IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-12-01
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04:47:53 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
05:15:45 <wensimehrp> ๐ minor problem though
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07:44:38 <bohaska> wensimehrp: don't the Chinese-style brackets naturally have space at their ends? like they look like this
07:44:38 <bohaska> even without any additional space
07:45:03 <wensimehrp> yeah but when you have multiple punctuations the spaces should merge
07:45:28 <bohaska> How do they implement that in existing systems?
07:45:39 <bohaska> Replace it with normal ()() brackets?
07:45:47 <wensimehrp> bohaska: that would be terrible then
07:46:23 <wensimehrp> I spent ages replacing half-width punctuation with proper full-width punctuation โน๏ธ
07:46:44 <bohaska> That seems like a giant pain to do...
07:48:24 <bohaska> wensimehrp: how would you combine two brackets together? like, what characters would you use? can you send a discord message that merges these brackets correctly?
07:49:25 <wensimehrp> ๆต่ฏๆต่ฏๆต่ฏ๏ผ่ฟไนๆฏๆต่ฏ๏ผ๏ผ่ฟ่ฟๆฏๆต่ฏ๏ผ
07:49:25 <wensimehrp> ๆต่ฏๅ
ซๅๅ่ทฏ๏ผโไฝ ็ๅคงๅคงๅฐๅฅฝ๏ผโๅ
ซๅๅ
ซๅ
07:49:57 <wensimehrp> bohaska: there aren't any special characters connecting the punctuation
07:50:08 <wensimehrp> it mostly depends on the font and the formatting engine
07:50:21 <wensimehrp> most modern web browsers have well support for that
07:56:25 <wensimehrp> the quotation mark and the comma didn't merge
08:31:52 <peter1138> wensimehrp: `STR_INDUSTRY_DIRECTORY_ITEM_INFO :{BLACK}{CARGO_LONG}{STRING}{YELLOW}๏ผ{COMMA}% ๅทฒ่ฟ่พ๏ผ{BLACK}`
08:33:14 <peter1138> So is it ") (" or ")(" ?
08:35:13 <peter1138> Oh directory, so not that string at all. Idiot.
08:39:27 <peter1138> Well, can't see when there's no suffix.
08:49:25 <peter1138> Cargo suffix text is a vanilla feature, but not used by my version of FIRS here.
08:49:37 <peter1138> Of course you might not even be using FIRS.
08:50:03 <peter1138> Or it might depend on the state of the game.
08:53:40 <wensimehrp> There's another place where the punctuation is displayed incorrectly, and it may be trickier
08:55:38 <peter1138> /* Add a comma if this is not the first item */
08:55:50 <wensimehrp> 3980:STR_INDUSTRY_DIRECTORY_ITEM_PROD2 :{ORANGE}{INDUSTRY} {STRING}ใ{STRING}
08:55:50 <wensimehrp> 3981:STR_INDUSTRY_DIRECTORY_ITEM_PROD3 :{ORANGE}{INDUSTRY} {STRING}ใ{STRING}ใ{STRING}
08:55:50 <wensimehrp> 3982:STR_INDUSTRY_DIRECTORY_ITEM_PRODMORE :{ORANGE}{INDUSTRY} {STRING}ใ{STRING}ใ{STRING}โฆโฆ๏ผๅฐๆ {NUM} ไธชๆชๆพ็คบ๏ผ
08:56:07 <wensimehrp> These ones I think
08:57:52 <wensimehrp> peter1138: This does not apply to Chinese though. Chinese uses `ใ` as the separator (the comma is `,`)
08:58:10 <peter1138> But this isn't that anyway.
08:58:46 <peter1138> Last time someone attempted to make things different based on localisation settings it all got out of hand with "this doesn't work now" that it all got reverted.
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09:00:27 <wensimehrp> Least for this case, the `{STRING}` holding the cargo name and transport status contains colour codes. The last piece of punctuation is a closing parenthesis, and it should merge with the separator following
09:00:47 <peter1138> So in the string that is "๏ผใ"
09:01:08 <peter1138> The space is because it's full-width characters.
09:01:19 <wensimehrp> I think OpenTTD supports ligatures already?
09:01:45 <peter1138> Ligatures are a font-specific feature.
09:02:36 <peter1138> Fonts can, e.g. combine "ff" to "๏ฌ", if they want to.
09:03:10 <peter1138> So the font you use could combine "๏ผใ" if it wanted to.
