IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-06-30
⏴ go to previous day
01:33:15 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
01:59:27 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
02:33:32 *** debdog has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
03:00:05 *** herms has quit IRC (Quit: bye)
03:45:07 *** belajalilija has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** kageblink has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** triple_xx has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** jfs has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** frosch123 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** gebik4544 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** ahyangyi has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** _glx_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** brickblock19280 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** DorpsGek_v has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** bigyihsuan has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** locosage has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** nerryoob has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** emperorjake has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** _jgr_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** andythenorth has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** peter1138 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** truebrain has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** _zephyris has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:07 *** talltyler has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
03:45:31 *** DorpsGek_v has joined #openttd
04:35:28 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
06:05:31 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
06:38:22 *** DDR has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
07:48:12 *** soylent_cow[m] has joined #openttd
07:54:31 <LordAro> looks like the bridge fell over (has fallen over?) again
07:58:26 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
08:00:01 <peter1138> Well. I guess it did but nobody's been speaking on Discord all night 😄
08:06:49 <peter1138> Oh, how is it past 9am already 😦
08:08:05 <LordAro> a lot easier when you're on holiday
08:16:59 *** m3henry has quit IRC (Quit: m3henry)
08:22:42 *** _aD has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
08:27:34 <pickpacket> Daily in three minutes. Should probably join the teams meeting now, because I'll have forgotten it again in three minutes
08:33:23 *** truebrain has joined #openttd
08:33:23 <truebrain> poor bridge, did it die again? I feel sorry for it ...
08:36:51 <truebrain> yeah, seems that way
08:37:07 <truebrain> it had a huge jump in memory usage in the night of the 29th
08:37:13 <truebrain> I know the Discord connection dropped
08:37:38 <truebrain> so if I would guess, it seems like the discord library is leaking some memory .. either by me not freeing everything properly, or a bug in the library
08:37:42 <truebrain> leaking memory in Python is hard
08:39:45 <truebrain> yeah, every bump in memory I can correlate back to a reconnection to the Discord backend
08:39:49 <truebrain> so something is fishy there 😛
08:40:01 <truebrain> not something for now 🙂
09:15:00 *** tony_pixel has joined #openttd
09:15:00 <tony_pixel> truebrain: Unless you're opening files and not closing them
09:15:19 <truebrain> even then it is hard, as you need to keep the variable alive too!
09:15:36 <truebrain> as soon as the variable leaves scope, it closes the file (well, when the GC comes around, but you get what I mean)
09:15:47 <truebrain> so I am rather puzzled how this Discord library actually leaks ..
09:15:55 <truebrain> it means it keeps a reference alive ..
09:16:56 <peter1138> Won't be long before another C++ rewrite...
09:20:50 <truebrain> truebrain: (well, unless you define `closefd=False` ofc, but if you shoot yourself in the foot .... it tends to hurt :P)
09:21:18 <pickpacket> truebrain: I'm very puzzled to hear of memory leaks in python at all. Have never heard of that happening before
09:21:59 <truebrain> You misunderstand. The Python application leaks. Not Python itself. And of course any application can leak if you do stupid shit 🙂
09:23:04 <pickpacket> weird though because it must mean that the application creates objects that it keeps references to so that the GC doesn't collect them
09:23:31 <truebrain> and welcome to 7 minutes ago 🙂
09:25:04 * pickpacket is having last-day-before-vacation brain issues
09:52:24 <truebrain> `<botocore.awsrequest.AWSRequest object at 0x7f7bb89e85d0>` .. tnx AWS CLI .. I see you have the best way to report errors .. this is so appreciated ...
10:01:30 <LordAro> or possibly just raise obj
10:59:58 <peter1138> > ERROR: operator does not exist: boolean | boolean
11:00:06 <peter1138> Oh come on PostgreSQL...
