IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-02-09
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00:14:48 <_glx_> but it's automatically transformed into suggested change
00:21:12 <peter1138[d]> Yeah, I didn't know anyone could do that 🙂
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00:59:32 <peter1138[d]> Blames keyboard...
02:13:02 <merni> Yeah I am certainly used to the narrow spacers and think they look way better
02:13:36 <merni> Perfectly replicating TTD doesn't need to be the goal for the GUI
02:26:12 <merni> I guess it is currently 1/6 width. Seems quite visible (not "barely visible") to me, but a little increase wouldn't be too bad. The proposed solution makes them much wider than necessary imo.
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08:32:12 <andythenorth> I probably have lunch admin to do
08:34:16 <andythenorth> might have cornflakes
08:36:42 <peter1138[d]> Bit bare on foods, I have bread or porridge.
08:37:02 <andythenorth> those are the basics though
08:42:32 <LordAro> andythenorth: how about bread AND porridge?
08:46:54 <andythenorth> porridge sandwich
08:47:06 <andythenorth> I am going to venture out of bed and look for food
08:47:25 <truebrain> good luck, don't get lost
08:48:26 <andythenorth> I will let you know if I am
08:48:35 <andythenorth> you can send a rescue
08:50:01 <LordAro> i'll keep an eye on local Bristol news
08:50:10 <LordAro> "wild animal spotted roaming the streets"
08:50:25 <truebrain> "stay indoors, do not attempt to communicate, call the police" 😛
08:50:42 <LordAro> "may be able to distract with pixels"
08:51:46 <andythenorth> LordAro: I’m only going as far as my kitchen
08:53:51 <LordAro> getting lost may cause you to travel in random directions
08:54:01 <LordAro> and then who knows where you'll end up
09:16:29 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, can't find firmware :S
09:17:08 <peter1138[d]> My standby keyboard has a crunchy F-key after something fell on it.
09:48:04 <truebrain> that is the most pedantic ticket I have seen in a while 😄 I love it 🙂
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10:22:39 <merni> 1/4 looks fine, though frankly, the current setup (1/6?) looks even better :p
10:28:11 <merni> It's worth noting that from all the screenshots I see the toolbar in TTD filled the whole window width
10:28:23 <merni> Which is not the case in openttd in general
10:28:57 <merni> So TTD might have used wider-than-necessary spacers just to achieve that, which is not something openttd intends to achieve at all
10:29:17 <reldred> in ttdpatch you could set custom resolutions
10:29:36 <merni> reldred: yes, and it seems to have been made so the toolbar filled all 640px
10:30:06 <merni> if the spacers had been smaller that wouldn't have happened
10:30:12 <merni> or they would have had to add another button :p
10:57:58 <peter1138[d]> Spacers are smaller because we added the fast-forward button.
10:58:11 <peter1138[d]> Then we make everything scalable and that kept the smaller spacers.
10:58:57 <peter1138[d]> Then we added 3 more buttons since (goals, story book, and trams)
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11:56:57 <nanapipirara> peter1138[d]: I would personally like to see a button to open the Transparency Options window. It’s often quite important during gameplay and its current main way of opening the window is located in an awkward unintuitive dropdown menu.
11:58:26 <nanapipirara> There’s probably a keyboard shortcut though?
11:58:38 <Eddi|zuHause> ctrl+x i believe
11:58:57 <peter1138[d]> I didn't even know there was a menu option for a long time 🙂
11:59:30 <nanapipirara> Yeah. Its location does not make much sense
11:59:45 <merni> which menu would you put it under?
11:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i just had a mild chuckle about "peterd", it sounded too close to "petert" :p
12:00:02 <nanapipirara> merni: Its own button 😅
12:00:23 <nanapipirara> Most buttons are for opening specific windows
12:00:35 <nanapipirara> Makes the most sense to me
12:00:36 <peter1138[d]> I didn't think viewport transparency is that important.
12:00:50 <peter1138[d]> Most buttons have menus under them.
12:00:52 <merni> nanapipirara: Not really, most of them have dropdowns
12:01:03 <merni> especially the most important one -- the rail button :p
12:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> well, our UI has plenty of unintuitiveness
12:02:30 <nanapipirara> Does ottd have a set of design pillars written up?
12:02:46 <merni> I think the only buttons without meaningful dropdowns are subsidies, waterway construction, airport construction, and music
12:03:03 <merni> and of course there are some more which have dropdowns of company lists, which are not useful in single player
12:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> probably, but if it does, it probably has multiple conflicting ones
12:03:31 <nanapipirara> merni: 🗺️ also (I think)
12:03:36 <peter1138[d]> Subsides and Town still bring up a menu... with 1 item.
12:03:45 <peter1138[d]> Map has 4 menu items.
12:03:46 <merni> nanapipirara: Nah, that has the cargo flow graph etc
12:04:14 <nanapipirara> Shows what I know 😜
12:04:34 <nanapipirara> Well, at least now I ctrl-X
12:05:23 <peter1138[d]> Most of the time I never touch all those options, and just toggle with X.
