IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-10-05
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04:45:43 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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08:15:32 <andythenorth> so is OpenTTD dying?
08:18:36 <LordAro> only when your MBP is turned off
08:18:48 <LordAro> is that joke played out yet?
08:25:48 <andythenorth> nah, as long as we don't use it too often
08:27:30 <truebrain> it is just expensive, your MBP
08:28:42 <andythenorth> I think it's amortised
08:29:32 <truebrain> I had to look up that words; but "amortised" is for intangible objects. Is your MBP not tangible?! 😮
08:30:18 <truebrain> that does explain a thing or two, for sure
08:31:36 <peter1138> Urgh, took the dogs out for a short walk, they're not worn out but I am. What the heck...
08:31:58 <peter1138> At least that makes me feel a bit better about not going out cycling.
08:32:02 <truebrain> so now who took who out for a walk, he? 😛
08:45:05 <andythenorth> truebrain: now you made me talk to GPT about it 😦
08:45:21 <truebrain> You can also, you know, open a dictonary
08:45:59 <andythenorth> the dictionary is not algorithmically tuned to tell me what I want to hear, in fancy words
08:52:11 <andythenorth> johnfranklin: we already established, you're in the UK? 😛
08:52:37 <johnfranklin> And for the coming 2/3 year
08:52:42 <andythenorth> 'tomorrow rain' is every day
08:53:20 <andythenorth> so if I buy a new MBP, does that stop OpenTTD dying?
08:53:27 <andythenorth> [grf compile times are getting too long here]
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09:02:16 <peter1138> (At this speed it should not show this much resolution)
09:05:37 <peter1138> And ths is 1 real day per game year. Very slow.
09:09:14 <truebrain> The fact time doesn't flow by in a regular pace disturbs me greatly
09:10:23 <peter1138> Probably the tick update and the redraw interval and the video capture rate are not aligned.
09:11:49 <peter1138> Rounding to 1 hour at 60 minutes per year is still a bit fast. Hmm.
09:12:42 <peter1138> (There was an autosave there)
09:13:07 <peter1138> Hmm, no, 20 -> 21 is not regular.
09:13:45 <peter1138> Ah no, just a coincidence.
09:15:22 <peter1138> Perhaps I need a new calendar timer event for "display time has changed"
09:21:13 <truebrain> per hour does look better than per minute 🙂
09:22:24 <xarick> CoPilot is excelent at writing comments!
09:35:33 <xarick> i wonder, is depot.reverse information required at all?
09:43:36 <xarick> okay, it is required for trains
09:43:45 <xarick> but is it required for ships?
09:49:13 <xarick> the information is discarded alltogether
09:51:56 <peter1138> Oh, adding the event is a pain in the bum 😦
09:58:13 <peter1138> Hmm, I should look at the surveys to see what minutes-per-year values are used.
09:59:36 <peter1138> minutes_per_calendar_year
09:59:48 <peter1138> "Everyone wants this feature"
10:00:44 <xarick> "oops"--- "I was nearly sure this wouldn't happen"... then it happens
10:00:51 <peter1138> Oh it's the maximum. 1 week per game year. Does anyone really play it that slow? 😄
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10:10:00 <Rubidium> peter1138: I wonder how many still want the feature and simply do not know how to set it?
10:13:18 <audigex> andythenorth: At that price, yes. £5k for refurb? Yikes
10:13:34 <audigex> I know it has ALL the RAM, but that's still insane
10:20:00 <peter1138> Even at 60 minutes per year, perhaps 1 hour intervals are too short. Hmm.
10:20:13 <andythenorth> audigex: I guess if you edit videos at £500 / day it’s justified
10:21:29 <audigex> I'm still not sure it's really worth it for most people over a £3k equivalent or something - even video editing doesn't usually need 128GB and I'd just get a desktop at that point anyway
10:31:52 <peter1138> What other interval is suitable...
