IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-01-23
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00:18:18 <peter1138[d]> Such deconstruction
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01:00:14 <olionkey> truebrain: wait you guys are adding the discord intergration thing?
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08:09:00 <pickpacket> when is 14.0 coming out?
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08:25:58 <andythenorth> probably around April 1
08:36:10 <pickpacket> maybe April 2nd is better. Any news coming out on April 1st is a bit sus
08:43:31 <LordAro> you're aware of just how many releases have been done on April 1, right?
08:44:02 <truebrain> pickpacket: Nobody is stopping you 🙂 Go for it!
08:44:41 <pickpacket> LordAro: no, I wasn't 🤪
08:44:55 <pickpacket> truebrain: true dat. Haven't played in a while though
08:45:00 <pickpacket> too much other things to do
08:46:40 <wensimehrp> LordAro: looks like except the dev versions only 1.2 and 12 were not released on April 1st
08:47:58 <wensimehrp> Are there any reasons for that?
08:48:04 <truebrain> I am pretty sure it was a retorical question 🙂
09:36:06 <xarick> commit checker was right this time
09:36:17 <peter1138[d]> It is always right.
09:37:19 <peter1138[d]> Something tells me it went wrong :p
09:42:31 <peter1138[d]> Okay, height per zoom level ⇒ 27, 14, 6, 3, 2, 1
09:44:30 <xarick> that moment when you are certain you did no mistake, but you did a mistake
09:44:33 <locosage> LordAro: what a weird page...
09:45:06 <locosage> it only goes to 1.10 and sidebar has all the same info but also 1.11 and 12 xD
09:45:24 <LordAro> seems that someone updated the template post-wiki-move but not the page itself
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09:51:51 <peter1138[d]> Looks better ⇒ 27, 14, 7, 4, 2, 1
09:52:10 <truebrain> LordAro: why would that be related to wiki-move? 😄
09:53:18 <LordAro> well because i maintained it before then :D
09:53:44 <truebrain> so you just hate the new wiki-software, is what you are saying
09:53:49 <truebrain> no, I can read between the lines, no worries
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10:15:27 <peter1138[d]> I think we treated Archive as read-only...
10:51:42 <xarick> static CommandCost TerraformTile_Clear(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags, int, Slope) how do these functions work? the variable is missing
10:56:35 <peter1138[d]> It means it's not used.
10:57:27 <peter1138[d]> The function has to follow the expected layout though.
11:04:59 <xarick> something's wrong with visual studio
11:05:22 <xarick> the cmake is gone all of a sudden, I can't build
11:06:27 <xarick> I have a CppProperties.json instead... what happened
11:14:19 <xarick> i wanted force push grrr
11:15:45 <xarick> im going to lose a lot of changes because of visual studio
11:15:58 <xarick> how do I restore CMake?
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11:21:48 <xarick> this turned to false for some reason
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11:39:42 <xarick> world generation settings were moved?
11:40:31 <xarick> ah I see, stuff was moved to Towns category
11:48:58 <xarick> something's wrong with center view on tile
12:12:42 <xarick> going from c to first h is bugged, going from second h to first h is fine
12:13:45 <xarick> oh wow, this saved sound lol
12:14:53 <kuhnovic> We all have guilty pleasures 😆
12:17:13 <xarick> don't know how to disable sound recording on obs studio
12:20:21 <truebrain> would it be possible for me to refocus peter1138[d] on finished the review of my smooooottttttthhhhhhhhhh speed PR? 😄 😄
12:21:00 <xarick> truebrain: do I post a bug report, or are you aware of it already?
12:21:59 <truebrain> is that video based on master? As the camera does something that was fixed. So it feels like it is from an older version
13:24:15 <xarick> I'm making a bug report
13:25:34 <xarick> File size too big: 25 MB are allowed, 52 MB were attempted to upload.
13:26:30 <kuhnovic> Are you recording a video?
13:26:57 <LordAro> stop testing with 4k saves
13:26:58 <kuhnovic> Tip: use ShareX, it has a GIF screen capture feature. Much smaller files and no audio 😉
13:27:27 <kuhnovic> Ah ok. 4K savegames are a nightmare to run in debug, as you know...
13:27:55 <_glx_> they are just impratical for testing
13:28:29 <xarick> the bug happened on a 4k map 😦
13:28:37 <xarick> gonna try reproduce on another map size
13:28:39 <kuhnovic> Can you reproduce it on a smaller map?
13:29:34 <kuhnovic> In general you want to make it as easy as possible for anyone that wants to try to reproduce the issue. Otherwise people might "ah well fuck it" and give up.
13:33:23 <xarick> not even lzma:9 saved the day
13:35:22 <kuhnovic> xarick: Clearly not trying hard enough 😛
13:45:39 <kuhnovic> Why did the blind man fall into the well?
13:46:10 <kuhnovic> ... he did not see that well
13:48:03 <xarick> can't reproduce because I'm an unlucky bastard
13:48:48 <xarick> Settings window is also messed up too. Every category starts expanded
14:02:40 <xarick> 2 hours for a bug report
14:12:30 <_glx_> and of course I can't test the scenario before the smooth scrolling change
14:17:35 <xarick> I don't think this is intended to happen:
14:17:35 <xarick> - type something in the filter, like "tree"
14:17:37 <xarick> - open settings window: every category and sub-category is now expanded
14:21:27 <_glx_> no it's intended behaviour
14:21:42 <_glx_> when you enter a filter it automatically expands
14:22:55 <_glx_> unless you expanded/collapsed a category manually
14:24:20 <peter1138[d]> If only subtile resolution was higher, that could be avoided.
