IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2024-01-07
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08:52:43 <wensimehrp> xarick: Would a land price GS be possible? i.e it will calculate land prices based on nearby infrastructure and will affect building costs.
08:54:48 <jfs> no, GS can't control purchase prices and especially not based on location
08:55:27 <wensimehrp> ah then that needs a patch
08:58:06 <jfs> we have discussed various ideas for "territories" or "regions" or things like that, where GS can define geographic areas of the map and then set up various rules for them
08:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow that reads like an andy question
09:00:06 <jfs> but I don't think we have discussed straight up land values
09:00:39 <jfs> it's one of those things that can easily lead to a rabbit hole of financial simulation overhauls
09:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember an ancient patch that set clear land price based on distance to town center
09:07:03 <peter1138[d]> UK land price patch = higher & higher
09:25:02 <merni> I think you can remove "UK" there
09:29:02 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, how much slower have I made this...
10:04:29 <andythenorth> how often do you call it?
10:04:38 <andythenorth> if it's slower, just call it fewer times?
10:04:52 <peter1138[d]> It's in tileloop_town, so quite a lot 🙂
10:04:57 <peter1138[d]> However, it isn't slow.
10:09:44 <peter1138[d]> Are we ready to play Chris Sawyer's finest game today?
10:10:37 <_zephyris> Hmm. Objects really should have their own menu entry (visible when objects are available). They're really buried under landscaping, plus the object selection window doesn't close with the landscape toolbar window (unlike, eg., stations as a rail sub-toolbar).
10:11:43 <peter1138[d]> Yeah, they used to close, but then it was changed not to. And it's a bit clunky and interacts oddly with the other builders.
10:14:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
10:15:54 <peter1138[d]> That'll never get accepted
10:16:06 <peter1138[d]> The capital O breaks the game.
10:17:11 <_zephyris> I was trying to make/use and object NewGRF last night for the very first time(!). Genuinley took me a while to find how to build them.
10:17:45 <peter1138[d]> I've loaded them up some times, but honestly I don't really see their place in the game.
10:18:17 <peter1138[d]> Objects that look like industries. Objects that look like houses. Objects that look like fields...
10:18:20 <andythenorth> objects on every toolbar?
10:18:38 <_zephyris> Rocks are rocks though, genuinely landscape objects. I'd like some for a scenario.
10:18:57 <peter1138[d]> And yet, landscaping doesn't let you place rocks.
10:19:03 <andythenorth> station objects are just because corner slopes / adverse slopes
10:19:11 <andythenorth> industry objects are...dunno
10:19:19 <andythenorth> house objects are because can't place houses?
10:20:04 <reldred> peter1138[d]: this is one thing that has constantly ground my gears
10:20:19 <reldred> not enough to do something about it
10:20:45 <_zephyris> peter1138[d]: Objects that look like objects 😉
10:23:54 <peter1138[d]> And if you did you'd do it for jgrpp :p
10:24:44 <peter1138[d]> So I made my CargoType / CargoID thing work last night.
10:24:49 <peter1138[d]> Then I got rid of CargoType completely \o/
10:25:19 <peter1138[d]> There are now only CargoID and CargoLabel.
10:26:03 <peter1138[d]> There's probably something broken, but it seems to work.
10:28:14 <emperorjake> Is that "place sign" tool accessed from the main menu the only other time a cursor tool isn't tied to a window, apart from the query (land area information) tool?
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10:33:07 <xarick> A GSGroupList per vehicle type would be handy
10:34:41 <xarick> but alas, it doesn't exist
10:35:02 <xarick> I'm scared the Valuate function won't like to deal with 64000 items
10:36:16 <_zephyris> emperorjake: I think yes...
10:37:54 <emperorjake> I think it would be a good idea if the Delete key could cancel those tools
10:38:58 <emperorjake> I'll have a go at a PR sometime
10:41:15 <_zephyris> I think `esc` does?
11:02:11 <andythenorth> peter1138[d]: \o/
11:02:17 <andythenorth> run the tests? 😛
11:22:41 <peter1138[d]> ``100% tests passed, 0 tests failed out of 71
11:24:55 <peter1138[d]> xarick: Make PR.
11:40:45 <xarick> building trains is slow
11:41:01 <xarick> and it's not the FreeIDGenerator thing slowing it down
11:41:38 <xarick> it's probably something else in CmdBuildTrain
11:45:23 <peter1138[d]> How many trains can you build in a second?
11:46:21 <peter1138[d]> How many trains can a player build in a second?
11:47:11 <_glx_> As I said the id generator is supposed to be called at most 15 times per tick
11:47:47 <_glx_> I'll really have to prevent async when company mode
11:48:39 <xarick> oh noes, then I have to do it the AI wai
11:48:59 <xarick> 15 AIs, 15 trains per tick?
11:49:36 <peter1138[d]> Can AIs use async mode?
11:50:33 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, it's probably not really a problem then, other than complaints that creating thousands of trains takes a bit of time.
11:56:12 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, is there any cargo set that disables passengers?
11:57:23 <Rubidium> _glx_: technically the id generator could be called about 270 times per tick; 15 AIs and 255 clients, though arguably the human player clients likely won't be able to sustain that for multiple ticks. But the point should be that AIs/GSs should be considered more human like, so even in a game with 200 clients I would expect that the median trains built per tick is 1 or less (in total).
12:02:24 <_glx_> xarick: I'll see if I can add the list filtering to more list types
12:03:40 <xarick> > Get the length of a the total vehicle in 1/16's of a tile.
12:04:43 <_glx_> And you know how to update the doc 😉
12:04:57 <xarick> hmm too focused right now
12:05:04 <xarick> wanted to get the script done
12:05:55 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, now, do I go this route, or do a mix with #11378
12:07:00 <xarick> arf, i hate it that i can't get the length of a engine before it becomes a vehicle...
12:11:09 <xarick> need to find a way to not build excess wagons, don't wanna resort to using SellVehicle during wagon attachment
12:12:47 <xarick> can i check length of free wagons? let's see
12:13:19 <xarick> looks like I can IsValidVehicle(vehicle_id).
12:13:27 <xarick> it's not using IsPrimaryVehicle
12:14:15 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, what does "real" industries do...
12:16:34 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, so towns now produce " Students"
12:17:32 <_glx_> Wagon length can change once attached (newgrf magic)
12:17:49 <xarick> yes, so I was told before
12:18:25 <peter1138[d]> Another case that variants can replace 🙂
12:30:26 <andythenorth> variants contiune to ruin the game
12:30:50 <andythenorth> it's lol that we ever thought changing vehicle length was a good idea
12:31:00 <andythenorth> even though I have used it for stupid grf tricks
12:33:50 <merni> It's nice for multiple unit carriages without needing a different type of carriage for each MU type or having fixed consists
12:45:32 <reldred> andythenorth: But how else would we have gronks?