10:32:42 <andythenorth> Oof I have to fix FIRS for wall clock eh
10:47:29 <andythenorth> can't remember, but think it was incorrect text strings
10:47:43 <andythenorth> economy time vs wall time
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12:03:18 <peter1138> Hmm, where else. I think most things were changed to show real-time.
12:03:29 <peter1138> Timetabling shows real seconds.
12:03:53 <peter1138> Build dates don't store build time 😄
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12:42:36 <andythenorth> nml patch, yolo?
13:06:01 <xarick> damn intermediate destinations...
13:12:47 <xarick> ship is at **1**, wants to go to depot at **5**, within 2000 max cost. The cost from where ship is to the border between **4 **and **5** is less than 2000. This cost is not towards the depot 😦
13:18:42 <xarick> when there's 5 or more patches of water, an intermediate destination is set. What this means is when the track follower reaches the first tile of that patch of water, it returns path found, with whatever cost it had at that point.
13:19:41 <xarick> I can't or shouldn't use this cost to decide whether the depot is within reach
14:02:31 <peter1138> talltyler: what do you think about adding time-of-day to the status bar when minutes-per-year allows it?
14:02:38 <peter1138> (I've got a patch to do this)
14:07:07 <talltyler> Tentatively in favor. I considered it as part of NoDL but can’t remember if my decision to drop it was based simply on “it doesn’t solve timetabling when time is frozen” or if there was another problem. I think probably the former. 🙂
14:08:43 <peter1138> Yeah. This basically adds it only to the status-bar, it doesn't make much sense elsewhere.
14:09:09 <peter1138> Unless you can think of somewhere that it does.
14:09:32 <peter1138> Although having added TimerGameCalendar::TIME seems a bit overkill for just this, heh.
14:11:24 <peter1138> On the slowest interval, it days ~17 seconds to increase by 15 minutes.
14:12:19 <peter1138> I'm thinking depending on the minutes-per-year, we can show 15 min, 30 min, or 1 hour interval.
14:12:58 <peter1138> (It goes too quickly to always show 30 minutes or 15 minutes, and plain minutes is too fast even at 10080, imho)
14:13:47 <peter1138> But at 24 minutes per day, even hours is a bit too fast.
14:15:12 <talltyler> Oh, some of my decision may have been to avoid players confusing real minutes and seconds with the fake minutes and seconds
14:15:30 <talltyler> Our UI uses exclusively real minutes and seconds in Wallclock mode
14:15:55 <peter1138> That's another reason to NOT sure minute intervals 😄
14:19:14 <peter1138> Or we can try looser terms.
14:19:24 <peter1138> "morning", "afternoon", "evening"
14:19:45 <peter1138> (Mmm, translations)
14:31:05 <peter1138> Nah, that doesn't work. Too much variation in length.
14:46:35 <peter1138> You're there, I'm here...
14:52:30 <peter1138> Hmm, I think there's no string code for showing X leading zeros.
14:52:47 <peter1138> (As defined by the string, instead of defined by the parameters)
15:40:11 <peter1138> Rate-of-change is okay, interval is... a bit weird.
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16:16:52 <kuhnovic> Maybe 6 hour increments? That might feel a bit more in sync with "morning", "afternoon" etc
16:17:07 <kuhnovic> It might be just as weird though
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16:27:27 <xarick> wow, i found an edgy case for one of my optimisation attempts. If the ship is under a ship depot and wants to automatically service there but needs to do a big detour to turn around, it will trigger a "not sticking with this path" assert.
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16:31:59 <xarick> pff, this thing happens more often than I expected
16:34:11 <belajalilija> johnfranklin: is this where i think it is?
16:39:49 <xarick> GetNewVehiclePosResult gp = GetNewVehiclePos(v);
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16:41:19 <xarick> maybe the pathfinder needs to know subtile positions
16:42:14 <peter1138> The pathfinder does not need to know subtile positions.