14:24:26 <_glx_> isn't it supposed to match preceding speed ?
14:24:31 <peter1138[d]> Not a small job.
14:24:56 <peter1138[d]> There's a gap, so probably not.
14:25:43 <peter1138[d]> They are slow vehicles so sometimes they don't move in one tick.
14:26:08 <peter1138[d]> That happens at different times, so they appear to jump.
14:26:25 <peter1138[d]> Not really fixable without big changes 🙂
14:26:26 <_glx_> pff my intellisense db is broken again
14:27:30 <peter1138[d]> at 4x zoom , the minimum step between sub-tiles is ~8.9 pixels 😮
14:29:12 <_glx_> hmm 8.9 is not very nice
14:29:36 <peter1138[d]> That's on AXIS_X/Y so it's diagonally, hence partial.
14:30:59 <belajalilija> are subtiles the pixles?
14:31:07 <peter1138[d]> This makes me want to reinvestigate my curves idea.
14:31:12 <truebrain> peter1138[d]: the game wasn't designed with 4x zoom in mind, I guess 😛
14:31:17 <peter1138[d]> No, they are sub-coordinates within in tile.
14:31:35 <peter1138[d]> truebrain: We should remove it 😉
14:31:41 <belajalilija> is there any way to get trains to drive smoother by them not moving only 1 pixel at a time?
14:31:41 <peter1138[d]> It's not TTD original!
14:31:42 <truebrain> solves all problems!
14:31:53 <peter1138[d]> belajalilija: No.
14:32:09 <peter1138[d]> That is literally the 'discussion' being had 😉
14:32:26 <peter1138[d]> By that I mean me throwing random pictures and thoughts out...
14:33:00 <belajalilija> well, if you guys can do it that'd be great
14:33:16 <belajalilija> i mean, it'd make following trains going unsure like 80kph much more pleasant
14:33:17 <_glx_> oh I need to rebase #11865 to be able to load the scenario
14:34:41 <peter1138[d]> I wonder what the value 2896 was meant to represent.
14:36:41 <truebrain> "it feels weird", lolz 😄
14:36:49 <truebrain> guess I need to test myself to give that a definition 😛
14:37:13 <truebrain> but so yeah, our code has issues with going from X/Y to X+1/Y, especially around the border
14:37:25 <truebrain> my changes make that visible; it was always there 🙂
14:37:28 <_glx_> it goes straight to the border, then to the town
14:37:35 <truebrain> that sounds like an overflow issue
14:37:55 <truebrain> LordAro: yes, try it yourself to figure out! 😄
14:38:01 <peter1138[d]> This tile clamping issue is kinda of related too, you are clamped to sub-tiles, but scrolling actually works on pixels... depending on where you look.
14:38:19 <truebrain> so a rewrite after all? 😄
14:38:27 <peter1138[d]> So it'll be smooth, then suddenly you are clamped and get warped to the nearest sub-tile.
14:38:38 <truebrain> LordAro: no, Java, duh
14:38:38 <_glx_> (and that's we a 4k² map)
14:39:15 <truebrain> _glx_: yeah, so it is 4k * 16 .. so that might cause an overflow 🙂
14:39:16 <LordAro> Make TTDPatch Great Again
14:39:56 <truebrain> but pretty sure I made them all an int
14:40:02 <truebrain> so yeah .. needs debugging 🙂
14:40:02 <_glx_> very rare case of a "useful" 4k² test map 🙂
14:41:31 <_glx_> at least it's "working" with #11865
14:41:56 <truebrain> yeah, 11865 reintroduce the DivAwayFromZero, which avoids X+1/Y situations, avoiding a bouncy-bouncy
14:42:03 <truebrain> still broken, but now hidden, like it used to 😄
14:48:03 <peter1138[d]> Viewport clamping is awkward as there can be more than one solution.
15:07:59 <truebrain> and the tracking of the terrain is a nice idea, but ... complicated if 1 pixel is not 1 pixel 😄
15:09:22 <truebrain> truebrain: it doesn't only feel weird, it is weird! You run right into the edge of the map to bounce back from it 😄
15:09:37 <truebrain> like running into a wall hard to bounce back to get to your destination 😄
15:11:03 <truebrain> so delta x/y is -178395 74415, then that is way too fast, so the x is clamped to -44599 .. and the y is then calculated to be -5470
15:11:08 <truebrain> in other words: IT IS GOING THE WRONG WAY
15:11:40 <truebrain> it isn't overflowing, that is the worst part
15:11:45 <truebrain> there are all integers
15:12:24 <truebrain> it should fit 5 times in an integer before it becomes an issue 😛
15:12:28 <peter1138[d]> Clamp before applying the smoothing function, btw.
15:12:34 <peter1138[d]> That fixes a lot of it.
15:12:49 <peter1138[d]> Or rather, hides.
15:13:12 <truebrain> you didn't have time for this today you said 😛 😛 😛
15:13:42 <peter1138[d]> I don't, that's why I tried yesterday but didn't mention :p
15:14:01 <truebrain> ah, no, it is an overflow
15:14:03 <locosage> I haven't looked at smooth scrolling in OpenTTD at all but what you're doing sounds way overcomplicated. All it needs is two pairs of coordinates, progress % and easing function.
15:14:09 <_glx_> just to have a patch for that later
15:14:19 <peter1138[d]> This isn't smooth scrolling.
