IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-09-12
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02:41:28 <alfagamma7> andythenorth: I will volunteer if I get some free time
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04:07:15 <kamnet> alfagamma7: Narrator: "And ay never had another minute of free time in the rest of his life. You get busy livin', or get busy dyin'."
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05:24:23 <alfagamma7> I learnt a lot of stuff unknowingly while grf development
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07:23:39 <andythenorth> ok so mostly that talks about free-roaming worlds
07:23:46 <andythenorth> not tile based modelmaking sandboxes
07:25:29 <_pruple> But we can break those too
07:26:49 <andythenorth> distant-join stations 😛
07:27:45 <andythenorth> I managed to clip out of the world in Euro Truck Simulator and got stuck in an infinite fall into blue background
07:27:47 <andythenorth> does that count?
07:32:35 <truebrain> peter1139: you think this helps to know the left opens a link, the right opens an in-game viewer?
07:33:31 <andythenorth> or "In-game help" or similar
07:33:43 <truebrain> well, is it really "help"
07:33:49 <truebrain> a Changelog or License isn't help
07:33:53 <truebrain> it only makes you depressed 😛
07:34:02 <truebrain> "In-game documents"?
07:36:21 <truebrain> so the first it is 🙂
07:42:10 <peter1139> It's something... grey instead of green though?
07:42:21 <truebrain> let's not bikeshed the color again 🙂
07:42:39 <peter1139> I mean, make the frame colour match the rest of the window?
07:42:41 <truebrain> I believe the argument was: original TT(D) had green for help windows 🙂
07:42:53 <truebrain> owh, you meant the reverse 😛
07:42:57 <peter1139> Or is that a bug with the frame...
07:43:11 <truebrain> nah, too much copy/paste on my part
07:43:20 <truebrain> sorry, I read that as: use grey instead of green
07:43:25 <truebrain> you mean: why is it grey instead of green 😄
07:43:43 <peter1139> Yes, sorry missed a word or two :(
07:44:06 <peter1139> If I ever suggest using grey, assume I've been replaced with 2talltyler ;)
07:44:34 <truebrain> that is a good improvement, good eye there 🙂
07:45:04 <truebrain> time to camelcase all these strings
07:45:08 <truebrain> as that is how the rest of the buttons are 🙂
07:46:42 <truebrain> size .. count .. len .. so many ways to say: I want to length of this list, and all languages implement a different subset of that
07:50:09 <truebrain> and now opening a NewGRF licenses crashes the game .. sometimes I am a bit confused .. like .. did I change anything? 😛
07:52:00 <peter1139> Hmm, must've typed into the wrong window at some point!
07:52:03 <truebrain> not your code, but wtf is `N-1th` .. lol
07:52:30 <peter1139> "Zero indexed"... strange wording.
07:54:29 <truebrain> every time I run `ReInit` on this window, the top location goes down a tiny bit
07:56:37 <truebrain> `SetDisplayedPlane` also doesn't remove the widget without calling `ReInit` .. I might not be knowing what I am doing 😄
07:58:17 <peter1139> You don't need to call ReInit, probably the widget layout is wrong.
07:58:20 <truebrain> hmm .. so `ReInit` has `reposition` flag .. which is `false` by default .. so something else is doing this ..
07:58:26 <truebrain> owh, blame it on me 😦
07:58:42 <truebrain> you are most likely right 😛
07:59:21 <truebrain> I just have a `NWidget(NWID_SELECTION, INVALID_COLOUR, WID_TF_SEL_JUMPLIST),` with a PANEL and other stuff in there
07:59:31 <peter1139> Anyway, another solution is to just make the widget disabled if it can't be used :)
07:59:36 <truebrain> but when I run `this->GetWidget<NWidgetStacked>(WID_TF_SEL_JUMPLIST)->SetDisplayedPlane(SZSP_HORIZONTAL);` it doesn't hide without `ReInit`
08:00:09 <truebrain> it does appear without ReInit, oddly enough
08:01:00 <peter1139> Ah yes, the SZSP_* stuff is for hiding widgets on init building of the window.
