IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-12-04
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00:40:49 <_glx_> I seem to have a fix, trying on my fork
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07:55:31 <andythenorth> I'm curious how this cafetier is given a capacity of 350 ml by the manufacturer
07:55:50 <andythenorth> it looks much larger than a can of Coke, which is 330 ml
07:56:42 <andythenorth> yeah it's taller and has greater radius
07:57:04 <andythenorth> and pi*r^2 means that's quite a bit larger area
07:58:16 <andythenorth> I reckon it's 1 litre, or 800 ml
08:06:25 <ahyangyi> Well, you are looking at its outside shape. What if there's a smol can nested insde the big one?
08:17:48 <andythenorth> 2.5 cups (normal tea mug sized)
08:17:54 <andythenorth> must be 1 litre?
08:21:56 <andythenorth> can't function until I've had at least 1 cup
08:22:03 <andythenorth> 'dependency much?'
08:22:10 <_zephyris> Or about 54million cubic pixels at 96dpi
08:22:58 <_zephyris> Same here. Left home in a rush, I'm stuck on a bus, there's a coffee shop at the end of the route. Gasping.
08:26:00 <_zephyris> Why the ugly brown colour around the endgame and high score screens?
08:40:55 <_zephyris> The chip and pin machine is broken. Nightmare
08:43:26 <peter1138> Up until 0.3.6, OpenTTD didn't have the highscore window.
08:45:38 <peter1138> And it used colour "16" which was out of bounds of the colour table.
08:45:44 <peter1138> So, who knows what colour it was :D
08:47:18 <peter1138> Even on 1.0.0 it used COLOUR_END, which is invalid.
08:49:58 <peter1138> That made it brown :D
08:50:24 <peter1138> I've never really noticed it though. Hmm.
08:55:19 <peter1138> Brown is hard with TTL RGB output.
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09:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "2.5 mugs = 1 liter"? must be very giant mugs
09:43:28 <andythenorth> about 15% of the volume is coffee grounds
09:43:51 <NGC3982> im here for my yearly reminder to say that i apprechiate you guys and that i love you
09:44:31 <LordAro> don't forget to drink some water before you go to bed
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09:45:03 <icecoldnorth> Hi, I have an idea of using OpenTTD to publish passing notifications to a AWS SNS topic when a train passes a block post or station. Could someone point me to where/how it would be simplest to integrate in OpenTTD?
10:01:12 <peter1138> You could possibly hook into the train controller where it moves into a new tile.
10:01:31 <peter1138> Well, not so much "hook", more add code there.
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10:19:56 <andythenorth> £0.94 monthly AWS bill
10:20:00 <andythenorth> would be way cheaper on my MBP
10:20:13 <andythenorth> _dead Horse flogged_?
10:27:17 <Eddi|zuHause> does the MBP have SSE4.1?
10:36:59 <_zephyris> Sorry, stress-testing 32bpp sprites again...
10:48:38 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: probably not, unless Apple emulate it in Apple Silicon for some reason
10:48:56 <andythenorth> is there an ARM implementation, or is it Intel proprietary?
10:50:15 <peter1138> SSE4.1 is 15 years old.
10:50:48 <peter1138> How do we get an update for Eddi|zuHause?
10:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but AMD was late to the party
11:06:38 <dwfreed> SSE4.1 is x86-specific
11:07:43 <dwfreed> AMD added 4.1 to Bulldozer
11:08:58 <ahyangyi> Which was earlier, AMD Bulldozer or OpenTTD Magic Bulldozer?
11:09:09 <dwfreed> 4.1 launched in penryn, july 2006
11:09:20 <dwfreed> bulldozer was late 2011
11:09:57 <ahyangyi> hmm, OpenTTD 1.0 was 2010, so probably OpenTTD wins
11:12:19 <peter1138> Penryn was Nov 2007, the last Core 2 range.
11:15:11 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Rosetta 2 emulates SSE up to 4.2 (but not AVX)
11:15:13 <dwfreed> ah, so it was; still 4 years, though :P
11:15:47 <FLHerne> for x86_64 binaries; obviously it's not a thing for native code
11:16:01 <FLHerne> it has generally equivalent NEON instructions
11:16:16 <peter1138> How RISC even is ARM these days?
11:16:49 <peter1138> Sophie Wilson would be rolling in her grave... if she were dead.
11:18:04 <ahyangyi> But the CISCy amd64 is implemented with RISCy micro-ops as well. It goes both ways 😛
11:18:50 <peter1138> Yes, be interesting to see what AMD do with ARM.
11:21:15 <andythenorth> peter1138: I think "it's complicated" covers it?
11:47:04 <peter1138> ERROR: cannot alter type of a column used by a view or rule
11:47:10 <peter1138> Urgh, such dependencies.
