IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-12-17
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00:21:07 <andythenorth> tropic landscape interpretation of "Mountainous" is truly lol
00:21:13 <andythenorth> that climate...just don't 🙂
00:22:03 <andythenorth> doesn't TGP have some special handling of Tropic, to flatten the whole map?
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01:07:04 <talltyler> Yes, and for arctic it makes mountaintop plateaus
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01:44:29 <lamarr> andythenorth: There are tricks to it, I've found Alpinist + no variety distribution + no or very little desert can give you a tropic rainforest kind of look.
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07:15:46 <andythenorth> FIRS broke the game again
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07:32:25 <emperorjake> Just buy a faster processor if the game is laggy
07:34:29 <emperorjake> on a side note, removing the experimental features from AXIS seems to have fixed this error as well, so now I should be able to have my full 128 industries
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10:40:56 <xarick> can I has more signs? 64k too smol1
10:46:23 <xarick> I'm looking for 4096*4096 signs
10:47:19 <xarick> not even sure if kdtree could handle that
12:36:27 <pickpacket> How old is OpenTTD?
12:44:23 <locosage> of legal age in most countries xD
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12:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> legal for what? driving? drinking? marriage?
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13:28:04 <xarick> could I ask for a font change for scripts? I'd like one where the character widths are all equal
13:28:11 <xarick> since you're on the matter of fonts
13:28:38 <xarick> that way I could align the messages
13:36:26 <locosage> in gs? you should be already able to use mono font tag for that
13:37:50 <peter1138> Probably means the script debug window.
13:39:02 <locosage> in that case just setting some monospace font as normal should do
13:40:35 <peter1138> He may not know that you can configure ttf fonts :)
13:47:07 <xarick> how do I configure a font for the script debug window?
13:47:39 <peter1138> It uses the normal medium font, so configure a that.
13:47:54 <peter1138> console window, font command
13:48:02 <_glx_> but maybe we could switch the window to mono
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13:52:02 <_glx_> another way is to use `{MONO_FONT}` in your messages
13:53:27 <_glx_> for good reason we filter control codes
15:51:32 <andythenorth> Can I have multiple windows to log to from one GS? 😛
15:51:48 <andythenorth> Or I could just use story book 🙂
15:55:42 <andythenorth> Just as an integer param to Log()
15:58:57 <peter1138> Hmm, more inter-dependencies.
16:04:27 <peter1138> First we take Manhatten Distance, then we take Berlin Distance.
16:05:31 <peter1138> Cool, gnome-shell just got OOM killed.
16:10:32 <xarick> I'm getting confused with my own code
16:20:45 <peter1138> Viewport signs are so inconsistent :S
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16:34:15 <xarick> I have several lists...
16:34:15 <xarick> _tile_queue stores all tiles that come from CircularTileSearch unconditionally.
16:34:15 <xarick> _tile_distances, stores valid distances from each tile to the main town.
16:34:16 <xarick> _tile_noises, stores the same tiles as _tile_distances but it stores the noise at each tile for that distance.
16:34:16 <xarick> _tile_priorities[noise], these lists store the order each of the same tiles in the two previous lists first appeared have appeared, for each noise type.
16:35:22 <_glx_> maybe you should look at internal squirrel containers
16:37:14 <xarick> the squirrel way to sort is utterly slow 😦
16:37:47 <_glx_> it's slow, but it won't kill the script if it takes too long
16:38:13 <_glx_> or if it's too heavy on cpu
16:39:26 <xarick> I was experimenting with AddList, KeepList, RemoveList, KeepValue, etc... but can't quite grasp what to do to get the desired result
17:30:36 <andythenorth> caching results from tile searches will increase RAM use rapidly
17:30:46 <andythenorth> well...it did when I cached the whole map at least
17:32:01 <_glx_> caching the whole map, what a silly idea
17:35:40 <peter1138> Especially on one of those massive 4096x4096 maps.
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18:00:04 <michi_cc[d]> Public service announcement: If nothing happens on the TTF font PR tonight, it will either have to wait until next year or someone else has to take over. /PSA out
18:02:08 <peter1138> Away for Christmas?
18:09:14 <_zephyris> On the subject of fonts, I noticed the default font fallback behaviour of Chinese/Japanese is _borderline_ useable. Defaulting to 12px medium and 8px small font sizes, preferably with anti-aliasing, would be better for logographics...