15:14:22 <peter1138[d]> This is any scrolling.
15:14:41 <truebrain> "I don't know what you are talking about, but I have an opinion" are the best sentences 🙂
15:14:54 <truebrain> `delta_lo * delta_hi_clamped` can overflow 😄
15:15:13 <truebrain> okay, the old version didn't have that problem, as x/y wasn't correlated to each other
15:15:15 <locosage> well, you can continue to reinvent the wheel if you want....
15:15:24 <truebrain> just solving it is a bit annoying .. hmm .. let's see ...
15:16:33 <truebrain> the alternative is to move everything in the for-loop, but that is just a bit harder to read what this does
15:17:31 <truebrain> I do love computers: `74415 * -44599 = 976132711` 😄
15:18:30 <truebrain> okay, moving in for-loop still allow for overflow
15:18:32 <xarick> should I bother creating a worst case scenario for 11872?
15:18:37 <truebrain> int64_t seems easier
15:19:32 <truebrain> wait .. what does this function do ... `constexpr int DivAwayFromZero(int a, uint b) { const int _b = static_cast<int>(b); ...`
15:19:43 <truebrain> but casted into an `int`?
15:19:57 <truebrain> doesn't seem accidential
15:20:53 <xarick> there can be 15 aqueducts pointing to the same neighbour region patch + the edge neighbour, 16
15:20:58 <truebrain> was there since the first version
15:21:22 <_glx_> xarick: it's not an issue for PF, it will manage it
15:22:07 <xarick> not even if multiplied by the entire map?
15:22:09 <truebrain> or, you know, you could read the paper linked in that PR 🙂
15:22:23 <LordAro> truebrain: rewrite it in rust!
15:22:34 <truebrain> solves overflowing, funny enough 🙂
15:23:16 <truebrain> you have to be very explicit if you want to allow overflowing 🙂
15:23:55 <truebrain> `a.overflowing_add(b)`
15:24:07 <peter1138[d]> Change for change sake though.
15:24:08 <truebrain> the explicitness of it is rather nice
15:24:19 <xarick> this means FindNearestDepot will not be accepted as well
15:25:35 <_jgr_> truebrain: This function is only valid for positive denominators
15:25:59 <_glx_> but it can be very big positive
15:26:00 <truebrain> okay ... would be nice if the comments would have mentioned that 😄
15:26:27 <truebrain> but if it is above INT32_MAX, it acts like it works on negative denominators too 😛
15:26:31 <truebrain> it is a weird function, tbh
15:26:36 <truebrain> shall I just remove it? 🙂
15:26:52 <talltyler> truebrain: Here's the subsidy change you suggested. Does this mismatch not bother you? The other option is convert it to months/minutes, but that seems like terrible design considering the maximum value of the setting is 5,000 years...
15:27:22 <truebrain> talltyler: lolz, okay, I did not expect the text-value to be in another unit
15:27:42 <truebrain> okay, seems like a legit reason to keep it like you have 🙂
15:27:44 <talltyler> Unit conversion happens in the string control code 🙂
15:28:19 <_jgr_> truebrain: I'm not sure what result you would be looking for dividing an int by a valid above INT_MAX 😛
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15:32:35 <talltyler> Thanks as always for the reviews and patience ❤️
15:32:35 <talltyler> I was not hasty yesterday, just frazzled from work and missing things 😛
15:32:35 <truebrain> tnx for still being at it 🙂
15:33:11 <truebrain> talltyler: haha 😄 Tomato tomato 😛 I just felt bad saying the same things 🙂
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15:34:05 <matheusvhs> I wanted to suggest to anyone who is developing updates for the openttd game, add a "sandbox" or "free mode" mode to the game, it would be really cool to have this in the game for anyone who wants to create something big 🙂
15:34:26 <truebrain> CLTR+ALT+C, give yourself money, go nuts!
15:34:28 <belajalilija> you could always use cheats
15:35:40 <truebrain> hmm ... chicken/egg problem ... I need to make a minor correctly to not get in the issue at the border, where it bounces. But with that, you don't go linear to your final location, but it can be that one axis arrives there before the other does (because you constantly add 1 too many per movement to one of the two axis)
15:35:40 <xarick> gonna try to salvage 10411... it is currently derailed, outdated
15:35:51 <truebrain> did tha t make sense? I dunno .. but it annoys me that this can't be done correct 😛
15:36:33 <matheusvhs> truebrain: yes, but then I would be cheating
15:36:59 <truebrain> so if we label is "sandbox", but keep the same interaction, it wouldn't? 🙂
15:38:48 <_glx_> oh a GS could give money constantly too
15:39:58 <matheusvhs> truebrain: No, what I'm trying to say is that if the developers put a "sandbox" option in the new game area, most transport building games have this option, it will be very useful in the game, for anyone who wants to build something if you worry about money
15:40:58 <belajalilija> may i suggest renaming the cheats option to sandbox options
15:41:16 <truebrain> belajalilija: I like that idea, honestly
15:41:22 <truebrain> as clearly there is a sentiment around "cheating"
15:41:28 <matheusvhs> truebrain: i have a bigger idea
15:41:38 <truebrain> We are not measuring our dicksizes here, sorry 😛
15:41:45 <peter1138[d]> Multiplayer sandbox tho'
15:42:43 <truebrain> anyway, fixes the scrolling issue; also the border issue didn't return, so that is good 🙂
15:43:06 <belajalilija> truebrain: tbf ive seen people calling turning beakdowns off cheating
15:43:10 <belajalilija> cant please peopple
15:43:20 <truebrain> that is a very true statement
15:43:34 <matheusvhs> peter1138[d]: instead of having a sandbox option, it could simply add an infinite money option in normal and multiplayer mode
15:44:34 <locosage> _glx_: I even had a GS like that somewhere
15:44:34 <belajalilija> if you have like 50 million and a semi functional network your money is basically infinite
15:45:00 <locosage> likely attached in some pr for testing...
