IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-08-05
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01:40:33 <woobilicious> is there a guide on modding the GUI? wrangling this code is giving me a headache.
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09:28:54 * andythenorth playing a lot of Tropico
09:29:07 <andythenorth> Trying to zen it
09:30:35 <andythenorth> Rushing the missions incurs costs which the economy can’t sustain
09:32:03 <truebrain> lol, I am having a negative amount of online servers, accoriding to the metrics 😛
09:32:08 <truebrain> some bookkeeping is just a bit off 😄
09:33:20 <truebrain> ah, yes, I forgot some places to do proper math at .. lol
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09:49:04 <truebrain> fun fact: compared to BaNaNaS, multiplayer uses almost no bandwidth 😛
09:58:24 <truebrain> on multiplayer (in constrats to the earlier BaNaNaS of a few days ago). Similar image, it shows.
09:58:51 <truebrain> Summary of the multiplayer stats of the last 18 hours
09:59:12 <truebrain> especially the IPv6 is a nice surprise .. 28% of the connection is IPv6 enabled
09:59:59 <truebrain> fetching the multiplayer list is ~30KiB .. which is a fraction of what the BaNaNaS listing is
10:01:56 <truebrain> the main "problem" with multiplayer, is that about 1/3rd of the connect requests are to servers that are currently not online (invalid-invite-code, from the coordinators perspective)
10:01:59 <truebrain> that is just funny 😛
10:03:49 <truebrain> a picture that belongs to that remark
10:21:25 <truebrain> it is funny, since the migration there are no "out-of-method" errors anymore. This happens when no method was found to connect two people, which should never happen. But in the old infra, things weren't always as they should, and sometimes it did happen. But not anymore \o/
10:28:14 <peter1138> So you fixed a bug without knowing the cause.
10:28:23 <truebrain> no, I know the cause
10:28:29 <truebrain> it was just something I couldn't fix in the old infra 🙂
10:30:05 <truebrain> the TURN service is pretty funny .. it uses ~10 KiB/s, but does ~20k packets per minute 😛
10:30:31 <truebrain> (or maybe better put, ~300 packets per second)
10:30:39 <truebrain> lot of tiny packets 😄
10:32:40 <truebrain> and after all this, still not sure why the coordinator uses ~150 MHz .. I guess the ~6 server update per second it has to process is just taking time
10:33:15 <peter1138> It'll be fine on andy's MBP.
10:33:17 <truebrain> (every server reports in every 30s with their latest information; but with 200 servers, this means 6 times per second a server reports in)
10:33:32 <truebrain> and the 150 MHz isn't an issue; it is just unexpected
10:33:35 <peter1138> Maybe 30s is too much?
10:33:54 <peter1138> "Oh no my server data is out of date, woeeeeeaaahh!"
10:34:14 <truebrain> well, even with 60s, it would be 75 MHz I guess, and that is still a lot 😛
10:34:24 <truebrain> it is just more work per update than I would expect; so I wonder if I did something silly
10:35:56 <truebrain> hmm, yeah, especially servers with NewGRF do a bit of redis talk
10:36:27 <peter1138> NewGRFs don't need to be updated every 30 seconds -- they should only change on new game.
10:37:23 <truebrain> # This update is sent after the first, and is meant just as
10:37:23 <truebrain> # notification the NewGRFs are still in use. A server cannot change
10:37:23 <truebrain> # NewGRFs in a running game, so as long as this packet is sent, the
10:37:23 <truebrain> # server is not actually changing NewGRFs.
10:37:29 <truebrain> seems I agree'd with you when I wrote this 😛
10:38:03 <truebrain> still a bit of redis talk, to make sure the entries don't expire
10:38:17 <truebrain> (this is a way to auto-prune the list of active NewGRFs, to make sure the server-listing is as small as possible)
10:38:43 <truebrain> so this makes me wonder if I install hiredis .. where the redis protocol is implemented in C, and not in Python
10:41:07 <peter1138> Checking on Strava to see which nutters went out in the rain this morning...
10:41:16 <truebrain> does it start with an L?
