IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-12-21
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09:23:24 <andythenorth> goes it add a column for 'has statue'?
09:23:49 <andythenorth> hmm does GS storybook have sortable tables yet?
09:24:04 <andythenorth> peter1138: current compay, I asssumed
09:24:16 <andythenorth> such a great mechanic this one
09:25:39 <andythenorth> think I preferred who's
09:25:59 <andythenorth> I think it's also grammatically correct, if the question is "Who's built a statue?"
10:24:31 <peter1138> Hmm, do I need all these user authorization checks...
10:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there will always be an unauthorized remote execution hiding
10:38:08 <peter1138> Alright, FTTP is available here now.
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10:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> fibre to the porch? :p
10:42:05 <peter1138> We go with premises, presumably it might not be a home.
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10:44:01 <peter1138> I can keep my current 80/20 on FTTP for £0 extra. Generous ;)
10:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the last time we got a speed upgrade, it got 5€ cheaper
10:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it got from 16/1 to 50/10
10:49:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't felt the need for anything faster since then
10:57:35 <xarick> found a little problem
10:57:47 <xarick> Text begins over the border
11:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> literally unplayable.
11:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but really, that should be a github issue
11:59:57 <_glx_> Strange I didn't had the issue (or didn't notice it)
12:03:22 <_glx_> At least I don't think adding the scrollbar caused it
12:19:17 <peter1138> If it's scrolled to the right slighty, that'll do it :)
12:19:29 <peter1138> Widgets are clipped to the whole widget, not to just inside the bevel.
12:19:37 <peter1138> (See the recent picker sprite change :))
12:19:57 <peter1138> Definitely totally unplayable though.
12:20:30 <peter1138> Which reminds me, at least one of the scrollable windows uses frametext clipping, which is HUGE and looks a bit odd.
12:20:39 <peter1138> Goals or Storybook, I think.
12:43:16 <_glx_> Ah yes, could be the change from implicit tr.left to -hscroll
12:44:16 <_glx_> I admit I mostly looked on right side when testing
12:50:59 <_glx_> Oh it's even visible in the screenshot in PR description
12:51:17 <talltyler> Oops, bad reviewer 🙂
12:51:31 <talltyler> Needs padding calculated on the left, maybe?
12:51:40 <_glx_> But it didn't bother me as the scrollbar is to see what's on the right
12:55:36 <_glx_> I partly copied drawing from TextfileWindow IIRC, but didn't really check left side their either
13:02:27 <talltyler> Huh, I had no idea that was even a thing
13:02:46 <emperorjake> Unfortunately, the randomise button is well beyond my coding abilities yet, but I hope to see it happen someday
13:15:35 <peter1138> FillDrawPixel now takes a Rect, so setting up the clipping area is easier.
13:16:10 <peter1138> Is it possible to switch from one performance monitor to another and will it not count the time taken twice?
13:17:11 <peter1138> Hmm, actually that would not work as I'd need to start using accumulators. Bums.
13:25:06 <xarick> erm... glx, found another issue, maybe, need to verify in 13.4
13:25:27 <xarick> scrolling up a page of text
13:25:47 <xarick> seems to skip some lines
13:29:57 <xarick> oh, 13.4 doesn't have AsyncMode yet 😦
13:31:22 <peter1138> emperorjake, there are ways to force DOSBox to do pixel-perfect scaling, btw :)
13:31:45 <peter1138> I have dosbox-staging, but there's also another modernised version that does it.
13:32:04 <emperorjake> I'm just using an in-browser version
13:33:32 <emperorjake> The first one I tried claimed to be TTD but it was actually an old version of OpenTTD
13:54:53 <peter1138> I found a bug! The company league table isn't updated when a new company starts.
13:55:45 <emperorjake> I noticed that too actually
13:59:24 <xarick> that's intended, I suppose
13:59:52 <xarick> nevermind, I missed the sarcasm
14:01:42 <xarick> I thought you were referring to the custom league tables
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14:04:23 <peter1138> I keep mistyping category as cargo.
14:04:38 <peter1138> This will end up with me trying to explain to my boss what a cargotype is.
14:08:49 <xarick> I'm too dumb at this...