09:08:07 <wensimehrp> It doesn't want to merge anything
09:09:28 <wensimehrp> Source Han Sans CN
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09:21:32 <johnfranklin> Yesterday I consumed too little coffee and slept for 15 hours
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09:40:46 <bohaska> peter1138: I don't think it's usually done that way because it's inefficient to make a ligature for every single copy of a right space and a left space character together, and it seems to be implemented in text rendering most of the tme
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09:41:42 <andythenorth> right what was I doing?
09:41:46 <andythenorth> I've lost all context ๐
09:41:56 <LordAro> as far as i'm concerned
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09:41:58 <peter1138> Sure. What I meant was that ligatures are already supported, so it is, indeed, NOT a font ligature in this case.
09:42:07 <andythenorth> so I can't use unicode fractions in this channel?
09:42:53 <LordAro> someone should fix that
09:43:48 <johnfranklin> ๏ผน๏ผฏ๏ผตใ๏ผฃ๏ผก๏ผฎ
09:44:55 <andythenorth> how will I make my 15KV 16.7Hz AC railtype? ๐
09:45:28 <peter1138> 16.666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 Hz
09:45:57 <andythenorth> if only there was a mathematical convention for recurring
09:47:01 <andythenorth> did I hallucinate this?
09:47:22 <andythenorth> I did A-level and degree level engineering maths (wasn't very good but eh)
09:47:34 <andythenorth> we were taught a convention call 'dot' for recurring decimals
09:47:38 <andythenorth> google cannot find it
09:48:29 <andythenorth> maybe I imagined that, or the narrative timelines have been adjusted
09:50:47 <johnfranklin> Fuck, the train is cancelled.
09:51:50 <andythenorth> Yeah looks it was 'dots' above. I remember it like this though
09:52:05 <andythenorth> to avoid conflating with 'degree'
09:52:32 <andythenorth> seems to be hallucination
09:54:07 <johnfranklin> No? It should be the dot on top, or there are different notations
09:54:34 <johnfranklin> And I heard the UK tradition is the decimal point is in the middle
09:54:50 <andythenorth> mine was just hallucinated, nobody does what I've drawn
09:55:07 <andythenorth> nobody does that either ๐
09:56:03 <johnfranklin> That book was written in 1997, maybe things are different now
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10:41:19 <michi_cc[d]> andythenorth: By literally writing 16.7 Hz. Exact 16 2/3 Hz isn't actually used anymore because of harmonic interference. So it really is 16.7 nowadays.
10:45:11 <peter1138> Someone will then need to make another 10 railtypes to differentiate between 16.6ยท and 16.7...
10:45:19 <andythenorth> won't be me ๐
10:46:53 <andythenorth> can anyone remember current state of grf strings (and what nml is doing with them)?
10:47:14 <andythenorth> I thought Horse had used them all, but seems not
10:47:14 <andythenorth> ` nmlc info: D0xx strings: 50/1024
10:47:14 <andythenorth> nmlc info: DCxx strings: 501/10240`
10:49:17 <andythenorth> hmm the 110132 STORE_TEMP ops to the text stack might be why I didn't run out of string IDs ๐
10:49:43 <xarick> woah 126 messages since yesterday
10:54:13 <_glx_> andythenorth: Nml tries to use DCxx when possible
10:58:04 <andythenorth> wonder if I can reduce my 110132 text stack ops ๐
10:58:35 <andythenorth> they are all in the `name` callback ๐
10:59:36 <_glx_> Numbers seems to imply a lot of duplicated names, so only 501 DCxx
11:00:34 <andythenorth> it's all related to handling different variant levels
11:00:51 <andythenorth> any variant can become the parent in the tree
11:01:03 <andythenorth> which needs different strings
11:01:06 <andythenorth> and there's autoreplace as well
11:02:06 <peter1138> IMHO the name callback is silly, engines shouldn't be able to rename themselves. But it is there.
11:03:06 <andythenorth> maybe this would be fine also
11:04:07 <andythenorth> 'probably fine', but the callback handling for the suffix is templated in anyway, so I dropped it
11:04:30 <andythenorth> name callback means I can do this ๐
11:05:07 <peter1138> Hmm, should that be a badge feature?
11:05:11 <andythenorth> oof I've missed a case though ๐
11:05:20 <andythenorth> more callback handling needed ๐
11:05:26 <peter1138> Currently you get "Power: Diesel" in the additional text.
