:48 <kuhnovic> But I do agree with you
08:58:28 <xarick> NewGRFs airports are simply unknown black boxes
08:58:59 <andythenorth> A funny thing about the LLM bubble is I don’t bother learning the tools
08:59:29 <andythenorth> I assume they’ll only be around for a few weeks until replaced by next hype infusion
08:59:55 <andythenorth> Literally weeks, fastest moving bubble I’ve seen in my career
09:00:13 <xarick> all an AI can do about NewGRF airports is test from a number of 0 to 255 if there's an id
09:00:25 <xarick> but then it has no idea what kind of airport it is
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09:06:25 <LordAro> xarick: luckily, given airports in general are kind of a black box, it's pretty easy to just hardcode these numbers
09:07:59 <peter1138[d]> IMHO, NewGRF airports are a half-implemented mess, and adding things to support them is, indeed, asking for trouble. Some of those calls might eventually be useful, but none of the details should be buried in the script API calls.
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09:54:00 <pickpacket> what makes them so different from other types of stations, NewGRF-wise?
09:59:49 <xarick> it's about what airport gets assigned to an ID over 10, it's usually a copy of one of the base types, but there's limited information an AI can get from those
10:02:07 <xarick> the AI would only know it's a helipad once it tries to send an aircraft to it
10:02:32 <xarick> wasting money, or plan time
10:08:47 <peter1138[d]> With composable airports then the airport needs to be built to have any of those things. But who knows if that'll exist.
10:15:04 <_zephyris> Are there any good specs for NewGRF airports? The wiki is pretty impenetrable...
10:35:34 <peter1138[d]> Yeah, some bad NewGRF interaction involved.
10:43:12 <andythenorth> how is it I bought a printer, but now have to pay-per-page on some stupid subscription plan
10:43:28 <andythenorth> I've nothing against subscriptions, but don't sell me an asset then charge again
10:43:29 <peter1138[d]> Because you signed up to the subscription plan.
10:43:38 <andythenorth> I can't understand if there's a way to not 😛
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10:44:13 <peter1138[d]> And if you unsubscribe, all the remaining ink can't be used.
10:44:25 <peter1138[d]> It's completely scammed.
10:44:30 <andythenorth> yeah they're sending me ominous sound emails about that
10:44:41 <andythenorth> but the card they have is expired
10:44:47 <andythenorth> maybe I should just wait and see 😛
10:45:26 <peter1138[d]> Probably coming soon to a washing machine and dishwasher near you...
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10:45:30 <aquila3129> that's cooked what the heck
10:50:08 <andythenorth> my dishwasher has some wifi connect thing
10:56:09 <reldred> HP look at stuff like corporate managed print services and thought ‘gee how can I capitalise on this and ram it down home users throats’
10:56:41 <reldred> Like unless you’re going to deliver me the consumables and send technicians out to repair the machine fuckoff with a subscription
11:02:17 <_glx_> The last time an inkjet decided to not print (usually happens every time you want it to) I switched to laser, no regrets
11:25:49 <pickpacket> andythenorth: what brand of printer did you buy?
11:27:26 <pickpacket> on a similar note; nintendo will remotely disable your switch 2 if they think you've fiddled with the hardware, and game cartridges don't contain the games only a key for downloading them in the online store
11:27:41 <LordAro> computers were a mistake, etc
11:27:57 <LordAro> in other news, i've just reported a powershell bug
11:28:33 <pickpacket> I don't trust anything like that. A friend had her steam account with a bit over $100 worth of games closed because steam thought she'd been cheating. My son had his pokemon go account closed for the same reason.
11:28:59 <pickpacket> Appealing goes something like this: "I didn't do anything wrong. Can you reactivate my account?", "No."
11:29:13 <pickpacket> LordAro: powershell *is* a bug'
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11:30:07 <jfkuayue> I am switching to Linux but I don't know how to continue university meetings on Microsoft Teams
11:30:28 <LordAro> the web app is mostly functional
11:30:58 <jfkuayue> Can I use wine for that?