08:01:53 <peter1139> It's also used when shading a window, and that does also do ReInit.
08:02:46 <truebrain> the nuances of our widget system 😛
08:03:15 <truebrain> trying to set the height at 0 also doesn't seem to do the trick 😛 Bah 😄
08:05:09 <truebrain> the original work set the height of the dropdown to zero, but I see now also only on initialize
08:05:19 <truebrain> so that is a bit of a pita .. hmm
08:05:26 <truebrain> and yeah, disabling would be the easy way of doing it
08:05:30 <truebrain> but .. looks far less pretty
08:07:30 <truebrain> hmm .. okay, now I have that it does dissapear, just the window starts moving down .. what is happening there ..
08:08:24 <alfagamma7> truebrain: Too much green
08:10:45 <peter1139> Whoop, more new tyres, but this time for the car.
08:11:12 <peter1139> Offside-front is still legal tread but 7 years old.
08:11:28 <truebrain> you don't drive a lot of car, do you? 😄
08:12:45 <peter1139> It had an advisory on it 2 years ago because it was near the legal limit.
08:12:58 <truebrain> `CheckForMissingGlyphs` triggers some kind of ReInit, lol
08:13:18 <peter1139> It's been worn by 0.2mm since then, so it's still only near the legal limit.
08:13:34 <peter1139> I do more miles on my bicycles than the car, that's true.
08:13:34 <truebrain> `ReInitAllWindows` .. well, that explains why it was working sometimes, and not other times
08:15:13 <truebrain> but now why does it change height .. hmm .. I guess this just shouldn't (or can't) be done with the current widget system ..
08:16:45 <peter1139> It's a bit annoying, I'd like an electric car but when you do less than 2000 miles a year, they're just too expensive.
08:17:52 <truebrain> they are expensive either way
08:18:13 <truebrain> I am driving one, don't get me wrong, but the buy-price was .. high
08:18:33 <truebrain> feels less pretty .. far easier to implement
08:18:36 <peter1139> Well yes, but if you regularly drive one it's easier to justify £300 a month on PCP, although yeah, that still sucks.
08:18:50 <peter1139> And a Citroen AMI is a little bit too basic :p
08:19:14 <truebrain> that "wrap text" button is too small for the text
08:19:21 <truebrain> is there something I could do to fix that?
08:19:24 <truebrain> or just .. "deal with it"?
08:20:09 <truebrain> I will push an update in a bit
08:20:17 <peter1139> (I shouldn't be looking, it's work o'clock, but UI consistency is kinda my baby now...)
08:20:49 <truebrain> well, I am mostly looking for: that is expected, or that is unexpected, or "do this"
08:21:35 <truebrain> now figuring out what I did to break NewGRF textviewer ..
08:22:43 <truebrain> `SetDParamStr(1, this->grf_config->GetName());` is crashing on me ... oh-oh ...
08:24:45 <peter1139> Hmm, the graph window has a button there, but just uses SetMinimalSize(50, 0) to make sure it's wide enough.
08:24:48 <truebrain> it was working yesterday .. and I didn't really change anything in relation to that ... bbbbbeeeeeehhhhh
08:24:59 <truebrain> yeah, but that is a silly solution, as in translations it might still break 😛
08:25:14 <truebrain> I am going to do it however 😛
08:25:54 <peter1139> Oh, the "Wrap text" button is not even new.
08:26:01 <peter1139> So I wouldn't touch it :)
08:26:20 <peter1139> It's our widget system being economical with pixels.
08:26:22 <truebrain> such a pretty window, and then THAT
08:26:38 <truebrain> buttons should always have padding around their text, tbh 🙂
08:26:55 <peter1139> We could easily fix it so that all those text buttons automatically allow for an extra couple of (scaled) pixels or something.
08:27:05 <truebrain> but okay, will leave it alone 🙂
08:27:35 <peter1139> It's exaccerbated by the button being lowered, which draws the text at +1+1 scaled pixels from the centre.