10:41:42 <peter1138> If he did it's too early for him to be back yet 🙂
11:29:03 <truebrain> let's see if that makes any difference 🙂
11:29:37 <peter1138> Are you parts-cannoning the infrastructure? 😄
11:30:12 <truebrain> I had to look that up 😛
11:30:35 <truebrain> "educated guesses", is how I would word it 🙂
11:35:16 <truebrain> right, enough toying around with the coordinator for one day 🙂
11:36:37 <truebrain> seems that caused CPU to drop with ~30%
11:36:41 <truebrain> so I have that going for me 🙂
11:37:40 <truebrain> "even a broken clock is right twice a day" 😛
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11:41:11 <georgevb> George-VBviaGitHub: Is it a hard to fix bug?
11:41:11 <georgevb> Should I look for workaround because it not likely to be fixed soon?
11:45:32 <peter1138> It's a "nobody has look at it yet and it was only posted 2 days ago" bug.
11:47:35 <georgevb> Could you have a quick look? Not fix it, but just say "it seems to be easy to fix" or "not".
11:49:01 <peter1138> Sure, my PayPal address is...
11:56:18 <LordAro> that's a very hard question to answer
11:56:29 <LordAro> at all accurately, anyway
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13:30:55 <andythenorth> Was there Alpine Climate?
13:31:28 <andythenorth> Mostly swiss grfs
13:38:29 <belajalilija> andythenorth: dach set could fit too
13:39:35 <belajalilija> i think grfs from slovenia and any nation that borders switzerland would fit in an alpine vibe
13:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that almost sounds like slovenia is bordering switzerland :p
13:46:27 <belajalilija> Eddi|zuHause: i couldnt think of a better way to phrase it
13:47:54 <belajalilija> slovenian houses to give me that alpine vibe though
13:50:14 <andythenorth> Why was Alpine Climate deprecated for general use? I forget
13:50:15 <andythenorth> Was there some licensing shenans?
13:50:15 <andythenorth> Or did it break industry grfs or something?
14:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no such thing ever happened
14:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, alpine is itself an industry set, which makes it incompatible with other industry sets
14:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the snow roofs only work with the original grf, not opengfx
14:06:12 <belajalilija> i cant remember but are you from the uk or north america?
14:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the real question is: how many people in here live more northern than andy :p
14:07:46 <belajalilija> well then i'd need to know where he lives
14:08:10 <belajalilija> if he doesnt mind my asking
14:25:12 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: Was definitely a coop era YOU MUST NOT USE mantra about it
14:25:48 <andythenorth> Possibly because the snow transition tiles might have copyright issues.
14:26:05 <andythenorth> Or maybe it’s not on bananas
14:27:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: Probably quite a lot, accurate latitude is not easy to understand on conventional european maps 😛
14:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there are lots of reasons like this, but you're probably exaggerating...
14:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (i mean about alpine, not about maps)
14:31:22 <andythenorth> The coop irc channel used to be very opinionated :p
14:32:10 <andythenorth> Probably only 10 regular people, so perhaps unrepresentative 😛
14:34:40 <talltyler> Alpine is green grass and snow? OpenGFX+ Landscape has that. 🙂
14:35:44 <michi_cc[d]> At least the original Alpine from mb is only compatible with the original graphics and doesn't look good at all with OpenGFX.
14:59:21 <truebrain> 15% of our servers are invite-only. I expected that number to be a lot higher, honestly 🙂
14:59:34 <truebrain> either it isn't really understood, or most people actually cares that much 😛
15:01:01 <truebrain> on the other hand, there are ~200 active servers, but there are ~500 registrations in the last 6 hours
15:01:11 <truebrain> lot of servers seems to exist for a short amount of time 😛
15:18:07 <peter1138> Urgh, updating some code that uses a library that changed a lot.
15:18:20 <peter1138> How do I load a .tga file for OpenGL...?
15:23:01 <andythenorth> Did we add funiculars yet?
15:23:01 <andythenorth> Special vehicle movement needed for the passing place
15:25:13 <belajalilija> andythenorth: ive been thinking about it
15:25:43 <belajalilija> but special movement wouldnt be needed for mine
15:25:56 <belajalilija> it could probably be coded as a tram and timetabled
15:26:05 <belajalilija> since it is water powered, one goes up, the other goes down, etc
15:26:30 <alfagamma_0007> As a tramtype then
15:27:22 <andythenorth> It’s the first gameplay feature in ages where the answer isn’t just “GS” 😛
15:27:39 <belajalilija> is rackrail a thing yet?
15:27:52 <alfagamma_0007> Bad idea 442: How about adding rail ferries?