11:16:14 <pickpacket> peter1138: you didn't know what you do for a living the other day. I'm guessing that whatever it is involves PostgreSQL today :D
11:20:56 <peter1138> Jack of all trades, master of none.
11:23:41 <pickpacket> manager asked me the other day which of our tasks I feel the most comfortable doing. They're so diverse right now... I don't feel like I *know* how to solve any of them, but I could take on any of them and figure it out
11:25:44 <peter1138> Aright, how do I rewrite EOMONTH()...
11:33:03 <Rubidium_> never write date mangling functions yourself
11:38:06 <truebrain> someone had a nightmare reading that sentence 😄
11:39:57 <LordAro> we once had a bug that would only occur in the week where US DST was applied but UK DST was not
11:40:04 <LordAro> or possibly vice versa
11:41:31 <LordAro> iirc it was eventually worked out that msys was setting a unix-like TZ env var value that native Windows programs didn't understand
11:45:43 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
11:47:03 <truebrain> timezones ... everyone hates them 😛
11:59:45 <LordAro> truebrain: is that you asking for extra permissions?
12:00:03 <truebrain> no clue why it emailed everyone
12:00:05 <truebrain> was a bit pointless
12:00:29 <truebrain> this ^^ will give context to the mail you got 🙂
12:02:50 <LordAro> does this mean that nightlies will stop "timing out" ?
12:03:12 <truebrain> and no, this just changes the use of a PAT to the use of a GitHub App with a private/public key 🙂
12:03:19 <LordAro> doesn't glx have to keep pressing refresh on something?
12:03:36 <truebrain> owh, the workflows repository suspends after 90 days of inactivity
12:03:46 <truebrain> something on my list to address too; but that is not this PR 🙂
12:05:56 <truebrain> hmm .. I tested 1 of the 4 flows in the PR .. but there is no test like live testing!@
12:11:46 <truebrain> now to make PRs for the other repositories .. will be fun 😛
12:13:58 <truebrain> very hard to test .. not sure how to test it actually .. hmm
12:18:22 <_glx_> this merge just reset the timer I think 🙂
12:21:15 <_glx_> TrueBrainviaGitHub: draft exist for this reason 😉
12:21:41 <truebrain> it was more a mental note than anything else
12:21:45 <truebrain> you could already review it, if you like 🙂
12:21:50 <truebrain> so in that sence, it is not a draft 😛
12:24:56 <truebrain> Are those branches still useful?
12:38:36 <truebrain> owh, some more stuff to do there ..
12:41:15 <truebrain> I guess this is the same for OpenMSX and OpenSFX .. I will first make OpenGFX work, move it to the `actions` repository after, making it a reusing workflow
12:42:31 <truebrain> owh, also lacking concurrency statements ..
12:43:44 <truebrain> what else did we miss when updating the actions over the last few years ...
12:44:54 <truebrain> master -> main rename
12:45:06 <truebrain> but that is something for a bit later
12:47:55 <_glx_> wow it was very outdated
12:48:08 <truebrain> I think we both surpressed it existed 😄
12:49:01 <pickpacket> I've been thinking that it would be nice to see in the town listing whether or not a one has built a statue in a town or not. What do you guys think?
12:54:19 <truebrain> I didn't know about `shell: bash` making `-e` explicit btw; might be nice to do that everywhere
12:55:40 <truebrain> wow, this workflow is kinda weird .. but owh well, when moving to reusing workflow that can be fixed up 🙂 First, getting the CDN to work 😛
12:56:13 <LordAro> truebrain: i'd rather be explicit about it, rather than "bash" implicitly setting it
12:56:30 <_glx_> it's not bash, it's github action
12:56:43 <truebrain> and it would be unwise to be "explicit" about it, as we were doing it wrong 🙂
12:56:51 <truebrain> (it was missing `-ofailpipe` for example)
12:56:58 <LordAro> "shell: bash" suggests bash :p
12:56:59 <truebrain> letting GitHub take care of those nuances is much better 😄
12:57:28 <truebrain> they promise fail-fast when using an explicit shell
12:58:08 <truebrain> (guess the only reason it is not enabled by default as it would break many workflows 😛 )
12:58:44 <_glx_> we explicitely disable fail-fast with matrix
12:58:45 <truebrain> ugh, 6 minutes between runs for testing ... "joy"
12:59:40 <truebrain> off to a bad start .. 3 things failed in the 3rd step alone 😄
13:08:55 <truebrain> second attempt was a lot better .. a silly typo ...
