IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-07-03
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06:16:03 <peter1138> Oh it doesn't build 😄
06:16:34 <peter1138> Does but regression is different.
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07:24:24 <peter1138> Okay, reverting the 'it's a giant complex dropdown' look.
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07:48:13 <_zephyris> Eddi|zuHause: Worked perfectly, thank you. Two instances of too few sprires in a template, two replace_new offset typos, and one mystery...
07:49:43 <_zephyris> Does anyone know what the last two sprites in the elrail catenary replace_new set are for?
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09:20:52 <emperorjake> Semi related issue, but why can't we make [middle] the default position for orders?
09:26:55 <peter1138> You can, it's just not the default default position.
09:37:14 <emperorjake> I know, but I'm saying it should be the default
09:38:16 <emperorjake> [far end] may be how TTD did it, but it looks worse in most circumstances
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10:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause> _zephyris: tunnel entrance?
10:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe depot entrance
11:03:46 <brickblock19280> turns out it is hard to test your code when it isn't being used
11:42:04 <_glx_> But my math can be wrong
11:46:20 <peter1138> Hmm, I've been asked to change some fonts (hah) to "monotype grotesque" and true to form, it looks quite grotesque :/
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12:35:51 <peter1138> And they want it to be a light variant. So it goes to shit with fallback fonts.
12:42:27 <_glx_> and my math was wrong after testing
12:47:33 <talltyler> Hover or clicked-on-to-highlight?
12:47:52 <peter1138> Hover, given clicked on is the action that changes the value (iirc)
12:48:29 <talltyler> You have to click twice to change - once to highlight, again to change
12:48:40 <talltyler> If you’re already highlighted one click is enough
12:48:43 <peter1138> Ah, okay, then that may work better and fit in better.
12:49:19 <talltyler> I don’t think we use hover anywhere in OpenTTD, do we?
12:50:02 <peter1138> There's an OnHover "event" but it's not actually used.
12:50:18 <peter1138> OnTooltip is a special case for OnHover.
12:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> we're still at the stage where "the order gui needs a complete overhaul"
12:51:03 <peter1138> I suspec whatever was in OnHover when it was added has since been moved elsewhere.
12:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i would have expected OnHover was introduced with OnTooltip, in expectance of using it at some point?
12:55:21 <peter1138> Nope, I added OnTooltip much later, and that probably removed all the users of OnHover.
12:56:41 <peter1138> Before OnTooltip, OnHover was how custom tooltips (i.e. using parameters, not static strings) were made, but it required each instance to implement the "should we display a tooltip yet" tests.
12:58:01 <peter1138> There's other places where the word "hover" is used but they are talking about cursor position while doing drag & drop.
12:59:21 <talltyler> Yeah, I’m definitely not using hover here. The most consistent thing with the rest of the UI is another drop-down, but…ugh. We already have too many dropdowns in that window
12:59:58 <peter1138> Display it when selected
13:07:25 <talltyler> Maybe I can fit a 5th drop-down by shortening the existing drop-down titles: “non-stop / Full load / Unload all / Refit”
13:08:28 <talltyler> Eddi: It does need an overhaul, but in lieu of any clear visions, I’m approaching it from an incremental approach
13:08:58 <talltyler> Another PR for later: make Transfer the default unloading action on that button, instead of Unload All
13:10:49 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about that
13:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> like, you never need transfer if you have cargodist enabled
13:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> also, transfer is probably the most confusing for new players
13:20:20 <talltyler> Unload All has an even more niche use case
13:21:11 <talltyler> And who uses CargoDist for freight? I see that question all the time from new players, often about transferring cargo from ships to trains or trains to road vehicles for final delivery
13:21:31 <talltyler> Plus that one isn’t a change geared towards new players, that’s a click I want to save myself 🙂
13:21:34 <peter1138> Without cargo dist is... meh
13:22:41 <talltyler> Fair enough, I think it mostly disrupts boost cargos in FIRS and other industry sets that need specific amounts of things
13:23:00 <talltyler> Do you use Unload All?
13:23:36 <emperorjake> Cargodist + FIRS is very inconvenient without JGRPP's equal distribution feature
13:23:48 <peter1138> I don't play FIRS, it's has way too much in it.
