IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-08-03
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01:37:39 <reldred> _glx_: So, I’ve been doing that lately to brute force the sprite sorter with oversized sprites. It’s bad, I know, but I like big buildings and I cannot lie.
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04:42:23 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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08:25:36 <merni> reldredviaGitHub: Well, yeah, but one of the most common IRL ways to "turn around" is to detach the locomotive and either run it around to the other end or attach another one at the other end
08:25:50 <merni> Which isn't possible in openttd until we add something like the shunting patch
08:26:18 <andythenorth> never going to happen 🙂
08:26:40 <andythenorth> here's my gate, would you like to keep it? 🙂
08:30:57 <FLHerne> peter1138: those are some very nice numbers :-)
08:31:23 <reldred> merni: let me worry about that in my own games
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12:22:03 <peter1139> And I want to test the numbers with this station...
12:24:54 <johnfranklin> I am guessing, there might be an "english barrier" for openttd discussions (bug report, feature request, etc)
12:49:51 <peter1139> Kinda relieved that it does show a performance benefit at all ;)
12:50:34 <reldred> Yes please. Anything that makes making stations easier plz.
12:51:40 <peter1139> Well, doing CB14 vs CB24 probably isn't that much different.
12:52:17 <peter1139> Although of course there are also the static layouts defined with property 0E.
12:53:11 <peter1139> Don't know if NML supports that.
12:59:28 <gwyd4016> This isn't a great example because it has such a simple varact2 chain
12:59:49 <gwyd4016> I'll make one with a more complex chain to test along side
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13:00:06 <peter1139> Even so it still shows a performance benefit.
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13:18:36 <peter1139> michi_cc[d], fixed it (went to /edit/ and simply saved it)
13:19:18 <peter1139> And yeah, it's not updated.
13:21:47 <truebrain> Tnx. Sometimes it cached an empty page, still no clue why. Can't reproduce it, so hard to see if my fixes work 😛
14:00:15 <peter1139> Wondering about industry tiles now, given what FIRS does...
14:00:38 <peter1139> Simplest is to increase the global tile id space.
14:01:43 <peter1139> Map-wise it's possible to make them per-industry, but the definition doesn't work like that.
14:03:20 <peter1139> Maybe a per-industry(spec) lookup from industry id + map tile id to industry tile id is possible.
14:03:47 <peter1139> Similar to how stations have the speclists.
14:07:04 <peter1139> Might help resolve the silliness of every having every time animated even though it doesn't change.
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16:16:13 <andythenorth> peter1139: I really thought you’d patched this already, possibly per industry 😛
16:24:13 <merni> johnfranklin: That is pretty common for open source projects (and software generally), unfortunately
16:24:55 <merni> People can use online translation though
16:30:42 <andythenorth> Are there no branches lurking?
16:30:43 <gwyd4016> Do stations have access to var67 during cb24?
16:31:29 <gwyd4016> Docs say 40+x and 80+x variables are inaccessible because the station hasn't been built yet
16:32:00 <gwyd4016> 60+x is different from 40+x (I think) but it doesn't seem to be giving the expected results them
16:33:01 <gwyd4016> This is an updated version of the more tile types test grf, that just uses variable 67 to sum the tile classes of the surrounding 8 tiles
16:33:35 <gwyd4016> Then will either use CB 14 to use that to decide the number it shows, or will set it as its tile type, which then decides the number it shows
16:33:50 <gwyd4016> However, the CB24 version only ever shows 00 or something
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16:38:44 <peter1139> Hmm, "as the station is not yet completely finished, the station does not yet exist"
16:39:05 <peter1139> Which is weird, it does actually exist, and if you are adding to an existing station that would also exist, but apparently doesn't.
16:40:06 <peter1139> Var 67 looks like it should exist though.
16:41:38 <peter1139> But during construction not all the tiles will exist yet.
16:42:38 <peter1139> Maybe GetNearbyTile needs to be faked during CB24.
16:44:13 <peter1139> Or maybe we could make CB24 2-stage.