12:56:39 <talltyler> Uh I think Andy’s statement was “allowing GRF callbacks to change vehicle lengths in the depot is silly,” not “we should never have strayed from the light of 8/8 vehicles” 😛
12:57:58 <emperorjake> Nah, we should allow callbacks to change lengths outside of the depot too 😛
12:58:54 <emperorjake> (though I can see several potential problems with that)
13:02:25 <andythenorth> we used to allow it
13:02:34 <andythenorth> rubidium removed it to prevent desyncs
13:03:03 <andythenorth> used to be possible in stations....which....causes problems
13:07:53 <peter1138[d]> Wasn't allowed, just wasn't anticipated
13:24:58 <peter1138[d]> Oh, NewGRFs can't directly set town effect?
13:25:16 <andythenorth> they can set the town effect on cargo to be like one of the existing town effects?
13:25:53 <peter1138[d]> No, they set the town effect on cargo to be like one of the default cargos.
13:27:47 <peter1138[d]> (More of rather than on)
13:31:11 <andythenorth> does the question arise from getting rid of CargoType?
13:33:23 <peter1138[d]> No, the question arises from how to decide what towns produce.
13:33:39 <peter1138[d]> 'PASS' and 'MAIL', or TE_PASSENGERS / TE_MAIL
13:34:39 <peter1138[d]> #11378 implements the latter.
13:36:22 <peter1138[d]> But it's possibly too much of a change from what existing grfs expect.
13:42:55 <peter1138[d]> Also HQ, which are not really towns but do produce passengers/mail.
13:45:20 <peter1138[d]> A settings PR without a ton of bike-shedding? 😉
13:57:33 <talltyler> peter1138[d]: I'm quite surprised
13:59:30 <rau117> TallTylerviaGitHub: Maybe make an additional tab in the world creation menu so that you don’t have to go into the settings for this? Or at least a shortcut button (like AI or NewGRF settings) to world generation in settings?
14:01:57 <andythenorth> talltyler: you didn't wait long enough 😛
14:02:26 <talltyler> I was going to give it a few more days, but am updating a PR that needs one of the new categories I added... people had three days 😛
14:02:37 <talltyler> And I saw all the usual faces in here during that time
14:03:34 <andythenorth> if you could just put all the settings in the world gen, that would be great, thanks
14:03:59 <talltyler> World Gen does need rewriting *someday*
14:04:08 <talltyler> But today is not that day 😄
14:05:20 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, and then, there is CC_PASSENGERS...
14:17:01 <Rubidium> I'll pass this discussion ;)
14:23:17 <peter1138[d]> Yeah that's probably not desirable.
14:23:37 <talltyler> No, I think that industry set wants those to be more difficult to produce
14:23:52 <talltyler> Same goes for Tourists in ECS and Industries of the Caribbean
14:24:23 <peter1138[d]> Yeah... TownEffect works a bit better but still lacks NewGRF control.
14:25:31 <talltyler> Houses have a produce() callback, but most cargos are defined by industry GRFs... so yeah, it's not a unified system
14:28:30 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, maybe add a second TE property for town production which defaults to TE_NONE except if the cargo label is PASS or MAIL. Then it's under NewGRF control but if they don't it works as before -- and that way the bit that special-cases PASS/MAIL is in GRF loading instead of throughout the code.
14:29:09 <talltyler> TP = Town Production?
14:29:43 <talltyler> But which multiplier do they use? Population or mail multiplier?
14:30:52 <talltyler> I do very much like how this gives cargo control to the industry NewGRF instead of having to coordinate house production with the house set
14:31:01 <talltyler> Because that almost never happens
14:31:03 <peter1138[d]> Same as it already is...
14:31:17 <peter1138[d]> TE_PASSENGER would be the same as passengers now.
14:31:23 <peter1138[d]> TE_MAIL is the same as mail now.
14:31:34 <talltyler> Oh, so TP_PASSENGER and TP_MAIL?
14:31:36 <peter1138[d]> TP_NONE, TP_PASSENGER, TP_MAIL if it needs a separate effect.
14:32:05 <talltyler> I could finally make Waste in ITI less kludgy 😄
14:32:17 <peter1138[d]> Improved Town Industries would be able to flag waste as TE/TP_MAIL
14:34:20 <peter1138[d]> Okay, due to the way I split #11378 it's basically a rewrite from scratch to do this, but hey 😄
14:34:32 <peter1138[d]> At least, rebase+edit each commit.
14:34:42 <peter1138[d]> But that's fine.
14:37:46 <peter1138[d]> `/** Town growth effect when delivering cargo. */`
14:37:52 <peter1138[d]> Yeah, that's quite specific about what it's for.
14:39:05 <andythenorth> I could pretend I understand town effect stuff, but I don't 🙂
14:40:13 <peter1138[d]> It's pretty simple?
14:43:03 <peter1138[d]> They basically do nothing, except food and water.
14:43:18 <peter1138[d]> But they can be used by GS to set up goals.
14:44:06 <peter1138[d]> (Which they do, afaik)
14:44:39 <peter1138[d]> Basically instead of GS having to know what cargos exist and what they are, they can just go by town effect.
14:45:45 <peter1138[d]> Basically used too often.
14:55:24 <talltyler> Is that why TE_GOODS exists, for GS to read?
14:55:27 <peter1138[d]> Town effect was already used for subsidies once, but then subsidies got rewritten...
14:56:42 <peter1138[d]> Subsidies used to determine if their destination was a town or industry based on the cargo type.
14:56:56 <peter1138[d]> So then that changed to be based on town_effect.
14:57:04 <peter1138[d]> TE_GOODS was used there.
14:57:26 <peter1138[d]> Later, SourceType was added which explicitly states that instead.
14:59:13 <peter1138[d]> ```- } else if (s->cargo_type == CT_PASSENGERS || s->cargo_type == CT_MAIL || s->cargo_type == CT_GOODS || s->cargo_type == CT_FOOD) {
14:59:13 <peter1138[d]> + } else if (te == TE_PASSENGERS || te == TE_MAIL || te == TE_GOODS || te == TE_FOOD) {
14:59:13 <peter1138[d]> xy = GetTown(offs)->xy;```
15:04:20 <peter1138[d]> Subsidies were cleaned up so that was no longer needed.
15:05:38 <peter1138[d]> But effectively now TE_GOODS is only used for goals.
15:08:58 <peter1138[d]> Original 'documentation' :p
15:09:43 <peter1138[d]> `TownEffect town_effect; ///< The effect that delivering this cargo type has on towns. Also affects destination of subsidies.`
15:09:48 <peter1138[d]> Currently it says that.
15:10:14 <peter1138[d]> I don't think it does do the later any more.