08:27:44 <truebrain> and now all of a sudden NewGRF windows work again 😮
08:27:48 <peter1139> (That word is incorrectly spelled but you know what I mean)
08:28:24 <peter1139> Also, thinking about it, that's also a bug between sprite-font and true-type font.
08:29:05 <peter1139> With the sprite font, there is no spacing between glyphs, the sprites include it via the shadow.
08:29:29 <peter1139> With truetype fonts, the layouter does spacing (and kerning) and puts in appropriate spaces... between the characters.
08:29:58 <peter1139> That means with the spritefont, there is always 1 scaled pixel space after the last character, but with truetype, nope...
08:30:13 <peter1139> Basically, tl;dr, it's not you, or your layout.
08:30:21 <truebrain> SEE! Finally, not me 😛
08:30:36 <truebrain> and hmm ... so the game was constantly crashing on me .. and now it stopped .. I made no code changes ...
08:31:15 <peter1139> Merge it anyway, let the masses find the bug :D
08:31:29 <truebrain> trying to run valgrind on my binary
08:31:32 <truebrain> but valgrind says: no
08:31:37 <truebrain> `### unhandled dwarf2 abbrev form code 0x25`
08:31:46 <peter1139> We do too many strange things.
08:32:10 <truebrain> ah, yes, couldn't use valgrind with clang
08:32:12 <truebrain> I forgot about that
08:32:35 <truebrain> (you notice when you search for an error, the first hit is a visited link)
08:34:10 <peter1139> Should I split my vinyl album recordings into separate tracks?
08:34:23 <truebrain> I stopped reading after vinyl
08:35:36 <truebrain> right, one more remaining issue ... `fopen` on a folder actually returns a filepointer
08:35:50 <truebrain> so our "does file exist" also says "yes" to folders
08:36:39 <truebrain> suggestions range from opening in "read+append", which doesn't work on folders
08:36:51 <truebrain> to using `opendir`, which is not really all that clear how crossplatform it is
08:39:51 <truebrain> owh, I accidentially fixed it by not allowing to open any file not a .md or .txt
08:40:32 <truebrain> `Error: Out of memory. Cannot allocate 9223372036854775807 bytes`
08:40:43 <truebrain> folder have a very large filesize .. you can even fseek on them 😛
08:42:47 <truebrain> I could use `std::filesystem::is_directory`?
08:49:27 <truebrain> I keep finding these small things .. lol .. maybe I should stop 😛
08:52:47 <peter1139> You are required to report any problems that you encounter with this software.
08:52:54 <truebrain> I think that PR is now done. I could approve and merge myself .. might not be nice 😄
08:53:07 <truebrain> peter1139: "any"? Owh boy .. they are going to regret that statement 😄
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09:25:31 <ahyangyi> peter1139: "I have a problem with the requirement that I am required to report any problem." 😛
10:58:27 <truebrain> New version up, feedback is welcome 🙂 (Help & Manual button)
11:00:30 <truebrain> right, fixed some more capatalization in buttons 🙂
11:03:31 <pickpacket> this reminds me I should upload the new version of Tea Tea Deluxe to bananas
11:04:22 <pickpacket> I should fix that thing in Asiastar Redux that causes the engines to show up at the very top in the menu all the time. Someone here told me how to fix that but I don't remember who, nor how
12:12:39 <LordAro> truebrain: preview of survey result having the (greyed out) TOC dropdown is a bit odd
12:12:54 <LordAro> oh, and preview builds having surveys at all seems a bit odd too, but that's probably out of scope :)
12:13:11 <truebrain> read up above .. it is in the current GUI nearly impossible to actually hide the TOC
12:13:31 <truebrain> if you have, code-wise, ideas, I am all ears, but .. it is a nightmare 😛
12:13:58 <pickpacket> will the survey be introduced in 14.0?