12:06:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, just set up the preferred locks once, and just X
12:07:10 <peter1138[d]> Oh that also might be a thing you don't know... you can press ctrl to lock transparency.
12:08:59 <peter1138[d]> That's why it's treated more like a settings section... it looks like a toolbar but really you just set your whatever you prefer and then hardly use it again.
12:09:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole game is a fractal of unintuitiveness
12:09:47 <peter1138[d]> If you know it, it's convenient. If you don't know it, you ... can look at tooltips and you might figure it out, but...
12:16:14 <nanapipirara> Tooltips dont show shortcuts though?
12:16:41 <peter1138[d]> True. They do usually show extra things Ctrl does though.
12:16:58 <peter1138[d]> But that Ctrl-Click rather than hotkeys.
12:25:27 <rau117> it will give at least some hints
12:29:32 <rau117> although even knowing all the hotkeys, you still have to do some actions using the mouse
12:29:32 <rau117> citymania client adds even more hotkeys, but it is only available on stable versions
12:31:33 <emperorjake> nanapipirara: :gui_map: We have dedicated emojis for these 😉
12:32:35 <emperorjake> The :gui_map: button has lots of dropdown options btw
12:37:30 <peter1138[d]> Should be updated with OpenGFX 2 Hi Def icons 🙂
12:42:24 <_zephyris> Should be updated with SVGs 😉
12:43:04 <peter1138[d]> Do you have SVGs of them all now? 🙂
12:45:18 <andythenorth> Mac players crowdfund a developer mac?
12:45:25 <_zephyris> It's on the todo list, but I was waiting to see if svg spritesheets might be a possibility!
12:51:32 <peter1138[d]> OpenTTD-side spritesheets would be quite inefficient. The renderer would have to process every object every time it wants to render (into a cached sprite, so not every time its drawn) a small section of the svg.
12:52:28 <peter1138[d]> GRF-compiler spritesheets would require the compiler to understand svg, work out which parts are outside the rectangle and then produce an optimised svg for each sprite.
12:59:36 <truebrain> ah, yes, the imfamous memoryleaks when closing down an application
13:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause> well, maybe quitting the application fails somehow :p
13:03:52 <peter1138[d]> Might be a problem on an Amiga.
13:04:52 <truebrain> if any OS doesn't free all memory allocated to an application on exit, that sounds like an OS issue 😛
13:14:03 <truebrain> what puzzled me a bit at first, is that the OP of 12040 has all the SDL repos forked and pinned on its page. So I was afraid we missed something .. but no, SDL really takes care of it correctly
13:15:29 <truebrain> even in his MorphOS port it does; good 🙂
13:18:01 <merni> hm, why do english UK news messages mention "citizens celebrate... first truck" rather than "lorry"
13:18:21 <merni> in general en-uk seems to be split between truck and lorry
13:19:43 <LordAro> UK English itself is fairly loose with the distinction
13:19:47 <truebrain> when in doubt, blame TTD 🙂
13:23:52 <peter1138[d]> The vehicles are called "xxx Truck" too
13:24:20 <truebrain> spacers in the toolbar need fixing, and this is fine .. so inconsistent 😛
13:24:49 <peter1138[d]> They're "xxx Truck" in TTD, therefore it's fine. It's consistent with TTD.
13:25:17 <peter1138[d]> Spacers don't need fixing. But they way they are allocated right now feels very accidental.
13:26:55 <peter1138[d]> Eh, not my post, the thread 🙂
13:27:59 <truebrain> if only we had a COMPILING.md explaining how to work with cmake 🙂
13:28:06 <xarick> peter1138[d]: what do I need to test on 12035?
13:28:28 <peter1138[d]> Nothing, it's largely irrelevant.
13:29:05 <peter1138[d]> (When I mentioned you I'd forgotten that that stuff is only used by NewGRFs anyway)
13:29:49 <peter1138[d]> truebrain: It's not so much the how... but "why did you do this!?"
13:30:06 <truebrain> I think he is also still using IRC 🙂
13:33:57 <LordAro> "Use: Library function to do .... Returns non-zero on error, else zero if OK" .... `if (err_code != 0) { printf(...); exit(1); } return 0;`
13:34:46 <truebrain> "returns" in the most liberal way of the word 🙂
13:35:04 <truebrain> I really hope that snippet is in the `main()` 🙂
13:36:44 <truebrain> that must have been an interesting bug to hunt down 😛 But more to the point: who reviewed that?!
13:36:51 <peter1138[d]> library functions that call `exit()` are always fun too.