12:08:11 <icecoldnorth> peter1138[d]: do you have a link to the train controller code?
12:09:10 <peter1138> No. It'll be somewhere in train_cmd.cpp
12:09:21 <icecoldnorth> If I want to load all the timetables from OpenTTD to coordinate the notifications from the train controller to know for example the whole route of the current train, would that be best to load from the SAV file?
12:10:43 <peter1138> You'd need to be able to understand the game's data structures to be able to put all the information together, so probably not.
12:10:45 <icecoldnorth> or is SAV file local client file? is the timetables stored in the backend as well? Sorry about very basic and newb questions I havent coded anything yet in OpenTDD and are just exploring posibilities for a case I have)
12:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like you want the order list, not the train controller. the train controller handles the movement of trains from one step to the next
12:12:14 <icecoldnorth> I want to push notifications as often as possible when the train travels around the tracks, for example when i stops at a station or pass a blockpost/signal
12:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a "vehicle enter tile" [or similar name] function
12:12:47 <icecoldnorth> and if possible I think I need to compare that to the timetables to see where on the route the train are
12:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there you can probably hook your output into
12:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the save file will not help you in any way with such dynamic data.
12:13:52 <icecoldnorth> what about the timetable schedules?
12:14:10 <icecoldnorth> where would be the best place to load route information for a train?
12:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the timetable is probably too coarse for what you're describing.
12:14:56 <peter1138> So the route information is the order list / timetable. They are basically the same thing.
12:14:57 <icecoldnorth> would "vehicle enter tile"-function know information about the train identifier and if there is a station on the tile, the station identifier?
12:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have to place many waypoints throughout the network to do that with just the timetable
12:15:17 <icecoldnorth> there is an api to load the order list?
12:15:44 <peter1138> No, the order list is always present in the game.
12:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you can review/modify the order list from a game script, probably
12:16:56 <icecoldnorth> alright, so to retrieve the orderlist externally from outside the OpenTTD process, do you have a suggestion how I could do that?
12:17:55 <peter1138> If you are going to be pushing events to a remote API, I would suggest you can also push the order list to a remote API?
12:23:52 <icecoldnorth> yeah, so from a game script?
12:24:23 <icecoldnorth> or extend some central orderlist class?
12:27:41 <peter1138> Game script isn't going to be useful here, you can't make calls to an external API from that.
12:29:32 <icecoldnorth> pushing the orderlist on update to AWS SNS would be no problem, just have to find where the update code in OpenTTD is located.
12:40:51 <icecoldnorth> But, would "vehicle enter tile"-function know information about the train identifier and if there is a station on the tile, the station identifier?
12:46:11 <peter1138> I'd be very surprised if the train controller didn't know what train it was dealing with.
12:47:31 <icecoldnorth> but does it also know information about stations on the tile?
12:48:21 <peter1138> That can be looked up
12:49:14 <icecoldnorth> nice! Thanx! I will research the code a bit
12:58:51 <peter1138> _glx_, fingers crossed :D
12:59:25 <peter1138> I encountered other errors on my build, but that is a different set up for TB's performance tracking stuff.
13:02:31 <_glx_> With this change the build should be like it was before the vcpkg update, and it used to be fine (I tested locally and on my fork to be sure)
13:09:48 <peter1138> Hmm, 'live' update of drop down lists...
13:15:02 <peter1138> Wondering if the station list cargo filter should filter by whether the station has a rating for that cargo, or whether it has cargo waiting.
13:16:04 <peter1138> Currently the station list displays the miniature graph when there is cargo waiting, the the cargo filter goes by rating. So it's kinda inconsistent.
13:26:50 <andythenorth> what version of cdist is this?
13:26:59 <andythenorth> it never assigns anything other than 'any station'
13:27:09 <andythenorth> but cargo does travel beyond next station
13:27:54 <andythenorth> it's not choking stations at all, it's a much better play experience in some ways
13:28:47 <andythenorth> I have a funny feeling that it's only happening because my savegame is broken 🙂
13:28:57 <andythenorth> but it would be interesting to keep this behaviour
13:29:30 <andythenorth> this savegame had broken cdist, and then has a recent fix in vanilla applied
13:29:37 <andythenorth> and I've turned cdist off and on a few times
13:31:34 <peter1138[d]> Yes, the version of cdist is your exclusive "broken savegame version".
13:32:43 <andythenorth> can we make it not broken, and permanent?
13:32:47 <andythenorth> it's much more relaxing
13:32:55 <andythenorth> pax and mail seem to flow, no transfers, but no pile ups
13:33:18 <peter1138> It is permanent for that savegame...
13:33:27 <peter1138> Maybe if you delete the stations it will resolve :)
13:33:54 <andythenorth> I don't want to 😦
13:35:17 <_pruple> andythenorth: you've invented a version of cdist that is just like playing with cdist turned off?