13:24:35 <emperorjake> I didn't enable cargodist for freight before that was a thing
13:24:55 <emperorjake> but now I play with it on for everything (except sometimes raw materials)
13:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a conflict with the "effect of distance on demand" which should be high for passengers but low for freight
13:35:53 <brickblock19280> that could be fixed by doing it per cargo class
13:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that would mean more settings
13:41:59 <_glx_> that should explain why regression test fails for MSVC
14:14:09 <alfagamma_0007> Vanilla openttd has timetables
14:16:45 <Rubidium_> _glx_: maybe because of the const std::string returned from GetEncodedText()?
14:18:12 <Rubidium_> might it work if the const is removed?
14:23:05 <Rubidium_> rbijker.net/openttd/fix-11103.diff
14:37:06 <_glx_> with the diff it seems to work fine
14:37:17 <_glx_> running ctest to be sure
14:39:11 <ahyangyi> brickblock19280: We can select tunnel types now? 😮
14:39:35 <brickblock19280> or well you can but they are all the same
14:41:39 <ahyangyi> That's the best kind of choices
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15:46:47 <andythenorth> don't use cargodist if you actually want to distribute to more than 2 destinations 😛
15:46:54 <andythenorth> it doesn't work for freight
15:47:34 <andythenorth> it works less well than it might, for freight
15:49:29 <peter1138> I think I imagined somebody starting work on cargo dest...
15:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that was michicc
15:58:50 <andythenorth> we hallucinated it
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16:11:45 <peter1138> > // Copy font name, as it needs to be valid after this scope.
16:12:41 <Rubidium_> I reckoned something like that was behind it
16:12:51 <peter1138> Also it made sense :p
16:12:54 <Rubidium_> though I hope you didn't stredup anything in your patch :D
16:44:38 <LordAro> In an attempt to diagnose my repeatedly blue-screening computer, I am currently running without a graphics driver
16:44:50 <LordAro> This means a single screen at a very stretched 1024x768 resolution
16:47:30 <merni> hey I just blue-screened too
16:47:41 <merni> but first time on this laptop
16:50:25 <peter1138> That sounds like a graphics driver to me.
16:50:36 <peter1138> 80x25 text mode is without a graphics driver 🙂
16:51:13 <merni> do modern monitors even use 80x25 text mode?
16:51:30 <merni> whenever I use linux in text mode it's much more than that
16:52:20 <peter1138> No, even old monitors didn't have text modes. Monitors display video signals.
16:52:47 <peter1138> Sometimes a something a bit quirky, like vector...
16:54:39 <_zephyris> So probably genuinely unused... TTDPatch holdover?
16:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> _zephyris: might very well be a TTDPatch thing
17:03:20 <Eddi|zuHause> _glx_: but it doesn't say what they were meant to be
17:03:38 <_glx_> at least it shows the sprites
17:05:31 <_glx_> and SPR_ELRAIL_BASE + 44 is part of the 48 catenary sprites
17:05:53 <_zephyris> Hmm, there's a chance I'm being dumb... I'll take another look when the kids are in bed!
17:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> _glx_: but the last two sprites look blank to me
17:07:19 <_glx_> yeah I don't know what they are used for
17:16:02 <_glx_> oh might be a TTDP memory alignment thing (0x30 is better than 0x28 I guess)
17:19:41 <_jgr_> brickblock19280: Are you trying to develop something, why do you keep posting all these broken screenshots?
17:20:12 <brickblock19280> I am trying to add custom newgrf tunnels
17:22:40 <_glx_> but tunnels are part of railtrack (and road/tram but those are more limited)
17:24:22 <brickblock19280> currently I have gotten the tunnel botton to open a copy of the build bridge widnow and build a tunnel once that has been done
17:24:55 <_glx_> usually GUI is the last thing to do 🙂
17:25:35 <brickblock19280> probably but it seemed easier to start there
17:25:56 <_glx_> GUI is the hardest part (at least for me)
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17:26:41 <brickblock19280> it seems hard to test the other parts wiothout it tho
17:36:22 <merni> why is the base graphics in the online preview game missing sprites?
17:37:51 <merni> can't that be updated on the server?
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18:07:53 <andythenorth> shall we extend GS today then?
18:13:04 <merni> LordAro: How do I test the emscripten build locally, though?