15:14:01 <peter1138[d]> I guess this is why I always think of TownEffect as the things a town does... that was my intention originally, but it never got fully implemented, and then bits of it got removed.
15:17:07 <peter1138[d]> Also, awkward that the sign one has the sign, but passes the index to another function that then does Sgn::Get()
15:17:47 <peter1138[d]> And has a GetCompany() call in it.
15:18:29 <_glx_> it uses the API to not reinvent the wheel
15:18:45 <peter1138[d]> Eh, once, sorry 🙂
15:19:29 <peter1138[d]> Yeah I know why, and it's also not a comment about this patch really 🙂
15:19:56 <_glx_> at least it doesn't also call IsDeity() 🙂
15:25:01 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, I think I might be wrong. Town::goal doesn't seem to have anything to do with GS.
15:25:22 <peter1138[d]> Ah there is one place where GS can set/get them.
15:25:35 <peter1138[d]> But they are also used by vanilla to set up food/water requirements.
15:27:24 <peter1138[d]> For town goals there's the awkward behaviour of only showing the first cargo that matches.
15:27:26 <peter1138[d]> Maybe that can be a list.
15:28:38 <peter1138[d]> No,it's CARGO_TINY / CARGO_LONG :/
15:32:55 <xarick> my goodness, it takes so much time attaching wagons... why!
15:33:14 <peter1138[d]> Basically if you have two TE_FOOD cargoes, and you deliver only the second type, the town window will say you've delivered the first type.
15:34:14 <xarick> I have written a nice script about cargos and effects in towns...
15:34:23 <xarick> let me see if it could be useful for you
15:44:33 <xarick> what's the most cargo setup?
15:46:51 <emperorjake> FIRS 5 Steeltown and AXIS both max out at 64 cargos
15:47:21 <emperorjake> FIRS 5 isn't out yet but Andy's posted some preview versions here and on the forums
15:48:35 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, if each town stored how much cargo was received for each cargo type rather than for each town effect it could display this better.
15:49:04 <peter1138[d]> 512 bytes per town. It all adds up.
15:51:11 <peter1138[d]> Could use a map instead of an array...
15:58:00 <andythenorth> didn't I remove TE from FIRS?
15:58:41 <andythenorth> mail has TOWNGROWTH_MAIL and pax has TOWNGROWTH_PASSENGERS
15:58:44 <andythenorth> rest are removed
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16:12:27 <peter1138[d]> Ah, now I see the benefit. The valuator version would be a lot of code to duplicate.
16:13:27 <peter1138[d]> Okay, `TownEffect` renamed to `TownAcceptanceEffect`.
16:13:31 <peter1138[d]> No behaviour changes there.
16:13:43 <peter1138[d]> New property will be `TownProductionEffect`
16:13:57 <peter1138[d]> That is pretty clear as to where things apply.
16:14:13 <peter1138[d]> Default passengers and mail will have TPE_PASSENGERS/TPE_MAIL.
16:18:59 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, annoying, I think I need a sentinel for an unset town production effect.
16:21:07 <peter1138[d]> Cargo Spec is a bit odd 😄
16:23:40 <peter1138[d]> Trying to decide when I need to reset this value.
16:24:35 <peter1138[d]> Relying on a specific order of properties is a bit awkward.
16:25:58 <peter1138[d]> Probably it should only be reset if the label is changed.
16:26:21 <peter1138[d]> But nothing say that the label has to be changed first, AFAIK.
16:27:24 <peter1138[d]> Set after loading, I think.
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16:54:34 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, I'll leave the passenger clamp on passenger cargo, that's not really anything to do with towns.
16:57:46 <Rubidium> Yes, those are words ;)
17:04:56 <peter1138[d]> Let's see if this works 😄
17:07:46 <peter1138[d]> this->t->supplied[CT_PASSENGERS].new_max ... not sure how to handle these.
17:08:49 <peter1138[d]> Looks like GS has access to per-cargo values.
17:08:59 <peter1138[d]> But NewGRF only has access to passengers and mail.
17:10:38 <andythenorth> industry sets can maintain their own count via the town registers, at least for cargo accepted by industries in the town
17:10:45 <andythenorth> houses...not so much
17:10:52 <peter1138[d]> For acceptance yes, that's per town effect.
17:10:58 <peter1138[d]> For production is per cargo.
17:11:47 <peter1138[d]> I expected a parameterized varaction to be honest.
17:12:08 <andythenorth> in 2012 there was a specific decision to not allow grf to do this stuff
17:12:14 <andythenorth> and the town grf spec was removed 😛
17:12:23 <andythenorth> probably not related though 😄
17:12:33 <andythenorth> nor useful comment 😛
17:12:51 * andythenorth full Marvin mode
17:13:06 <peter1138[d]> If a NewGRF moves MAIL from slot 2 to slot 15, then returning slot 2 isn't going to be useful.
17:14:16 <peter1138[d]> If a NewGRF makes slot 2 AND slot 15 behave like mail (e.g. letters & packages) then it will produce both... and these variables might want to reflect that.
17:14:37 <peter1138[d]> I'm also not sure what these variables are for 😄
17:15:38 <andythenorth> which vars are they in the spec?
17:18:10 <andythenorth> are they documented in the wiki?
17:26:48 <peter1138[d]> 4C-52 mapped to TownEffect values.
17:28:10 <peter1138[d]> Yes, as distinct from Cola.
17:29:14 <peter1138[d]> Are none of those mapped to NML variables?
17:29:43 <andythenorth> generally town stuff has been discouraged
17:31:03 <andythenorth> 0xCA and 0xCB are mapped to `percent_transported_passengers` and `percent_transported_mail`
17:45:33 <peter1138[d]> Yay, OTIS behaviour stays the same.
17:46:57 <peter1138[d]> _glx_: What was this in relation to>
17:47:30 <_glx_> the image under the message, I forgot discord would put the comment above
17:48:07 <peter1138[d]> That's what I mean, I can see the image but I do know the context.
17:48:50 <_glx_> it's doxygen filter incorrectly parsing ` * left out, as it cannot be used for Subsidies. */`
17:49:21 <_glx_> but this part is in awk, so I won't touch
17:59:34 <peter1138[d]> How do I modify a NewGRF... 😉
18:00:05 <peter1138[d]> Ah ha, ITI has github.
18:01:08 <peter1138[d]> What does NML called town affect...
18:02:20 <peter1138[d]> "town_growth_effect": {"num": 0x18, "size": 1},
18:07:07 <peter1138[d]> openttd_path = "C:/Users/tyler/Documents/OpenTTD/newgrf"
18:08:26 <peter1138[d]> Windows path separators in this build system.
18:10:27 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, this doesn't affect acceptance though, of course.
18:11:04 <peter1138[d]> That's done on a per-house level and is done by cargo id. Hmm.
