IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-03-06
⏴ go to previous day
00:09:53 <michi_cc> orude: Not that you'd see, but I made a Discord announcement 🙂
00:30:16 <peter1138> I copy & pasted it to fosstodon.
00:49:35 *** dwfreed has quit IRC (resistance.oftc.net larich.oftc.net)
00:49:35 *** greeter has quit IRC (resistance.oftc.net larich.oftc.net)
00:51:03 *** greeter has joined #openttd
00:51:03 *** dwfreed has joined #openttd
00:51:10 *** dwfreed has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)
00:51:38 *** dwfreed has joined #openttd
01:54:59 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
02:05:05 *** herms has quit IRC (Quit: bye)
03:46:21 *** debdog has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
03:47:09 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
03:51:36 *** gnu_jj_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
04:40:40 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
05:57:19 <pickpacket> Oh! I thought OpenTTD was closer to 30 years old
05:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, TTO was released in 1994
06:03:56 <pickpacket> yeah, I think in my head I assumed that OpenTTD came soon after that
06:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no, there was TTD and TTDPatch inbetween those
06:14:42 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
06:16:53 <pickpacket> Should I bike to work today? My bike is really starting to break down and the chain hops off at least once during that trip
06:17:17 <pickpacket> I don't even know if you call it a chain in English
06:17:31 *** alfagamma7 has joined #openttd
06:17:31 <alfagamma7> Depends if you can in a hurry
06:18:09 <pickpacket> I think I'll take the bike
06:42:48 *** Leopold___ has joined #openttd
06:49:39 *** Leopold has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
06:57:39 <pickpacket> At the office now!
06:57:52 <pickpacket> they’ve cleared up the roads really well
06:59:10 *** Leopold___ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
06:59:22 *** Leopold has joined #openttd
07:09:26 <rau117> Is there a way to change hotkeys without having to restart the game?
07:15:19 <kuhnovic> pickpacket: Scandinavia? 😉
07:15:57 <pickpacket> kuhnovic: yup :D How'd you guess?
07:16:35 <kuhnovic> Norwegian wife, I know how long the snow lingers over there 😉
07:17:58 <pickpacket> it's too warm here for this time of year
07:18:25 <pickpacket> around 0C for the past couple of weeks. The bike paths are snow/ice free in some parts
07:18:40 <pickpacket> it should be -10C or colder now
07:20:50 <pickpacket> oh no. I just realised the alder trees might start their pollen season early this year. Those bastards.
07:21:27 <kuhnovic> Going for a family visit in two weeks, same where I'm going. No snow fun this year i'm afraid.
07:22:32 <pickpacket> Ah few years ago we had a *really* intense allergy season. I think my system was overloaded then because last year I wasn't much affected despite it apparently being a record year
07:24:43 <truebrain> orudge: Steam post created!
07:25:21 <truebrain> too bad nobody fixed the wiki link to include 13.x 😄
07:33:58 <pickpacket> I actually had a weird dream about OpenTTD last night. I dreamed that I was playing with my ex-wife (who doesn't even play computer games to begin with) and she had downloaded the game from steam and was wondering how to pay for it, assuming that it was some sort of license or subscription fee that she couldn't find info about.
07:41:12 <rutoks> pickpacket: Huh, my guess would be the Netherlands
07:41:53 <pickpacket> rutoks: about my whereabouts?
07:47:33 <reldred> woops, i was deep in backscroll
08:10:17 <kuhnovic> rutoks: I'm in the Netherlands, and it's too warm here, so it was easy to rule that out 😛
08:11:36 <kuhnovic> pickpacket: Oh wow, I wouldn't expect it to be near the 0 degree mark at this time of year
08:12:32 <reldred> i'd say send me some rare volvo bits but y'all are now pillaging the international market you burnt through all your own supplies
08:44:15 <reldred> you're not having my new-in-box snow cap, my estate rear spoiler, or my full set of galaxy's, I don't care how much money you wave at me.