15:45:26 <matheusvhs> _glx_: I was never able to activate the cheats option in multiplayer mode
15:46:00 <locosage> yeah, need jgrpp for that...
15:46:03 <_glx_> hence the GS suggestion 🙂
15:46:06 <_jgr_> The cheat window doesn't talk about "eternal disgrace" any more, is it still an issue? 😛
15:50:53 <matheusvhs> It would also be cool to add an infinite map option
15:51:32 <belajalilija> but also you dont need it
15:52:23 <matheusvhs> at least add infinite money mode in multiplayer
15:54:28 <belajalilija> just make the map in singleplayer
15:54:35 <belajalilija> cheat a fuckton of money
15:54:40 <belajalilija> and use that map on multiplayer
15:55:05 <matheusvhs> belajalilija: wow, great idea
16:00:20 <belajalilija> "Sandbox Options"
16:01:05 <belajalilija> "Sandbox Options and only Sanbox Options this was never "Cheats" "
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16:02:18 <matheusvhs> locosage: subestimed
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16:03:01 <truebrain> hmmm .. peter1138[d] I could add padding on the left, but many windows have stuff glued to the left side ..
16:03:23 <truebrain> what do we normally do?
16:03:29 <matheusvhs> What do you think about adding people to the game?
16:03:56 <xarick> Move cheats into settings, remove cheats
16:04:10 <belajalilija> the game has people
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16:04:36 <truebrain> matheusvhs: how to make children is not a topic suitable for this channel; sorry
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16:04:45 <matheusvhs> belajalilija: I'm referring to sprites of people walking on the streets
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16:05:14 <peter1138[d]> truebrain: Oh you are removing the "the player used this" box?
16:05:20 <xarick> yay, I rebased 10411 into a buildable state
16:05:23 <truebrain> yes. I am so done with it.
16:05:33 <truebrain> but it is a custom build panel
16:05:40 <truebrain> tempted to rewrite it with a custom widget instead
16:06:04 <belajalilija> ohh when you said padding i thought you meant making the name bigger
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16:06:38 <matheusvhs> matheusvhs: to make it more "realistic", let's say
16:07:00 <bigyihsuan> matheusvhs: openttd is already not particularly realistic
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16:07:41 <peter1138[d]> AI settings window has left-right buttons like that, could follow that pattern?
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16:08:06 <truebrain> yeah, also glued to the side
16:08:08 <truebrain> looks weird, but sure
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16:08:26 <belajalilija> would those people walking around change size depending on what they were near? so near planes they get really small and near busses they get much bigger
16:08:34 <truebrain> owh, you weren't talking about per-AI settings
16:08:47 <truebrain> E_TOO_MANY_SETTINGS 🙂
16:09:15 <_jgr_> There are already some GRFs which show crowds on station platforms and such
16:10:03 <matheusvhs> belajalilija: This would make the game more fun, having people walking around the scenes
16:10:29 <peter1138[d]> I still have some layout-consistency patches to apply, maybe that's fixed in there 😄
16:10:37 <peter1138[d]> Got side-tracked as usual.
16:11:14 <truebrain> lol, the width of the window isn't wide enough now .. what did I do wrong ... 😄
16:11:34 <LordAro> are you suggesting that you didn't test before pushing & opening the PR? :p
16:12:00 <truebrain> /me looks at screenshot ... no, clearly I did not?! (totally confused look) 😛
16:12:22 <peter1138[d]> truebrain: include it on line 347. + scaled.whatever.Horizontal()
16:12:32 <truebrain> found that place a sec ago too 😄
16:12:39 <truebrain> one too many reductions of hsep_wide 🙂
16:12:44 <peter1138[d]> It's missing any standard padding on there.
16:13:28 <truebrain> there, now it looks "better" 🙂
16:13:31 <peter1138[d]> LordAro, if it compiles it's correct, right!
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16:13:44 <truebrain> anyway, if you want me to modify the looks more, just let me know
16:13:48 <truebrain> I went for the bare minimum here 🙂
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16:14:01 <matheusvhs> Are you going to add people walking around the scenes to the game?
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16:14:31 <peter1138[d]> Play Rollercoaster Tycoon for that 🙂
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16:15:57 <truebrain> didn't rename the internal name for this ("cheat"); it would be a change for change's sake 😛
16:16:19 <peter1138[d]> That'll be confusing in a few yearsa 😄
16:16:33 <truebrain> we haven't documented anywhere how to open the cheat menu?
16:16:41 <truebrain> can't find any reference of it in our (in-source) docs
16:16:47 <peter1138[d]> You mean the sandbox menu.
16:17:30 <_jgr_> It may be worth adding it to one of the main toolbar dropdowns, instead of just the keyboard shortcut
16:17:42 <truebrain> I agree; I assumed it was already there
16:17:43 <_jgr_> That will also resolve people on macs constantly asking how to open it
16:18:05 <truebrain> under what menu shall we put it?