18:10:40 <wensimehrp> I actually have some 8px CJK fonts installed on my computer
18:12:27 <_zephyris> I that _really_ readable!?
18:12:44 <_zephyris> I was expecting just kana/simplified chinese
18:13:46 <wensimehrp> oops, just found a japanese character without support
18:14:08 <peter1138> Install 200MB of random non-latin fonts to fiddle :p
18:14:13 <wensimehrp> (the five characters means the same, "iron")
18:14:53 <wensimehrp> (it's just that two of them are used in Japanese, two of them in Traditional, and one is used in Simplified Chinese)
18:15:52 <_zephyris> I can just about see the real font<—>pixel font correspondence for the second and third...
18:16:02 <peter1138[d]> Other than being small because it's 1x interface scale, is this unreadable?
18:16:45 <_zephyris> Would it be better bigger?
18:17:08 <peter1138> That's what interface scale is for :)
18:17:32 <peter1138> So I don't think we need to change any default sizes.
18:17:36 <_zephyris> True, as long as it's readable enough to find the settings button.
18:25:56 <peter1138> Even "Noto Sans CJK" is missing glyphs, so... :)
18:26:03 <peter1138> Still gets used as default though.
18:26:11 <peter1138> (On my system at least)
18:30:31 <_glx_> might be better to use one font per glyph (but probably not easy)
18:37:45 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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19:29:11 <michi_cc[d]> _zephyris: See the recent comment on #11593, this is something you would have to change "somewhere".
19:35:29 <_zephyris> Yup. The height is something I'm still looking at...
19:37:12 <_zephyris> It's probably not just a setting - there seems to be a bunch of overrides in the drawing routines which shift oversized glyhs. And I'm trying to fit more features (more diacritics) into a 10px font where diacritics were already an afterthought (not sure if they were in TTO, or just TTD, but the glyph design clearly didn't plan for them).
19:38:22 <_zephyris> peter1138[d]: 's comment is _really_ more a comment about version control/font updates/etc. I've got a bunch of local tweaks, greek in the works, etc. How do those end up filtering through?
19:38:57 <peter1138> We have to update the font every time you do an update.
19:39:15 <peter1138> As you are still working on it, I don't thik it's really 'urgent' to get the font in before michi_cc[d] goes aw
19:39:16 <_zephyris> And/or, a comment about fallback strategies. Ie. use sprite font if suitable, otherwise OTTD TTF, otherwise other font fallback.
19:39:55 <_zephyris> It's good for my hyperfixation though 🙂
19:45:56 <michi_cc[d]> _zephyris: As far as I understand TTF, the value I mean is purely a meta-data value and has no effect on the actual font glyphs. I'm not even sure how usefull this re-sizing is that OTTD does.
19:46:44 <michi_cc[d]> I guess it was mostly added because usually you have the same font for small and normal, and someone wanted to make sure small is still readable but keeping the relative scaling.
19:55:21 <_zephyris> Yup, totally a metadata value. With some odd behaviours, there's two related settings for windows, with an extra bit switch. The bit switch seems to mean "No, seriously, use these recommended values". I suspect that there is an enormous amount of difference in interpretation.
19:57:16 <peter1138> Yeah not sure what's all about in OpenTTD either :)
20:04:18 <michi_cc[d]> _zephyris: I think you are actually somewhat out of luck with FontForge. From it's source: `head->lowestreadable = 8;` FontForge has it hardcoded...
20:06:57 <michi_cc[d]> Might be an argument to remove that re-scaling altogether, if common font software doesn't actually allows providing values, many fonts probably have bullshit there.
20:30:01 <_zephyris> I've got a few ideas on how to push the medium into a true 10px font... The small font is the real challenge 🙂
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20:41:01 <michi_cc[d]> Okay, for the time being I'll change the PR to explicitly use the default font sizes, so you get 6/10/18 (for 1x zoom) exactly.
20:43:00 <michi_cc[d]> For people with cmake knowledge: for me it seems like a changed ttf file will not always trigger a copy (using generated VS project files). Is that something I did wrong in the PR or is it not reliable for the other files from that dir as well?