13:35:56 <andythenorth> except it's not quite the same as that 😛
13:36:59 <andythenorth> some cargo will travel multiple hops
13:37:16 <andythenorth> could we simulate this?
13:37:54 <andythenorth> when a vehicle is unloading, the amount unloaded is a random dice roll, if any of the next orders also accept the cargo
13:38:10 <andythenorth> presumably that's kind of what cdist is doing anyway?
13:40:02 <talltyler> peter1138: Definitely rating, not cargo waiting. Otherwise stations with a train currently loading would not appear.
13:41:11 <peter1138> Should the list itself display a graph if the station has a rating then, instead of if it has cargo waiting?
13:41:22 <peter1138> Or do I just leave it and ignore the inconsistency? :D
13:46:21 <peter1138> Empty station but has a rating renders okay I guess.
13:46:35 <peter1138> It even shows you the rating.
13:47:08 <peter1138> I think I've decided ;)
13:48:05 <alfagamma7> this is a nice feature
13:53:06 <_glx_> andythenorth: group by "via" first
13:53:16 <_glx_> that's the only thing that matters with cdist
13:53:59 <peter1138> Hopefully cdest will come along and fix it :D
13:59:09 <peter1138> We can then complain about cdest being broken and a bad feature...
14:11:59 <andythenorth> I think this is some sort of RandomDist
14:12:20 <andythenorth> I'd post the savegame, but obviously it contains unreleased grfs that are broken 😛
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14:32:15 <peter1138[d]> Possibly useful button, but then again who even looks at this graph?
14:32:44 <notluke2578> I have never needed that graph
14:33:22 <LordAro> text looks like it's overlapping the border
14:33:36 <LordAro> maybe you would look at the graph if it were more applicable :p
14:33:49 <peter1138> There's a reason for that.
14:34:29 <andythenorth> is it the wind of change?
14:34:35 <peter1138> 081ff2428202ae8c184e9cb25bafdb1bf6a214a6
14:34:50 <andythenorth> on a glory night?
14:35:36 <peter1138> Part 2: "Clicked buttons now visible depressed their contents"
14:35:55 <peter1138> Yeah, TTD didn't do that.
14:36:09 <locosage> that graph isn't particularly good but it's better than nothing
14:36:18 <peter1138> It's been screwing with dynamically sized layouts ever since.
14:38:39 <peter1138> That's how TTD handled it—selected buttons with small text are drawn in white instead of black.
14:40:14 <_zephyris> Arguably doing white text and indented would be good UI design.
14:40:46 <peter1138> TTD does depress the buttons, but never shifted the content by 1,1 pixel.
14:41:07 <peter1138> It's that shift that causes the intro menu climate buttons to be wonky.
14:41:21 <peter1138> It's that shift that causes the toolbar buttons to be larger than they need to be.
14:41:35 <peter1138> And if you can't tell, I've been considering removing it ;)
14:48:09 <_glx_> hmm but the button doesn't move so why shift the text ?
14:48:48 <peter1138> _glx_, exactly. It's just something we've done since someone thought it was a good idea :)
14:51:34 <peter1138> A piece of design from Windows 95-style buttons?
14:55:14 <_glx_> ah yes the "click on the bottom but not completely on the bottom else it doesn't click" windows 95 UI
15:00:54 <peter1138> Hmm, it's a bit more to fully remove it.
15:06:54 <rau117> peter1138[d]: Or make a switch, which will reverse current state of transporter cargo? Like if you have all cargos shown, it will hide already used and vice-versa
15:27:47 <talltyler> I am +1 to removing the offset on clicked buttons. I almost said something about it in a review but realized it was intentional
15:28:05 <talltyler> Especially on the climate selection buttons
15:29:46 <peter1138> (Oh it was part 3 not part 2)
15:45:55 <rau117> talltyler: Maybe then remove offset only for text buttons (and climate selection)?
15:45:55 <rau117> On buttons with icons, pressing it just “feels more real” and at the same time it does not seem to cause visual defects
15:47:02 <_zephyris> This is partly a symptom of the UI using buttons as buttons, radio buttons and checkboxes, by (almost) totally lacking those as UI elements.
15:52:21 <rau117> peter1138[d]: By the way, on interface size 1.25 these buttons look much better
15:54:14 <peter1138> Use 1.25 scale then.
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16:11:03 <_glx_> that's the correct way of doing cmake 🙂
16:11:53 <_glx_> else it can't know if a new dep is added
16:14:35 <_glx_> BTW the files are copied at build time 😉
16:19:42 <_glx_> 5 `file(GLOB...)` still exist in the source, 2 for regression (which will need the same treatement as grf), and 3 related to script API (these are safe as the cpp/h[pp] files they search for are already referenced via `add_source()` and touching that triggers a reconfigure)
16:22:19 <_glx_> fixing regression is very low priority
16:24:58 <LordAro> _glx_: but what if someone adds a new regression test???
