IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-08-29
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05:59:38 <j0anjosep> Hi! I amb looking for the repo of airportsplus/opengfx+airports, but I get a 502 Bad Gateway error when I try to access to the project in openttdcoop. Is It available somewhere else?
06:23:15 <andythenorth> not sure if that's been moved to github, can't find it in the search
06:23:20 <andythenorth> I have a copy here I'll look
06:25:02 <andythenorth> hmm seems I don't have a copy sorry
06:25:20 <andythenorth> frosch123: did have access to them some while ago
06:27:56 <andythenorth> j0anjosep: looks like there's an OpenTTDCoop github organisation
06:28:30 <andythenorth> but the repos appear to be empty
06:32:45 <j0anjosep> andythenorth: Thank you
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07:24:27 <peter1139> Hmm, I should switch my mobile provider.
07:24:30 <peter1139> I could've done with more data last week but they wanted £10 to add 1GB.
07:57:38 <peter1139> Dear Gnome, I don't think I ever needed the "Open File" dialog window to pop up behind the current window...
08:20:03 <kamnet> j0anjosep: Took me a minute to find it.
08:31:04 <peter1139> Not exactly the repo, but there is some semblance of source code there.
08:41:37 <j0anjosep> kamnet: Thanks. The source code will be enough, though not having its history.
09:32:31 <andythenorth> sometimes I wish `vehicle.never_expire_vehicles` was a GUI filter option in the buy menu
09:32:36 <andythenorth> rather than a setting
09:32:43 <andythenorth> similar to 'hidden'
09:32:56 <andythenorth> "that probably doesn't work in multiplayer" or something 🙂
09:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's not the reason
09:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the setting has side effects on model rating, which a gui filter cannot have.
09:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can have a filter easily, but it can't replace the setting
09:35:09 <andythenorth> the user story here is that occasionally I want to buy an older engine
09:35:14 <andythenorth> for reasons
09:35:48 <andythenorth> but I don't want to see older wagons for purchase
09:36:01 <andythenorth> I considered handling it in the grf, but didn't figure out a nice way
09:36:55 <andythenorth> some players keep all their old engine in a depot then reuse them
09:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause> we could allow marking engines in phase 3 of the model life as "historic", which would increase running costs, but maintenance could set them higher than the model's reliability.
09:46:06 * andythenorth considers a secondhand market :P
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10:17:45 <emperorjake>
10:17:45 <emperorjake> The most egregious example is probably this variant of the Peasweep, arriving over 25 years after the introduction of the original
10:19:19 <emperorjake> I think this is a case for adding variant conversion, i.e. an ability to convert a vehicle from one variant to another without having to buy a new one. For me personally, variants can't replace livery refits until this feature is implemented.
10:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you just autoreplace it?
10:22:01 <brickblock19280> that resets age
10:22:04 <emperorjake> That still counts as buying a new one
10:23:04 <emperorjake> and therefore is impossible if the vehicle has expired
10:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but the whole point of variants was to NOT fiddle with that
10:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> to simplify the behind-the-scenes handling
10:25:56 <_glx_> Maybe a new flag for "replace is just repaint"
10:25:59 <emperorjake> I thought the point of variants was to replace livery refits, which they can't do if they have less functionality
10:26:27 <_glx_> And the grf decides
10:26:34 <Eddi|zuHause> no. the point was to have less functionality than livery refits, because that was overloaded
10:26:57 <_glx_> Livery don't work with autoreplace
10:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i don't understand the question. as far as i understood it, each variant has its own independent model life, so how can a variant be both newly introduced and expired at the same time?
10:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> also, variants can handle things like 3-car and 4-car versions of an EMU, with less clutter of the buy menu. switching between those isn't just "repainting"
10:35:08 <emperorjake> It should be possible to add an extra car to an EMU if the GRF allows it
10:35:24 <emperorjake> that's often done IRL after all
10:36:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't see what's the big difference to autoreplace.
10:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> certainly we're not reimplementing autoreplace "but without resetting the vehicle age"
10:38:50 <emperorjake> Because with autoreplace, you're scrapping a vehicle and building a completely new one, as opposed to repainting or converting it
10:40:23 <emperorjake> It's no longer the same vehicle
10:41:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if that's your immersion-breaking problem, but you accept spawning another EMU part out of thin air, nobody can help you.
