IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-04-15
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04:44:39 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
06:10:58 <truebrain> Normally it took 2 minutes to compress all the surveys of a day down to a tiny little ball .. today it took 15 minutes
06:42:08 <kuhnovic> Do you have the number of minutes played, just as a teaser? 😇
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07:04:41 <_zephyris> If that 15:2 ratio is accurate, lots!
07:08:45 <_zephyris> Totally depends on game length, but if the average is similar to last week's RC3 (2.7 h/game) then 30,000+ hours. Potentially even more, as the gain is going to be dominantly not from JGRPP.
07:09:04 <_zephyris> It's going to be very interesting!
07:10:08 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 15 of 2024 (by OpenTTD Survey)
07:40:54 <kuhnovic> Speak of the devil 🙂
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08:57:15 <_zephyris> Only wrong by a factor of 5 😛
08:57:25 <_zephyris> But I forgot to account for number of days available
09:00:30 <peter1138> Hmm, 75 new fediverse followers.
09:01:39 <LordAro> it's doing the thing where msftconnecttest.com is redirecting again
09:56:55 <truebrain> 85% Steam active, lol
09:58:07 <truebrain> Only 10% without hardware acceleration
09:59:08 <truebrain> Both totally different from RC3
09:59:28 <truebrain> Can't wait for next week, a full week of 14.0 will be interesting
10:00:18 <truebrain> (Steam auto updates, so results are more skewed towards Steam users atm ofc)
10:02:27 <peter1138> Well, is it lunch time yet?
10:16:38 <orudge> truebrain: sorry, been out for the weekend so missed the release, but will get winstore uploaded now.
10:16:54 <orudge> Now that we have an Azure account, we can maybe figure out how to automate WinStore releases (it required Azure authentication as I recall)...
10:53:01 <johnfranklin> Dinner... Ate some meat with "bones."
10:54:51 <peter1138> What, why is a bike with only Shimano 105 £5000....
10:59:29 <peter1138> Javascript eh? ```for(_=[];_<+!![]+""+[]*[]+[]*[];_++%+(!![]+!![])?[]:console.log(_));```
11:19:28 <andythenorth> peter1138: your bike runs JS? 😮
11:27:52 <LordAro> Wouldn't surprise me if e-bikes did
11:45:28 <truebrain> orudge: No worries, take your time 🙂 and yeah, automation helps. Or if you like write a doc how to do it and we can help out. But all good 🙂
12:02:50 <peter1138> Does everything on bananas require a unique 32-bit identifier?
12:14:10 <_glx_> Not scenarios, nor heightmaps IIRC
13:23:16 <LordAro> not especially surprising
13:24:53 <merni> Is the "other" because there were some people who used 0 as well?
13:28:03 <_jgr_> OPF is entirely gone now
13:30:47 <kuhnovic> You can tell Merni's hands are itching to throw NPF into the bin 😛
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13:58:34 <peter1138> But all that effort someone put into it recently 😉
14:18:01 <merni> _jgr_: But could it still be in some settings/savegames?
14:23:06 <_jgr_> merni: No, see the setting min/max values
14:23:41 <_glx_> there's a conversion when loading anyway
14:27:38 <andythenorth> "does anyone use NPF?"
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14:30:07 <talltyler> That’s why we have a survey
14:30:24 <talltyler> The answer is yes, but not many anyones
14:34:11 <pickpacket> What is "unofficial-breakpad", why is it highly discouraged to compile without it, and how do I install it?
14:34:33 <_glx_> it's used to generate crash dumps
14:35:17 <_glx_> but crash dumps are only usable by us if coming from our own builds
14:36:06 <_glx_> and you need vcpkg to install it
14:38:59 <pickpacket> then I shall care no more :D
14:43:56 <emperorjake> That's because of the change in hidden roadtypes from a while back
14:46:47 <talltyler> This is very interesting, it seems over a quarter of 14.0 players are American (or Canadian, I guess, or are otherwise choosing American English). British English is only 17.7%.
14:48:42 <pickpacket> talltyler: that's blasphemous!
14:48:56 <pickpacket> talltyler: how many choose right-hand traffic?
14:53:17 <talltyler> All that said, I’d bet timezones are seriously skewing the data. The release was on Saturday and Americans had all day to update to 14.0 and play, while it was already evening for Europeans. I don’t think any of this data means anything until two weeks from now.
14:53:33 <kamnet> emperorjake: Maybe, this individual on TT-F started a game in 2077 though, is there a NRT road set that doesn't provide town roads in late game?