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17:21:24 <xarick> CheckIfShipNeedsService happens first before ShipController
17:23:01 <xarick> okay what I am trying to do is detect whether the ship is behind the entry point of a depot
17:23:25 <xarick> so that I feed the depot, or throw it to the pathfinder
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17:54:09 <peter1138> Linking to a discussion does not do much 😄
17:54:30 <peter1138> Discussions are pretty dumb.
18:10:45 <peter1138> Individual chicken pie. 797 kcal. How...
18:10:54 <peter1138> It's smaller than my hand :S
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18:45:09 <kuhnovic> The magic of saturated fats
19:04:14 <johnfranklin> belajalilija: goosefair nottingham
19:06:09 <johnfranklin> The Jollibee chicken sandwich combo is £10.99 and 1300 kcal, hard to imagine…
19:07:20 <johnfranklin> DOUBLE DECKER IS GOOD
19:14:19 <xarick> oh snap, i found a problem
19:14:52 <xarick> remember those is docking tile costs?
19:15:11 <xarick> this is messing up findclosestshipdepot in tight canals
19:16:36 <xarick> costs vary depending on the position of another ship
19:16:44 <belajalilija> johnfranklin: not what i thought
19:17:26 <xarick> which means... it could find a ship depot within a cost vs not finding it the next day
19:21:00 <xarick> the more I dig, the more problems I find
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19:30:03 <xarick> my day is ruined again
19:30:45 <xarick> the solution to separate ships towards different docking positions needs to be re-evaluated
19:37:03 <xarick> cheating a little bit:
19:37:03 <xarick> if (IsDockingTile(n.GetTile()) && m_max_cost == 0) {
19:50:26 <peter1138> xarick: If only you had stored the depot you want to go to 😉
19:53:44 <xarick> if I pass to the pf the same source and destination, now the pf returns immediately
20:02:26 <kuhnovic> About a year ago. I did that.
20:03:43 <kuhnovic> Ok more like half a year ago
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20:07:31 <xarick> j/k, but it doesn't help my case
20:08:27 <kuhnovic> Basically, if that happens, then the pathfinder shouldn't have been called because there's no need: you are already there
20:08:45 <xarick> that assumption is wrong
20:09:48 <johnfranklin> Does the anglosphere programmers have this joke?
20:09:48 <johnfranklin> A programmer went into a pub and ordered one pint of beer.
20:09:48 <johnfranklin> A programmer went into a pub and ordered one cup of coffee.
20:09:48 <johnfranklin> A programmer went into a pub and ordered nothing.
20:09:48 <johnfranklin> A programmer went into a pub and ordered minus one pints of beer.
20:09:49 <johnfranklin> A programmer went into and out of a pub again and again.
20:09:49 <johnfranklin> A programmer went into a pub and ordered 0.5 pints of beer.
20:09:51 <johnfranklin> 65536 programmers went into a pub and ordered 2147483648 pints of beer.
20:09:51 <johnfranklin> A programmer went into a pub and ordered one pint of beer paying nothing.
20:09:53 <johnfranklin> A programmer went into a pub and beat the staff.
20:09:55 <johnfranklin> And a customer ordered a sandwich. The pub exploded.
20:10:17 <xarick> subtile position of the ship in the tile can affect whether it can reach the depot
20:14:01 <xarick> maybe an "ignore first tile" option be made available on the pf
20:14:54 <xarick> ignore destination detection on first node kind of thing
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21:55:43 <xarick> detecting whether the ship has passed the "entry point" of a depot
21:57:44 <xarick> if yes, ask the pre #12217 pathfinder to find the nearest depot within a cost limit.
22:00:41 <xarick> the path forward could be on a long tight line of canals with no suitable patch of water in sight to make a 180 degree turn (goes past the cost)
22:02:32 <xarick> so, in a situation like this, it was helpful of pre #12217 to return no path found
22:37:33 <ian01223> ~~surely it wouldn't be that hard~~
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22:40:45 <peter1138> Step 1) Understand what the problem is.
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