IRC Logs | #openttd | 2023-03-12

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05:49:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rodonmanes opened issue #10564: [Crash]: Selling a train https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10564

08:58:59 <dP> don't you love the smell of crashed openttd in the morning...

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09:07:32 <Kuhnovic> Then again, who in their right mind would ever sell a train at this hour!

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10:33:08 <andythenorth> eh a new way to break it 😄

10:34:02 <andythenorth> ok so the language only supports a very limited number of local vars?

10:35:26 <andythenorth> wow no, it really is a thing

10:36:22 <andythenorth> I have a feeling it might be limited to 255 locals

10:41:51 <andythenorth> every day a new way for me to look stupid in Squirrel 🙂

10:45:22 <andythenorth> the limit might be either 252 or 255

10:45:30 <andythenorth> I didn't write an isolated test 😛

10:55:28 <JGR> Squirrel has lists and tables, you don't need to make every little thing it's own local variable

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11:11:07 <michi_cc[d]> I think every code design guide everywhere will tell you that 255 locals just means your function is too big ands needs to be split.

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12:04:01 <andythenorth> I was trying to assign table slot values from a python loop

12:04:35 <andythenorth> `local foo = ${some_value}; my_table[foo] = foo;` was a failed attempt

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12:04:53 <andythenorth> I've written a python generator for squirrel tables as strings instead

12:04:58 <andythenorth> shame our squirrel can't json, but eh

12:05:25 <andythenorth> the loop had hundreds of slot assignments, now it has....many fewer 😛

12:07:19 <JGR> If you're writing your squirrel code using python, why do you need all this strange indirection at all?

12:07:40 <JGR> Just have your python output the right code first time?

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12:10:03 <andythenorth> unfortunately, due to [skill issues], achieving that is mistakes and blind alleys 🙂

12:10:46 <andythenorth> I am not filing the lack of json under "skill issues" 😛 but not much we can do about that

12:11:31 <andythenorth> I have written my own serialiser to squirrel tables, which will keep finding new issues with type detection and formatting 😛

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12:34:17 <andythenorth> now can I be arsed to write more debug display output?

12:34:32 <andythenorth> I probably can, and it's probably a learning exercise with no real purpose 😛

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12:36:35 <JGR> Extending the script debug window would probably be useful for script developers in general

12:37:41 <JGR> The things that you're trying to do via storybooks is likely a good signal of what functionality is missing

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12:38:23 <nielsm> something to dump objects for semi-interactive exploration, similar to how javascript debug consoles in browsers work, would probably be useful

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12:38:45 <andythenorth> JGR: agree, I am quite a big fan of story book for prototyping 🙂

12:39:03 <andythenorth> abusing story book is somewhat akin to browser dev tools

12:39:06 <andythenorth> just less complete 😛

12:39:36 <andythenorth> TBH if there was a fast way to repr() a squirrel object

12:39:41 <andythenorth> or the equivalent of dir

12:40:44 <andythenorth> simple logging often isn't useful because it just produces strings like `Instance(0x1231)` or similar, from the object refs

12:40:54 <andythenorth> walking them when logging is quite involved

12:41:17 <andythenorth> given that the whole environemt appears to be one namespace, made of table slots

12:41:32 <andythenorth> we could just have a UI for traversing the global table

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12:41:42 <andythenorth> these things are usually dog slow 😛

12:42:12 <JGR> That's not such a big problem for debugging

12:42:38 <glx[d]> Traversing a table is not hard, we do it for saving

12:43:32 <andythenorth> glx[d]: no I hadn't tried print() 🙂 gets me a different output

12:43:49 <andythenorth> that's printing a slot with an object in it

12:43:58 <andythenorth> I wasn't expecting it to magically recurse 🙂

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12:44:24 <andythenorth> also logging isn't the solution for inspecting state anyway 🙂

12:44:35 <andythenorth> we have the + tree view from settings, groups etc

12:44:52 <andythenorth> maybe we can just display the tree with that

12:45:29 <andythenorth> is what I'm doing in storybook

12:45:48 <andythenorth> I was about to write a recursive version, so I can expand when the value is a table / object

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12:46:22 <glx[d]> Recursive reading of table is already existing for the save function

12:46:50 <andythenorth> so we'd maybe just add a view here?

12:47:08 <JGR> The code suggests that you can define your class method for conversion to strings

12:47:25 <andythenorth> that sounds plausible

12:47:38 <andythenorth> Squirrel seems quite well thought through, just rather unpolished

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12:48:38 <andythenorth> I keep hoping to find the equivalent of python dir() which is one of the ways I can learn interfaces 😛

12:50:34 <glx[d]> As usual documentation is sparse

12:51:25 <andythenorth> do we already use that for the breakpoint setting?