11:31:28 <LordAro> teams.microsoft.com or whatever it actually is
11:31:50 <reldred> yeah just run it in the web browser
11:32:01 <reldred> The desktop apps now are all web technology anyway
11:32:39 <reldred> Only gotcha is if you have security controls enabled documents they have to be done in the desktop app but you shouldn’t have issues with that in university
11:32:48 <reldred> More an enterprise IT control
11:32:52 <xarick> battle of helicopters only
11:33:32 <andythenorth> pickpacket: HP of course 😛
11:33:37 <andythenorth> self-inflicted wound
11:33:48 <LordAro> "it hurt itself in its confusion"
11:33:49 <andythenorth> the one before was cheap AND good
11:33:53 <andythenorth> I guess no I have to pay
11:34:06 <LordAro> HP hasn't been cheap or good in at least 20 years
11:34:06 <andythenorth> HP bait and switch
11:34:14 <andythenorth> maybe I got a lucky dice roll
11:34:24 <LordAro> reldred: i don't even have to click on the link
11:34:30 <jfkuayue> My father bought a HP laptop **without USB** in 2009
11:34:42 <andythenorth> one of my kids bought a gaming PC...
11:34:46 <andythenorth> no wait we did all that chat
11:34:49 <pickpacket> jfkuayue: screw the app. I run linux at work and have chromium exclusively for teams
11:34:52 <andythenorth> but seriously, no USB C
11:34:59 <andythenorth> and some ports are USB 1.1
11:35:23 <LordAro> jfkuayue: that's... impressive. not even Apple do that, any idea of the model?
11:35:36 <reldred> Common in x86 land, but your kid also did buy a smoking pile of shit with an industrial ITX board in it
11:36:25 <reldred> Children are stupid, but you also let them, so, you know
11:36:59 <andythenorth> the Apple thing is the other way round
11:37:07 <jfkuayue> pickpacket: There are other softwares that can only run on Windows. Will wine solve all?
11:37:09 <andythenorth> "I am a Pro user, I need USB type A"
11:37:28 <reldred> jfkuayue: No, and you won’t know which til ya try.
11:37:34 <andythenorth> "I am a Pro user, my friends laugh at me for using a USB A -> C dongle"
11:37:40 <LordAro> wine does tend to be "quite good" these days
11:37:53 <LordAro> unless you're trying to do something unnecessarily complex
11:37:54 <reldred> Some stuff you’re just shit outta luck for
11:37:59 <jfkuayue> LordAro: Maybe he was referring to "no USB port besides the mouse port"
11:38:38 <reldred> Sounds like he bought some micro compact thing that’s supposed to live off a dock when not travelling
11:39:09 <reldred> I had an old ibm laptop once that only had a single USB port, but its docking station was quite impressive
11:39:48 <peter1138[d]> Proton tends to work a bit better than Wine, at least for games.
11:40:37 <peter1138[d]> (Proton is basically Wine but some more, or something.)
11:41:44 <reldred> Yeah but proton can’t do crap for desktop apps. I ended up going back to Windows on my little laptop just for WinTAK but it’s now looking like I don’t even need that installed now anyway though I guess I’ll find out when I have this interview whether I need all those windows based mapping apps I thought I was gonna need.
11:43:01 <pickpacket> jfkuayue: What type of software do you need? For office LibreOffice is the best, and it's compatible with Word/Excel. Adobe stuff will generally not work on linux and I wouldn't expect wine to solve that. Some games work, others don't.
11:43:37 <yiffgirl> pickpacket: wait, the entire account got nuked? i thought they only banned you from multiplayer in games with vac
11:44:02 <pickpacket> yiffgirl: for both steam and pokemon go the answer is yes.
11:44:22 <pickpacket> My friend on the steam account never even plays multiplayer games except for OpenTTD
11:44:23 <LordAro> *mostly compatible with Word/Excel
11:44:37 <LordAro> all sorts of hilariously fun tiny differences
11:44:49 <jfkuayue> pickpacket: I can now think of MagicaVoxel.
11:44:49 <jfkuayue> When running LibreOffice on Windows, I found it significantly slower than MS ones. I don't know why,
11:45:24 <pickpacket> jfkuayue: huh. I've had the exact opposite experience :D Though I haven't used Windows since 2016
11:45:41 <pickpacket> never heard of magicavoxel, sorry
11:46:20 <pickpacket> yiffgirl: yeah, but that's what the gaming industry is like now. And streaming, for that matter.
11:47:18 <pickpacket> They use some dumb filters that they trust 100% and have no way of -- or interest in -- figuring out what's a false positive
11:48:19 <pickpacket> sometimes I worry that my google account will get tripped up in some filter like that and I'll end up losing all my emails and all the stuff I've bought on youtube.
11:50:14 <peter1138[d]> My fediverse instance will never train AIs with my content...
11:51:42 <yiffgirl> pickpacket: i moved my email to a self hosted [actually ran by a close friend] a few years back. it's great! except none of my emails actually get read because google keeps telling everyone they're spam because i dared to use something other than the big guys
11:52:15 <peter1138[d]> Easy, don't send emails 😄
11:52:55 <peter1138[d]> I've self hosted mine for 25 years and have no intention of not doing that.