14:54:28 <talltyler> Quite possible, NewGRF authors do lots of silly things 🙂
14:54:42 <talltyler> (Speaking as a NewGRF author who has done lots of silly things)
14:55:19 <_glx_> hey it was in the afternoon in europe
14:57:07 <emperorjake> kamnet: Never really played Wasteland, no idea what it does with roadtypes
14:57:32 <peter1138> talltyler: It might just be defaulting to en_US
14:57:40 <talltyler> Wasteland has destroyed town roads that are not buildable by players
14:58:25 <_glx_> NRT allowed silly stuff 🙂
14:58:44 <peter1138> In 13.4, if the NewGRF prevents towns from building road, it would just ignore it and use the first road type.
14:58:56 <peter1138> In 14.0, if the NewGRF prevents towns from building road, it doesn't build road.
14:59:30 <_glx_> broken NewGRF if it doesn't allow any road for towns
14:59:43 <pickpacket> I’m just now upgrading to 14.0
15:00:30 <LordAro> can we improve the error message?
15:00:38 <pickpacket> Hoping very few will opt in to the survey, so that it’ll look like a large percentage plays with Tea Tea Deluxe 😉
15:00:41 <_glx_> hard to detect the reason I guess
15:01:45 <peter1138> Main issue is it stalls the world gen, as it tries repeatedly to build roads when it will never succeed.
15:01:57 <_glx_> might be possible to detect if there's no buildable roads before generating
15:02:18 <peter1138> Should be possible.
15:02:26 <peter1138> Unless there's a callback involved 🙂
15:02:36 <peter1138> Don't think there is for this bit though.
15:03:56 <truebrain> peter1138: Yes, all content.
15:04:35 <kamnet> AH! It's an issue specific to Wasteland 0.5.0 that didn't exist in 0.4.0. If I load another road set after it, problem goes away.
15:05:27 <truebrain> Why you asked Peter?
15:06:48 <talltyler> Wonder if sittinbythefire is aware of the roadtype issue described above 🙂
15:08:54 <kamnet> I'm sure he will be shortly if he's subscribed to his topic. 🙂
15:14:50 <johnfranklin> I am curious about singularly using AuzRattRoad Pt 3 (only industrial roads)
15:15:09 <johnfranklin> Will it cause problem
15:18:45 <kamnet> Only one way to find out
15:23:21 <merni> peter1138: doesn't it default based on OS language?
15:24:38 <merni> Every computer I've had here has English (US) as OS language for whatever reason even though English (UK) would be closer to correct and English (India) is also available
15:25:09 <merni> So my openttd also was in US english initially until "railroad" pissed me off enough to change it :p
15:32:51 <johnfranklin> What is the main difference of English (India) with other regions? Are there many r -> l, v -> b?
15:33:04 <peter1138> When I ran windows it would periodically reset the keyboard layout to US...
15:33:30 <peter1138> In India they like to use 'revert' incorrectly 😉
15:35:22 <johnfranklin> I think Indian accent is a different thing from English (India)
15:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i think there are key combos to switch between US and local keyboard layout, something like ctrl+lshif and ctrl+rshift?
15:59:21 <peter1138> It wasn't an accidental keypress, it was usually after an update. I no longer run Windows so I don't care.
16:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause> back in the dos days you'd be trained to type "kezb gr" :p
16:01:17 <_glx_> oh of course you have QWERTZ
16:53:31 <merni> peter1138: Yes, to mean "reply" :P
16:54:10 <merni> We have more English speakers than the UK now though
17:00:25 <FLHerne> or did I miss it getting unreverted?
17:07:04 <_glx_> the revert also adds date checks
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18:12:11 <peter1138> I like that Rb has a time machine 🙂
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19:02:01 <frosch123> send your kids to bed:
19:03:55 <truebrain> What is in it .. money or a bomb
19:04:24 <frosch123> it's from the admin, so maybe your new password
19:05:42 <Rubidium> oh yeah, we didn't go passwordless yet :(
19:06:03 *** qwebirc1389 is now known as sketcher
19:06:47 <sketcher> interested for development somethiung special ??
19:07:37 <sketcher> guess please what will happend in some depot will have option development
19:09:40 <sketcher> that why ive about briefcase becasue I'm rerady to make and documentation
19:10:53 <silent_tempest> How do I get my PR merged?
19:11:09 <silent_tempest> I thought I would get access to merge that patch after the approval but I didn't?