08:50:23 <pickpacket> I drive a crappy Ford Focus and wish that I didn't need a car at all
08:50:32 <pickpacket> it's expensive owning a car
08:52:38 <pickpacket> I've decided to not renew tea-land.eu, btw (not that anyone here knew about it anyway). Still haven't set up that dedicated server for it that I wanted to, and I figure that when I do I can move the site to my own domain instead
10:22:32 <johnfranklin> I still need a coat with thick feather in it (sorry, my English is bad, I don't know if there is a specific word for it)
10:27:31 <belajalilija> johnfranklin: Down
11:31:23 <orudge> Apparently posting a birthday blog post results in an influx of donations
11:40:07 <peter1138> We should have birthdays more often.
11:57:00 <pickpacket> peter1138: a birthday notice every year wouldn't hurt :)
12:39:59 <peter1138> Hmm, there's a custom implementation in fmt/format.h
13:16:29 <_glx_> peter1138: Should be fine once they update the runner images
13:22:24 <peter1138> Any idea when that is?
13:22:38 <peter1138> (Weeks/months/years...)
13:26:18 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Quit: A toaster's basically a soldering iron designed to toast bread)
13:30:26 <peter1138> Yes, it's over, you cannot eat now until dinner time.
13:30:53 <andythenorth> fortunately I was raised northern
13:30:56 <andythenorth> so dinner time is now
13:31:17 <andythenorth> we had school dinners at dinner time
13:31:21 <andythenorth> but I had packed lunch
13:31:26 <andythenorth> so I had lunch at dinner time
13:31:29 <andythenorth> and dinner at tea time
13:31:39 <andythenorth> supper was cereal before bed
13:31:50 <andythenorth> becoming middle class (aka southern) was a culture shock
13:34:16 <_glx_> hmm and replacing `macos-latest` with `macos-14` won't work as we'll need to install vcpkg manually in the new images
13:34:39 <andythenorth> cheese sandwich I think
13:34:51 * andythenorth back to on-topic :P
13:36:44 <pickpacket> breakfast, second breakfast, elevensies, luncheon, afternoon tea, dinner, supper
13:37:50 <andythenorth> anyone know what 'high tea' was?
13:37:54 <andythenorth> google probably does
13:38:52 <pickpacket> google knows f all these days
13:39:17 <pickpacket> "High tea" is an evening meal, sometimes associated with the working class, in particular after sports matches, especially cricket. It is typically eaten between 5 pm and 7 pm. This was also sometimes called a "meat-tea" in the past.
13:57:44 <peter1138> Someone bought biscuits. There are now less biscuits.
14:29:55 <xarick> _glx_: I was in a game, went to AI Settings, Checked for updated, downloaded updates, and this is how it looks now
14:30:32 *** blathijs has joined #openttd
14:30:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o blathijs
14:30:48 <xarick> some are libraries, not even AIs
14:31:23 <_glx_> most likely never tested
14:36:28 <_glx_> oh actually you're lucky it didn't crash
14:40:03 <_glx_> what the AI debug window shows ?
14:46:02 <xarick> the settings don't match the AI that is running
14:51:27 <_glx_> at least click on "show report" before this kind of screenshot
14:53:54 <xarick> I'm going to make an issue
14:57:19 <peter1138> Hmm, loading Opus sound effects is relatively slow.
14:58:58 <xarick> i always forget the name...
15:00:30 <peter1138> ```Original: 2-30µs
15:00:30 <peter1138> OpusSFX: 4000-10000µs```
15:00:48 <peter1138> I guess it does not matter 🙂
15:08:55 <_glx_> oh AI::ResetConfig updates _settings_game, but running scripts use their own local config
15:16:41 <xarick> RIP the game I was testing
16:39:07 *** merni has quit IRC (Quit: User went offline on Discord a while ago)
16:53:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
16:56:14 <_glx_> xarick: you were using random AIs ?