14:08:49 <xarick> ` local version = GSController.GetVersion();
14:08:49 <xarick> local revision_number = (version & (1 << (19 - 1))) >> 0; // 0-18 revision number (0 == revision is unknown)
14:08:49 <xarick> local is_a_release = (version & (1 << (20 - 1))) >> 19; // 19 (1 == release version, 0 == not a release version)
14:08:49 <xarick> local minor_version = (version & (1 << (24 - 1))) >> 20; // 20-23 (minor version)
14:08:50 <xarick> local major_version = ((version & (1 << (32 - 1))) >> 24) - 16; // 24-31 (major version + 16)`
14:12:23 <xarick> ah, suddenly, I got it
14:13:15 <xarick> parenthesis is my weakness
14:16:02 <_glx_> Main question is why all these -1 in your bitshifting ?
14:21:02 <xarick> isn't this how it's done?
14:21:43 <xarick> major_version = ((version & ((1 << 32) - 1)) >> 24) - 16;
14:21:48 <xarick> with correct parenthesis
14:21:57 <peter1138> That is NOT the same as (1 << (32 - 1))
14:23:29 <talltyler> emperorjake: Wrong branch? 🙂
14:25:01 <peter1138> I just found I'd been committing a load of stuff to main instead of a branch :D
14:25:10 <peter1138> No biggy, it's only my local main, but still.
14:27:13 <emperorjake> Hm, I didn't know that would affect an existing PR, still a bit new to this stuff 😅
14:37:11 <talltyler> Heheh you’re making a mess 😛
14:37:30 <talltyler> Try an interactive rebase to drop all the commits after the one you want
14:37:58 <talltyler> `git rebase -i head~4` should be enough (goes back four commits)
14:38:43 <talltyler> To update with changes from master, you’ll want to rebase, not merge
14:39:38 <talltyler> Assuming you set your remotes following the instructions in CONTRIBUTING.md, it’s `git fetch upstream` and then `git rebase upstream/master`
15:01:39 <xarick> I wanna see if I can extract more performance from AreTilesQueued
15:08:13 <xarick> instead of checking 1 tile at a time, I'd like it to jump right to the tile that matters, or just skip the entire side
15:22:37 <talltyler> Did you click update on the PR? You’ll have to `git pull` those to your conputer before you can rebase them away
15:24:47 <emperorjake> It's past 2am and I need sleep
15:24:52 <emperorjake> <a:thisisfine:1065477838549033031>
15:32:05 <andythenorth> I know there’s money cheat, but would we consider uncapping starting money? Watching one of my kids play
15:32:41 <merni> there's a cap on starting money?
15:34:34 <merni> wait, where do you even set the value of starting money?
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15:49:24 <peter1138> You can the max loan, which is almost the same thing.
15:49:53 <peter1138> Capped at £2,000,000,000.
15:50:18 <andythenorth> child hates borrowing money
15:50:22 <andythenorth> doesn't like paying interest
15:50:59 <peter1138> Do we have government bailouts follows by selling off to foreign TOCs?
15:51:11 <andythenorth> actual problem he has is FIRS not generating enough of some industry types 😛
15:51:20 <andythenorth> and he won't use scenario editor to place them
15:51:24 <andythenorth> or use money cheat
15:51:35 <peter1138> Could I host andythenorth's MBP with 1000/115 internet?
15:51:42 <peter1138> Such asymmetric though :(
15:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'm sorta wondering why chinese TOCs haven't bought into it yet.
15:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> at least as far as i've seen, only major european TOCs have carved into each others markets
16:19:44 <talltyler> You can set loan interest rate, right? We could add a 0% interest rate option pretty easily to the existing setting
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16:24:04 <andythenorth> fair point, not a bad idea
16:24:16 <andythenorth> it's currently capped 2% - 4% range
16:24:29 <andythenorth> goes it throw out arbitrary range?
16:24:45 <andythenorth> commercial interest in the UK right now is about 14% on business lending 😛
16:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> talltyler: you first need to change the hardcoded 1% difference between income and cost inflation
16:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (which actually makes 2% harder than 4%)
16:32:25 <andythenorth> just delete inflation 😛
16:34:06 <xarick> how does that work with breakdowns?
16:34:44 <wensimehrp> *Open No Ressha De Ikou*
16:42:30 <talltyler> Yeah, allowing any percent of loan interest seems like a cheap way to allow more gameplay styles
16:43:10 <talltyler> Both free loan as well as a more brutal economy where the interest really eats you. You know, for Balance
16:45:12 <frosch123> town-authority-action "spread inflation panik": raise inflation by 50% for 3 months
16:45:19 <locosage> lol, was thinking of extending loan interest just yesterday
16:45:42 <locosage> also, I too hate borrowing money
16:46:01 <locosage> because that's the thing I have to do at the start of every game and always full loan
16:46:02 <talltyler> Heh, I’m away for the holidays but will happily review if you want to take the lead on making a PR
16:46:10 <locosage> except on citymania where server borrows for you :p
16:47:31 <Timberwolf> Would be nice to expose the rates and maximum allowed loan to GS.