11:06:05 <andythenorth> variants as folders was never really expected ๐
11:06:38 <peter1138> Power units should be in a separate hierarchy to coaches.
11:06:51 <andythenorth> then they're really hard to find ๐
11:07:19 <andythenorth> this is convenient ๐
11:07:41 <andythenorth> maybe we should have arbitrary default buy menu order? ๐
11:07:52 <andythenorth> or 'group buy menu by badge'
11:10:36 <andythenorth> do badgers have nests?
11:11:05 <andythenorth> oof seems *every* variant does 11 STORE_TEMP ops for name cb
11:11:16 <andythenorth> even though in most cases, all children are same handling as parent
11:11:43 <andythenorth> I think it's done this way because I ran out of concurrent varact2 IDs, but I might have fixed that in the meantime
11:11:54 <andythenorth> the nfo bloat from this is horrible
11:14:23 <andythenorth> 82 MB nfo with the text stack handling, 72 MB without
11:15:07 <andythenorth> grf is only 2 MB smaller, but eh
11:15:30 <andythenorth> do we need engine names at all? ๐
12:08:28 <peter1138> How many GRF files do people have lying around in their newgrf / content_download directories?
12:09:07 <peter1138> 10s, 100s, or 1000s?
12:12:26 <merni> 100s is probably common and 1000s probably not rare if you include old versions.
12:14:49 <xarick> I'm dealing with a strange assert ๐ฆ
12:17:30 <xarick> TestRiverConnection doesn't find a path but when i go look at it, the river is connected
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12:18:33 <truebrain> peter1138: Something to add to the survey?
12:24:20 <peter1138> Nah, it's not important.
12:24:38 <peter1138> I suspect I have more than most given I test a few things here and there.
12:24:58 <peter1138> But then again, I've never added enough NewGRFs to think a limit needs to be increased.
12:25:16 <truebrain> It is a curious number to have, tbh.. we always talk about caching the scan, but how many people benefit? ๐
12:25:49 <peter1138> I have around 1000, but the scan does not take very long, so...?
12:26:34 <peter1138> It's noticeable on debug, but otherwise is just a second.
12:26:48 <peter1138> Probably SSDs helped?
12:28:16 <andythenorth> mostly I don't use them
12:28:29 <xarick> oh, I got a max_search_nodes limit reached on TestRiverConnection ๐ฆ
12:35:42 <mnhebi> quite a few of those are just version upgrades tho
12:36:14 <peter1138> I just like to download lots of them so I can complain about them ๐
12:36:16 <mnhebi> like 60 versions of Tot's cargo distance mod lol
12:37:28 <peter1138> At least the scrollbar slider is usable now.
12:43:10 <johnfranklin> typical British train services
12:43:30 <peter1138> I think you're getting a bus today.
12:47:00 <johnfranklin> I think I can apply for refunds for very much delayed trains?
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12:52:44 <peter1138> Well, DB sold Arriva apaprently, so...
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14:01:52 <andythenorth> I gave up merge rights on nml ๐
14:02:00 <andythenorth> fell out with myself ๐
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14:42:06 <LordAro> kuhnovic: worth trying to get it into master behind a key combo perhaps?
14:42:14 <kuhnovic> The drawing functionality might be useful for your river shenanigans as well
14:42:29 <kuhnovic> I'll put it behind Alt-F4
14:43:05 <peter1138> Silly me adding debug features in live code ;p
14:43:33 <kuhnovic> The implementation is quite hacky, I'm messing with the viewport drawing. I don't really feel comfortable putting it in master as it is today.
15:10:43 <xarick> I'm at the last part of my river memes
15:10:54 <xarick> dealing with "partially built rivers"
15:12:35 <xarick> rivers that built up to a point, but then failed to continue because pathfinder reached search node limit
15:13:46 <xarick> in these cases, I am relocating the spring to the last built position
15:14:19 <xarick> and still check if the partially built river is connected
15:15:07 <xarick> and convert canals from the upper parts that failed into clear land
15:16:32 <xarick> but for some reason now I'm not getting the pathfinder to fail in a specific way ๐ฆ
15:18:17 <xarick> it seems to run out of nodes only on the last part that flows down into ocean, and not a level before ๐ฆ
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15:43:41 <xarick> generating trees on arctic is ugly slow
16:16:57 <xarick> wow... it's actually disconnected
16:21:32 <xarick> 5 cases, and they're all positive
16:26:24 <xarick> and here I was thinking I was about to wrap
16:32:04 <andythenorth> kuhnovic: alias it to `newgame` also ๐
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17:11:58 <xarick> how am I solving this situation...