13:37:00 <LordAro> truebrain: "reviewed"
13:37:32 <LordAro> however, the exit() is incidental, i was just checking the function arguments
13:37:41 <LordAro> apparently it never actually fails :D
13:41:03 <LordAro> oh, and the corresponding function returns a pointer to a global 8MB array
13:41:14 <truebrain> sounds like you are having fun 🙂
13:53:01 <truebrain> "Basismuziek", holy crap, that is a shitty translation 😛 (sorry)
13:53:14 <truebrain> and this is why I never play games in Dutch
13:54:20 <xarick> I don't play games in portuguese, unless the game was originally portuguese
13:54:25 <LordAro> be the change you want to see in the world
13:54:37 <xarick> more often than not, it's brazillian portuguese
13:54:51 <xarick> or a pseudo attempt at translating
13:56:04 <truebrain> lol; ah, yes, music, the shit that needs extraction before it works 🙂
13:56:23 <peter1138[d]> Did you remove extraction? :p
13:56:29 <truebrain> _glx_: possibly the change that made tar-folders actually work made this break; might be worth checking out 🙂
13:56:40 <_glx_> extraction is partial, it creates the folder
13:59:06 <_glx_> let's try after and before
13:59:51 <peter1138[d]> (const char *) 0x00007fffd90631e0 "/home/petern/.local/share/openttd/content_download/baseset/486f6c69-holiday_island_music_pack-1.2.tar/holiday_island_music_pack-1.2/anotrian.mid"
14:00:02 <peter1138[d]> It's trying to extra to that.
14:00:12 <truebrain> and that folder is not created first 🙂
14:00:26 <peter1138[d]> holiday_island_music_pack-1.2 is.
14:00:33 <peter1138[d]> But 486f6c69... isn't.
14:00:37 <truebrain> yeah, this is the commit to make tar-folder useful 🙂
14:00:48 <truebrain> well, the ticket said it was a simple change 😛
14:02:58 <peter1138[d]> [2024-02-09 14:02:20] dbg: [misc:4] Found tar '/home/petern/.local/share/openttd/content_download/baseset/486f6c69-Holiday_Island_Music_Pack-1.2.tar' with 12 new files
14:02:58 <peter1138[d]> [2024-02-09 14:02:20] dbg: [misc:8] Extracting /home/petern/.local/share/openttd/content_download/baseset/486f6c69-Holiday_Island_Music_Pack-1.2.tar to directory /home/petern/.local/share/openttd/content_download/baseset/holiday_island_music_pack-1.2/
14:02:58 <peter1138[d]> [2024-02-09 14:02:20] dbg: [misc:9] extracting /home/petern/.local/share/openttd/content_download/baseset/486f6c69-holiday_island_music_pack-1.2.tar/holiday_island_music_pack-1.2/anotrian.mid
14:02:58 <peter1138[d]> [2024-02-09 14:02:20] dbg: [misc:6] Extracting /home/petern/.local/share/openttd/content_download/baseset/486f6c69-holiday_island_music_pack-1.2.tar/holiday_island_music_pack-1.2/anotrian.mid failed; could not open /home/petern/.local/share/openttd/content_download/baseset/486f6c69-holiday_island_music_pack-1.2.tar/holiday_island_music_pack-1.2/anotrian.mid
14:03:06 <peter1138[d]> Proper log as I realised it has debug messages lol
14:03:51 <peter1138[d]> `486f6c69-holiday_island_music_pack-1.2.tar` can't be a directory, of course, because it's the file 🙂
14:04:41 <truebrain> I regret implementing that very old ticket 😛
14:05:09 <_glx_> I don't see .tar in baseset folder, even before the change
14:05:31 <truebrain> might be in a tempory folder, or even in memory
14:05:36 <truebrain> as we need to extract it anyway
14:05:56 <truebrain> so in that case you might get away with just creating the right folders there 🙂
14:06:53 <peter1138[d]> I don't see anything in `FioFOpenFileTar()` that fakes a file with an in-memory file.
14:07:25 <_glx_> ExtractTar(fname, BASESET_DIR);
14:08:22 <peter1138[d]> Yes, it's deleted straight after.
14:08:27 <_glx_> so the tar is removed after extraction
14:09:15 <peter1138[d]> ExtractTar returns false if it false, but the only caller doesn't check the response 🙂
14:09:28 <_glx_> do we scan the tar before trying to extract it ?
14:13:04 <truebrain> never knew a beta could be so useful 😄
14:13:13 <truebrain> with enough new features, people want to play it 😄
14:24:37 <LordAro> you mean the hack to make people test betas is to add things they want to test?
14:28:39 <_glx_> seems opening the file inside the tar is fine, the problem is the output file
14:28:53 <peter1138[d]> The log shows that.
14:29:07 <peter1138[d]> It's extracting to the wrong place.
14:31:57 <_glx_> std::string filename = tar_filename;
14:31:57 <_glx_> auto p = filename.find_last_of(PATHSEPCHAR);
14:31:57 <_glx_> /* The file's path does not have a separator? */
14:31:57 <_glx_> if (p == std::string::npos) return false;
14:31:57 <_glx_> filename.replace(p + 1, std::string::npos, dirname);
14:33:05 <LordAro> something something std::filesystem something something?