16:57:12 <xarick> oh, maybe I was, the last one
16:57:23 <xarick> the 2 last ones were random
16:57:54 <xarick> ChooChoo and LuDiAI were random
16:58:11 <xarick> or just LuDiAI?, erm bad memory
16:59:54 <xarick> yes, I remember, the last one which is the original LuDiAI is random, all the others were manually picked
17:29:58 <andythenorth> they have a pretty strong stance on edgy or divisive humor on the ottd discord. also the community probably has the highest average age of any video game online, besides maybe doom level editing`
17:30:19 <andythenorth> Doom WAD editing was the other thing I was going to do before I discovered OpenTTD 😛
17:33:41 <talltyler> Can confirm, I’m not a child and have no patience for edgy assholes. Luckily I am not in charge of these things anymore 🙂
17:36:00 <LordAro> andythenorth: uwot m8
17:36:29 <tony_pixel> andythenorth: What's that
17:36:50 <tony_pixel> andythenorth: They forgot quake
17:37:04 <andythenorth> quake editing was never as big as I recall it 😛
17:37:17 <tony_pixel> quake as an online game
17:39:49 <_jgr_> I never really thought of this game as having a "high average age", then again I suppose it may look rather different from the point of view of gaming being Roblox and the like 😛
17:42:07 <tony_pixel> Well, it's from their point of view that's OTTD community is a bunch of 60 year olds making silly little mods for a silly old game
17:43:25 <andythenorth> I mean....everyone over 16 is technically a boomer
17:43:37 *** felix has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
17:43:45 <andythenorth> according to current main discord (and my 12 year old)
17:47:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
17:54:42 *** jepeswe has joined #openttd
17:55:03 <LordAro> leeks? channel for the Welsh
18:18:23 <peter1138> LordAro, it never ends. Cracked nipple on a different wheel...
18:18:29 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:19:31 <peter1138> I guess it's a tiny fix, if I had spares...
18:20:58 <LordAro> i got my winter bike serviced today
18:21:04 <LordAro> naturally most of the moving parts have been replaced
18:24:33 <rutoks> Fefer-IvanviaGitHub: My PR is ready for another round of review.
18:24:55 <rutoks> Ping me if I am being to annoying with my review requests
18:25:30 <rutoks> Also, people with BOT plaque - is this irc transport or something?
18:29:39 *** clark_l has joined #openttd
18:29:39 <clark_l> Hello. Please can someone help me find the section of code that calculates or sets the ratio of received to produced goods for secondary industries. Thanks.
18:30:30 <andythenorth> industry_cmd.cpp
18:33:49 <FLHerne> clark_l: for standard industries, or a newgrf?
18:34:07 <FLHerne> rutoks: BOT is the IRC bridge, yes
18:34:25 <clark_l> andythenorth: Thanks I’ll take a look
18:34:40 <clark_l> FLHerne: Just standard for now.
18:37:24 <FLHerne> clark_l: I think you want table/build_industry.h
18:38:47 <FLHerne> particularly the horrible thing from line 1088
18:39:29 <FLHerne> changing the defaults is unlikely to be accepted upstream, just make a grf
18:40:04 <clark_l> Thanks. Just trying to understand the game mechanics rather than developing for now.
18:40:10 <FLHerne> (it'll be less horrible than playing with the the ancient TTD implementation anyway)
18:40:40 <clark_l> Some might say that section of code is beautiful
19:08:53 <michi_cc> So, apparently we are now also ruining this Discord with constant announcements 😛
19:13:28 <Rubidium> so, don't announce the next releases?
19:22:18 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
19:35:59 <rutoks> FLHerne: Okay, is there a person who knows what the hell is written there?