16:44:36 <peter1139> Place all the tiles with a fixed layout first, then run CB24 for each tile in turn.
16:52:43 <gwyd4016> I can imagine this getting a bit weird
16:58:10 <gwyd4016> Tbf the case I'm thinking of already exists
16:58:34 <gwyd4016> CB24 gets a version of var41 which has tile type
17:08:22 <gwyd4016> On the topic of var 41, are the high 4 bits of var 40, 41, etc are going to become the high 4 bits of the tile type?
17:13:13 <peter1139> Interesting that it's 4 bits, when only 3 are used :)
17:44:29 <gwyd4016> And in a sense, only 2
17:44:40 <gwyd4016> Or did you get the lowest bit too?
17:47:37 <peter1139> Lowest bit is included.
17:49:12 <sono3304> will we ever get diagnonal tunnels?
17:49:34 <sono3304> or bridges over bridges
17:49:43 <gwyd4016> Water tunnels has been done
17:50:00 <gwyd4016> Diagonal tunnels are more likely than diagonal bridges
17:50:02 <sono3304> oh interesting whats the mod called or is it in the game and i havent realized
17:51:51 <_jgr_> I doubt that there is any patch for it which is even remotely recent/compatible with the current version
17:51:56 <gwyd4016> I forgot what the command is
17:52:04 <gwyd4016> Discord channel #jgr-patch-pack
17:52:15 <FLHerne> gwyd4016: Cirdan did diagonal bridges I think
17:52:57 <gwyd4016> Diagonal tunnels felt more intuitive because it could in theory do without new graphics, if the entrances were still not diagonal
17:53:20 <FLHerne> no, I misremembered, it was just allowing diagonal tracks/junctions on bridgeheads
17:53:34 <gwyd4016> Ah, that is nice too though
17:54:00 <FLHerne> that was years ago and never got merged though :-(
17:54:23 <_jgr_> Water tunnels would have horrendous clipping/sprite sorting issues
17:54:46 <_jgr_> Ships are bad enough for that already
17:54:58 <sono3304> cant just have road tunnel and call it a water tunnel and let ships use it
17:54:59 <FLHerne> they could be allowed only for very small ships :p
17:55:19 <gwyd4016> Oh that kind of water tunnel
17:55:40 <sono3304> yea like sea level water tunnel
17:55:41 <FLHerne> typing from a small boat that has been through many tunnels, it's certainly possible :p
17:56:29 <sono3304> would be a nice addition to the current canals system
18:37:25 <peter1139> gwyd4016, what variables does v2 test in the CB24 version?
18:41:53 <gwyd4016> For both CB24 and CB14
18:45:14 <peter1139> Ah, summing tile classes, so it depends on the type of tiles around it. I need to make sure there no trees etc :)
18:46:24 <gwyd4016> The highest tile class is company owned land/objects
18:47:31 <gwyd4016> Also the number on the tile is not the same as the sum of tile classes
18:49:31 <gwyd4016> It's wrong for something to do with the fact that I didn't add letters to the tile numbers
18:50:18 <peter1139> I only care that CB14 and CB24 looks the same :)
18:51:10 <peter1139> If I don't pass the station, then I still get 01 every time. Hmm.
18:53:56 <peter1139> Okay, I think this is a var67 bug :D
18:55:05 <peter1139> var67 uses the resolver's axis object, because the tile doesn't exist yet.
18:55:17 <peter1139> But axis is only set for station tile slope checks, not general callbacks.
19:01:22 <gwyd4016> I was hoping to use var 67 extensively in cb 24 to detect if a bridge crosses the station
19:04:53 <peter1139> A variable (or a bit in an existing variable) for has bridge above would make sense?
19:05:20 <peter1139> Maybe JGRPP already has that. Vanilla doesn't given it doesn't have bridges above stations.