12:51:32 * andythenorth doesn't understand debugging much

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12:52:40 <glx[d]> No breakpoint is very basic, just filtering log output

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12:54:41 <andythenorth> well a read-only inspection of state would be nice to have 🙂

12:54:52 <andythenorth> we could add a 'danger' version later, where state can be changed 😛

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12:56:50 <nielsm> possibly add a new pause condition to the game, for "script is being singlestepped" pause

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12:58:40 <JGR> You can define a "_tostring" method on a class, this gets called by print/GSLog instead of the default "instance: ..."

12:59:16 <andythenorth> I need to remember that

12:59:33 <andythenorth> I have been trying .tostring() built in method, but results can be mixed

12:59:59 <glx[d]> Tostring() calls _tostring()

13:00:12 <nielsm> I think the debugging interface in squirrel is already being used for the script step limiting per game tick

13:00:17 <glx[d]> Else it just displays instance:addr

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13:03:00 <andythenorth> oh _tostring() is going to be super helpful for my classes

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13:06:19 <andythenorth> the null ones are expected

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13:14:44 <andythenorth> wonder how I force a linebreak

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13:17:08 <andythenorth> ok, not going down a string formatting rabbit hole today 😄

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13:19:59 <glx[d]> Hmm GSText should support color commands

13:20:49 <glx[d]> Ha but it's a raw string here

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13:25:35 <andythenorth> it's not a today problem 🙂

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13:59:45 <petern> THIS WEEK 199.5 / 200 km

14:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> close, but no cigar.

14:00:36 <andythenorth> petern: when does the week cut off?

14:08:01 <petern> I'll guess at midnight tonight.

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14:12:41 <glx[d]> 500m should not be too hard

14:21:50 <TrueBrain> I did something silly: https://games.truebrain.nl/GameThree.html. Next step, rebuilding OpenTTD? 😛

14:21:50 <TrueBrain> This just to offset the endless GS talk in this channel .. so boring 😛

14:22:26 <glx[d]> some points about GS are valid though

14:22:49 <TrueBrain> who said / suggested they weren't?

14:23:43 <glx[d]> hardcoded WASD, not nice for my ZQSD layout

14:23:59 <TrueBrain> haha, lol, I keep forgetting those people exist 😄 Sorry 😛

14:24:05 <glx[d]> (windows+space works of course)

14:25:41 <glx[d]> lol alt key has a weird effect

14:26:48 <TrueBrain> I broke my own game by moving while the exit animation was playing

14:26:56 <TrueBrain> that clearly shouldn't happen .. owh well, silly game being silly 😄

14:27:34 <andythenorth> but the two contribs talking about it most are also the worst programmers

14:27:51 <TrueBrain> pff, speak for yourself

14:28:07 <TrueBrain> 😄 Which is why it was funny 😛

14:28:13 <andythenorth> pls send more lolz

14:28:22 <TrueBrain> it wasn't well received

14:28:39 <TrueBrain> I made you a game? 😄

14:28:56 <andythenorth> guess I need a new browser?

14:29:00 <andythenorth> unless that's the game 😛

14:29:11 <andythenorth> is it a 'find a new browser' game?

14:29:35 <andythenorth> stopped clock, is correct twice a day

14:32:38 <andythenorth> how do I hit stuff?

14:33:30 <andythenorth> you have been drawing?

14:33:32 <TrueBrain> you can't win, that is for sure 🙂

14:33:52 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: haha, fuck no. That would be the hidden talent of the centry 😛

14:34:07 <JGR> It took me quite a while working out that you needed to use the 'e' key to open doors

14:34:07 <TrueBrain> Some people are just too kind

14:34:27 <TrueBrain> JGR: yeah ... I should make a popup telling you to press E .. got lazy 😛

14:35:14 <andythenorth> how about fall damage? 😛

14:35:29 <TrueBrain> andy can't handle a peaceful game, lol

14:35:58 <andythenorth> character is carrying a stone hammer 😛

14:36:12 <andythenorth> ok this is my new goto

14:36:22 <andythenorth> it's approximately as rewarding as 2048

14:36:31 <andythenorth> which is what I play when I want to reset my brain for 10 mins

14:36:43 <andythenorth> I really enjoy that it just circles around

14:36:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #10543: Feature: Region-based pathfinder for ships https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10543

14:38:00 <andythenorth> is gravity a local var?

14:38:05 <andythenorth> I miss making games 😛

14:38:21 <TrueBrain> I am surprised how easy it really is, if you set your mind to it .. I mean, this was 2 days of work

14:38:56 <andythenorth> you're working on the procedural level generator I assume?

14:39:15 <TrueBrain> nah; just wanted to test most of the important aspects ..

14:39:26 <TrueBrain> from time to time I have been trying Unity, but I never got anything useful out of it

14:39:36 <TrueBrain> but with Godot, it seems I can actually understand how to do things

14:40:08 <andythenorth> oh it has an editor? 😮

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14:41:07 <TrueBrain> I just really have to learn how to draw .. which will be interesting 😛

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14:41:33 <glx[d]> so you were waiting for Godot

14:41:59 <andythenorth> skimming the intro, it looks like Flash / Director

14:42:52 <andythenorth> seems like it can have scenes in scenes

14:43:05 <andythenorth> presumably each scene runs a main loop

14:44:51 <andythenorth> oh scripts on nodes?