13:12:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
13:16:18 <truebrain> hmm .. `mimetype` is not installed on GitHub runners
13:16:48 <LordAro> mimetype? never heard of that
13:17:18 <truebrain> it does exactly what you think it does
13:18:10 <truebrain> when uploading things to an S3, you need to tell the content-type of the object
13:18:13 <LordAro> i'd probably usually use `file` or one of the xdg-things
13:18:16 <truebrain> so when downloading, the browser handles that nicely
13:18:24 <truebrain> `file` has .. similar-ish support, but it is so bad
13:18:28 <truebrain> it doesn't even know markdown files
13:18:35 <LordAro> or just look at the extension :p
13:19:01 <truebrain> I kinda don't want to program in all extensions we have on the CDN, and the ones we will get 😛
13:19:20 <truebrain> in case you missed the memo, we are trying to make things easier for ourselves 😄
13:19:44 <truebrain> seems `file` doesn't even use `/etc/mime.types` .. weird
13:20:27 <_glx_> LordAro: yeah workflows can be "nasty"
13:20:51 <truebrain> hmm .. what package supplies mimetype .. how to figure that out ..
13:22:13 <truebrain> did not expect a binary to be in a lib package
13:23:17 <LordAro> perl packages are great
13:24:20 <truebrain> let's agree to disagree on that statement 🙂
13:24:39 <truebrain> anyway, tnx for that URL 🙂
13:24:47 <LordAro> they're very well organised
13:25:21 <LordAro> foo::bar::baz perl library is at libfoo-bar-baz-perl
13:26:35 <truebrain> it sounds like you found the one positive thing about Perl? 😛
13:29:34 <LordAro> i find myself liking perl a lot these days
13:29:45 <LordAro> mostly stockholm syndrome i think
13:32:18 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
13:41:00 <truebrain> Okay, that seems to work .. now moving it to reusing workflows, and apply it on 3 other repos
14:53:46 *** Kitrana has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
15:13:13 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
15:31:36 <peter1138> Okay, PostgreSQL is annoying me now.
15:31:45 <peter1138> It is rather stricter than MS SQL.
15:32:18 <peter1138> I recreated the schema but need to make a few tweaks, but doesn't allow changed when indexes, foreign keys or views reference them.
15:32:31 <peter1138> Which is good and proper, but I'm not used to it :p
16:01:41 <peter1138> After a full day trying to get this to work...
16:02:02 <peter1138> I now need to make updatable views work, or give up.
16:04:13 <peter1138> Default font if you change your language to German?
16:05:22 <Rubidium_> does that make the dropdown look weird?
16:06:03 <peter1138> In what way (they're not actually drop downs after all...)
16:07:54 <peter1138> Not badly aligned, just not aligned at all.
16:08:15 <peter1138> Our GUI system doesn't support that natively, so the window would have to manually set up the sizes. And I've not bothered.
16:14:32 <pickpacket> LordAro: I’ve worked with well-written object oriented perl code. It was nice
16:24:15 <peter1138> Strange fantasy you have there.
17:22:00 <pickpacket> pickpacket: imagine all the coders, writing lines of peeeerl... ohoho-o-o. You may say, I'm a dreameee-eer, but I'm not the only one
17:22:11 <pickpacket> was meant to be peter1138
17:29:10 <pickpacket> Does anyone know what the loading speed of the ordinary goods wagon is? "Default vehicles use 5 for trains and road vehicles, 10 for ships and 20 for aircraft." Does that mean the default goods wagon has a loading speed of 5?