16:25:23 <_glx_> someone will find it needs to manually reconfigure 🙂
17:18:17 <peter1138> Hmm, so r21144 made the station list cargo filter inconsistent with the display.
17:19:02 <peter1138> The filter did originally filter on cargo waiting rather than rating.
17:19:30 <peter1138> Do station ratings for a cargo eventually disappear if you stop serving it?
17:19:39 <peter1138> (Stop picking up that cargo)
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17:45:06 <xarick> just got an unbelievable long stall during world generation
17:46:57 <xarick> is it possible to run OpenTTD on a HDR monitor?
17:47:17 <xarick> i mean, use 10-bits colors or wtv
17:51:34 <peter1138> It should be able to display on it but it won't be HDR.
17:52:33 <_glx_> I hate when regression fails because of some AIs in the global folder
17:53:19 <_glx_> usually "Registering two scripts with the same name and version'"
17:53:39 <_glx_> because they don't change the version when uploading a new version
17:54:34 <_glx_> or worse don't change the name when it should be different
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18:19:09 <peter1138> Hopefully we get a nightly tonight :D
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18:20:46 <_glx_> my fork says we should (but it also said that for my previous fix)
18:21:17 <_glx_> (because a new runner image appeared between my test and the merge)
18:38:50 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:39:26 <xarick> suggestion: game options to remember last tab clicked
18:40:35 <_glx_> should be simple to add
18:42:08 <peter1138> (Last time I said that I just did it anyway...)
18:44:58 <xarick> Refresh rates higher than 60Hz might impact performance?
18:49:46 <peter1138> Well it refreshes more often for no reason.
18:52:16 <andythenorth> ```git reset --hard``` was in my shell history
18:52:24 <andythenorth> I use history a lot 😛
18:52:42 <_glx_> it's safe if you don't have pending changes
18:54:29 <peter1138> Well he doesn't any more.
18:54:41 <LordAro> i did that recently too
19:07:08 <peter1138> Build nightly still going.
19:08:11 <peter1138> andythenorth, if you committed every thing to master and pushed every commit, you'd not have a problem.
19:08:22 <peter1138> You could then do "continuous integration"
19:19:30 <peter1138> Is that fourth wall?
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19:39:43 <LordAro> i should point out that text overlaps borders more often
19:41:18 <LordAro> means things like the above happen :)
19:41:34 <peter1138[d]> Oh right, I thought you mean the change causes that to happen.
19:42:19 <peter1138[d]> That was in my stash pile for ages...
19:43:56 <peter1138[d]> I now have the dilemma that drop down menus are not the same as original...
19:46:34 <peter1138> Not only that but this IRC/Discord switching is getting a bit out of hand ;p
19:47:29 <peter1138> We have only raised dropdowns, because we also integrated them into other windows. Those don't exist in TTD.
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20:01:43 <rau117> peter1138[d]: And this settings from (Original) TTD?
20:01:43 <rau117> It looks strange, but much nicer than it is now in openttd.
20:03:34 <LordAro> why do you think it is nicer?
20:03:59 <LordAro> ...but also still strange?
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20:15:06 <peter1138[d]> I guess we could... but...
20:18:02 <peter1138> Ah, the mythical WWT_6 in the original widget code :)
20:18:05 <rau117> LordAro: It's just a translation flaw. It's more like "unusual"
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20:20:41 <peter1138> Originally they were made up of two widgets, WWT_6 and WWT_CLOSEBOX, because, yeah.
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20:50:06 <_glx_> peter1138: this time it's just a connection issue on action side, I restarted failed jobs
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21:03:00 <_zephyris> One day git, _one day_, I shall master you
21:26:51 <peter1138> Practice makes perfect.
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22:13:01 <_zephyris> It feels like most people here are developers who use git at work, and can use that for a hobby... While I'm learning git as a hobby!
22:17:06 <peter1138> Not sure if I used git here first or at work.
22:21:00 <_zephyris> I've started using at work now
22:21:25 <_zephyris> Transferable skills... Justifies drawing sprites in my coffee break!
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22:37:00 <_glx_> it's easy do do it, so why not
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22:55:42 <peter1138[d]> That looks weird.
22:56:18 <peter1138[d]> Current for reference.
23:00:49 <_glx_> I think they should all look like current, because the dropdown text is also a button
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23:16:20 <peter1138> Hmm, had to restart VS Code for regression_regression and regression_stationlist to appear in the sidebar.
23:16:26 <peter1138> But that's probably a VS Code/CMake issue.
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continue to next day ⏵