18:17:12 <talltyler> Cargo acceptance is intentional, houses don't want their neighbors' waste 😉
18:18:20 <peter1138[d]> Does ITI handle that?
18:18:49 <talltyler> Vanilla houses probably accept Waste, but any modern GRF sets acceptance using labels
18:18:58 <talltyler> So they accept MAIL but not WSTE
18:19:48 <peter1138[d]> Oh duh, I have ITL Houses loaded too, of course it's handled.
18:20:10 <peter1138[d]> And it's required 🙂
18:20:25 <talltyler> It shouldn't be anymore, but I may have forgotten to remove that check
18:20:39 <talltyler> If it is, give me five minutes and I'll fix it for you
18:21:35 <peter1138[d]> I've got my own modified ITI that sets the town production effect property anyway.
18:22:47 <talltyler> I'm not seeing the ITI requirement
18:23:20 <peter1138[d]> Heh, seems the git version removes the check, and still calls itself 2.4. But the bananas 2.4 needs it.
18:24:00 <talltyler> I will push an update today
18:24:08 <peter1138[d]> Anyway, my other series of commits will solve this problem of vanilla houses accepting waste.
18:24:18 <talltyler> And fix those path separators 🙂
18:24:20 <peter1138[d]> But those commits get a lot simpler/nicer with this feature.
18:24:59 <peter1138[d]> Patch-by-screenshot lol
18:25:08 <talltyler> `openttd_path = os.path.expanduser("~/Documents/OpenTTD/newgrf")` is generic enough?
18:25:14 <peter1138[d]> That will be all it takes to make ITI waste work.
18:26:00 <peter1138[d]> It's `~/.local/share/openttd/newgrf` on a Linux system.
18:26:13 <talltyler> (I'm copying this from a newer version of the build script, not writing it new) 🙂
18:26:24 <peter1138[d]> But it may be `~/.openttd/newgrf` for some people with ancient installed.
18:26:46 <talltyler> Well, I can at least fix the NMLC command
18:26:53 <peter1138[d]> I would suggest making build and install separate phases.
18:27:07 <peter1138[d]> Not sure if that's easy or not.
18:27:25 <peter1138[d]> Like you do e.g. "make" then "make install"
18:27:44 <talltyler> Not easy enough to justify the time, since this GRF is just in maintenance mode
18:27:54 <talltyler> I only release for bugfixes and new translations
18:28:07 <peter1138[d]> No point in trying to handle all the possible install locations, so just do whatever works for you 🙂
18:28:08 <talltyler> And apparently nobody noticed that 2.4 was actually 2.3 😛
18:29:12 <peter1138[d]> Is that a "well everyone knows about it" issue?
18:32:36 <_glx_> the typical "we work around the issue without telling anybody about the issue"
18:35:19 <talltyler> Gah, forgot a translation PR that I approved and forgot to merge
18:35:25 <_glx_> of course clang is not happy with my PR
18:37:13 <talltyler> I followed OpenTTD in reducing versioning digits, it was silly
18:37:18 <talltyler> Especially for solo projects
18:38:19 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:38:45 <peter1138[d]> Right... do I dare rebase my cargo types patch onto this...
18:43:01 <xarick> I finally got wagon stuff working correctly
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18:43:31 <xarick> a shorter test, 3 companies and default limits
18:43:50 <xarick> I'm still missing aircraft
18:46:04 <xarick> maybe I should account number of wagons into the total vehicles sold?
18:50:43 <xarick> this thing is counting wagons wrong
18:51:01 <talltyler> Huh, I wonder what it would take to play the Locomotion soundtrack in OpenTTD
18:52:29 <xarick> it's counting the front engine
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18:53:00 <xarick> or essentially, the number of vehicles in the train? what do u call them?
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18:54:56 <xarick> this description would be better
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18:56:41 <_zephyris> talltyler: Use a newgrf to add the full tracks as wav files as randomised start sounds for a special train.
18:58:03 <_glx_> I think I'll need to move the templates outside of ScriptList
19:09:32 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, when is it valid to use condition type 0x0B/0x0C in action 7/9...
19:10:31 <peter1138[d]> Skipif can get called before cargo is defined. Hmm.
19:14:52 <peter1138[d]> Lorry Station is a bit weird, tbh.
19:15:38 <talltyler> That's what we call it most places, that PR is just to fix inconsistencies
19:15:39 <peter1138[d]> Even calling all bus RoadStops Bus Stations is a bit weird...
19:16:47 <peter1138[d]> A bus station is generally a large thing, and the drive-through stops would be a bus stop. Except that we can chain them into larger areas...
19:17:22 <peter1138[d]> Problem with lorry stations is there isn't really a realworld thing that mirrors what the game does.
19:17:33 <talltyler> Players call tracks "lanes" all the time, so I think it's more important to be consistent with other modes of transport than to match reality perfectly
19:17:40 <talltyler> peter1138[d]: Yes, this is an odd one
19:18:31 <peter1138[d]> See, I'd argue that 'Lorry loading bay' makes more sense than 'Lorry station'.
19:18:43 <peter1138[d]> Therefore it might make more sense to be consistent and use that term everywhere.
19:21:51 <peter1138[d]> Huh, I assumed the weird bit counting was original-ish code, but no...
19:21:58 <peter1138[d]> Someone designed that later. Weirdo.
19:23:09 <peter1138[d]> Only 5 years old!
19:24:41 <talltyler> Hmm, does renaming other translations mark them as needing updating?
19:24:58 <talltyler> They are outdated but I don't want to invalidate them
19:25:56 <Rubidium> oh, it's trying to make it binominal instead of linear random
19:29:53 <peter1138[d]> I should rename the function to BinominalTownProduceCargo then 🙂
19:29:59 <talltyler> Hmm, I probably don't want to rename strings in other languages
19:36:58 <peter1138[d]> I wonder if there should also be a town production effect multiplier.
19:38:44 <peter1138[d]> _zephyris: is this more useful (or perhaps easier to set up) than the callback stuff that can already do this?
19:43:56 <truebrain> sorry for being a bit harsh here talltyler , but please consider the work translators put into our game 🙂
19:44:14 <truebrain> making things consistent for the users: good idea
19:44:28 <truebrain> making them consistent for us, but annoy the hell out of our translators ...... not a good idea (imo) 🙂
19:46:49 <xarick> since we're on the matter of lists...
19:47:26 <xarick> the API is missing an AirportTypeList
19:49:51 <xarick> airport stuff is a bit lacking actually
19:50:35 <xarick> can't know in advance if an airport will have a hangar
19:52:18 <xarick> get hangar of airport could accept an additional parameter
19:52:41 <truebrain> talltyler: why did you remove the translation change of `STR_LAI_STATION_DESCRIPTION_TRUCK_LOADING_AREA` in your latest push?