12:15:16 <LordAro> tbh my only other complaint is that the monospace font is really hard to read
12:15:25 <truebrain> load a decent font 😛
12:15:29 <LordAro> perhaps white on purple isn't helping
12:15:39 <truebrain> but that is existing code 😄
12:16:07 <truebrain> anyway, the TOC, or the inability to hide elements after window creation, is just a bit annoying 😦
12:16:13 <truebrain> but maybe someone can iterate over that 😄
12:18:03 <alfagamma7> What sort of survey are we talking about
12:18:42 <truebrain> if only there was a blog where things were written 😛
12:19:02 <truebrain> or news posts .. call it what ever you want 😄
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12:21:53 <talltyler> This is what TrueBrain is referring to 😉
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12:28:36 <pickpacket> not all info from the survey should be made public. By combining things like Settings + OS + CPU + (especially) company names (are they included in the "companies" info?) a quite personalised fingerprint can be made
12:30:30 <pickpacket> well, if only aggregates are saved and published it's fine
12:30:48 <truebrain> did you even read the post, or did you just started to type? 🙂
12:32:00 <pickpacket> "as generic as possible" can mean many things depending on the metrics one wants
12:32:39 <truebrain> no, you are right, "Results are only published when sufficient surveys (N > 100) have been collected. If the sample size were too small, it might be possible to identify a single user. " doesn't say (anymore) what it should
12:32:59 <truebrain> it does imply heavily what happens, but it isn't as explicit as it could
12:34:41 <pickpacket> yeah, and then there's a question of what devs need to know vs what can be published. I mean graphs of settings are nice to publish, but maybe the devs want to know how many users are having one specific setting combined with one specific OS version and one specific NewGRF? If that could be the case then a whole lot of individual info has to be
12:35:30 <truebrain> I think the whole vibe of that page is clear, that we publish the results, that is the information we have. There is no backroom anything going on
12:36:20 <pickpacket> Of course I'm speaking hypothetically because 1) I don't know how you intend to use it, and 2) I truly trust that you don't want any info that can fingerprint users if aggregated
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12:36:36 <truebrain> the intend we wrote on those pages 🙂
12:36:54 <pickpacket> I know :) And I trust taht
12:38:06 <pickpacket> still though; be careful about info that *in aggregate* can fingerprint individual users
12:39:31 <truebrain> all I can say is that I hope that page makes it very clear we care and as such, are careful 🙂
12:40:37 <pickpacket> it does :) Please don't take this as a rant or scolding. When I worked with GDPR the whole aggregate thing was something most people had a hard time wrapping their head around
12:40:44 <truebrain> I wanted to add a "tldr; we don't care about you as individual" on that page, but that was pushing the language a bit 😄
12:41:11 <truebrain> not talking it as a rant or scolding 😄 Just trying out if the page is actually that clear, or if we need more words .. but more isn't better 😛
12:43:28 <pickpacket> nah, more isn't better. The page is clear enough to convey intent. I just want to make sure you all think that extra step when it comes to combining info to build profiles.
12:43:38 <pickpacket> And I'm SUPER curious about the results :D
12:44:06 <truebrain> ah, like that. Yup, I am rather annoying when it comes to processing information that might result in fingerprinting 😛
12:44:42 <truebrain> hence the N > 100, which is a bit more involved than just a number 😛
12:46:25 <truebrain> as example, we also receive the savegame id that the survey was based on
12:46:29 <truebrain> that is actually the N counter
12:46:36 <truebrain> so at least 100 different savegames resulting in a survey
12:46:49 <truebrain> just to prevent we over represent a single user playing a lot 😛
12:57:47 <talltyler> Should be ready for review, now that I’ve fixed annotations 🙂
12:58:08 <pickpacket> how is that id generated, in order to avoid the same id from several sources?
12:58:56 <truebrain> it is a random number; so conflicts are always possible, just highly unlikely
12:59:13 <truebrain> and even if it happens, they count as one survey, so not even a real problem in that sense 🙂
13:06:50 <_glx_> oh and if you don't trust the TOS just don't opt-in 🙂
13:07:13 <_glx_> because it will be off by default
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15:41:13 <jfs> truebrain: Random thought, how does it look with the forward/back buttons next to the ToC box instead of on title bar?