17:33:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
17:33:47 <andythenorth> how do we do GS <-> grf comms?
17:34:02 <andythenorth> the side channels are fragile and weird
17:36:35 *** locosage has joined #openttd
17:36:35 <locosage> grf can register named (with label) callbacks and parameters
17:36:39 <locosage> gs calls and reads them
17:38:04 <locosage> well, I guess call would have to go through network commands though
17:39:17 <andythenorth> needs to be a thing
17:39:41 <andythenorth> test case is changing industry prod_level
17:45:29 <andythenorth> so we'd register a 'change prod_level' callback?
17:45:43 <andythenorth> and pass the new value as the parameter?
17:46:10 <andythenorth> how does the grf know which industry property to change though?
17:54:12 <andythenorth> not seeing how we register callbacks for arbitrary changes to industries
17:57:24 *** _aD has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
17:59:06 <_glx_> grf associates a callback to an industry (via action3) and openttd runs that
18:00:14 <andythenorth> but industrty callbacks can't change arbitrary industry props
18:00:27 <andythenorth> (unlike cb 36 for trains)
18:00:45 <andythenorth> I guess callback can put things in perm registers
18:00:51 <andythenorth> then the grf can do stuff later
18:01:27 <andythenorth> and it can return the predicted value
18:01:37 <andythenorth> won't work if random is needed
18:17:43 <peter1138> pickpacket, yes, by "train" that means all rail-based stuff, not train just engines.
18:31:51 *** kuhnovic has joined #openttd
18:31:52 <kuhnovic> Is there any way to look up a PR or any other additional information from a commit from the SVN era? I want to know what the motivation was behind 5ea472650c41a696a0952f726e8143555ef4cc4c.
18:35:39 <peter1138> SVN doesn't have PRs, so not really.
18:38:42 *** Wormnest has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
18:40:44 <Rubidium_> done by reading the appropriate IRC logs from 2010... where the committer mentions some issue also happens for rails referring to FS#3882
18:40:45 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:42:04 <Rubidium_> interestingly looking at the parent commit of the one you mentioned would have potentially given you the same information without archaic log files
18:43:02 <Rubidium_> and by happy that upon the migration to github someone thought it be a good idea to put all the flyspray issues into github with its history *and* the same issue numbers
18:47:00 <kuhnovic> Good that this is still traceable, thanks!
18:47:32 <andythenorth> embedded WASM for industries?
18:47:54 <andythenorth> so the grf can do arbitrary things when the GS asks?
18:49:44 <peter1138> Did someone replace andythenorth with ChatGPT again?
18:51:48 <andythenorth> I could ask GPT how to do this
18:51:54 <andythenorth> it seems unaware of GS though
18:52:05 <andythenorth> it can hallucinate fake GS, but it bears no relation to reality
18:57:55 <andythenorth> what if we just added get/set for all properties of entities?
18:58:05 <andythenorth> e.g. industries, stations, towns, objects etc
18:58:25 <andythenorth> and the ability to define arbitrary props
18:58:51 <peter1138> Well, each set would need to be a command that can go over the network.
18:59:11 <peter1138> Unless you want gamesscripts to run in lock-step on clients.
19:01:30 <_glx_> Async doesn't work for get
19:01:58 <_glx_> And would still need commands
19:02:49 <peter1138> Get can read whatever state is there, although it could potentially be invalid if the GS has already spammed a load of Sets...
19:05:20 <andythenorth> is this throw out GS again?
19:08:13 *** Kitrana1 has joined #openttd
19:09:05 <andythenorth> GSIndustry.GetProdLevel()
19:09:12 <andythenorth> GSIndustry.SetProdLevel()
19:09:14 <andythenorth> maybe I can PR it
19:14:51 <_jgr_> Get doesn't require commands at all
19:15:04 <_jgr_> It doesn't need to be executed on all network clients
19:16:48 <andythenorth> I wonder how this ends
19:17:02 <andythenorth> - get/set for everything in the game?