19:53:21 <talltyler> Find-and-replace of "loading bay" like an idiot 😛
19:53:31 <truebrain> I was like: there were 4, weren't there?
19:53:34 <truebrain> I thought I was going mental 😛
19:54:07 <truebrain> and same with #11700 btw; but I think you understood that 🙂
19:54:32 <_zephyris> peter1138[d]: Easier to set up IMO. I've tried various things with house production and never made it very far, the callback system was tricky.
19:54:44 <talltyler> Yes, I will update that next
19:54:47 <xarick> also there isn't a real way to know if an airport type can run large planes safely, or is it?
19:56:13 <xarick> we know about AT_SMALL,
19:56:13 <xarick> AT_METROPOLITAN, but we won't know anything about custom airports
19:56:37 <talltyler> Custom airports don't exist, though?
19:56:52 <xarick> they exist opengfx++ airports
19:57:18 <talltyler> But they get their layout from an existing airport
19:57:28 <talltyler> I don't know if that means the airplane size is also the same
19:57:41 <truebrain> sometimes you touch a part of the game, and you are like: this just makes no sense, how ever you slice it 😛
19:57:49 <truebrain> (referring to 11700, showing a big weirdness)
19:58:16 <xarick> those airports get assigned a new type which there's no way to possibly know via API if they can safely run big planes
20:00:42 <xarick> another missing function... does the airport have helipads, the number of them, etc...
20:02:21 <xarick> does the airport have landing strips or whatever they're called, for non-helicopters
20:03:17 <truebrain> If you build a bikeshed, bikeshedding we shall! 😄
20:04:21 <truebrain> and now I shall stop looking at how weird these English texts are ... the more you look .. the more you find 😛
20:04:25 <xarick> also for some reason IsAirportOpen/Closed was placed in GSStation and not in GSAirport
20:04:57 <truebrain> Also this: `Ctrl toggles semaphore/light signals` and a bit later: `Ctrl builds signals up to the next junction`
20:05:03 <truebrain> so ... ctrl does both?
20:05:05 <truebrain> or just one of the two?
20:05:07 <truebrain> WHAT DOES IT MEAN?!
20:05:20 <talltyler> Ctrl+drag builds signals up to the next junction
20:05:29 <truebrain> and toggles .. so pressing it once changes it to semaphore and pressing again changes it back?
20:05:32 <truebrain> or do I need to keep it pressed
20:05:36 <truebrain> I am getting depressed by this sentence 😄
20:05:53 <truebrain> talltyler: I know what the game does 🙂 I am just bitching the string is not actually explaining ... anything here 😛
20:06:06 <peter1138[d]> It depends on whether you are building or clicking on an existing signal.
20:06:16 <peter1138[d]> How do we explain that.
20:06:18 <truebrain> that the string doesn't mention at all 😛
20:06:30 <talltyler> Didn't andythenorth learn about click+drag in the past year or two? I remember the revelation in this channel
20:06:46 <peter1138[d]> Usually in the context of trying to apply liveries to wagons though.
20:07:10 <talltyler> And I am not trying to build a bikeshed, I am trying to fix tooltips that my girlfriend was confused by this morning when I taught her how to play OpenTTD
20:07:18 <talltyler> (we have not broken up yet 🤞 )
20:07:24 <truebrain> and now I am confused about our tooltips 😛
20:07:46 <truebrain> but mostly, why the fuck can't I just build a waypoint without rail ... what made waypoints more special 😛
20:07:58 <talltyler> Seriously though, teaching OpenTTD to someone makes you realize how ungodly many buttons we have and how many useful features are hidden behind the Ctrl modifier
20:08:19 <truebrain> the reason we don't have a 100% positive review: learning the game SUCKS 😛
20:08:27 <talltyler> "Hold ctrl when cloning, because otherwise the feature is almost useless. It's a historical quirk."
20:08:46 <peter1138[d]> What do you mean you want to share orders!?
20:08:54 <truebrain> why would that be your first instinct?! 😛
20:09:13 <talltyler> Someday we'll replace orders with lines and it will be much easier
20:09:15 <xarick> share orders to save the pool
20:09:23 <peter1138[d]> Whose workflow can we break today?
20:09:24 <truebrain> internally we already have the concept of lines
20:09:52 <LordAro> peter1138[d]: my spacebar is fine, thank you
20:10:04 <truebrain> it is a bit cold in here, that is true
20:10:52 <talltyler> locosage: Any interest in finishing #9637 to make 14.0 real spicy? 😄
20:10:53 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, I might need to set up my cargo translation map on the fly instead of afterwards.
20:11:34 <xarick> There should be a GetAirportTile or GetTileOfAirportNotHangar wtv, cus some layouts have the hangar at the top tile
20:11:37 <truebrain> talltyler: did you manage to run a test-game of daylength btw?
20:12:57 <talltyler> truebrain: No, everyone here complained that timekeeping mode should be changeable at any time 😦
20:13:18 <truebrain> "everyone", hihi; that implies a bias 😄
20:14:05 <truebrain> was it a "OMG THIS IS HORRIBLE" complaint, or a typical: "well, while you are at it, I have a great idea, you have to do it, I just drop the idea here"? 😄
20:20:30 <talltyler> `Build waypoint on waypoint` 🤔
20:21:04 <truebrain> talltyler: again, I am fine with `Build waypoint`, I was just surprised how weird that all works 🙂
20:21:15 <truebrain> 2 out of the 5 have to be done on rail, but the other 3 don't
20:21:19 <talltyler> "Build waypoint on railway" works for me
20:21:34 <talltyler> But oof there's so much that can be cleaned up in strings
20:21:36 <truebrain> you can also build a station on a station btw 😛
20:21:39 <peter1138[d]> The reason waypoints can only be placed on existing rail is for UI simplicity.
20:21:41 <talltyler> I fell down the same rabbithole 🙂
20:21:50 <talltyler> Right, waypoints don't have rotations
20:21:59 <peter1138[d]> There is no way to select X or Y direction with waypoints... but mainly because that's not needed.
20:22:00 <truebrain> peter1138[d]: ha! 😄
20:22:06 <peter1138[d]> They DO have rotations, but there's no UI for it.
20:22:18 <talltyler> We could simplify station GUI if we remove the ability to place them without track (and remove rotation UI) 😛
20:22:32 <talltyler> Ah, but trackless station tiles
20:22:37 <peter1138[d]> Works great for non-track tiles ;D
20:22:53 <talltyler> Place those on top of objects 😄
20:23:30 <peter1138[d]> With my unified split-class/type picker, maybe we can create a single UI for it.
20:23:43 <peter1138[d]> But then you'd have to be careful when overbuilding rail to make sure its the correct orientation.