15:52:06 <jfs> The ToC box and nav buttons somewhat follow each other in need to be visible too, I think. If the document viewer is opened with an initial file that allows navigation, then you need all those controls. If the initial file does not allow navigation, then that window instance will never need them.
15:52:06 <jfs> The edge case is if the user moves the document viewer window to the side and then clicks another open doc button somewhere, and that newly opened file needs has opposite "needs nav" of the first file, then you will need to reinitialize
16:15:17 <truebrain> Personally, I really like the nav in the header. It really works. And yes, the window needs to be able to switch between toc/no-toc .. but reinit acts really odd
16:33:34 <truebrain> LordAro: It so sounds like a April 1st joke 😛
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17:51:06 <peter1139> I did a thing with something, and now I have a savegame compatibility problem :/
18:06:08 <LordAro> andythenorth: you know how you know websites?
18:08:42 <LordAro> might also be needed for bootstrap ?
18:10:17 <LordAro> but maybe that could be upgraded past needing jquery too?
18:10:41 <truebrain> You are going to hate my answer ... git clone and do it? 😄
18:11:44 <LordAro> sure, but testing is hard
18:11:54 <truebrain> you can run eints locally just fine
18:12:12 <LordAro> especially when you don't have access to the only page that actually uses that filestyle button type
18:12:25 <truebrain> locally you have access to EVERYTHING 😛
18:15:24 <truebrain> why would you think you wouldn't have access btw?
18:17:26 <LordAro> combination of because i don't have access in the live version and laziness in circumventing/setting up access when running a local version
18:17:43 <truebrain> ah; the local version has nothing to do with what we deployed for OpenTTD 🙂
18:17:54 <truebrain> you can't even use the authentication of the version we deployed for OpenTTD
18:18:09 <truebrain> so nothing to circumvent
18:18:21 <truebrain> from what I remember, eints by default has local user passwd like something
18:22:50 <truebrain> hmm .. I think `type(value) is str` is better?
18:22:59 <truebrain> can't remember what the difference was ..
18:24:02 <LordAro> i think there is a subtle difference involving inheritance and the like, but that doesn't apply here
18:24:40 <LordAro> in other places i've been doing that same change i figured that one function call was better than a function call + comparison
18:25:08 <truebrain> honestly, I care little; but keeping things the same would be nice
18:25:16 <truebrain> so pick one and apply to both, I would say?
18:25:53 <truebrain> Python is finally starting to do some optimization stuff .. curious how that works out, as that would change those balances completely 🙂
18:26:35 <LordAro> regression still failing anyway...
18:26:45 <truebrain> retriggering fixes it
18:26:48 <LordAro> 2023-09-12 18:23:03 [021_two_newgrfs.yaml ] CRITICAL Expected error during publish not triggered: More than one Content Type was detected, where only one was expected. For example, you are uploading both a NewGRF and a Scenario in the same package. This is not possible.
18:26:53 <truebrain> I still have no clue why ... timing issue somewhere ..
18:29:16 <peter1139> Hmm, so there's a chunk handler I don't ever remember writing to handle converting rail types if the labels change.
18:29:36 <peter1139> 2) Why don't I remember writing it...
18:29:56 <peter1139> 3) If it works, would road/tram types benefit from it?
18:30:25 <peter1139> (Or do they have it, just somewhere else...
18:37:22 <frosch123> it may be a relic from the enable/disable elrail thingie
18:38:08 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:41:27 <peter1139> It's way back in the SVN days, so no rationale.
18:41:56 <peter1139> Enable/disable elrail is separate.
18:42:24 <peter1139> And tbh it's clearly been written with the idea of handling road types later too.
18:50:52 <truebrain> I believe there is a setup doc, telling you how to configure the stuff
18:50:56 <truebrain> there are some _example files
18:51:11 <truebrain> I once made it through the whole thing, and get a setup running .... don't tell me how 😄 Maybe frosch123 has better instructions 🙂
18:52:17 <LordAro> none that are obvious
18:52:27 <LordAro> there's a makefile with a `run` rule, but that's what results in the above
18:52:37 <truebrain> docs/setup something is there, right?