11:53:01 <pickpacket> yiffgirl: yeah, I've considered self hosting. Sadly the reverse pointer on my residential network doesn't point back to my public IP, and in practice that means all the big ones would consider it a spam instance
11:53:23 <pickpacket> a VPS is an option, but I don't want that
11:53:46 <pickpacket> peter1138[d]: I envy you
11:53:49 <jfkuayue> I need to integrate a mail system on my personal website
11:54:12 <peter1138[d]> Websites and emails are basically unrelated.
11:54:31 <pickpacket> _glx_: my ISP doesn't support IPv6 at all, sadly. Changing ISP wouldn't help either because they share the infrastructure
11:55:00 <yiffgirl> i still need to write that static generator for my website, it's in shambles right now.
11:55:30 <peter1138[d]> Not supporting IPv6 in 2015 is weird. Not supporting it in 2025 is stupid.
11:57:25 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, the framerate window's average times are a bit confusing.
11:57:46 <peter1138[d]> At least, with a graph open. The graph only shows a limited range, but the average is taken from the complete data.
11:58:28 <peter1138[d]> And, if something takes way longer than a tick, the average isn't affected much, compared to something that takes the same amount of time but is spread out over ticks.
12:56:03 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, git-fu... how do I make git 'forget' about remote branches it learned from git fetch?
12:56:28 <peter1138[d]> I needed to checkout a colleague's branch but now I have a reference to all.
13:09:47 <LordAro> remove the remote, presumably?
13:10:44 <LordAro> apparently `git branch --delete --remotes <remote>/<branch>` too
13:13:32 <peter1138[d]> Well, as long as I don't actually delete any of their branches 😄
13:13:54 <LordAro> you should know you can only affect the actual remote by pushing :p
13:22:56 <peter1138[d]> jfkuayue: This will help, probably.
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13:42:06 <peter1138[d]> Also, time for tea.
13:43:36 <andythenorth> I am on a train though
13:43:41 <LordAro> tea and some hobnobs, i think
13:52:48 <andythenorth> found some ginger biscuits in my bag
13:57:29 <jfkuayue> Oh and it reads “I don’t know how being drunk can help”, a reply to “You can use wine for that”
15:19:34 <xarick> how much influence does a headquarters in a town do to a company's cargo ratings
15:19:56 <xarick> or to a company's "something"
15:25:28 <xarick> i disabled funding buildings in towns
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17:11:16 <Rubidium> michi_cc: I looked into ranges::zip_view, but that returns tuples up to the shortest of the views you pass. So, you'd either need to make similar tuples for the remainder of the longer view (and deal with 1 or 2 values in those tuples), or make some view that splits those tuples into subsequent values. I also thought about maybe some ranges::interleave view existing, and then you could construct
17:11:22 <Rubidium> something like concat(interleave(reverse(before_middle), after_middle), remainder) (where before/after middle are subviews with equal length and remainder is the remainder of longer one)
17:39:18 <xarick> what can I made of these results
17:41:22 <xarick> advertising campaign spams are better than statues?
17:43:40 <xarick> gonna wait a few more years
17:44:39 <yiffgirl> well, statues are permanent...
18:06:24 <yiffgirl> "newgrf depots when" after multitile depots, i imagine.
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18:22:00 <peter1138[d]> So that was how I did the iterator...
18:22:48 <peter1138[d]> (Although it wasn't strictly necessary, I have a version without that is probably shorter, but it's not as neat and reusable... :p)
18:23:47 <peter1138[d]> The peak is about 80ms with OpenTTD Sans Mono, so not as bad, but still noticable.
18:46:45 <_zephyris> Looks much more useable
18:46:59 <_zephyris> I enjoy the yo-yoing scrollbar as it works out wth to do
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19:55:55 <xarick> reset button so tiny on the left
19:57:38 <xarick> not the kind of conflict I expected
19:59:34 <xarick> is there a possibility to use Mono for the AI/GS debug log window?
20:07:03 <_glx_> just 2 lines to edit I think
20:13:24 <_glx_> hmm seems editing 2 lines is not enough
20:20:42 <_glx_> with a 3rd edit it's better
20:33:57 <peter1138[d]> _zephyris: Well, that's not perfect, but eh
20:45:27 <xarick> top left - does nothing, top right - builds statues
20:45:27 <xarick> bot left - advertises, bot right - funds buildings
20:45:54 <xarick> advertisements payed off immediately
20:46:26 <xarick> the do nothing accumulates the most money
20:47:08 <xarick> statues had a bad start, so... hard to tell
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