16:18:24 <belajalilija> spanner is probably best actionally
16:18:42 <truebrain> wtf is "spanner" in your definition? 🙂
16:18:43 <belajalilija> because many of the cheats are like settings
16:19:04 <truebrain> ah .. a gear icon for the sane people, but okay 😛
16:19:14 <belajalilija> im confused now xd
16:19:15 <truebrain> that menu is already really crowded
16:19:47 <belajalilija> its a cog in opengrf
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16:19:52 <tabytac> some of these are in the transparecy menu anyways
16:19:59 <_jgr_> The tooltip says "Options and settings"
16:20:04 <tabytac> like transparent buildings / signs
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16:20:22 <_jgr_> "Sandbox Options" seems applicable there
16:20:49 <truebrain> _jgr_: good enough reason
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16:21:42 <xarick> should I go against the will of Rubidium?
16:21:56 <belajalilija> i think this is the 2nd time i have influenced the game
16:22:09 <truebrain> print it and put it above your bed!
16:22:14 <LordAro> xarick: generally speaking, no
16:22:30 <LordAro> but i'm sure Rubidium can be convinced if you have a good argument
16:22:59 <truebrain> _jgr_: does JGRPP have any changes in regards to "cheats" (now sandbox options), as in, multiplayer allowed, or?
16:23:38 <xarick> we had a heated debate on some functions in 10411, I don't think I can convince him
16:24:04 <_jgr_> There is a setting to allow network clients to use the money cheat, this is mainly for the cooperative model railway/world-building servers
16:24:25 <truebrain> and for the other options?
16:24:26 <_jgr_> Network clients can use all the cheats if they've been authorised to act as an admin
16:24:42 <truebrain> k, something to look into 🙂
16:24:45 <xarick> feels bad to undo, but okay, I submit
16:25:47 <truebrain> and not when you are in SE, ofc
16:25:50 <truebrain> as that makes no sense 😄
16:26:01 <truebrain> GitHub CoPilot wrote that actually .. I would not have thought about that
16:26:19 <peter1138[d]> Wash out your... keyboard?
16:26:39 <truebrain> 50%? of my PRs lately are written by copilot, sorry 😛
16:29:54 <truebrain> it also makes it more clear that most of those toggleable things should go to settings instead 🙂
16:29:58 <truebrain> but, not for this PR 🙂 Not today 😉
16:30:55 <tabytac> truebrain: I would think to put Sandbox Options above transparacy options and below NewGRF options
16:31:03 <tabytac> seems more fitted there imo
16:32:03 <truebrain> I don't see a real difference between those two choices? I also don't mind either way .. anyone else a preference?
16:32:27 <merni> Personally I have got used to transparency being the last option but I'm sure I'll adjust
16:32:46 <truebrain> it is why I added it last, to avoid people doing silly shit 😛
16:32:52 <truebrain> couldn't add it any lower 😄
16:33:13 <tabytac> just them in my head, the transparency options is next the details and other togglables
16:33:25 <merni> Also feel that the money-cheat in particular isn't really a setting like the other settings are, more of an action
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16:34:44 <truebrain> there isn't a good place anywhere for this, really 🙂
16:34:49 <merni> but I can't think of a better place to put it... on the economy window would be too tempting
16:34:58 <peter1138[d]> truebrain: Before Transparency options. All the others have the potential to affect gameplay. Transparency options is just visual.
16:35:33 <truebrain> peter1138[d]: good enough of a reason
16:35:43 <truebrain> LordAro: this time I did push before compiling / testing ... sorry 😄
16:38:29 <truebrain> See what I did there? 😄
16:41:51 <locosage> ha, so options that were put in cheats don't even have a checkbox anymore
16:42:13 <truebrain> Marvin has entered the chat
16:43:25 <merni> double posting, oops :p
16:44:10 <peter1138[d]> truebrain: The well known "increase your money by £10,000,000" option
16:46:18 <truebrain> talltyler: 2 more commits ...... can I muster the energy? Can you?! 😄
16:47:39 <talltyler> Hate to break it to you, but check the milestone 😉
16:48:11 <talltyler> There are two more PRs related to this project, plus the server list change 😄
16:49:11 <talltyler> #10606 has some survey data in the PR description now, which is awesome to have to understand how its JGRPP equivalent is being used
16:50:37 <truebrain> very minor comments
16:52:50 <peter1138[d]> Meanwhile, converting cheats to sandbox...
16:53:31 <truebrain> hmm ... on IRC you can't open images posted on Discord anymore?
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16:53:54 <truebrain> I knew they were going to combat people using Discord as a file-storage system
16:54:00 <truebrain> but this feels a bit drastic the other way 😄
16:54:20 <truebrain> owh, you can open them directly when posted
16:54:29 <truebrain> but they expire after like 5 minutes
16:54:34 <truebrain> fine .. "good enough" or something
16:57:06 <locosage> when your game is too sandbox to be challenging but not sandbox enough to be a sandbox xD
16:59:16 <merni> "Land colour used at the smallmap" with options "green, dark green, violet"
16:59:24 <merni> I wonder what gave rise to this 😆
16:59:29 <peter1138[d]> Colour blindness.,
16:59:45 <merni> Why those three options particularly, though?
17:00:20 <truebrain> Because they are also colourblind during writing? *trolololol*
17:01:29 <tabytac> I actually like violet more than i thought, and i use that colour now
17:02:03 <merni> if I want to make a new setting that goes under "limitations", do I put it in `difficulty_settings.ini`?
17:02:44 <merni> ik the file doesn't actually influence the position in the gui, but where would be a good place for it?