18:52:43 <truebrain> and a bunch of _example.dat files or something?
18:52:57 <LordAro> lots of _example files indeed
18:53:27 <truebrain> why can I find a file you say doesn't exist? 😄
18:53:47 <LordAro> because you looked a folder deeper than i did!
18:55:42 <truebrain> and yes, this project still uses xml for configuration
18:59:15 <frosch123> it also uses .ini and .csv (with colon separation)
18:59:43 <frosch123> i am not sure whether there are two files with the same format :p
19:03:27 <LordAro> i'm not even getting to the /login handler, it's just looping immediately...
19:04:01 <truebrain> you have a config.xml?
19:04:11 <truebrain> with at least authentication = development in it?
19:05:31 <LordAro> yeah, it autogenerated that
19:05:40 <truebrain> ah, you used my wrapper 😛
19:05:58 <truebrain> (I wrote a wrapper around the stupid XML to generate it, as in a Docker it is hard to give a XML while you have arguments)
19:06:19 <LordAro> i'm just calling what the makefile calls...
19:06:24 <truebrain> anyway, yeah, maybe frosch123 has pointers; he has worked with it locally more than I have 🙂
19:06:28 <LordAro> ( .env/bin/python -m webtranslate.main )
19:06:33 <truebrain> I think the Makefile has 2 modes
19:06:45 <truebrain> one where a config.xml exists, and one where it doesn't
19:11:10 <frosch123> anyway, you will need to setup a project and more, it will take you 2+ hours when doing it the first time :p
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19:13:47 <LordAro> i wouldn't expect the lack of those two files to result in an immediate /login redirect loop
19:14:01 <LordAro> and the behaviour is unchanged after adding them anyway
19:14:40 <frosch123> did you do the rights.dat stuff
19:14:57 <frosch123> if you have no right to access the login page, it probably redirects you to the login page
19:20:40 <LordAro> don't understand why my prints didn't go anywhere though
19:40:29 <andythenorth> LordAro: delete it and see if the tests break? 🙂
19:41:22 <frosch123> no test completed successfully
19:41:57 <andythenorth> I get nagged by Github about outdated jquery and I am totally at a loss about how to solve that
19:42:10 <andythenorth> old tags have old libraries in, what's the supposed solution? 😛
19:42:34 <andythenorth> are we now deleting tags because security? I'd possibly be fine with that in some circumstance.
19:44:25 <LordAro> it's not warning you about old tags
19:44:42 <andythenorth> hmm no maybe not
19:45:09 <andythenorth> really uncertain what I'm missing here, but I don't see the fix
19:45:12 <andythenorth> maybe I should have dinner 😛
19:46:06 <truebrain> LordAro is going for "fix shit" PR 🙂
19:46:46 <LordAro> andythenorth: i only ask you because you added it originally
19:46:46 <truebrain> at any time feel free to slap a preview label on any PR there LordAro, and it will become available on the preview on openttd.org
19:47:30 <truebrain> allows you to test if you didn't break shit horribly 😛
19:47:37 <andythenorth> LordAro: yes, sorry I have no recollection any longer 🙂
19:47:46 <andythenorth> I could get a build and stuff and look
19:49:01 <andythenorth> generally jquery is irritating and vanilla bootstrap doesn't actually need it at all
19:49:14 <andythenorth> but we might have used some javascript for something like fancy dropdowns or something
19:50:59 <LordAro> i'll be honest i can't actually tell what jquery-filestyle is actually doing
19:51:08 <LordAro> other than applying to .btn-info
19:51:19 <andythenorth> my guess is that it styles file upload inputs
19:51:23 <andythenorth> based just on the name
19:51:29 <andythenorth> and the fact they used to need js to style them
19:51:40 <andythenorth> and we used to allow uploading files to newgrf eints I think
19:52:00 <andythenorth> this might be completely misleading
19:52:04 <LordAro> yeah, except btn-info is only used for the missing/invalid/outadted/unknown/correct buttons on the translation page
19:52:26 <andythenorth> if I tied to fix it, my strategies would be (1) delete it (2) if we find something broken, use latest jquery
19:53:30 <LordAro> oh no, i misunderstood, it *takes* the style from btn-info
19:53:40 <LordAro> but otherwise yes, styles file upload inputs
19:55:17 <andythenorth> want me to search for file input in src?