19:11:20 <silent_tempest> Or at least I don't know how do it?
19:11:26 <sketcher> press developers will make an federation ranking
19:12:13 <silent_tempest> Okay I was wondering if that might be the case...
19:12:25 <silent_tempest> Now I just wait then?
19:13:16 <sketcher> the you will discovere an power of your computer
19:14:15 <andythenorth> are we in a world of LLMs again?
19:14:20 <andythenorth> no, LLMs are more accurate
19:14:51 <sketcher> call me it is one of your
19:16:38 <truebrain> andythenorth: Nah, just recruitment for another xz attempt I am afraid
19:38:11 <andythenorth> lol took a while to spot the error here ` ground_overlay=config[
19:38:11 <andythenorth> ], # should always be empty sprite for this magic layout
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19:39:12 <andythenorth> (the code used to be in method parameters, I moved it to the method body)
19:40:48 <truebrain> Self approving? 😛 😛
19:45:14 <silent_tempest> Cool thanks! 🙂
19:46:37 <peter1138> Probably broken someone's spacebar.
20:10:17 <peter1138> Hmm, is it too soon for savegame change merges...
20:10:58 <FLHerne> "Good game, excellent value for money." <- I still like the Steam reviews
20:11:15 <kuhnovic> I highly doubt that 😛
20:11:34 <_glx_> ah yeah we're C++20 now
20:11:51 <_glx_> and not all compiler supports all c++20
20:11:51 <kuhnovic> I'll update compiling.md
20:12:07 <kuhnovic> Just don't use all of c++ 20 😛
20:12:24 <_glx_> we had to switch macos CI from 12 to 14
20:12:39 <_glx_> to get a recent enough xcode
20:12:45 <FLHerne> " You know it's good when it's this ugly. " "Great for drowning out the pain of existence! " "good for autism."
20:13:49 <kuhnovic> What's the lowest version of Visual Studio we support? Didn't we ditch VS 2019 recently?
20:14:39 <_glx_> yes VS2022 is the minimum
20:15:52 <kuhnovic> Ah yeah found it, #12254 removed VS2019 support
20:44:51 <andythenorth> so...newgrf industry 'fields' revival?
20:45:15 <andythenorth> then this industry could "plant" bouys and other navigation aids, and maybe seagulls
20:45:26 <andythenorth> but in a way that was over-buildable as needed
20:45:37 <andythenorth> or I could write a GS to do it also
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22:46:20 <happpy6024> Not sure if this is the right place for this if not let me know I will remov it but I like to report a bug in the game we get a lot plsyers get a desync error)
23:09:44 <peter1138> Spot the difference...
23:09:49 <peter1138> But, why is it different?
23:10:51 <truebrain> Because the GRF checks whether it runs in 14, and deactivates itself?
23:12:04 <peter1138> Apparently NewGRFs can tell if they are loaded in the scenario editor or in game.
23:12:14 <peter1138> So this road type is available in scenario editor, but not in game.
23:15:32 <truebrain> I am sure there was a usecase for that. Also sure this was not that 😛
23:16:44 <peter1138> Trying to think of legitimate use-cases...
23:17:05 <_glx_> based on road type name, my guess is in the can't generate town area
23:17:13 <truebrain> But so that GRF behaves the same in 13?
23:18:14 <_glx_> redefining ROAD is bad practice too
23:18:17 <peter1138> No, 13.4 ignores the date restriction.
23:18:33 <truebrain> So a fix broke a grf. Nice
23:19:31 <_glx_> ROAD should always be basic and available
23:20:01 <_glx_> you are free to add anything else
23:20:05 <peter1138> Well this is hidden and not town buildable.
23:20:15 <truebrain> Put a sign in the yard
23:20:21 <peter1138> (Except in scenario editor :))
23:21:14 <_glx_> most vehicles assume ROAD is valid I think
23:21:45 <truebrain> So refuse grfs that don't make ROAD available? 😛
23:22:45 <peter1138> That basically means that towns would only ever build road.
23:22:56 <_glx_> for me this means don't dare touching the defaults
23:23:11 <peter1138> Well it's normal to at least change the graphics...
23:23:33 <_glx_> changing the graphics is fine, not the properties
23:24:46 <_glx_> or at least provide a town buildable type as replacement
23:28:21 <peter1138> I tried to add warning messages like for road vehicles, but of course the map is already aborted before it reaches that :S
23:42:52 <peter1138> Good job we have RCs...
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