17:03:25 <_glx_> there are to places, .ini to create the setting, and settings_gui.cpp to add it to the window
17:03:28 <locosage> these files are so random I can never guess which one has the setting I need
17:04:02 <merni> _glx_: I understood that part, but is there any guideline as to which `ini` file may be relevant?
17:05:09 <_glx_> I never know where to find something in the .ini 🙂
17:05:31 <merni> alright then will just add it in difficulty as that feels relevant to me
17:06:21 <_jgr_> See where similar settings have ended up
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17:06:34 <_jgr_> The files are grouped by general theme
17:06:39 <_glx_> actually the files were split because we had too many settings for the compiler 🙂
17:07:32 <merni> I have had a better idea that does not involve adding a setting
17:07:56 <_jgr_> What sort of thing are you thinking of adding?
17:08:14 <merni> an option to make building things free
17:08:34 <merni> instead of needing to occasionally cheat arbitrary money and mess up the financial statements
17:08:59 <merni> now I am thinking of adding to the "running costs" and "construction costs" dropdown
17:09:34 <tabytac> could that not be done with the basecost newGRF? or is this juts a better solution
17:10:49 <merni> tabytac: yes indeed it could
17:11:04 <merni> I am just experimenting, not trying to get this merged :p
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18:15:35 <peter1138[d]> Definitely not daylength.
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18:41:01 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:09:13 <truebrain> hmm .. do we need to learn eints the new `{}` code?
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19:10:59 <truebrain> dear frosch123 , do you happen to know if we need to learn eints about this change:
19:10:59 <truebrain> Or more specifically
19:11:58 <frosch123> also, did we add ZWSP and NBZWSP meanwhile?
19:12:07 <truebrain> think it is still open
19:13:24 <frosch123> together with the number of parameters, and whether they support plurals or genders
19:13:38 <truebrain> guess talltyler has some more work to do 😄
19:13:51 <truebrain> or maybe someone can help him out; not me this time 🙂
19:16:22 <truebrain> can you send a vehicle to a depot and make it automatically sell that vehicle once it arrives there?
19:17:01 <tabytac> in jgr you can, dont think base game has that yet
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19:17:48 <truebrain> did our tooltip always appear this quickly? For some reason it feels unreasonable quick .. but that can just me being needing some more sleep 😛
19:20:15 <_jgr_> There's a setting for how long the delay is
19:20:42 <truebrain> 250ms .. that is a bit .... excessive 😄
19:23:30 <locosage> tabytac: nice feature
19:24:24 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, now shall i try combining fractional sprite scaling with svg sprite loading...
19:25:04 <truebrain> you know you want to!
19:33:05 <LordAro> finally nailed down that memory corruption i've been hunting for 3 days
19:33:30 <LordAro> naturally it's a one line fix
19:33:58 <LordAro> and i'm not entirely sure why it's memory corruption, rather than your usual double free
19:34:25 <truebrain> but now you can sleep at night \o/
19:34:28 <LordAro> going to chalk it up to ada controlled types interacting strangely with pointers
19:43:43 <LordAro> honestly probably needs killing and starting again anyway
19:43:48 <LordAro> by someone who knows what they're doing
19:44:15 <rau117> tabytac: Click once to go to depot, hold and click to choose something else? Tnother feature that can (or even must) be taken to vanilla!
19:44:56 <truebrain> (as we sure don't know what we are doing 😄 )
19:45:44 <LordAro> i volunteer andy as tribute
19:46:26 <truebrain> I need him first to draw some MIT art 🙂
19:46:36 <truebrain> as for some reason we have a logo that nobody knows where it came from 😛
19:46:46 <truebrain> (so who-ever made it, can't relicense it to MIT 😛 )
19:47:14 <truebrain> but given he hasn't been around, hard to ask him 😄
19:47:39 <truebrain> I meant to say: as we don't know who made it, I can't ask them if we can relicense it to MIT 😛
19:47:54 <truebrain> but Bjarni did make the commit to add the art
19:48:00 <truebrain> so it would make sense if he made it
19:48:29 <truebrain> but I am sure andy will draw a lovely and beautiful "alternative", under MIT license 🙂
19:52:09 <truebrain> ugh, how much easier crash dumps analysis will be with 14.0 ... now it is just annoying as fuck 😛
19:52:22 <truebrain> find the pdb, find the exe, move them in one folder, change the names to match
19:52:39 <truebrain> with 14.0 it is just: add symbol server, hit debug
19:58:25 <_jgr_> I just took the mostly easier approach of having symbols in all my release binaries
19:58:45 <truebrain> aren't they very large with symbols in them?
19:58:49 <truebrain> the symbol files are not small 😛
19:58:55 <truebrain> (talking about Windows here btw; the rest is okay)
19:59:32 <_jgr_> Not really, it's just the basics like function and line numbers, not every last thing that DWARF can encode
19:59:40 <frosch123> oof... {TKM} seems like an entirely new thing
20:01:25 <truebrain> lol, so every variable is visible in this function that crashes, except `v`, the important value
20:04:39 <truebrain> _jgr_: so yeah, even with our 100+ MiB debug files, I still can't see what is going on 😄
20:09:54 <frosch123> talltyler: I did not follow the NoDL stuff 🙂 Was there an attempt to use {STRING} instead of {TKM}
20:10:44 <frosch123> I am not sure translators can use TKM, whether it would need nested plurals, or stuff...
20:12:44 <xarick> what to do with 11841?