14:33:27 <_glx_> it used to replace "tarfilename.tar" with "tarfilename", but now it's "tarfilename.tarPATHSEPtarfilename"
14:36:22 <LordAro> std::filesystem probably not helpful then :D
14:40:17 <_glx_> ha no it's ` filename.replace(p + 1, std::string::npos, it2.first);` filename was fine, the it2.first now has the tar name as prefix
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16:34:39 <MrDowntempo> Hello! Get reacquainted again with OpenTTD and some of its new settings (or at least stuff I don't remember from last time!) I was wondering (and couldn't find specifics online) what makes Better Raods version of the Road Layout for new towns, does 'better' than the original?
16:34:44 <xarick> trying to figure out why my GS is taking so long to start
16:36:02 <merni> > the difference between "original" and "improved" is the minimum distance between parallel roads. original checks whether parallel roads would be next to each other, and then allows/disallows construction of that road in the automatic town expansion algorithm. this results in (usually) 1x1, 1x2 and 2x2 blocks. if ever a 3x2 or 3x3 block forms, it may cut through with another road in the middle
16:38:03 <MrDowntempo> Thank you @merni!
16:38:23 <_glx_> xarick: GS is allowed 2500 ticks at the end of mapgen
16:39:24 <_glx_> but it can exit earlier by sleeping
16:39:39 <johnfranklin> When did atrocious become appalling?
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16:41:00 <merni> atrocious is in English (US), appalling is in English (UK)
16:44:16 <Rubidium> it never did, and American only adopted it in March of 2014
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16:50:59 <talltyler> truebrain: Do we need to supply Steam images for dev diary blog posts?
16:51:31 <talltyler> I’d like to get mine out today, so we can do a Friday schedule until release (also on a Friday)
16:51:57 <talltyler> Unless anyone thinks another day of the week is better for engagement or whatever
16:52:16 <truebrain> Release would be a monday not?
16:52:38 <truebrain> Anyway, an image would be really nice, yes
16:53:50 <talltyler> lol, I was looking at March 1st 🥇
16:54:06 <talltyler> So, what day of the week shall we publish? 😛
16:54:26 <talltyler> I can make you an image
16:54:49 <truebrain> Not fuzzed about it, "in the weekend" works for me
16:55:19 <talltyler> Let’s do Saturday then
17:04:50 <truebrain> Just when you feel it is ready 🙂
17:08:23 <peter1138[d]> Uh, why are my spokes all loose...
17:11:08 <xarick> industry window viewport does a tilt movement
17:11:14 <xarick> when you click on an industry
17:15:33 <_glx_> oh no conflicts in at least 2 PRs with that 🙂
17:21:28 <talltyler> Post is ready, just needs approval 🙂
17:21:36 <frosch123> stop queueing so much stuff, we can't even approve translators anymore :p
17:22:09 <talltyler> Then the font post goes next week
17:24:27 <talltyler> If 12045 isn’t a player-facing fix, would it be a `Cleanup`? I missed most of that discussion the other day 🙂
17:26:11 <_glx_> but Cleanup is fine too in this case
17:26:26 <truebrain> We can fix that when squashing
17:27:24 <_glx_> the important part is Fix and Change are picked by the script and end up in the changelog, as I understand it
17:27:57 <_glx_> yeah that too of course
17:28:26 <talltyler> truebrain: Yep, I’m asking because I’m enabling auto merge 🙂
17:32:42 <xarick> but the message is not yet up on discord
17:33:39 <_glx_> yeah too much stuff running so the bot needs to wait
17:36:22 <truebrain> Noooooo, you murdered my spacebar heater .. I liked how they got stuck!!! 😛
17:37:36 <frosch123> get a capslock heater instead. press once to toggle, no need to hold down spacebar all day long
17:37:56 <truebrain> \o/ was not in the tooltip
17:39:36 <xarick> someone with && || == != expertise to solve that PR?