19:55:31 <andythenorth> this might be legacy from newgrf eints, and might be dead anyway
19:55:48 <LordAro> also yes, bootstrap-filestyle instead of jquery-filestyle
19:56:06 <LordAro> it's definitely legacy stuff, but eh, no real reason to remove it entirely
19:56:16 <andythenorth> I always kill web stuff with fire 😛
19:56:17 <LordAro> let me see what happens when i upgrade to bootstrap from this decade
19:56:31 <andythenorth> it's v2 to v5, the grid changed
19:56:34 <andythenorth> not my first rodeo
19:56:43 <andythenorth> it could be ported easily enough, but it's not a drop-in replacement
19:59:08 <andythenorth> I suspect no js is used in webtranslator, at least in the public non-authed pages
19:59:28 <andythenorth> trying to remember how to watch js run in the browser to see if any is executed
19:59:47 <LordAro> at first glance it looks no different at all
20:00:12 <LordAro> oh lol, browser caching
20:04:10 <peter1139> Yeah, v4 is probbly mostly the same but v5... fun.
20:04:35 <andythenorth> 2 to 3 was a big change
20:06:16 <peter1139> Ah right, never used it that far back.
20:06:47 <peter1139> Also, lol @ Unity engine fees. I wonder if they'll backtrack on that.
20:08:34 <truebrain> they went from a "you do you" to a "omg, we want money too" model 😛
20:08:56 <truebrain> good thing I switched to Godot like a year ago 🙂
20:09:12 <truebrain> not for finance reasons; just because it is much easier to work with it 🙂
20:09:47 <andythenorth> did I miss the merge of the help window thing? 🙂
20:09:51 <andythenorth> was looking nice this morning
20:10:31 <truebrain> no, I want to give the ToC one more try tomorrow.. see if I can get it just so ever prettier 😛
20:11:21 <truebrain> also tempted to let the ToC scroll with you when scrolling down ... but that might be pushing it 😄
20:43:36 <andythenorth> anyone know why drive-in vs. drive-thru roadstops are a thing?
20:43:50 <andythenorth> it predates me playing OpenTTD
20:47:27 <_glx_> articulated vehicles can't use drive-in
20:48:18 <_glx_> and only one vehicle can enter/exit
20:48:42 <_glx_> with slow enter/exit movement
20:49:31 <_glx_> and you need free space to build them
20:49:49 <andythenorth> and we kep drive-in because of compatibility?
20:52:24 <squirejames> Drive ins were the OG yes
20:52:43 <squirejames> Plus they do have some utility
20:53:39 <andythenorth> it creates RV set balancing problems
20:53:53 <andythenorth> as in, it creates the need for 'balanacing'
20:54:10 <andythenorth> the stop type, which isn't really about vehicles
20:54:15 <andythenorth> dictates how vehicles are structured
20:58:01 <_glx_> this is not used for openttd webtranslator I think
20:58:23 <andythenorth> my guess was that was the grf translator
20:58:31 <andythenorth> but I could be talking out of my arse 🙂
21:07:34 <truebrain> For dependabot, better to use his commands btw
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21:13:59 <truebrain> Those cancel emails you get are expected btw
21:14:41 <truebrain> Did you manage to do what you wanted to do? 😄
21:20:03 <truebrain> Hmm, happy preview works on PRs now 😄
21:51:24 <wallaby2> why do roundabouts make more sense in real life than in openttd?
21:51:51 <wallaby2> oh yeah, no stoplights
21:52:16 <wallaby2> it'd be cool to have "background traffic" between city tiles
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continue to next day ⏵