20:14:07 <frosch123> truebrain: I have no idea how to add TKM, we may have to disable eints sync jobs. I am not sure whether it wouldn't mess up stuff in the sync commit :/
20:14:36 <frosch123> I am more inclinded to patch ottd and remove TKM i favour of STRING :p
20:15:09 <truebrain> I have not been involved in the creation of TKM, so I couldn't say if that is even possible, and how 🙂
20:15:24 <truebrain> but disabling workflows, that I can
20:15:40 <truebrain> _glx_: the eints workflow is disabled on purpose 😉
20:17:07 <truebrain> I think the idea of TKM is to allow customization in how to represent the two different forms of time depending on the strings, without having to add these checks in many places in the code for all the strings that show time
20:17:11 <truebrain> but I am just guessing here, honestly
20:17:51 <truebrain> peter1138[d]: yeah, 11864 fixes that rule 😛 But .... yeah ... 😄
20:18:23 <peter1138[d]> But it's been closed.
20:19:05 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, I guess I have to tell LoadSprite what size I want to be loaded.
20:19:17 <frosch123> in most cases TKM is used to avoid adding a second similar string
20:19:21 <xarick> I don't know how to reply... it's what yapf used to do, it's what npf does. If that was wrong before, it at least didn't cause the ship to be stuck 😦
20:19:48 <frosch123> but I would much rather add a similar string. templating strings from parts does not work well in translations
20:20:46 <frosch123> the strings used in settings may need some magic flag to support different strings
20:22:26 <frosch123> ok, checked the usages. I'll go for removing {TKM} 🙂
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20:24:49 <_glx_> truebrain: it's too late, the new strings just got synced
20:27:45 <frosch123> looks like it removed the invalid translations, i guess that is fine
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20:30:19 <_glx_> we know eints need to be updated before introducing a new command, yet we always forget to do it before merging 🙂
20:35:59 <frosch123> flake8 is happpy, otherwise untested 🙂
20:40:17 <peter1138[d]> #11766 doesn't work, but I guess it doesn't hurt to pre-emptively add it?
20:43:59 <frosch123> "Display a breaking zero-width space" <- "display" is awkward there :p
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20:55:15 <frosch123> haha, commit-checker rejects the gh-generated commit message :p
21:00:25 <peter1138[d]> Oh dear, I should've moved these NewGRFs out the way before starting with valgrind...
21:01:03 <frosch123> haha, .openttd is a symlink for me for that reason 🙂 switch between "everything" and "minimal"
21:02:35 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to "touch openttd.cfg"?
21:03:26 <_glx_> we added a command line flag to skip the scan
21:04:18 <frosch123> does it still find the baseset then?
21:05:41 <peter1138[d]> Yes. However I also need one particular NewGRF for my test 🙂
21:06:00 <_glx_> ah yead defeat the skip
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21:10:38 <frosch123> i hope there are no more time units planned
21:12:02 <peter1138[d]> Oh, found the bug though... if you allocate a buffer for the largest zoom size, make sure that IS the largest zoom size.
21:14:55 <peter1138[d]> Now I need to figure out if I can make grfcodec to nml spit out svg GRFs.
21:15:13 <peter1138[d]> Currently a grf-py exclusive...
21:17:15 <peter1138[d]> And not sure I can do much about that misalignment.
21:21:46 <frosch123> servicing interval is ridiculous complex :p the GUI can show percent, days or minutes, and the inc/dec buttons and their tooltips list different increments for them
21:24:32 <xarick> I'm in a mist of disappointment, angry, annoyed, depressed
21:28:13 <xarick> I'm so scared of pressing Force Push
21:28:22 <xarick> have it announced on the chat
21:32:45 <locosage> frosch123: TKM may work for translations, as it doesn't seem to be used with non-constant number. So can put pretty much the whole string inside TKM if needed.
21:33:12 <locosage> but if there is ever a `{NUM} {TKM ...}` that'll likely be a problem
21:34:34 <frosch123> yes {P} inside TKM. either way, a string command specific for a single setting is meh
21:35:08 <frosch123> using {STRING} to reference "years" and "periods" seems to be even worse though 🙂
21:35:26 <frosch123> so it's: duplicate all strings :/
21:35:39 <_zephyris> peter1138[d]: It should be possible, right? If sampling accounts for sprite offset? Tbh that would be handy for normal zoom out too.
21:36:49 <frosch123> do you need to split the logo into individual letters? or could you put everything into the "n", and keep the rest empty?
21:37:54 <locosage> frosch123: P may not be enough, I can imagine real time units requiring a different phrasing completely
21:38:20 <locosage> so, like both num and p inside tkm
21:38:22 <peter1138[d]> Is it much different conceptually from "{NUM} litres" and "{NUM} tonnes" ?
21:39:08 <frosch123> peter1138[d]: there are 4 new commands of that type, they are fine
21:39:24 <frosch123> TKM is about things like "each year"/"each period"
21:39:50 <frosch123> no numbers, but different strings with different genders and cases and stuff
21:40:08 <peter1138[d]> _zephyris: Hmm, zoom out is a different algorithm that does weird things, and only supports powers-of-two still.
21:40:35 <peter1138[d]> Things that don't matter in English but do in other languages... yeah.
21:40:41 <peter1138[d]> Duplicating strings seems correct. tbh.
