IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-09-23
⏴ go to previous day
00:44:51 <emperorjake> Discord channel #add-on-development: is the better place for this. Looks good enough to be in NARS Addon (though I haven't seen Neko around lately)
01:02:34 <antarticdoof> I think it's name should be "looks like ge bq23-7"
01:07:19 <antarticdoof> emperorjake: You're right but how move stuff?
01:08:59 <emperorjake> No need to move it, just post stuff in the right place in future 🙂
01:16:47 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd
01:16:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir
01:23:28 *** tokai has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
02:41:51 *** debdog has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
02:56:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
03:03:31 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
05:09:35 <peter1138> Just shoving a few layers on.
05:15:24 *** mint20 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
09:05:10 <johnfranklin> alfagamma7: I think it should be never 7 degree C in some parts of India
09:13:38 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
10:37:57 <andythenorth> nml has both `|` and `||`. They're not really documented, are both the same logical OR?
10:38:12 <andythenorth> or I could read the src 😛
10:39:26 <andythenorth> they're both nmlop.OR in the src
10:53:26 *** blindvt has joined #openttd
10:54:01 *** blindvt is now known as Guest1023
10:54:03 <_jgr_> `|` and `||` are bitwise and logical respectively, same as usual
10:57:52 <_glx_> Internally they the same (grf spec limitation)
10:58:15 <_glx_> But nml does some magic
10:58:35 <_jgr_> NML will do the cast to bool for you if required when using the latter
11:32:45 *** Guest1023 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)
11:33:02 <alfagamma7> johnfranklin: What
12:23:23 <johnfranklin> alfagamma7: India is very hot
12:42:08 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
13:13:46 <alfagamma7> So is parts of China and elsewhere
13:22:21 <andythenorth> think I might do ButGroundType in CHIPS
13:22:33 <andythenorth> might be amusing
13:41:30 <andythenorth> just had a horrific idea
13:41:44 <andythenorth> how many station IDs are there? 65k?
13:43:32 <andythenorth> `In TTDPatch each game can only have 255 station IDs for all active grf files`
13:44:19 <_pruple> oh no, TTDPatch incompatible GRFs 🙂
13:45:05 <andythenorth> it's the only thing I can find in the docs
13:45:07 <alfagamma7> Who plays with that anymore
13:46:15 <andythenorth> I'm going to assume so
13:46:22 <andythenorth> most things are 16, 255, or 65k
13:46:50 <andythenorth> applyinh Sherlock Holmes, quite clearly must be 65k
13:48:46 <andythenorth> might treat the 'classes' more like filters
13:48:54 <andythenorth> so sometimes you want 'town tiles'
13:49:02 <andythenorth> and sometimes you want 'tiles with concrete ground'
13:49:20 <andythenorth> and trying to arrange each tile exactly into each category...did not work for ISR 😛
13:49:35 <andythenorth> so I might just duplicate the tile into multiple categories on different IDs
14:43:58 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC (Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.)
14:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> be wary of combinatorial explosion
15:10:22 <andythenorth> what might it do in this case? 😛
15:10:34 <andythenorth> "town tiles concrete ground in company colour"?
15:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> tiles with {copper|aluminium|brick} roofs
17:09:17 *** taxiservice has quit IRC (Quit: User went offline on Discord a while ago)
17:36:08 <alfagamma7> should I add separate containers for images inside my web layout?
18:16:11 <peter1138> can anyone see mt legs? I appear to have lost them...
18:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yesterday i was at the shore, but the water was gone.
18:50:19 <peter1138> That's called a tide.
19:17:29 *** esselfe has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
19:21:37 *** esselfe has joined #openttd
19:43:58 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
20:23:45 <andythenorth> hmm station variants then?
20:26:59 <andythenorth> I could do stations for each FIRS industry
20:27:05 <andythenorth> like FIRS objects
20:27:24 <andythenorth> but FIRS and CHIPS are separate grfs...keeping them synced across versions won't be viable
20:46:03 <_glx_> you can include stations in FIRS
21:06:06 <andythenorth> hmm will OpenTTD merge tiles from multiple grfs if they use the same class?