10:49:07 <emperorjake> But spawning wagons out of thin air is how the train depots have always worked, it's no different from buying a new wagon and attaching it to an existing train
10:50:39 <peter1139> Purchase wagon... please wait 3 months for it to be built.
10:50:56 <emperorjake> Of course, that's why GRFs can set refit costs, so that the extra wagon isn't free. Presumably a hypothetical conversion feature would have the same ability, but that would add exactly the kind of bloat you don't want.
10:51:09 <peter1139> No amount of saying "until this feature is implemented" actually gets a feature implemented.
10:51:14 <emperorjake> Oh well, no big deal, variants and refits will continue coexisting 🙂
10:55:16 <peter1139> Refits are dead.
10:56:41 <andythenorth> the problem in the case above is Horse
10:56:54 <andythenorth> trying to limit liveries to RL-ish dates
10:57:12 <andythenorth> my code doesn't work properly anyway, some of the variants are introduced, then unintroduced 😛
10:57:15 <andythenorth> or some similar bug
10:58:13 <andythenorth>
10:58:13 <andythenorth> I tend not to worry about costs
10:58:52 <andythenorth> and the age reset thing is valid...but I am using the cheat-based daylength implementation, so all vehicle age stats are screwed
11:10:14 <peter1139> Hmm, whose music do I need to delete this week?
11:24:05 <peter1139> Also, how do I disable cleartype in VS Code...
11:37:06 <peter1139> Ah, by restarting it after changing the system setting, apparently.
11:49:17 <peter1139> Urgh, I need to extract my gpg key from Windows... where does that even live :/
12:02:01 <kamnet> Windows has security?
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12:35:24 <peter1139> Well...
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18:29:56 <andythenorth> hmm
18:29:59 <andythenorth> was it lunch though?
18:37:35 <peter1139> Not for another 18 hours...
18:43:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] zephyris commented on issue #11230: [Bug]: Sort by button is misaligned with OpenGFX2.
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18:56:08 * andythenorth wonders how the game assigns 'city' to towns
18:56:10 <andythenorth> probably just random
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19:05:47 <ketsuban> Looks like it's determined in `GenerateTowns`.
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19:07:16 <peter1139> And it's nothing to do with cathedrals...
19:12:43 <andythenorth> could have been 😛
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19:48:17 <andythenorth>
19:48:17 <andythenorth> I won
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20:19:44 <kuhnovic> I was playing FIRS steeltown the other day, which meant that I had to create lots of different trains which have to carry different kinds of cargo. Note that I was also using the Dutch Train Set which is rather large.
20:19:44 <kuhnovic> I typically use the "sort by max speed" filter to select the fastest loc. Then I have to select a cargo filter in the dropdown list, and sort by "capacity" to get the most out of the wagons. I have different criteria for locs VS wagons, and this results in a lot of clicking which got quite annoying at some point.
20:19:44 <kuhnovic> I'm thinking about ways to improve the user experience here. Would it make sense to have dedicated dropdowns/lists for locs vs wagons for example?
20:21:10 <kuhnovic> And yes I know you have the ability to "hide stuff you don't need", but that quite a pain for large trains sets, and you need to keep the list up to date as new locs / wagons are made available
20:21:14 <andythenorth> JGRPP splits locomotives and wagons to separate windows
20:21:22 <andythenorth> which I think is slightly better
20:21:31 <andythenorth> it also sounds like Dutch set problems though
20:21:53 <andythenorth> if all the wagons aren't identical stats except cargo, that's a problem
20:22:48 <andythenorth>
20:22:48 <andythenorth> unrelated, but lol this is what happens after peter1138 added 'create group' from anywhere
20:23:00 <andythenorth> 'such organisation'
20:23:10 <andythenorth> basically I'm creating a group for every shared order set
20:23:19 <andythenorth> which possibly we should just make the computer do, optionally
20:23:21 <peter1139> Well...
20:23:33 <andythenorth> I's a great feature 🙂
20:23:34 <peter1139> Pretty sure JGRPP had it first...
20:23:38 <andythenorth> probably
20:23:46 <andythenorth> rinse, repeat that comment 😛
20:24:06 <peter1139> Trying to get this spoke into the nipple without taking the tyre and rimtape off. I think this is a pointless endeavour...
20:24:30 <andythenorth> do you end up with spoke poking through the palm of your hand?
20:29:02 <kuhnovic> peter1139: Hold the nipple with needle nose pliers and twist it until the threads are starting to grab, then finish with a spoke tensioner. Definitely not as easy as it might sound.