21:40:49 <frosch123> we also have similar strings for "this year" and "last year", and do not template the "this" and "last"
21:41:59 <_glx_> I noticed yesterday the duplicated caption/tooltips for buttons in intro and worlgen
21:45:06 <locosage> that reminds me, I kinda want to add more score lines but not sure what to do about these translations
21:45:17 <locosage> add like 85 more strings doesn't look that good of an idea
21:45:26 <_glx_> I can say STR_ORDINAL_NUMBER_2ND and STR_DAY_NUMBER_2ND should not be the same in french
21:45:51 <_glx_> seems I should check the ORDINAL ones 🙂
21:48:04 <xarick> primeiro, primeira, primeiros, primeiras
21:53:20 <locosage> I don't need day numbers but having unlimited ordinals would be nice
21:54:51 <locosage> though it doesn't rly that "st" thing whatever that's called, not in league table context at lest, something like "#1" would do just fine
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21:57:15 <frosch123> there are plenty of strings with "#{NUM}"
22:00:14 <frosch123> well, there are also "2:NUM" and "COMMA"
22:01:52 <locosage> hm, so station is #{NUM} but waypoint #{COMMA}...
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22:06:34 <peter1138[d]> Two methods of doing the same thing... both done.
22:08:15 <peter1138[d]> Fix one thing, break another...
22:09:35 <peter1138[d]> I think this would be simple by make sure the offsets are all 0, so no auto cropping. 🙂
22:09:42 <locosage> so I suppose .date doesn't work anymore?
22:10:43 <frosch123> it's a "case", they are defined per language
22:10:58 <frosch123> ##case subs date geniki
22:11:04 <frosch123> at the top of the file
22:11:25 <frosch123> STR_FORMAT_DATE_LONG :{STRING.date} {STRING} {NUM} <- used like that
22:11:26 <peter1138[d]> Referenced by `STR_FORMAT_DATE_LONG :{STRING.date} {STRING} {NUM}`
22:11:50 <frosch123> no sure whether this is a reasonable usecase though 🙂
22:12:01 <frosch123> or whether it even works
22:12:35 <locosage> yeah, but STR_ORDINAL_NUMBER_1ST is shown directly with DrawString so there is no way for it to use .date case as I understand?
22:12:36 <peter1138[d]> No need for it because we have different strings anyway, but it would be if we didn't...
22:13:04 <frosch123> i guess it's about using different numbers in STR_FORMAT_DATE_SHORT and STR_FORMAT_DATE_LONG
22:13:07 <peter1138[d]> It'll work for the STR_DAY_NUMBER ones.
22:15:55 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, I suppose there's no "keep existing sprite but add this zoom level on to it" action is there...
22:16:14 <peter1138[d]> Wouldn't make sense with how the spritecache is organised.
22:18:02 <locosage> you mean newgrf action? no
22:18:10 <locosage> would be helpful though
22:18:18 <locosage> for smth like optional zoom levels
22:20:04 <peter1138[d]> Any chance you could push your svg changes somewhere? I've got a few SVG files I'd let to test 🙂
22:21:42 <locosage> what changes do you mean? I think I sent the latest code here already
22:21:47 <locosage> though can push to grf-py repo I guess
22:21:57 <peter1138[d]> Let me see what I've got.
22:22:41 <peter1138[d]> Oh, so that is all it took? lol
22:23:34 <locosage> yeah, and half of it isn't even necessary there xD
22:23:48 <locosage> sprite caching stuff
22:24:55 <locosage> well, not half I guess, get_fingerprint and get_resource_files needed for it to cache correctly
22:25:02 <locosage> could just return none so it won't cache
22:27:39 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, not sure how/if that pip install is working :/
22:30:23 <locosage> should just grab the latest version from github repo
22:30:41 <locosage> well, not latest anymore xD
22:31:52 <peter1138[d]> It turns my mouse cursor into a crosshair and wants to capture a bit of screen. Something is not right :/
22:32:52 <locosage> hm, you probably copied something else along
22:39:19 <peter1138[d]> Dependency hell or something.
22:42:59 <locosage> can try to checkout grf-py repo and run `pip install .` from there
22:47:57 <wensimehrp> pasantoroviaGitHub: Smae thing i guess
22:51:00 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, okay, so did I set up a venv before...
22:52:40 <peter1138[d]> pip failed to build package:
22:53:10 <peter1138[d]> Didn't think grf-py used nml
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22:53:29 <locosage> yeah, it does for a few things
22:53:36 <locosage> strings and sprite encoding
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22:54:17 <locosage> don't quite want to write my own yet
22:54:32 <wensimehrp> I guess this string needs a counter...
22:55:06 <wensimehrp> I mean, countet words
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23:06:35 <peter1138[d]> Gah, why is python such a cu...
23:13:47 <xarick> I'm gonna pull the trigger!
23:14:37 <xarick> may I dare setting it ready for review
23:15:19 <xarick> I edited the post, it's has text to read now
23:20:08 <xarick> I feel it's ready for review, but I'm so scared of another close
23:20:27 <xarick> took me a lot of work.
23:29:10 <talltyler> frosch123: Yes, once upon a time. The issue I ran into was settings menu names and helptexts, where we don't set params manually -- the string is chosen in the .ini file... jfs suggested the string code and I ran with it. 🙂
23:32:06 <peter1138[d]> locosage: what's the syntax for Action 5 (ReplaceNewSprites)
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23:39:23 <peter1138[d]> Ta, I was missing offset=
23:39:44 <peter1138[d]> The * confused me.
23:40:15 <locosage> * just forces offset to be a keyword-only parameter
continue to next day ⏵