21:08:16 <brickblock19280> They will be in the same menu but not as the same entry
21:09:48 <andythenorth> CHIPS had such a simple structure 😛
21:09:57 <andythenorth> that was **all** the classes
21:12:28 <andythenorth> I could do a magic tile that adapts to nearest industry
21:17:54 <brickblock19280> That seems hard
21:19:26 <andythenorth> but probably not worth the effort
21:19:39 <andythenorth> currently thinking I do
21:19:59 <andythenorth> - industry stations (x4 different ground types)
21:20:14 <andythenorth> each ground type would have a class
21:21:13 <andythenorth> ~all the industry stations would just repeat the same buildings, but with asphalt, dirty, asphalt, mud, and cobble ground
21:22:12 <brickblock19280> I think that's ideal
21:22:33 <brickblock19280> You could only do the correct industries for the ground tile tho
21:22:34 <andythenorth> splitting those types into classes
21:23:05 <andythenorth> right now, I think making specific stations for specific FIRS industries is a headache
21:23:14 <andythenorth> because FIRS 8 might not match CHIPS 6
21:23:36 <andythenorth> I only want them for sheds that vehicles can drive into
21:23:46 <andythenorth> I can just do a bunch of sheds derived from FIRS
21:23:55 <talltyler> I actually support including stations in FIRS, like you’ve done with railtypes in Horse
21:24:15 <andythenorth> it's still possible, but it seems to blur the boundaries
21:24:50 <andythenorth> standardised shed schema
21:24:59 <andythenorth> we should have shed classes though
21:25:19 <andythenorth> hmm not really wanting to duplicate CHIPS station code into FIRS either 😛
21:25:48 <talltyler> You could put shed into Sam as SHAD, which is a type of fish
21:26:12 <andythenorth> we could rearrange it to DASH
21:26:47 <andythenorth> the auto-magical tile idea was that I could put pipes onto rail platforms if it's e.g. a chemical industry 😛
21:26:58 <andythenorth> but then again...no
21:27:42 <andythenorth> what do we want to do about showing visible cargo on stations?
21:27:48 <andythenorth> still no winning suggestion
21:29:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
21:31:00 <andythenorth> it's very realistic eh?
21:31:08 <andythenorth> cargo appears, is loaded to wagons, disappears
21:31:24 <andythenorth> such true-to-lige
21:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> realism is probably the worst argument
21:32:24 <_glx_> revert little/lots, or just use a switch
21:32:26 <andythenorth> those who invented the spec...I would imagine had realism first in mind
21:32:52 <_pruple> but there are stockpiles on the industry, and you could have stockpiles as objects. and a loader on the platforms rather than piles?
21:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the specs hat "how hard is it to implement in TTDPatch" in mind
21:33:13 <_pruple> I don't think loading coal by piling it up along the tracks and waiting for a train to put it in is realistic in any way 🙂
21:34:10 <_glx_> if the station matches the industry it can be considered as part of the industry
21:34:46 <brickblock19280> I would like to be able to use chips without firs but I could always just fork it
21:35:59 <andythenorth> load it in the coach via the sunroof?
21:36:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> these facilities probably had worker trains for shift changes and stuff
21:36:56 <andythenorth> sometimes I think it would be nice to have arbitrary overlay layers
21:37:10 <andythenorth> and player control of visibility
21:37:24 <andythenorth> so transparency and cdist overlay could be controlled that way
21:37:30 <_glx_> it should be possible to put both industries and stations in FIRS repo, then generate both grf at the same time
21:37:31 <andythenorth> and also layers for station rating, cargo waiting etc
21:37:46 <andythenorth> yes I could merge the grfs / generate CHIPS from FIRS
21:38:05 <_glx_> and even make a mixed grf version
21:38:15 <andythenorth> I just think the stations-match-industries is maybe a less than pareto case 🙂
21:38:25 <andythenorth> probably 90:10, not even 80:20
21:39:15 <andythenorth> 44 industries in Steeltown 5
21:40:20 <andythenorth> hmm 5 out of 44 need station tiles if I was minimalist
21:40:25 <_glx_> yeah some stations types will be shared with multiple industries
21:40:29 <andythenorth> 10 out of 44 if I got carried away
21:40:47 <andythenorth> 'mineral unloader' etc is quite generic
21:45:59 <andythenorth> it's blast furnaces etc that might get dedicated station
21:49:09 <_zephyris> I was trying an opengfx2 upload to bananas, and got an error that the partial md5 matched the old version... There definitely are a few differences, so what exactly is checked for the md5?
21:55:33 <_zephyris> The main base newgrf and the readme were changed, nothing else... I got it to upload by adding a change to the extra grf.
22:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> readme probably doesn't count, and some things like extra zoom sprites are excluded
22:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the idea behind that was that stripped down grfs could be interchanged with full zoom ones, but bananas was never updated to provide both
22:37:36 <_glx_> MD5 is calculated on the data section
22:38:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
22:39:14 <_glx_> which is all non image sprites
22:41:00 <_glx_> the idea is modifying graphics is harmless, while actions are usually important for network
22:43:19 <_glx_> but an updated extra grf should have an updated action 8, implying a new md5
22:44:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
22:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you add sprites, not modify existing ones?
23:03:46 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:06:58 <_glx_> usually you change at least the version for a new upload
23:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that in action 14?
23:52:23 <_glx_> oh indeed it's action 14
23:54:48 <_glx_> anyway it's `version` in `grf` block
continue to next day ⏵