18:15:18 <LordAro> merni: there's a readme in that dir :p
18:15:32 <LordAro> not that i have any knowledge of it myself
18:17:17 <merni> I'll take a look, thanks
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18:40:41 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:41:54 <merni> LordAro: It looks like the newer versions of OpenGFX are not available in that CDN link
18:47:28 <truebrain> just update in-game to the latest version
18:52:34 <merni> "Could not connect to the content server..."
19:26:56 <andythenorth> when is GS initialised during newgame?
19:27:05 <_glx_> online content used to be available in previews
19:28:29 <andythenorth> or to put it another way, the grf could really benefit from knowing if a specific GS is present
19:31:25 <andythenorth> alternatively we could let GS modify the grf
19:31:30 <_glx_> but as said, GS is only on the server
19:31:43 <_glx_> so grf on client will desync
19:32:28 <_glx_> and GS is started at the end of map generation
19:32:33 <andythenorth> the server can't issue commands to the clients to modify the grf?
19:32:39 <andythenorth> we could let the GS write grf in place
19:35:25 <andythenorth> literally replace sprites 😛
19:36:15 <peter1138> Have you considered descrribing what you want to achieve, other than "gs and grf talk" or "gs control grf" or "grf control gs"?
19:38:20 <andythenorth> right now I want to add electricity
19:38:25 <andythenorth> which requires power plants
19:38:34 <andythenorth> but if the GS isn't present the power plants are meaningless
19:38:42 <andythenorth> so they shouldn't be available
19:41:17 <truebrain> _glx_: it should work, yes .. but possibly something goes wrong with the websocket connection it tries to establish .. I actually didn't test that after migration, I have to admit 🙂
19:41:40 <andythenorth> unrelated to the idea above, GS needs to be able to set industry prod_level
19:42:10 <_glx_> basically you want unbuildable industries, unless built by GS
19:42:36 <peter1138> "But not just any GS"
19:43:13 <andythenorth> well I've only got 1 😛
19:44:41 <_glx_> in coordination with prop17 and prop18
19:47:23 <andythenorth> currently using a side channel flag to tell the grf to increase on cb 35
19:47:36 <andythenorth> it sucks because the GS has no idea what the industry production level is currently
19:47:57 <andythenorth> and the timing isn't necessarily reliable between GS and grf
19:48:01 <_glx_> side channel is never a good idea
19:50:07 <andythenorth> well I set GSIndustry.INDCTL_NO_PRODUCTION_INCREASE to false every month
19:50:17 <andythenorth> then remove it for industries that should increase
19:50:43 <andythenorth> but that means FIRS will only now work with the GS
19:51:55 <andythenorth> industries will always increase, from game start
19:54:05 <_glx_> well the grf should still work without GS
19:54:26 <andythenorth> I could rely on combos of the other flags
19:54:34 <andythenorth> there are 3 bits, so 8 values
19:55:05 <_glx_> abusing the flags could have weird results if another GS is used
19:55:31 <_glx_> never assume your GS will be used
19:56:17 <andythenorth> waproblem for later 🙂
19:56:26 <_glx_> people already change stuff in running game while we say they shoud not
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20:00:47 <andythenorth> when we get enough crashes via sentry, someone will fix GS <-> grf
20:05:37 <peter1138> No, no amount to saying "someone will fix" will actually help.
20:09:38 <talltyler> “Somebody” will fix it “someday”
20:12:10 <andythenorth> so we're not going to let GS rewrite arbitrary sprites in grf?
20:12:38 <andythenorth> I had the most horrible idea for how to do it 😛
20:13:08 <andythenorth> involving grfcodec generating 'templates' then string substituting them in python to create squirrel string templates
20:13:46 <peter1138> "Sprites" are only loaded on start up.
20:16:30 <andythenorth> another beautiful concept dies
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20:36:18 <andythenorth> so this JSON messaging protocol idea 😛
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20:38:19 <locosage> let gs send wasm to execute xD
20:42:55 <andythenorth> most of the things I want to do could be done without GS - grf comms
20:43:01 <andythenorth> just let GS mutate more game state
20:43:25 <andythenorth> I'll probably be the 3rd person to complain if GS start 'breaking' grfs
20:43:35 <andythenorth> in unintended ways
20:43:46 <andythenorth> so I guess we have to depend on explicit communication
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22:24:56 <locosage> I would've used plane cheat on citymania servers if there were any large airplanes 😆
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