16:48:03 <frosch123> GS can read and modify all game settings
16:48:26 <Timberwolf> Oh! I've obviously missed that.
16:49:00 <frosch123> Timberwolf: yeah, it's kind of hidden: you have to search for "settings", not for "inflation" 🙂
16:49:13 <locosage> frosch123: except settings aren't stable so it only works until someone changes something
16:50:56 <_glx_> it can change between versions
16:52:45 <locosage> well, tutorial gs is probably the only one relying on gui stuff
16:53:27 <locosage> mp gui like story book/goals/league table is stable
16:54:12 <_glx_> yeah by GUI I mean highlighting and stuff
16:59:07 <peter1138> Interest/Inflation would be nice if GS could independently control them.
17:01:16 <peter1138> Correction, sounds like it might be nice, but is probably terrible in practice.
17:02:17 <peter1138> Pay "the bank" to fix your interest rate for 5 years.
17:07:28 <xarick> `if (_openttd_version.major_version >= 14) local async = GSAsyncMode(true);`
17:07:28 <xarick> How can I make this work as intended for both 13.4 and current master? 13.4 doesn't have a GSAsyncMode function. For that part, this works the script won't crash. But then on master, I don't get the Async running in true mode 😦
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17:08:54 <xarick> also tried `local async = GSAsyncMode(_openttd_version.major_version >= 14);` but crashes on 13.4
17:10:47 <andythenorth> hmm related to the 'why?' of free money....and also a discussion in discord #opentttd
17:11:12 <andythenorth> wonder if we could have a pre-game-start mode, where player can optionally generate more industries, or otherwise modify the map
17:11:40 <andythenorth> map gen usually requires 30 or 40 attempts to get a viable map with the more complex versions of FIRS
17:12:05 <andythenorth> I sometimes save an ok map and change .scn and manually edit, then change back to .sav
17:12:15 <andythenorth> I tried explaining this to a 13 year old and he just looked baffled
17:15:43 <_jgr_> xarick: Move the declaration of the local outside of the if
17:16:04 <andythenorth> hmm my idea above....not trolling here, that's actually one of the better cases for a GS
17:16:14 <andythenorth> there's nearly enough UI controls to do it
17:16:18 <peter1138> 17:11 < andythenorth> wonder if we could have a pre-game-start mode, where player can optionally generate more industries, or otherwise modify the map
17:16:24 <peter1138> That's called "scenario editor"
17:16:37 <andythenorth> GS can pause, use deity mode for money, and ask player questions, and allow player to choose a tile
17:16:44 <andythenorth> just a bit...clunky
17:16:49 <peter1138> Now, switching between normal mode and scenario mode might be a thing?
17:16:57 <peter1138> (without reloading)
17:17:37 <andythenorth> none of the 'more sandbox' or 'more trainset' features ever seem to go wrong 🙂
17:22:09 <xarick> is that separation gonna be for AIs too?
17:23:34 <xarick> i hope ships get it working nicely
17:23:54 <xarick> they tend to climb into each other
17:41:21 <locosage> andythenorth: I think I got pretty consistent steeltown generation with just some mapgen tweaks on citymania server
17:56:59 <merni> frosch123: New disaster: "Liz Truss"
18:00:37 <andythenorth> locosage: most of my maps contain port industries in tiny lakes
18:00:43 <andythenorth> or jinx town names
18:01:17 <andythenorth> my GS tries to fix most of the FIRS-specific problems by adding missing industries, but it can't fix the ports
18:01:37 <locosage> that's not something I was concerned about...
18:01:48 <locosage> though lakes are usually decent coz I'm using custom terragen
18:02:13 <andythenorth> maybe I should just write a circular tile search in grf
18:02:19 <andythenorth> and count water tiles
18:02:47 <locosage> doesn't need to be circular if you want count anyway
18:02:48 <andythenorth> or maybe it would be enough to walk out in 8 compass directions
18:03:08 <locosage> can do random sampling xD
18:03:10 <andythenorth> if it can go 64 tiles of water in any compass direction, it's probbaly big enough
18:03:27 <andythenorth> what happened to the GS pylon placement library? 😛
18:03:34 <andythenorth> it would be much faster now with async
18:03:40 <locosage> well, pattern sampling would be more realistic approach in grf
18:03:53 <locosage> idk, I didn't touch pylons since
18:06:04 <locosage> didn't even bother doing pylons for citymania yet
18:06:24 <locosage> maybe for next steeltown event....