19:36:34 <rutoks> Well, I guess it can be parsed given time
19:39:00 <FLHerne> it's just defining hardcoded IndustrySpec values
19:39:37 <FLHerne> the formatting is a bit crazy
19:41:50 <LordAro> think of it as a really ugly constructor
19:42:04 <FLHerne> if you look at `git blame` you'll see no-one has touched this meaningfully in 15 years or so
19:42:05 <LordAro> tbh it probably could be a constructor
19:42:10 <FLHerne> very early days of OTTD
19:42:45 <FLHerne> it's basically a pile of arbitrary constants inherited directly from original TTD
19:43:13 <FLHerne> no-one cares about it because any new industry behaviour is done by NewGRF and bypasses it
19:49:25 <andythenorth> base content grf type
19:50:05 <locosage> clark_l: for default industries the ratio is always 1:1
19:59:42 <xarick> Looking at CheckShipReverse vs ChooseShipTrack got me wondering, why don't they return the same paths, provided the ship doesn't reverse
20:37:51 <truebrain> michi_cc: wait till they find out more are coming 😛
20:44:07 <truebrain> orudge: Post already had 14,000 unique views; which is a lot more than the blog posts have been doing 😛 And it hasn't even been on HN!
20:46:26 *** xarothbrook has joined #openttd
20:46:26 <xarothbrook> xarick: holy light-mode batman O_O
20:47:42 <xarothbrook> Also, Win+Shift+S gets you snipping tool, lets you snip the relevant parts of the screen before posting 😛
20:53:32 *** salut3585 has quit IRC (Quit: User went offline on Discord a while ago)
20:58:11 <andythenorth> what visual effect do we have for hydrogen vehicles?
21:02:07 <_zephyris> andythenorth: Steam
21:02:11 <jfs> water is a product of hydrogen fuel cells, so that must mean steam
21:02:39 <jfs> (actually, just "no effect" is probably most appropriate)
21:03:08 <andythenorth> it's the main reason I haven't added any 😛
21:05:26 <_zephyris> (in reality, the exhaust is hot enough and low enough in water vapour that you wouldn't normally see it... After all, petrol engines produce about as much water vapour as carbon dioxide, but you don't see it. It's only under condensing conditions that you do see the water vapour, which is why contrails)
21:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like you carry 15t of water with you, like a steam engine
21:15:09 *** Leopold has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:25:50 <xarick> TileIndex next_tile; is initialized with value = 0
21:27:11 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:27:12 <Rubidium> what would you expect?
21:28:45 <Rubidium> or am I missing some context?!?
21:29:12 <xarick> was hoping for INVALID_TILE
21:29:54 <xarick> ```TileIndex next_tile;
21:29:54 <xarick> const Trackdir td = v->GetVehicleTrackdir(&next_tile);```
21:30:41 <xarick> if GetVehicleTrackdir doesn't touch next_tile, next_tile is 0
21:31:27 <LordAro> so initialise TileIndex ?
21:32:01 <LordAro> however out params are usually "touched" regardless
21:33:06 <Rubidium> sounds like you want to return a std::pair though
21:33:43 <LordAro> alternatively, set next_tile yourself at the start of GetVehicleTrackdir
21:34:33 <Rubidium> ... and structured bindings
21:36:23 <xarick> gonna do this differently
21:36:31 <xarick> use TrackFollower instead
21:37:52 <kuhnovic> If you're doing that to ensure you can actually enter that tile: good. If you're doing it just because you need to know the next tile/trackdir, then that's excessive
21:38:50 <klote> Hi is there a reason why my dedicated server loses connection with game server host?
21:39:03 <klote> i had to type text in the cli in order for it to reconnect
21:39:21 <klote> The system was active and never lost internet
21:42:10 <xarick> kuhnovic: I'm trying to match the path found by FindNearestDepot to that of ChooseShipTrack
21:43:13 <xarick> looks like a difficult task though
21:43:35 <xarick> ship can be in any position, sub tile, aqueduct, etc...