17:40:17 <LordAro> xarick: i don't think there's an issue there
17:40:24 <LordAro> at least, it's not correct that it doesn't match the code
17:40:56 <LordAro> although it's definitely confusing to have two preconditions start with opposing conditions
17:41:15 <frosch123> talltyler: if you were german, you would have used the term "pofalla wende" in your blog
17:41:33 <LordAro> though i do think that the conditions could be cleaned up
17:41:35 <frosch123> sadly there appears to be no wiki page to link
17:42:41 <talltyler> English language Google has nothing to say about that
17:42:49 <_glx_> preconditions don't always need to exactly match the code how they are done in the code
17:44:03 <frosch123> talltyler: Ronald Pofalla is a former infrastructure minister, who became infamous for introducing the "skip stops"/"reverse early" to german railway
17:44:25 <talltyler> Ah, that’s why his name came up 😄
17:49:28 <xarick> oh, that looks clearer
18:16:35 <frosch123> hmm cheats save/load is weird. there is no trace of the old/removed switch-landscape cheat
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18:24:04 <frosch123> ah, the format was changed at some point. the build-in-pause and switch-landscape cheats are only in `_cheats_sl_compat`
18:24:34 <frosch123> funny that "disable elrail" was considered a cheat :p
18:32:34 <truebrain> The cheat blob is a mess 😛
18:36:02 <frosch123> oh dear, what mess did i get into
18:36:21 <frosch123> my plan was to remove the cheats saveload stuff, and instead log it in the gamelog, just like settings
18:36:39 <frosch123> turns out: there was already stuff for logging cheats in the gamelog, except its incomplete/broken
18:36:47 <frosch123> and the settings logging also seems to be broken :p
18:37:07 <truebrain> depth-first problem solving 😉
18:37:46 <Rubidium> isn't that what we always run into ;(
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18:38:12 <_bouke_> andythenorth: the Mac is back
18:53:01 <_bouke_> Oh wow didn't see the replies on the blurry text issue, so no compiling for me tonight
19:00:12 <truebrain> just a suggestion; open for other ideas 🙂
19:00:17 <truebrain> but `Fix` is clearly not working 😛
19:01:11 <truebrain> was way too difficult when creating the changelog to figure out what kind of fix those entries were 🙂
19:01:28 <truebrain> pretty sure we still forgot to remove a few 😄
19:02:02 <truebrain> and absolutely no clue if 12046 is a good idea; but we were talking about it the other day, so .. just something to think about 🙂
19:05:08 <locosage> "codefix" is very unclear, for the changelog it can just be a label
19:05:59 <truebrain> I always love those extreme words .. "very" unclear. I am sure NOBODY understands what we mean with it. It is like THAT unclear. Please.
19:05:59 <truebrain> And good luck adding a label to a commit, not sure how you plan to do that 😉
19:06:02 <truebrain> talltyler: that is not tomorrow 🙂
19:06:19 <talltyler> Uh wait I thought it only showed up at the scheduled time
19:06:28 <truebrain> website needs to rebuild for that
19:06:32 <truebrain> so that will happen after tomorrow's nightly now
19:06:44 <truebrain> there is nothing dynamic about our website 🙂 Full static HTML
19:06:53 <talltyler> Hmm, what should I do now?
19:07:04 <truebrain> sit in the corner and think about what you did 😛
19:07:16 <Rubidium> get a thick Aussie accent ;)
19:07:16 <truebrain> either we trigger a rebuild somewhere tomorrow
19:07:22 <truebrain> or we wait for the nightly 🙂
19:07:56 <talltyler> It looks live already for me
19:08:06 <truebrain> that shouldn't happen 😄
19:08:12 <truebrain> it never does that when I want it to 😛
19:08:28 <talltyler> Multiple browsers, so it should t be cached
19:08:36 <truebrain> it is actually published; really odd
19:08:45 <locosage> truebrain: i dunno that nobody guy but I sure don't :p boundary between fixes and changes is already pretty blurred and you add something that is both
19:08:46 <frosch123> Codefeature: switch to C++20
19:08:49 <truebrain> you pre-date something now 🙂
19:09:02 <truebrain> frosch123: now you are getting it 🙂
19:09:34 <truebrain> locosage: hahaha, we had `Changes` and `Fixes` for years, and now all of a sudden it is unclear? Please, use arguments if you don't agree. But these are just words
19:09:43 <_jgr_> locosage: You can just take it is a fix that users needn't care about
19:10:14 <truebrain> I am shocked talltyler that is actually published 😄 I really wonder why it doesn't most of the time, and now it did 😛 Maybe because it is tomorrow somewhere?
19:10:17 <talltyler> Lol, future date doesn’t show up as the preview but does for the live site, that’s crazy 😄
19:10:51 <truebrain> that is even weirder, given they both build the same way
19:11:12 <truebrain> 2 options: just take it for what it is, and run with it
19:11:15 <truebrain> or make a PR to change the date
19:11:23 <truebrain> I really can't be bothered by a wrong-dated blog, honestly
19:12:02 <locosage> truebrain: discussions on what prefix to use happen pretty often on both github and here
19:12:12 <locosage> wouldn't be the case it it was clear :p
19:13:03 <truebrain> I don't understand Jekyll 😦
19:13:44 <truebrain> the exact same code was executed
19:13:47 <truebrain> like .. it was identical
19:14:04 <truebrain> ah, no, it was also visible in the preview
19:14:11 <LordAro> timezone of the runner?
19:14:32 <truebrain> I do tell Jekyll to publish blogs, even if they are in the future, it seems
19:14:42 <truebrain> so I think it is more a question why the other day some of these future-dated posts were not showing up
19:14:56 <truebrain> okay; unexpected, but I am sure we did that as we were annoyed by this before 😛
19:16:13 <frosch123> maybe also say "player" instead of "user"
19:16:27 <frosch123> hmm, what about scenario editor?
19:16:34 <LordAro> except that doesn't cover script devs
19:17:10 <frosch123> that's the idea 🙂 distingiush players from other users
19:17:21 <truebrain> frosch123: I replaced all `AI` / `GS` in the changelog to `Script`, so not everyone does; let's write it down too!