15:27:53 <belajalilija> that could be a gameplay feature too
15:28:03 <belajalilija> alfagamma_0007: also something i want
15:28:10 <alfagamma_0007> Or truck ferries
15:28:12 <belajalilija> since before the bridges denmark used rail ferries
15:28:23 <alfagamma_0007> or any sort of decent actual ferries
15:31:02 <FLHerne> rail ferries would make the scale difference painfully obvious though
15:31:30 <FLHerne> even the very largest, clippiest NewGRF ships are only about 3 tiles long
15:31:48 <peter1138> Depots are only a tile long.
15:32:23 <FLHerne> yeah, so I use the overlapping-tiles-fake-depots grf
15:32:31 <FLHerne> also there's a patch for that ;-)
15:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> belajalilija: rack rails exist as grf
15:41:37 <belajalilija> Eddi|zuHause: do the functio?
15:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if you code the vehicle set for it, yes
15:41:56 <belajalilija> in that trains gain a fuckton of traction from them?
15:42:33 <belajalilija> this makes me happy
15:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the thing is, it doesn't really make sense at openttd scale, because trains don't really have problems climbing slopes
15:43:06 <belajalilija> yeah but it would make sense for me
15:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and the higher TE doesn't compensate for the low speed
15:44:51 <belajalilija> i plan to do my own sbb set eventually, containing all of the vehicles from the current set, adding some of my own, adding narrow gauge and adding running sounds and cc, because it would be also to my own scale it would very much be its own thing and not a replacement of the original thing
15:45:37 <belajalilija> i often build so that i go up at most 1 tile per 5-7 tiles, even flatter with longer trains
15:45:47 <belajalilija> so rack rail would be fun
15:46:37 <talltyler> You might not even need special tramtype rails, just use a regular tram and only build it on a slope
15:46:48 <talltyler> Pittsburgh had some curved funiculars
15:47:11 <talltyler> Including one that hauled freight, which I guess was more like a cableway
15:47:43 <belajalilija> talltyler: that'd work for me, but not sure about andy's idea
15:53:37 <andythenorth> I don’t have a specific idea 😛
15:56:45 <belajalilija> this all is just making me wanna go there myself
16:57:15 <andythenorth> There are funiculars and metre gauge trains everywhere
16:58:09 <andythenorth> Every small town is like, “yeah of course we’ve got a funicular, don’t even mention it”
16:58:59 <andythenorth> And all the bigger places just casually have a meter gauge mini-metro and a cog train
17:35:59 <peter1138> Well, I managed to get this code to compile, but it does not display anything 😦
17:47:31 <peter1138> Maybe OpenGL just isn't working in WSL2.
17:49:17 <truebrain> depends on what parts of OpenGL, I guess 😛
17:49:42 <peter1138> Very basic. Maybe too basic, it's all immediate mode...
17:50:02 <truebrain> sometimes OpenGL in OpenTTD works via WSL2
17:50:04 <truebrain> but sometimes it doesn't
17:50:10 <truebrain> haven't checked when it does and doesn't 😄
17:51:38 <truebrain> currently, it doesn't. When I was looking into the Wayland issues, it did
17:51:50 <truebrain> but wayland is also not working 😛
17:52:56 <peter1138> The fact that glfw is actually creating a window is suggesting that it is working, but... it's black, whatever I do.
17:57:57 <truebrain> I think it picks up the wrong SDL library for me, which doesn't have wayland support .. but it should .. owh well .. it is weird 😛
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18:07:59 <peter1138> Hmm, cannot find laptop power supply to try that. Although I'm sure I used to be able to build this to run on Windows, some how.
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19:23:49 <truebrain> nope, WSL is refusing to load anything but the llvmpipe .. it should load the d3d ... no clue what I do to brake it 😛
19:27:30 <peter1138> Hmm, I could re-enable dual booting on my desktop, and try with real Linux.
19:30:58 <truebrain> `libva error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/d3d12_drv_video.so init failed`
19:31:05 <truebrain> okay, at least that is finally an error I can do something with 🙂
19:40:15 <truebrain> owh, more people mention that this happened after updating WSL to a more recent version .. guess that is related
20:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause> why is it that when you need a pen once every 10 years, you can't find one?
20:22:53 <debdog> because they got bored and left to the pencil planet?
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