19:13:12 <gwyd4016> It uses some maths to find the tile offset needed to reach 1 tile past the end of the station
19:13:40 <gwyd4016> Then checks that both sides have the tile class be equal to 9
19:14:59 <gwyd4016> It currently uses advanced sprite offsets and registers to work it out
19:15:52 <gwyd4016> But I'd like to work it out once for CB24
19:16:17 <gwyd4016> Then set the registers just using prop 41
19:25:02 <talltyler> Who knew that batteries trains in Toyland might be a real thing someday?
19:28:55 <andythenorth> have we heard of 'wires'?
19:31:18 <talltyler> “Wires are too hard”
19:31:43 <talltyler> I mean, looking at the pathetic amount of railway electrification done here, maybe they have a point
19:49:20 <gwyd4016> Trains carrying charged batteries isn't much sillier than trains carrying diesel fuel
19:51:26 <andythenorth> we used to ship videos by train, on a hard drive
19:59:00 <talltyler> And "mobile peaker" might be very useful to the grid
20:06:44 <audigex> gwyd4016: And even with full batteries, the cost savings vs diesel EASILY outweigh the extra electricity used hauling empty batteries around
20:07:25 <audigex> I run my car at 2p/mile vs diesel which is ~15-16p/mile, and petrol a bit more than that. No reason train operators can't do much the same
20:10:34 <audigex> Obviously 100% battery units make a bit less sense as you'd have to carry a LOT of battery for a long intercity route with few stops, but with many stops, or a short branch off an electrified mainline, they're potentially pretty useful
20:10:34 <audigex> Although I think the really sensible use for battery trains is "bridging gaps" (sometimes literally) in electrification programs. Electrify the open bits of track next to fields, skip the tunnels and bridges and stations with low canopies and just use batteries in those sections
20:10:34 <audigex> Something like 1/2-2/3 of most electrification programs cost comes down to expensive things like enlarging tunnels, raising bridges, and bypassing obstacles... if you can skip that part then you can electrify MUCH cheaper
20:11:24 <talltyler> That's an interesting perspective on battery-electric trains I hadn't considered.
20:12:05 <talltyler> I've been hating on them as lazy cop-outs from full electrification, but filling gaps is the 80/20 rule in effect.
20:12:23 <talltyler> That said, the link I posted is about utilities shipping power by rail instead of high-voltage lines. 😛
20:13:16 <audigex> Birmingham's tram network has done something similar to get a cheap extension to one of their lines too. Charge under the wires, then do a quick jaunt off the wires at the end of the route without having to pay for the electrification there. I think Merseyrail (Liverpool's metro network) is doing something much the same
20:14:56 <peter1138> Yeah battery-as-popwer is not the same as battery-as-cargo 🙂
20:19:49 <sono3304> would it be possible to make it so a player can build within a message window, for example when it pops up that a train is stuck, without going to that location we could actually edit the track within the window
20:21:00 <andythenorth> we can afford to ship coal by rail to generate electricit
20:21:29 <andythenorth> and usually end products have lower weight and/or lower volume, so cheaper to ship (unless fragile)
20:21:48 <andythenorth> so maybe shipping batteries is the future
20:22:10 <sono3304> oh wait you already can
20:25:26 <peter1138> Well, power produced by coal is pretty much dead,
20:28:53 <peter1138> Bug in TTD: Coal plants don't a cesssation date.
20:29:11 <peter1138> Bug in TTD: Coal plants don't have a cessation date.
20:33:48 <peter1138> Bug in UK: What the actual fuck you racist pricks?
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20:49:57 <gwyd4016> I feel the media has fanned the flames of this a little
20:50:32 <gwyd4016> Midday news on BBC was basically like "ooh are we going to get more riots over the weekend?"
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22:01:16 <pickpacket> What's going on in the UK?
22:23:30 <gwyd4016> National protests and riots due to a stabbing attack that killed 3 young girls
22:24:19 <gwyd4016> Except many of these riots are being targeted towards Muslims, mosques, and symbols of and individuals within immigrant communities
22:24:36 <gwyd4016> Despite the attacker being neither Muslim nor an immigrant
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23:20:40 <audigex> And as always, let's point out that these are like a few hundred people out of 70 million - they don't represent most of us
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