19:17:12 <andythenorth> - something else?
19:20:07 <_jgr_> For your use case where you control both the GRF and GS, the various communication mechanisms which have been brought up each time would work
19:20:31 <_jgr_> For other GRFs, they probably don't want bug reports from some 3rd party GS randomly setting things
19:28:01 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
19:51:10 *** Flygon has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
19:56:29 <andythenorth> wonder if I can side channel via the town
19:58:06 <andythenorth> nah, grf only has a few town vars
20:17:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
20:19:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
20:24:32 <andythenorth> what if we gave industries a comms port?
20:24:45 <andythenorth> a byte in which GS could write arbitrary values
20:25:59 <andythenorth> or if we added some more flags
20:26:21 <andythenorth> currently there are 3 bits of information
20:26:59 <andythenorth> 5 more flags would give quite a lot
20:27:15 <andythenorth> then I could read them, and use mask and shift to put them in a register
20:27:19 <andythenorth> that would be a byte?
20:27:59 <andythenorth> each of the existing flags could have a flag for inverse
20:28:17 <andythenorth> e.g. `INDCTL_NO_PRODUCTION_INCREASE` could have `INDCTL_PRODUCTION_INCREASE`
20:28:40 <andythenorth> that would be 6 bits straight away
20:29:18 <andythenorth> then we could have a dedicated callback from GS against the grf, where the grf can set those flags
20:29:24 <andythenorth> currently grf can only read them
20:29:50 <andythenorth> could return them all bit-stuffed into the return value
20:35:17 <andythenorth> `INDCTL_STOP_ANIMATION` and `INDCTL_START_ANIMATION` would give 8 bits
20:36:24 <andythenorth> also the GS should be able to stop and start production
20:40:11 <andythenorth> oh but those might need to be per cargo
20:40:15 <andythenorth> so that's a lot more bits
20:51:50 *** gelignite has joined #openttd
21:09:54 *** nielsm has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:13:42 <peter1138> Playing with xfractint brings back memories... weird interfaces, default 256-colour VGA palette...
21:13:59 <peter1138> Compiles fine under WSLg...
21:16:02 *** ahyangyi has joined #openttd
21:17:47 <ahyangyi> I do feel that it comes with so many formulas that they covered everything I can think of
21:18:04 <ahyangyi> Well, occasionally I can come up with something new, and they suck
21:18:49 <peter1138> Oops... Segmentation fault
21:25:37 *** seriphyn has joined #openttd
21:25:37 <seriphyn> Is it possible to remove the +2 years introduction date?
21:29:55 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:33:42 *** keikoz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
21:43:39 *** talltyler has joined #openttd
21:43:39 <talltyler> Anybody watching the children panic on the Derail Valley Discord about the simulator release being slightly delayed? It makes glad our releases are “whenever someone gets inspired to write a changelog and push buttons” instead of making concrete promises. 😬
21:58:01 <seriphyn> is derail valley a VR sim? or is it a tycoon?
22:09:55 <_glx_> it's not +2 it's random
22:10:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:10:44 <_glx_> talltyler: rule number one, don't specify dates 🙂
22:11:29 <seriphyn> _glx_: oh i know it's 0-2 but it always feels like it'll do 2 lol
22:12:44 <talltyler> And even worse, don't specify the time on that date!
22:13:37 <talltyler> Derail Valley is a VR sim with an economy aspect, similar to Euro/American Truck Simulator. Not a full tycoon.
22:27:22 *** geli has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
22:35:12 <talltyler> Psst, #10755 needs somebody to hit merge (or disagree) 🙂
22:48:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:51:38 *** _aD has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
23:53:14 *** m1cr0m4n has quit IRC (Quit: G'luck)
23:57:14 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