18:07:06 <locosage> power lines as tram type xD
18:44:06 <locosage> can action 2 read grf parameters?
18:44:17 <locosage> without having smth like action6 before I mean
18:46:47 <peter1138> I was looking at GetGlobalVariable.
18:47:07 <peter1138> About 4 lines before the GetGlobalVariable call :)
18:47:57 <peter1138> Okay. MP3 decoding. Soxr resampling. 32-FP mixing. What else?
18:52:37 <andythenorth> doppler effect on train running sounds?
18:53:42 <peter1138> Stereo positioning?
18:54:01 <peter1138> I'm sure I did that once but... doubt I have the patch for it.
18:56:35 <_zephyris> Zoom level volume decrease, or is that done now?
18:57:05 <peter1138> It's not been changed.
18:58:27 <andythenorth> I thought stereo positioning happened already? 🙂
18:58:31 <peter1138> i.e. it has always done that. but when we added zoom in levels we made x2 and x4 be the same volume as x1.
18:58:35 <Rubidium> sound focus around the mouse pointer?
18:58:51 <peter1138> andythenorth, panning from left to right is there, but that's not stereo positioning.
18:59:23 <alfagamma7> andythenorth: Would be nice
18:59:27 <peter1138> Stereo positioning needs to delay samples per channel by x-amount depending on pan.
19:00:10 <peter1138> Doppler is funny because there is never a time when a sound is passing you.
19:01:43 <Rubidium> what about realistic sound? When you're zoomed out far, then the train starting is much farther away, so it should be delayed (much) more than when you are zoomed in :D
19:02:47 <Rubidium> zoom out a lot, and bomb some trees... you'll hear the boom (quite silently) in say 3 seconds
19:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> am i misremembering or do we already make sounds more silent in zoom out?
19:06:23 <peter1138> Rubidium, ah, simply change the samples per period to delay sounds :)
19:06:38 <peter1138> Hmm, my MP3 decoding is not right.
19:07:49 <peter1138> The very short 'bip' sound has some noise at the end. Hmm.
19:26:54 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe decode the file to see if it's embedded incorrectly. Probably not.
19:31:32 <andythenorth> hmm signals on bridges?
19:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> there are no bridges
19:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (which is the majority of the problem)
19:33:41 <andythenorth> Flat Bridge Variants?
19:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> not solving any problems.
19:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> there are two main problems with (sane) signals on bridges (and, in passing, tunnels): storage and UI.
19:40:03 <talltyler> And technical problems are usually easier to solve than user experience problems, in my experience
19:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the technical problem is mostly philosophical: as in, do we actually WANT that solution
19:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (like, stacked tiles, off-map storage, ...)
19:44:36 <andythenorth> it's easier just to raise land over sea
19:45:06 <andythenorth> nobody should be needing a bridge longer than 4 tiles anyway
19:45:19 <andythenorth> if I replaced that with tunnels, it would be fine
19:45:52 <andythenorth> also if players would just stick to 'one train per line' per TTD
19:45:57 <andythenorth> bridges could be any length
19:47:47 <peter1138> The NewGRF bridges PR adds off-map storage for bridges.
19:47:56 <peter1138> But the way that is looked up is a bit weird.
19:49:16 <andythenorth> it's a bad idea, but signals on bridgehead tiles would be somewhat useful 😛
19:49:21 <andythenorth> terrible idea though
19:49:44 <andythenorth> hmmm modular bridges 😛
19:56:54 <peter1138> I think "give bridges off-map storage" and then "store all bridge signals off map" is possible. And doesn't special-case the bridge heads.
19:57:09 <peter1138> "Why can we only have signals on bridge heads!? This is literally unplayable.
19:59:47 <peter1138> Okay, there's noise even with my earlier patch. Hmm
20:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> one imaginary scenario i have: a bridge head with a junction, a bridge middle with a signal, and a bridge head with a station tile on it
20:01:47 <andythenorth> hmm Horse engine progression
20:02:26 <andythenorth> /me back to building optimised networks
20:04:38 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, bridge head sub tiles then.
20:05:04 <peter1138> I mean, that's not actually stupid.
20:05:05 <andythenorth> 'fund new buildings' does nothing if popn is 0 😄
20:05:50 <peter1138> Hmm, that map layers patch... I think that was ... a bit old by now.
20:07:02 <andythenorth> but some of the tiles actually contain cargo for primaries, in countable quantities 😛
20:07:29 <andythenorth> so you could mine stuff
20:07:34 <andythenorth> then maybe craft it
20:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and UFOs are the new creepers?