21:44:32 <xarick> leaving a station when next order is go to nearest depot is the most complex case
21:45:40 <xarick> it calls FindNearestDepot, whatever this returns, it then calls CheckShipReverse, once that's done, it does ChooseShipTrack
21:46:20 <Rubidium> klote: there is a reason. As far as I am aware it should reconnect automatically when the connection gets lost, so something is preventing that. I have no idea what. I seem to remember hearing similar issues before. I also seem to remember that none of the developers has been able to reproduce it yet, which makes finding the underlying reason and solving the issue almost impossible
21:47:06 <kuhnovic> Keep in mind that CheckShipReverse uses the ship's current tile as a starting tile. ChooseShipTrack actually uses the tile that's the ship is about to enter. Subtle but annoying difference that managed to bite me many times.
21:49:27 <_glx_> Rubidium: all we know is a possible race condition, but without being able to reproduce it's hard to trace
21:51:19 <xarick> CheckShipReverse already does not match ChooseShipTrack
21:51:34 <xarick> perhaps I should fix that one first
21:53:55 <_glx_> klote: if it happens "easily" for you, logs with `-d net=6` could help
21:54:25 <kuhnovic> xarick: I've been working on a patch that does that. It's not as easy as it looks.
21:55:43 <_glx_> I don't think the server runs with `-d net=6` by default
21:58:16 <Rubidium> note that that -d net=6 must be after -D, so openttd -D -d net=6
21:58:29 <klote> i will restart the server and apply -d net-6 to it
21:58:51 <_glx_> you can set it while it's running (in the console)
22:02:50 <klote> did that not really producing any logs
22:03:22 <_glx_> it outputs stuff when it needs to
22:04:21 <_glx_> default is level 3 for dedicated servers
22:04:41 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:04:45 <klote> server not showing up at all
22:08:08 <_glx_> oh and 13.4 it seems, so no timestamps by default
22:10:14 <klote> adding -d net=6 to the start parameter works
22:10:45 <_glx_> "Sending server..." is a net=6 message
22:11:25 <klote> so server loses connection cant reconnect
22:12:36 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:17:23 <_glx_> you should see this line every 30s
22:17:56 <klote> wondering if the game script is causing the crash
22:18:21 <_glx_> game script runs in a sandbox
22:19:09 <klote> Sorry not a coder 😛 what does that mean?
22:19:24 <klote> That it wont crash entire server if game script crashes?
22:20:09 <_glx_> it can't crash the game itself
22:21:16 *** Leopold_ has joined #openttd
22:21:26 <_glx_> oh that could be your issue
22:22:01 <klote> but that shouldnt disconnect me from the server :/
22:24:57 <_glx_> truebrain: would know better than me, but I think you also need `gui.show_date_in_logs` set to true (so there is a timecode, which is helpful when trying to match events on the backend)
22:26:50 <truebrain> _glx_: Why would this be a backend issue? 🙂 GC connection is clearly established, STUN is clearly working .. seems not related to anything in the backend 🙂
22:27:25 <_glx_> yeah and the server is still visible in the list I guess
22:28:32 <klote> semdomg server atleast i cant see it unless you guys have a different server list
22:29:11 <_glx_> what is current value for `server_game_type` ?
22:29:48 <klote> eh help me here what do i look at?
22:30:09 <klote> typing server_game_type in cli doesnt do anything
22:30:13 <_glx_> `set server_game_type` in the console I think
22:31:16 <_glx_> hmm so it should be visible
22:31:26 <klote> it was until i got disconnected
22:32:29 <klote> i dint have this issue yesterday this is strange
22:32:52 <_glx_> `set server_game_type 0` followed by `set server_game_type 1` should restore
22:34:46 <klote> Does the turn-2 thing kick you offline if dedicated server connect via ip
22:39:12 <klote> Il keep an eye on it gonna go to bed
23:08:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:11:43 <xarick> ship made a 180 degree
23:12:43 <xarick> FindNearestDepot path is in mauve, CheckShipReverse however disagrees
23:13:33 <xarick> ChooseShipTrack agrees with the path given by CheckShipReverse in this instance
23:15:13 <xarick> CheckShipReverse in red
23:15:29 <xarick> this is after the fix I have
23:15:39 <xarick> because it was also not matching the white path
23:22:46 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
continue to next day ⏵