19:17:31 <LordAro> hadn't actually looked at your comment before writing that :)
19:18:01 <frosch123> don't worry, i'll bank a "i do not read backlog" for me
19:18:30 <truebrain> hmm, don't want to spend 3 lines in the PR template about NewGRFs .. let's see ...
19:22:05 <truebrain> something like this, I guess
19:23:53 <truebrain> talltyler: I think ^^ is the cleanest solution here 🙂
19:24:30 <talltyler> That is truly the simplest solution
19:24:54 <truebrain> some RSS feed users will be angry
19:24:56 <talltyler> I imagine that doesn’t hide my post until tomorrow?
19:25:11 <_zephyris> truebrain: RSS has users?
19:25:15 <truebrain> it just won't automagically appear 🙂
19:25:35 <truebrain> has for ... 20 years now 😛
19:26:48 <truebrain> talltyler: and your post is gone 🙂
19:27:31 <frosch123> did you leave out "Remove" intentionally?
19:27:32 <talltyler> Yep. Does it show up automatically at midnight?
19:27:41 <truebrain> frosch123: from the Pull Request template? yes.
19:27:53 <truebrain> talltyler: no, I have said that in different ways now. It does not.
19:28:01 <truebrain> our website is a static HTML page; it needs to be published
19:28:05 <truebrain> which happens when the nightly builds
19:28:09 <truebrain> (or when you merge something)
19:28:09 <talltyler> So what do I need to do tomorrow?
19:28:19 <talltyler> Just wait for the nightly to build?
19:28:24 <truebrain> that is the easiest
19:28:31 <truebrain> and if we want it earlier .. I am sure I left a button somewhere to press
19:28:38 <talltyler> Gotcha, I remember something about making tags in the past
19:28:47 <truebrain> no, I removed all that nonsesnse 🙂
19:28:48 <frosch123> hmm, do we need "Coderevert"?
19:29:08 <truebrain> frosch123: I was thinking about that, and realised it is most likely a Codechange or a Codefix at that point
19:29:12 <truebrain> we revert so rarely
19:29:30 <truebrain> reason I left Remove out of the list of PR btw, is that otherwise it gets a very long list, and it is really rare we remove anything.
19:29:43 <truebrain> but that is just a judgement call on my end; I am have issues adding it
19:29:52 <frosch123> are "Doc" changes player-facing?
19:30:07 <truebrain> good question; they are a bit all over the place
19:30:18 <truebrain> most of them were for our `docs` folder
19:30:20 <truebrain> so I went with player-facing
19:30:27 <frosch123> i think it's mostly comments and/or add-on API docs
19:30:50 <truebrain> we rarely use `Docs` for comments, I have noticed
19:31:16 <truebrain> in fact, the biggest user of `Doc` is the changelog 😛
19:31:56 <truebrain> possible with this change we also consider changing comments just a `Codechange` 🙂
19:32:07 <frosch123> oh, you explicitly list "wrong comments" under "codefix"
19:32:17 <frosch123> so, they are officially no "doc"
19:32:36 <truebrain> I had a commit like earlier about wrong savegame revision in mind when I wrote that; but I guess you are right 🙂
19:34:03 <frosch123> when referencing commits, i never know how many hexdigits to use 🙂
19:34:11 <truebrain> so, give a number .. 8?
19:35:00 <truebrain> will also rename `revision` into `hash`, as .. we are not Subversion anymore 😛
19:35:02 <frosch123> github usually shows 7
19:35:22 <frosch123> may be easier to copy/paste from github, if we use the same
19:35:25 <truebrain> GitHub uses the lowest amount required for that repository 😛
19:35:36 <truebrain> if we ever introduce a conflicing hash, it will do 8 😄 But 7 works for me 🙂
19:36:26 <truebrain> talltyler: not sure why I would responsible; but pretty sure we are all here to remember what the plan is 🙂
19:36:49 <frosch123> hmm, Revert also mentions the commit, doesn't it? but for player-facing that makes no sense
19:37:05 <truebrain> I removed that comment already, not? 😄
19:37:28 <truebrain> as I would suggest to not do that 🙂
19:37:55 <truebrain> well, no, it can be useful if it is a revert of a change that hasn't been released yet
19:38:00 <truebrain> as that makes it easier to filter it out 😛
19:38:04 <truebrain> but .. such rare things
19:38:24 <frosch123> like signal dragging 🙂
19:38:31 <truebrain> there are like 3 reverts a year
19:38:52 <frosch123> OSX is called MacOS now? i thought that was an older name
19:38:59 <frosch123> i guess history repeats?
19:38:59 <truebrain> No, they are MacOS 🙂
19:39:11 <truebrain> it used to be Mac OS X
19:39:31 <truebrain> well, macOS, to be very exact
19:40:03 <truebrain> so it was only OS X for 4 versions 😛 Out of the .. 20-ish?
19:40:05 <frosch123> but it's still "Win32"?