20:24:02 <peter1138[d]> So many spacebars.
20:24:57 <peter1138[d]> Also the apple sauce is 3 years out of date, so this pork is just pork.
20:26:27 <truebrain> oof, who opened so many Squirrel-related bug tickets
20:26:32 <truebrain> most are enhancements
20:26:36 <truebrain> so tempted to just close them all up
20:26:48 <talltyler> Can you convert multiple issues to a single discussion?
20:27:06 <talltyler> I think a Discussion is the proper place for it, but that might be a lot of copy-and-paste
20:27:16 <truebrain> there are, what, 20 "bugs" related to missing GS functionality .. that is not actually useful to keep around, in my opinion 🙂
20:28:07 <peter1138[d]> How do we know what is required?
20:28:16 <talltyler> Ugh, we are so inconsistent with describing Shift and Ctrl behavior, whether it's Ctrl+click or just Ctrl
20:28:29 <truebrain> peter1138[d]: required for?
20:28:39 <peter1138[d]> GS functionality.
20:28:52 <truebrain> "required" is a big word. This was someone working on GSes, and couldn't do what he wanted to do
20:28:56 <truebrain> so he made a lot of tickets for that 🙂
20:29:07 <talltyler> And so many "Shift toggles" ... but I assume toggling is a momentary push of the button, not holding it while clicking
20:29:16 <truebrain> they are all .. feature requests, at best 🙂
20:29:26 <peter1138[d]> Shift should always be estimate cost.
20:29:33 <truebrain> talltyler: yeah, the usage of "toggle" annoys me greatly 🙂
20:29:50 <truebrain> a toggle doesn't change state twice when pressing up/down once 🙂
20:29:53 <truebrain> that is not what a toggle does 😛
20:29:56 <talltyler> peter1138[d]: It is, but the way we describe it in tooltips is inconsistent and weird
20:30:29 <talltyler> I'm like three tangents deep and forgot what I originally set out to fix
20:30:30 <truebrain> just imagine, your lightswitch being an OpenTTD "toggle" .. you have to hold it down for the lights to be on 😄
20:30:35 <truebrain> I am having too much fun with my own jokes 😛
20:31:08 <truebrain> oof, these GS "requests" are also over a year old
20:31:30 <truebrain> moving them to a Discussion is also difficult, as they are all different subjects
20:31:44 <peter1138[d]> town production multiplier... allow more than 100%?
20:32:10 <talltyler> In what context? My PR or GRF spec?
20:33:10 <peter1138[d]> If you have two cargoes with TPE_PASSENGERS, it will create both equally (although separately random)
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20:33:57 <peter1138[d]> Might be useful to have 50/50 or 75/25 or 100/50 or even 150/100 or whatever.
20:34:03 <truebrain> shall I just make it a Discussion category? That might work out best ...
20:34:54 <truebrain> ah, that already works .. okay, going to spam for a bit
20:35:29 <peter1138[d]> Excellent, more closed issues 😉
20:37:05 <peter1138[d]> Oh so it can't just set a flag "issue -> discussion", silly github.
20:38:15 <truebrain> so silly it does it like this ... but okay ...
20:39:04 <truebrain> now they are in a different place, where they can die peacefully 😛
20:39:34 <talltyler> Waypoint PR fixed, plus "build signal on railway" as requested 😄
20:39:55 <truebrain> why did you move `STR_RAIL_TOOLBAR_TOOLTIP_BUILD_RAILROAD_SIGNALS` a few lines down? annoying to see the diff now 😛
20:40:17 <truebrain> not sure it was intentional 🙂
20:40:22 <talltyler> Not intentional, will fix
20:40:24 <truebrain> eints will now make a commit to change the order for EVERY language 😛
20:40:25 <andythenorth> talltyler: it was a great day
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20:42:36 <_glx_> well the way github handles it
20:42:55 <_glx_> you just moved a thing or two
20:43:20 <_glx_> yeah and it sent hundreds of notifications
20:43:59 <truebrain> it also shows how every feature can be described as a bug
20:44:03 <truebrain> (and every bug as a feature)
20:44:58 <truebrain> as I am already spamming ....
20:47:03 <peter1138[d]> Family are weird... "Did you watch x on TV?" no, never heard of it "Oh really, what do you watch on TV?" I... don't?
20:47:14 <peter1138[d]> Like, playing with code is way more entertaining.
20:47:25 <truebrain> peter1138[d]: lolz 😄
20:48:47 <truebrain> _glx_: your last comment in #11667, does that mean the ticket can be closed?
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20:50:15 <_glx_> truebrain: I guess, at least the bug is "fixed" in master
20:51:49 <talltyler> Okay, now to exterminate any mention of the word "toggle" unless it's accurate... 🫡
20:52:00 <truebrain> we will see you in 2 months and 7 days
20:54:59 <truebrain> I should make a social plugin for GOG, but I don't want to read up on yet another SDK 😛
20:56:05 <truebrain> they offer a Steam wrapper; but that feels like cheating our way out 😛
20:57:17 <_zephyris> 2/3 is already impressive progress!
20:57:39 <truebrain> by contract we are kinda obligated to do GOG where we do Steam ... so there is some preasure to get it done
20:57:52 <Rubidium> truebrain: if you got the OpenTTD/building side of the plugin framework, like the Steam one but without the actual steam library and integration, won't there be a GOG-er that want to fill in the few missing bits for you?
20:58:11 <truebrain> who do you know that actively uses GOG? 🙂
20:58:58 <Rubidium> I do not know, I wouldn't even know who actively uses Steam or Discord
20:59:10 <truebrain> #not-of-this-world 😛
21:00:09 <Rubidium> well, that's kinda true since I'm not in the "everyone" set either ;)
21:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> remember when social messengers shared a common protocol?
21:02:18 <truebrain> okay ... so it has been a while since I launched GOG .. I click on OpenTTD, first thing I see, is a screenshot of an OpenTTD clone ...
21:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> truebrain: means their targeted advertising is working?
21:03:41 <truebrain> ah, that is for the Steam variant of OpenTTD on GOG (still with me?) .. they seem to augment those screenshots with screenshots users upload
21:03:44 <truebrain> that I cannot help ...
21:03:46 <Rubidium> oh, I know someone who's actively using GOG :D
21:03:58 <truebrain> 2 letters for you Rubidium
21:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> F to pay respects, and U to... ?
21:04:44 <truebrain> you will figure it out
21:05:35 <truebrain> my friendlist on GOG is just empty
21:06:24 <truebrain> trying to figure out where I can see the Rich Presence .. hmmm
21:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i've got steam for like 15 years, and have about 3 friends :)
21:07:07 <Rubidium> I'm not sure what fluorine and uranium have to do with it. They're not really my type :)
21:07:22 <truebrain> what is your type ... `int32_t` I am guessing
21:08:01 <xarick> found a "not-really-a-bug" -> GetHangarOfAirport should return ::ScriptMap::TILE_INVALID instead of INVALID_TILE
21:08:04 <Eddi|zuHause> one is a metal and one is an alkaloid, that's both ends of the spectrum...
21:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause> what types are left inbetween?
21:08:27 <truebrain> they are called ELEMENTS, you weirdos
21:08:30 <_zephyris> truebrain: Contracts on FOSS 😒
21:08:48 <truebrain> _zephyris: It is okay, really.
21:09:09 <_zephyris> I'm sure its quite a non-contract contract, and it's a great service on their oart
21:09:25 <talltyler> Today in I Learned A New Feature: you can right-click on vehicles in the depot and a tooltip appears to tell you its name. You can Ctrl+Click to show capacities of other vehicles in the consist -- but only those behind the vehicle you clicked on
21:09:56 <truebrain> because someone had a very personal itch, I am sure 🙂
21:09:57 <Rubidium> a missing v->First()?
21:10:02 <talltyler> No, it's intentional
21:10:11 <talltyler> The tooltip says so (and I am editing the tooltip 😛 )
21:10:25 <talltyler> Trying to standardize how we describe the use of Ctrl and Shift modifiers
21:10:57 <peter1138[d]> git blame helps.
21:11:07 <peter1138[d]> "You wrote this? YOU document it!"
21:11:27 <peter1138[d]> Nope. Not that one.
21:12:03 <andythenorth> oh wow that right click 🙂
21:12:15 <truebrain> joy, GOG has no Linux support; saves me one platform at least 🙂
21:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently i got 1800 achievement over all my steam games
21:12:56 <truebrain> and the SDK is only available after logging in .. grr .. that will make automating annoying .. same with Steam SDK
21:13:26 <truebrain> I take that back: the link is only available after login
21:13:29 <truebrain> the file is publically available 😛
21:14:24 <truebrain> hihi, Windows archives as .tar.gz .. that always makes me giggle 🙂
21:14:31 <truebrain> how many people will have issues opening that? 😛
21:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> does windows support that meanwhile?
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21:17:54 <_heresy> W11 recently added native support for multiple new formats, including .tar.gz
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21:34:46 <peter1138[d]> Well, that's multiplied... 100x :p
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21:35:42 <talltyler> Another hidden feature, Ctrl+Click on the vehicle group button to show only the list without the groups menu
21:36:04 <peter1138[d]> Yes, or vice-versa depending on the setting.
21:36:32 <talltyler> Ugh, why is that a setting
21:36:56 <peter1138[d]> Well, not everyone uses groups.
21:37:48 <talltyler> I'm just mad because it says "toggle" and I have to write a new string 🙂
21:39:03 <andythenorth> where even is the vehicle group button?
21:39:10 <andythenorth> oh vehicles list
21:39:28 <andythenorth> that's to support legacy player compatibility
21:54:07 <peter1138[d]> Breakin the rules.
21:55:42 <_glx_> had to rework #11670 to hide SQVM internals, but compilers seem happy now
21:56:21 <_glx_> wow never seen that one
21:57:12 <xarick> function ends at line 1239
21:57:24 <_glx_> the limit seems to be 255
21:58:32 <xarick> let me try with 14 companies
21:58:49 <xarick> doesn't compile, doesn't even need companies
21:59:31 <xarick> how do i count the number of locals?
22:02:26 <_glx_> you could play with scoping so unused variables are removed earlier
22:03:39 <Rubidium> or use functions instead of nesting a proverbial million levels deep
22:05:52 <xarick> many of these locals are repeats
22:08:48 <_glx_> `local max_groups = 64000;` if the value never changes after you can replace with `const max_groups = 64000;`
22:20:22 <talltyler> Not sure if that's `Cleanup` or `Change`, but I was told not to use `Change` for everything in the past, so I picked something else 😄
22:21:40 <truebrain> Best reason after 😛
22:24:26 <talltyler> Well, I've been very busy today and never even got to the PR I intended to update... 🙃
22:25:12 <talltyler> Oh, there's the original tangent I went on, waiting on my stash
22:27:38 <xarick> there are consts in squirrel?
22:29:58 <xarick> nice, I'm almost done with this script
22:33:23 <talltyler> Okay, that's my git stash emptied out
22:42:22 <truebrain> talltyler: So now that is done, test game when?
22:43:39 <talltyler> I still have to remove the time settings from worldgen and experiment with making the time mode changeable…although I would rather not bother
22:44:03 <truebrain> I also want a unicorn, but sometimes we get what we get 🙂
22:47:24 <_glx_> but not controllable by the script itself
22:48:10 <peter1138[d]> What do you mean?
22:51:02 <_glx_> I don't think it should be possible to not generate news message during play, but disabling them during map generation makes sense
22:52:12 <_glx_> map generator doesn't fire news when placing industries, so GS during mapgen loop should not fire them either
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22:54:38 <truebrain> Easy solution: clear news after map generation .. kinda thought that is how it worked already 😛
22:54:58 <truebrain> Nice Rubidium, glad you took the time for review 🙂
22:55:05 <xarick> almost... damned effect vehicles
22:55:11 <reldred> now approve the newbridges PR *ducks*
22:55:50 <peter1138[d]> Can clients join MP while GS is in mapgen loop? (I didn't know there is a mapgen loop for GS)
22:56:53 <peter1138[d]> newbridges is pretty weird, probably needs reworking.
22:57:40 <reldred> how so? the action structure is a bit more like newstations but is that necesarily a bad thing?
22:58:09 <reldred> it'll be abstracted into oblivion by nml anyway
22:58:16 <_glx_> it's inside _GenerateWorld() so no, clients can't join at this point
23:00:43 <xarick> My group size counter and switch failed by 20 😦
23:01:08 <xarick> should be 300k ungrouped vehicles
23:01:41 <truebrain> How did a compiler accept that .. `*/* .. */` .. odd
23:01:47 <peter1138[d]> reldred: it's definitely too much for one commit, for sure.
23:01:55 <peter1138[d]> And action 3/2/1 tilelayouts would be better imho.
23:02:18 <truebrain> Owh, a pointer and a commented variable name
23:04:44 * andythenorth must to sleeping
23:05:04 <peter1138[d]> You might turn into a princess?
23:07:17 <peter1138[d]> Adding bridge pool. Changing how bridge indicators are stored on the map. Adding grf-local bridge specs. Adding action 3/2/1 bridges.
23:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> where did the thing about pumpkins get introduced in that story?
23:07:46 <peter1138[d]> Probably Disney.
23:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> because that wasn't in the version i heard as a kid
23:08:20 <peter1138[d]> reldred: I do actually want to look at it, but... other changes as well.