20:29:41 <kuhnovic> And don't get confused about which kind of nipple i'm talking about
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20:32:53 <kuhnovic> andythenorth: I think they are, but there's just sooooo many of them hehe
20:42:22 <kuhnovic>
20:42:22 <kuhnovic> andythenorth: Oh man this is awesome, why is this not in vanilla 🥺
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20:43:24 <talltyler> Needs somebody to open a PR to upstream it! I would also quite like to see that in vanilla and would happily review 🙂
20:44:48 <kuhnovic> I might look into that when I have time. That might take some time though, I'm in the middle of moving houses
20:48:59 <andythenorth> does it fit small viewports?
20:49:08 <andythenorth> that was the historical objection to most window changes
20:49:10 <talltyler> Oof, I know how much work that can be. Ten times in eight years, and about 10,000 miles. 🙃
20:50:27 <peter1139> NewGRFs, NewMapArray, NewMyths...
20:53:44 <talltyler> Peter, did you reject Discord or are you Peter++?
21:06:02 <peter1139> kuhnovic, spokes are not exactly the same so the nipple is different, so... tyre off, saved as much goo as possible, hole in rim tip, 20 minutes trying to get the old nipple out from inside the rim *rattle* *rattle*
21:06:46 <peter1139> (Apparently getting the same spoke gauge and length is not enough.)
21:08:40 <peter1139> Actually no, I think I know what it is.
21:08:55 <peter1139> The spoke snapped didn't it. It's still in the fricking nipple!
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21:10:40 <peter1139> andythenorth, anyway, that image is 1001 pixels wide. Given it is at 2x, we can surmise that at 1x it would be about 500 pixels wide.
21:10:44 <peter1139> Which is less that 640.
21:11:32 <peter1139> Also I would suggest a zoom button (like on the signal gui) which toggles between single list and dual list.
21:12:38 <peter1139> talltyler, I've switch to Linux and it's easier to just use the terminal than opening up a bloated app with annoying popups.
21:12:52 <peter1139> Although being able to edit messages would be useful ;D
21:13:36 <peter1139> Ah neat, John Romero is live-streaming making Doom maps again.
21:13:58 <peter1139> kuhnovic, fingers sticky/gritty with goo, e
21:14:12 <peter1139> even after several goes at washing it off...
21:17:14 <kuhnovic> peter1138: Oh man I feel your pain. I've been through too many spoke repairs already. The "best" one was when a drunk friend managed to break 8 spokes on my front wheel in one go...
21:17:28 <peter1139> Oof.
21:17:57 <peter1139> I've also seen that a few "inside" spokes are mangled from when the chain came off the big sprocket once :/
21:18:10 <peter1139> They're holding for now but are going to be weakened.
21:19:20 <peter1139> At least it's modern, not an old freewheel where if too many spokes go you are stuck with the freewheel stuck on the hub and no way to repair.
21:19:42 <peter1139> (Other than cutting all the remaining spokes and hoping you can get enough leverage on the hub to get the freewheel unscrewed.)
21:26:41 <kuhnovic> Ugh, the designs bike companies come up with sometimes...
21:28:49 <kuhnovic> Reminds me of the brand Gazelle. They decided that it was a good idea to make chain tensioners out of plastic...
21:28:54 <peter1139> I think even the cheapest of cheap bikes use freehubs these days.
21:29:03 <peter1139> Hah
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21:42:42 <peter1139> What about that e-bike brand that went tits up... and they'd decided to mostly use proprietory parts...
21:43:13 <kuhnovic> Van Moof... yeah I'm glad I don't own one of those
21:50:39 <locosage> andythenorth: it doesn't really need two panels at once, can split it into two tabs or smth
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22:25:05 <peter1139> Hmm, now that I've properly taken the tyre off, I've found the original cause of the sidewall puncture. A 2" nail through the tread of the tyre which poked another hole out the side...
22:27:48 <andythenorth> any kevlar?
22:29:30 <peter1139> No but it has enough buzzwords to get bored.
22:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so i can imagine it like this: the tyre got punctured by the nail, but the original puncture was sealed up and not immediately noticeable. but the unremoved nail made secondary damage which was not recoverable?
22:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried running your bike on an MBP?
22:43:09 <andythenorth> cheaper
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22:54:45 <andythenorth> hmm bedtime
22:55:14 <peter1139> Nahj
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