20:45:57 <_glx_> it should copy if they are changed
20:46:45 <_glx_> the copy target depends on the source file
20:47:02 <_glx_> if the file changes, the target should run
20:51:59 <_glx_> yeah I think it needs timestamp, because target uses timestamp
20:55:30 <michi_cc[d]> So what should I change? 🙂
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20:58:35 <_glx_> replace `add_custom_command` with `add_custom_command_timestamp`
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20:59:29 <sinas128> Say I have created a map with temperate climate
20:59:29 <sinas128> is it possible to change to artic climate afterwards?
20:59:29 <sinas128> and do the same rules apply to scenario or not?
21:03:40 <peter1138> Nope, not possible.
21:04:09 <peter1138> I guess a "save as heightmap" feature would work, but I don't think that exists.
21:04:21 <_glx_> but timestamp stuff is mostly for generated files
21:04:42 <peter1138> fonts could be generated files...
21:06:07 <_glx_> (a generated file can be older than its deps, because `generate_file` only update if there's a change)
21:06:30 <michi_cc[d]> _glx_: Will that do anything bad for any other file in `BASESET_OTHER_SOURCE_FILES`? Should it be a new source file block?
21:07:23 <_glx_> it might trigger a copy, but that's all
21:09:21 <_glx_> but the timestamp main use is to prevent continuous "regeneration" of some generated files
21:12:01 <_glx_> could be related to VS project file too
21:12:43 <_glx_> (I use open folder mode)
21:12:46 <talltyler> “Save as heightmap” does exist, it’s in the screenshot tool I believe
21:13:01 <peter1138[d]> Screenshot? lol 😄
21:14:01 <peter1138[d]> "Heightmap screenshot". TIL.
21:25:04 <pickpacket> locosage: there’s sadly precious little history of the game on the website. Was watching a game on youtube and those guys were under the impression that OpenTTD had come along some 10 or 20 years after TTD
21:28:30 <peter1138> Well, it felt pretty old at the time...
21:28:37 <peter1138> Time is bloody strange.
21:53:29 <andythenorth> ok I built a proper one
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21:58:13 <xarick> glx22viaGitHub: Better not close it. Rivers are still disconnected
22:00:48 <xarick> it's a terraforming issue, it creates a slope on a tile that is passed to the pathfinder but it expects a flat one to work correctly.
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22:24:44 <andythenorth> ship is in a lock, unloading at the adjacent dock
22:24:49 <peter1138[d]> Is it loading there? 😄 Nice
22:25:40 <xarick> I can actually benchmark how many ticks it takes to complete 1 second!
22:25:47 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, wonder how to get grfcodec to load non-pixel data in an act1...
22:26:28 <xarick> or how many ticks advance when in fast forward
22:26:58 <xarick> GetSystemDate is a cool little thing
22:32:34 <peter1138[d]> Hmm, looking unlikely.
22:38:00 <rau117> andythenorth: Maybe raise industry by 1 and build a port around it?
22:38:00 <rau117> *Of course, if it is possible to destroy and rebuild the industry.*
22:40:08 <xarick> for some unknown reason, the first one was kinda short
22:42:13 <xarick> hmm, the fast forward one doesn't work as I hoped
22:42:39 <xarick> I'm constantly checking if an entire ~1 second has passed
22:47:13 <peter1138[d]> So I made a way to read SVG embedded in NewGRF, but I don't have a way to actually embed it 😄
22:49:28 <xarick> ah, I was supposed to start the tick counter at the next second...
22:58:51 <xarick> How do I pass a variable to a Valuator function. They're not initialized when I do so :/
22:59:57 <xarick> those global variables that start as null, then I define them and have all other functions just access to them
23:00:23 <xarick> I can't change the global variables inside the Valuator function 😦
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23:15:06 <_zephyris> Not bad... Any Greek speakers to tell me what I've done wrong?
23:30:44 <peter1138[d]> Urgh, embedding non-bitmap sprites seems to be a no-go :/
23:35:18 <peter1138[d]> Everything assumes there'll be bitmap data to convert 🙂
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23:44:41 <_zephyris> Well, yeah. I can imagine so!
23:51:33 <peter1138[d]> Baseline and spacing is wrong... but.
23:53:40 <peter1138[d]> Previously I hacked these into the game using a new svg font cache.
23:53:59 <peter1138[d]> But these are just inserted into OpenTTD Sans instead.
23:57:26 <peter1138> Numbers need massaging :)
23:57:58 <peter1138> These were hand-coded svg of course, because I'm not an artist :)
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