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20:18:28 <andythenorth> one day I'll learn to play properly
20:18:48 <_jgr_> If you're having fun, then it's proper 🙂
20:21:45 <andythenorth> I do wish flat junctions were easier to build sometimes 😛
20:27:45 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe 5 frames is too short for an mp3 file...
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21:12:35 <peter1138> Hmm, next step, convert 32bpp sprites to 8bpp even with 32bpp blitters? heh
21:13:34 <locosage> I do it for 32bpp recolours but it's probably better to just implement LUT
21:15:10 <locosage> though iirc there was some recoloring thing in newgrf format that only 8bpp-simple supported
21:16:07 <locosage> custom "transparent" recolour or smth
21:16:30 <peter1138> Yes, you can provide a recolour sprite.
21:16:43 <locosage> smth smth glass roofs on stations smth
21:17:11 <peter1138> Used by BM_TRANSPARENT mode, e.g. to make the newspaper viewport monochrome.
21:17:49 <peter1138> Maybe we can use the RGB to palette look up to support that :D
21:18:09 <peter1138> Could be slow but...
21:18:44 <locosage> actually, even without transparent mode, adding recolour to 32bpp sprite doesn't work iirc
21:18:55 <locosage> having 32 to 8bpp can fix that
21:19:37 <peter1138> The transparent mode only draws the "transparent" overlay, no solid pixels.
21:19:51 <peter1138> To do that, you just draw another solid layer on top.
21:21:17 <peter1138> BM_TRANSPARENT does not do anything with the source pixels other than checking it's not 0.
21:21:34 <peter1138> Basically a mask of where to apply the remap.
21:22:28 <peter1138> Now, given that probably the only NewGRF that does use this is MB's newstats...
21:22:58 <peter1138> I like the fact we left it as a TODO :)
21:23:33 <locosage> yeah, and I stumbled on that TODO like 10 years ago
21:23:36 <locosage> don't remember much xD
21:34:45 <peter1138[d]> It didn't work for a bit, and that's because I forgot to actually apply the remap.
21:35:04 <peter1138[d]> So it was doing a palette lookup and replacing it with... the same colour.
21:35:18 <peter1138[d]> Not exactly the same but close enough that I couldn't notice it.
21:35:26 <peter1138[d]> Right, now to find newstats...
21:36:45 <peter1138> Heh, there's an grf parameter for "no green glass"
21:40:06 <xarick> is that using AI for upscaling?
21:42:02 <peter1138[d]> No, it's OpenGFX2 Hi Def
21:42:26 <peter1138[d]> Oh, and some of it was the "real 32bpp" graphics stuff.
21:42:34 <peter1138[d]> So... it almost works. Weird blue pixels.
21:42:49 <peter1138[d]> Perhaps I should compare with 8bpp mode 🙂
21:43:35 <peter1138[d]> Okay, that's the same.
21:52:36 <xarick> Worst case scenario. 64x4096 dimensions
21:52:43 <xarick> reduced it to 51 ticks
21:53:13 <wensimehrp> What's this gs for?
21:53:47 <xarick> it was for expanding a town and placing airports for noise, but I got distracted
21:54:05 <xarick> I was attempting to overflow town_noise
21:55:50 <xarick> I found that airports were constraining town expansion at some point, so I went to creating a way to optimally place airports but it would require scanning very large portions of the map, very slow searching
21:56:18 <xarick> ended up here, optimizing the search instead
21:57:44 <xarick> I think I didn't lose track of my goal
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22:00:52 <peter1138> Okay, not sure how the modify the SSE blitter. Probably "don't bother trying to write SSE code"
22:05:02 <peter1138> Oof, they came out large.
22:06:55 <peter1138> This tells me I need to move the 32bpp-to-palette lookup somewhere a bit more generic.
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22:45:36 <andythenorth> one day I'll make a grf
22:45:53 <andythenorth> when did I last make a grf?
22:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> at this point, would it really hurt so much to declare 8bpp deprecated and not bother with conversion?
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23:09:16 <xarick> 8342 - is it breakdown friendly?
23:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm having little faith in autoseparation
23:40:27 <emperorjake> It has its limits but it's still an incredibly useful feature that I can't live without
23:40:37 <emperorjake> it would be wonderful to see it in vanilla
23:55:20 <FLHerne> it's not trustworthy for fragile rail networks, but no-one wants to hand-timetable every city bus route
23:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the worst part about timetabling is redoing everything after replacing
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