17:13:41 <xarick> canalise the entire skeleton river?
17:15:27 <xarick> once entire river is build and widened from spring to end, convert canals to rivers
18:29:12 <xarick> The circular tile search used for widening is a little bit... bad
18:31:10 <xarick> maybe it's fine after all, but the way it jumps from a tile to the other
18:32:40 <xarick> for radius 2 is fine, but for radius 3... it jumps from the center to the tile in DIR_W direction, which is not directly adjacent
18:40:01 <peter1138> The function literally explains why.
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20:28:45 <johnfranklin> It is impossible to make it clearer without using other colours ๐ฆ
20:32:11 <andythenorth> seems pretty accurate ๐
20:43:23 <exceptik> xarick: That repeating pattern doesn't look right ๐ค
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21:01:48 <xarick> it's perlin noise something
21:06:56 <xarick> wow this is the worst I've seen
21:11:04 <xarick> ```/* We manually set the Directions to widen the river in adjacent basis manner. */
21:11:04 <xarick> std::vector<Direction> directions;
21:11:04 <xarick> if (radius >= 2) directions.insert(directions.end(), { DIR_SE, DIR_S, DIR_SW });
21:11:04 <xarick> if (radius == 3) directions.insert(directions.end(), { DIR_W, DIR_NW, DIR_N, DIR_NE, DIR_E });
21:11:04 <xarick> for (Direction d : directions) {
21:11:05 <xarick> TileIndex t = AddTileIndexDiffCWrap(tile, TileIndexDiffCByDir(d));
21:11:05 <xarick> RiverMakeWider(t, reinterpret_cast<void *>(&tile));
21:18:19 <xarick> do i really need to do skeletton river approach?
21:18:44 <xarick> build canals instead of rivers
21:19:09 <xarick> convert canals to rivers once river is completelly built
21:19:22 <xarick> canals can't be terraformed
21:20:25 <xarick> more performant debug mode?
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21:33:27 <xarick> oh well, let's do skeleton rivers ๐ฆ
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21:59:34 <andythenorth> so what was I doing?
21:59:43 <andythenorth> removing FIRS animated tiles?
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22:06:16 <xarick> can we have unterraformable rivers?
22:06:49 <xarick> some rivers have this temporary property, the others don't
22:07:43 <xarick> so that I can stop using canals for preventing terraform, these rivers would still look like rivers
22:08:04 <andythenorth> unterraformable rivers would be annoying ๐
22:10:22 <xarick> this property would only be in effect during world gen
22:10:52 <kuhnovic> I actually think it could be a fun challenge. You can't alter any of the rivers / sea, so build bridges instead.
22:11:25 <kuhnovic> But that would be for different reasons than what Xarick wants
22:14:24 <peter1138> River destruction by magic bulldozer
22:15:02 <peter1138> Terraforming is too easy and cheap.
22:17:44 <xarick> is it worth wasting 1 bit in the map array for this abuse?
22:18:24 <peter1138> Just disable it completely first
22:18:24 <kuhnovic> Why would you need a bit per tile?
22:19:11 <xarick> it still is an abuse, and hackish
22:19:46 <xarick> unless someone who understands puzzles, and slopes and heights
22:20:04 <xarick> can design a better river gen algorithm
22:24:25 <peter1138> Flow & erosion, sure.
22:27:07 <xarick> wtf, landscape grid is still not fixed
22:40:48 <peter1138> IMHO bits are either free or not.
22:41:00 <peter1138> Not "could be free if the code was changed"
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23:08:02 <xarick> `if (_generating_world && IsRiver(tile) && IsUnterraformableRiver(tile)) return CMD_ERROR;`
23:12:45 <peter1138> `chmod +r-w #openttd-development`
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23:29:51 <wensimehrp> rm -rf Discord channel #openttd-development
23:40:19 <_glx_> just disable river terraforming in mapgen
23:40:50 <xarick> that's an all or nothing approach
23:41:18 <xarick> I still want some of the rivers to be maleable, but not the "bone structure"
23:41:39 <_glx_> with a marker for the current step if you want fine tuning
continue to next day โต