19:40:20 <truebrain> lot of our code still calls it win32 😄
19:40:27 <truebrain> but I guess you want it to be Windows 😛
19:40:47 <frosch123> i have no idea whether there are any official terms 🙂
19:41:17 <frosch123> win16/win32 was a significant change, i am not sure whether there is win64
19:41:19 <truebrain> and this PR isn't meant to use as a stick; more to give a bit of guidance. So changing it to `Windows` is not a bad idea
19:41:27 <peter1138[d]> It was OS X until 2016.
19:41:48 <frosch123> but yeah, I like "Windows"
19:41:54 <peter1138[d]> I think technically it's "macOS", rather than "Mac OS"
19:41:57 <frosch123> the "32" is overly specific
19:42:03 <peter1138[d]> Oh, truebrain said that 🙂
19:42:13 <truebrain> everyone is scrolled up these days 😛
19:42:32 <peter1138[d]> I wasn't, I just hadn't read that.
19:42:52 <peter1138[d]> OS X was from 10.0 to 10.11, so a bit more than 4.
19:43:11 <truebrain> OS X was from 10.8 till 10.11 🙂
19:44:06 <frosch123> aw, you removed my quadruple autoreplace fix 😦
19:44:18 <frosch123> that's still my personal record
19:44:53 <peter1138[d]> It was still OS X before 10.8, but yeah, Mac OS X.
19:44:54 <truebrain> I had to change it, as it gave the suggestion you could do: `Codechange #123, Fix #1341, Revert #5141, Feature #1312` 😛
19:45:16 <peter1138[d]> And nobody except die-hard fans actually called it OS Ten.
19:45:45 <truebrain> I just like it used to be "Mac OS X" and now "macOS"
19:45:50 <truebrain> like ... what happened to the spaces?
19:45:52 <truebrain> what did they do to you?
20:01:00 <xarick> Interesting choice of words
20:02:02 <frosch123> haha, i guess noone knows anymore that "YAPP" was a thing once 🙂
20:02:15 <frosch123> i guess "No" and mostly replaced "YA"
20:02:36 <truebrain> I didn't want to be like the others 😛 Or the others not like me. Either works 😛
20:03:17 <frosch123> merni: it's the current path signal implementation: yet another pbs patch
20:03:39 <frosch123> but well, 15.5 years ago
20:04:51 <truebrain> I hope I fixed merni 's comments correctly; but I made have fucked up 😄
20:04:57 <frosch123> i guess style docs are doomed to be nitpicked on 🙂
20:05:28 <truebrain> I rather have we nitpick and bikeshed and agree on it, then just stroll over it and do what-ever we want 😛
20:05:59 <michi_cc[d]> Well, the No.... series of acronyms is TB brainchild 🙂 I took over the YA from YAPF (YAPP, YAIM, and if ever done, YACD) 😛
20:06:25 <truebrain> it is the silent distance between us
20:06:28 <truebrain> unspoken, but there
20:07:07 <truebrain> although NoAI and NoGS are mostly gone now .. mostly called Script or just AI these days
20:07:23 <truebrain> even on the docs it is just called "AI API"
20:07:37 <merni> I just don't understand how, in something like `Fix #12345: [NewGRF] blah blah blah`, `[NewGRF]` can be called a section. What is it a section of?
20:07:50 <truebrain> section of the code 🙂
20:08:01 <truebrain> at least, I always assumed that is what people meant
20:08:44 <merni> maybe "component" rather than "section"? I am not sure that "section" is a well understood term regarding code
20:08:51 <frosch123> or section of the changelog?