23:08:42 <reldred> peter1138[d]: isn't it only a thousand lines? certainly not the biggest PR waiting.
23:08:51 <reldred> "only" yes yes... I know...
23:09:29 <_glx_> the most important part is defining a sane spec
23:09:31 <peter1138[d]> Only a thousand lines of difficult to understand changes, yes.
23:09:47 <_glx_> not writing the spec while implementing 🙂
23:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> any change over 10 lines is "big" :p
23:10:00 <reldred> should be fine, bash that out in an arvo /s
23:10:01 <peter1138[d]> Frosch as "written" the spec 😉
23:10:19 <_glx_> should end better than NRT then 😉
23:10:50 <peter1138[d]> Yeah, sorry about that. They pressured me 😦
23:11:30 <peter1138[d]> This PR introduces bridge pool... but doesn't explain why as far as I can see.
23:12:12 <peter1138[d]> Xarick can have fun maxing out the number of bridges I suppose.
23:13:03 <reldred> Did NRT really end so badly in the end? Like I know it wasn't the 'perfect' outcome or the 'perfect' spec, but I still think it had an overall positive influence on the game
23:13:18 <peter1138[d]> It made some devs rage-quit so... yeah.
23:14:50 <reldred> Personally, if someone is going to rage quit over something, they would have rage quit over something else at some stage anyway if they didn't get their way.
23:15:01 <wensimehrp> STR_TOOLBAR_TOOLTIP_BUILD_RAILROAD_TRACK :{BLACK}Build railway track
23:15:01 <wensimehrp> STR_TOOLBAR_TOOLTIP_BUILD_ROADS :{BLACK}Build roads
23:15:01 <wensimehrp> STR_TOOLBAR_TOOLTIP_BUILD_TRAMWAYS :{BLACK}Build tramways
23:15:01 <wensimehrp> STR_TOOLBAR_TOOLTIP_BUILD_SHIP_DOCKS :{BLACK}Build ship docks
23:15:03 <wensimehrp> STR_TOOLBAR_TOOLTIP_BUILD_AIRPORTS :{BLACK}Build airports
23:15:05 <wensimehrp> when the player clicks on the button, they might want to build a depot or something but not specifically roads or tracks. I personally think that changing them into `display road building menu` would be better. (that's what the old zh_cn translators did)
23:15:05 <wensimehrp> Nonetheless this is just a minor change and it won't really affect anything.
23:15:07 <wensimehrp> Also, shouldn't it be `build railways` or `build railway tracks`?
23:15:37 <reldred> Speaking long term, like really long term, do you as a project always want to let yourself be held ransom to people throwing tantrums? I know you don't let yourself be held ransom by my dummy spits 😛
23:15:47 <peter1138[d]> wensimehrp: comment on the PR? 🙂
23:16:06 <peter1138[d]> (I know I'm doing just not that with bridges, but...)
23:16:22 <reldred> well, it's more of a general conversation anyway
23:17:38 <reldred> Also, in regards to your jab a night or two ago, I'm wouldn't say that I'm averse to porting any of my JGR PR's to OpenTTD, I just don't see many/any of them being really applicable? They're all pretty darn niche.
23:18:02 <peter1138[d]> Sorry I thought i you were making comments about string changes being already proposed...
23:18:23 <peter1138[d]> reldred: not a jab at all.
23:18:27 <reldred> Anyway, I'm not out to pick a fight today 🙂
23:18:57 <_jgr_> I've got plenty of things that i could PR, but I don't really want to waste everyone's time on things which aren't wanted or won't go anyway
23:19:26 <reldred> I think there is definitely some merit to OpenTTD being conservative about what features it adds,
23:20:00 <reldred> Gameplay features, sure, moddability/extendability features? not so much.
23:21:38 <truebrain> reldred: Be careful with these kind of statements, and don't confuse who was throwing tantrums.. the people that do are rarely the people that leave .. the people that leave are the ones you are actually missing. Those who throw tantrums often stay ...
23:21:43 <reldred> Seeing the modding ecosystem get split by forks supporting different feature sets I think would long term be a bad thing, not that I think it ended up too badly with say road stops; got prototyped in JGRPP, content got made, tested, spec got backported to Master, with content in the pipeline ready to go.
23:22:03 <reldred> truebrain: No I'm more refering to my experience in the corporate world.
23:22:11 <reldred> Again, not out to pick fights today.
23:22:36 <truebrain> Not saying you are, just a word of warning, to be careful with these kind of statements 🙂
23:24:31 <truebrain> Also, in my experience the same happens in corporate world .. those that leave are the ones you want to stay .. the ones you fire are the ones you want to go 😛
23:24:37 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
23:25:08 <reldred> Mmm, hasn't been quite so much at this place I'm at.
23:25:17 <reldred> Firing people is too damn hard anyway
23:27:06 <truebrain> And the troublemakers know 😄
23:28:25 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, what happens if you assign the same cargo label to multiple cargos...
23:28:39 <truebrain> Weird shit, I imagine 😛
23:29:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i would assume either the second definition gets ignored or merged with the first somehow
23:32:26 <peter1138[d]> I need to make sure I implement the 'weird shit' in the same way 🙂
23:34:13 <peter1138[d]> Okay, GetCargoIDByLabel() will use the definition with the lowest CargoID.
23:38:07 <peter1138[d]> Oof. All sorts of complications with making cargo types inactive too.
23:39:01 <peter1138[d]> Probably simpler to keep the loop-based version during initialization, and then switch to the map-based version during the game.
23:44:16 <reldred> Ugh. We gotta hire some more juniors this year.
23:44:44 <reldred> One of our seniors is retiring, and we're promoting our junior to field tech
23:51:02 <truebrain> Okay, GOG Galaxy support seems straight forward.. First tomorrow fixing MacOS signing, then completing the plugins, then moving it into the OpenTTD space 🙂
23:51:10 <truebrain> Should be done before beta1 🙂
23:51:17 <reldred> Kinda looking forward to it
23:51:30 <truebrain> It is not much yet .. no multiplayer etc
23:51:49 <reldred> Having Discord recognise I'm at least playing OpenTTD/JGRPP is still something 😄
23:52:21 <reldred> How's the survey coming along? getting good data?
23:52:25 <truebrain> It already can! 🙂 Discord own detection is pretty good
23:52:37 <reldred> is there a grafana dashboard yet? 😛
23:53:17 <reldred> that reminds me, I've got a survey internally I need to build a dashboard for
23:55:26 *** tabytac has joined #openttd
23:55:26 <tabytac> how do you opt-in to the survey?
23:57:00 <reldred> ahh, 14.2% true believers
23:58:56 <reldred> That's brave, I don't even usually go as high as 25x
23:59:46 <reldred> So cool seeing how people use the features I've added to worldgen
continue to next day ⏵