20:09:00 <merni> Yeah I thought it was referring to the changelog
20:09:14 <merni> But when you are writing a commit message you don't care about how the changelog may be organised
20:09:22 <truebrain> this type of bikeshedding is for me just that: bikeshedding. Everyone reading the document will understand, and it isn't used in the commit message 🙂
20:09:42 <merni> I have no shed for my bike
20:10:02 <merni> in fact I haven't had a bike for at least 10 years
20:10:18 <truebrain> yet you are painting the shed in a different colour 😛
20:10:23 <xarick> Codefix and Fix needs more clarity for me 😦
20:10:32 <truebrain> So just name it; I am fine with what-ever. It really isn't important for the story 🙂
20:10:36 <merni> truebrain: jsut like making imaginary railways in openttd :P
20:10:57 <truebrain> I would not suggest "tag", as normally you can have multiple tags, and that is exactly not the idea 😛
20:11:01 <merni> section is fine, if you want to change to component, that is also fine
20:11:11 <merni> yeah tag was perhaps not the best solution
20:11:54 <merni> xarick: does the average player who does not read the source code know/care about the fix? if yes, Fix; if no, Codefix
20:12:46 <xarick> nobody cares about AIs, so I guess Codefix
20:13:55 <xarick> oh, I was talking about 10405
20:14:01 <truebrain> right, a bit more bikeshedding by me 🙂
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20:15:22 <LegendaryRider> Hey i'm trying to work on an open issue, can someone please guide me on how to setup on local dev environment (P.S. using windows)
20:15:38 <truebrain> Let us know if anything is unclear
20:16:10 <michi_cc[d]> talltyler: You could always find a typo in the website that needs urgent fixing 🙂
20:16:37 <frosch123> truebrain: you got the top-score for adjusting for five-digit issue numbers 🙂
20:16:48 <truebrain> merni: told me to 🙂
20:17:06 <merni> "told"... a strong word
20:17:23 <truebrain> pff, take the credit
20:17:42 <merni> I guess it will be a long time before we reach issue 1,00,000 :p
20:18:10 <peter1138[d]> Urgh, wireless mouse is having dropouts 😦
20:18:16 <truebrain> we said the same about 12000 ... which creeped up on me 😛
20:18:37 <truebrain> michi_cc[d]: good reminder. ^^ is a better solution 😛
20:18:55 <truebrain> can't test it, so ... there is that. But I guess it looks fine 🙂
20:21:02 <peter1138[d]> Sheesh, Codefix was only a joke 😮
20:21:14 <truebrain> that happens with jokes! You should know better by now 😛
20:21:19 <xarick> oh wow... the blame points towards truebrain of 16 years ago
20:21:22 <truebrain> still open for better alternatives btw 🙂
20:21:33 <frosch123> peter1138[d]: still, "codefeature" was denied 😦
20:21:35 <xarick> is it worth adding the hash in this case? it's old
20:25:27 <truebrain> now that is a good example of how to NOT use Codefix (or Codechange, for that matter); lol.
20:26:09 <peter1138[d]> "This fixes a crash"
20:26:20 <truebrain> crashes are developers-only 😛
20:26:29 <truebrain> no player cares about those 😄
20:26:31 <peter1138[d]> If it fixes a crash, it's a Fix.
20:27:11 <xarick> unless they actively develop AIs... so I went with codefix
20:28:02 <xarick> or use an AI that crashes the game purposedly
20:29:01 <truebrain> hmmppfff, the git-hooks repo is a bit of a forgotten child
20:29:08 <truebrain> in many ways .. but it seems it still works 😛
20:29:59 <xarick> Commit checker failed, eh...
20:31:46 <talltyler> Press the button right now, you say? 😛
20:31:57 <truebrain> press it as often as you like
20:32:02 <truebrain> make a party pressing it
20:32:13 <truebrain> well, not today, I kinda have the flue, but maybe tomorrow 😄
20:34:05 <xarothbrook> xarick: The error explains what's wrong with it though.
20:34:08 <talltyler> That’s less fun than the flue, I’m sorry to hear that 😦
20:34:28 <truebrain> it is fine; I am having a good laugh of the shit I am doing wrong 😄 As things go a bit .. odd 😛
20:36:48 <truebrain> I am kinda shocked there are not tons more MacOS bugs
20:36:50 <truebrain> that is pretty nice
20:37:04 <truebrain> commit message was only wrongly written ... "Mac OS" .... that doesn't exist! 😛
20:37:16 <truebrain> (ironic, as we talked about it 😛 )
20:39:24 <xarick> it's still not updated
20:43:12 <peter1138[d]> truebrain: Pretty sure that was why we were talking about it...
20:43:28 <truebrain> no, we were talking about it because of my PR, and frosch asking questions why I changed OSX to MacOS 🙂
20:44:00 <truebrain> and it doesn't matter; it is funny however 🙂
20:45:06 <peter1138[d]> Doesn't matter until you make the commit check block any variation other than "macOS" ;D
20:45:20 <truebrain> haha, it did cross my mind 😛 But no.
20:46:20 <Rubidium> but... how to handle "Remove: MacOS support" then?!? ;)
20:46:38 <truebrain> `Remove: [MacOS]`. Duh 😛
20:47:10 <truebrain> or better: `Remove: [MacOS] You know what you did`
20:47:32 <peter1138[d]> But that'd be blocked 😄
20:47:51 <truebrain> upsetting 1% of your playerbase; what can possibly go wrong
21:14:53 <_glx_> xarick: 11887 is definitely a Fix: as an AI passing incorrect value will affect user experience
21:18:18 <xarick> ok, I'm changing back to Fix
21:19:09 <_zephyris> (ignore the notification churn)
21:47:26 <frosch123> hmm, the font blog may benefit from some introductory paragraph. i would guess that most readers wouldn't know that ottd got a new font, or had a custom one before
21:57:17 <xarick> oops sorry, got distracted
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23:32:30 <_glx_> truebrain: I found what broke regression for me, it's steam plugin failing
23:36:26 <_glx_> (but duplicate errors make it fail too)
23:41:51 <_glx_> as long as there's something before the first regression line, the result will start with an empy line
23:45:51 <xarick> uh oh... road vehicle ticks strike again?
23:48:21 <xarick> yeah, well, 5000 per company
23:48:48 <xarick> got no time today, I'll take a look at this tomorrow
continue to next day ⏵