14:45:23 <andythenorth> yeah this is basically flash, without the vector drawing tools 🙂

14:45:41 <andythenorth> and then the bit where Adobe wanted the entire web rebuilt in Flash 😛

14:45:51 <andythenorth> does it have the same security holes?

14:47:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #10543: Feature: Region-based pathfinder for ships https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10543

15:45:05 <dP> glx[d]: still better than my dvorak 😜

15:51:00 <andythenorth> are still in GS purdah?

15:56:15 <discord_user_f4a0790> dP: dvorak?

15:56:40 <discord_user_f4a0790> i guess that's the russian version of qwerty/љњертз

15:57:36 <dP> discord_user_f4a0790: no, russian layout is its own thing, dvorak is a qwerty replacement

16:00:39 <dP> I just don't fancy layout designed for archaic typewriters 😜

16:04:17 <dP> it's actually amazing how despite all the progress keyboards are still designed with limitations that aren't relevant for almost a century

16:06:12 <LordAro> dP: as opposed to dvorak, the design of which is based on very flawed experiments? :p

16:08:04 <dP> still better than designing for quirks of typewriter mechanics :p

16:08:29 <dP> also, I tried workman layout as some point too, didn't like it

16:09:25 <discord_user_f4a0790> dvorak would be interesting to try

16:10:41 <discord_user_f4a0790> i have a custom layout kinda

16:11:52 <discord_user_f4a0790> it is the danish qwerty layout but with some adjustments that allow me to write letters like š, č, ž, ć, đ, ł, õ, etc

16:11:55 <Brickblock1> I have added a few things to my layout one of them being this ඞ

16:12:31 <dP> I have a programmable keyboard with a separate layout for openttd xD

16:12:50 <discord_user_f4a0790> i could easily switch layouts

16:13:02 <discord_user_f4a0790> thats how i can do љњертз

16:13:16 <discord_user_f4a0790> its just start key plus space

16:13:52 <dP> it's not that easy with custom layouts when you need to use other os or pc

16:14:07 <dP> at least with programmable keyboard I can just plug it in

16:14:27 <dP> and it does all the job of faking right keypresses on its own

16:14:33 <discord_user_f4a0790> i remember in college i had to actually look at the keyboard to find some things like the @ key because the uk layout is different

16:14:59 <petern> Hmm, shall I crack open a whisky.

16:15:45 <discord_user_f4a0790> @ for me is alt gr + 2, on the uk keyboard it is shift plus the second key right L

16:15:55 <discord_user_f4a0790> shift plus that key makes Ø for me

16:16:07 <discord_user_f4a0790> i think my keyboard may be programable

16:16:16 <discord_user_f4a0790> i have a corsair k68

16:16:43 <petern> LordAro, hills are so hard :/

16:16:45 <discord_user_f4a0790> its great, deals with my heavy key presses when i type pretty well

16:16:58 <petern> And not even proper hills like you have.

16:18:14 <LordAro> sandbagging myself with heavy mudguards doesn't help

16:18:21 <LordAro> also probably a pound of mud

16:20:03 <LordAro> though i don't think i've done any of the proper hills (20%+) in over 6 months

16:51:20 <andythenorth> seems MinimalGS implies monthly processing runs at end of month, which I think often coincides with auto save

16:52:27 * andythenorth wonders how often towns are visited in default game, for e.g. growth rate etc

16:53:52 <andythenorth> /me guesses at `UpdateTownGrowthRate`

16:56:05 <andythenorth> ok so this runs on `OnNewMonth`

16:59:40 <andythenorth> not sure if it matters that a save happens midway through processing monthly stuff

17:00:01 <andythenorth> seems like a higher chance of weird state, but maybe not

17:23:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ShlokJswl commented on issue #8932: Maximum initial loan amount does not match Game Settings https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8932

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17:24:02 <andythenorth> has anyone ever thought of dividing water into regions of connected tiles?

17:25:50 <dP> didn't we discuss that at some point

17:25:58 <dP> some kind of dsu would do the trick

17:26:06 <dP> may also help ship pathfinding

17:26:07 <andythenorth> I am considering doing it GS

17:26:15 <andythenorth> but it will bloat RAM and be dog slow

17:26:16 <dP> to instantly tell there is no path

17:29:59 <dP> hardest part is the update after terra

17:30:15 <andythenorth> could just be slow?

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17:30:45 <andythenorth> doesn't need to update for every player raise / lower

17:35:07 <andythenorth> oh seems GS can handle events from arbitrary widget clicks 😮

17:35:16 <andythenorth> this is abusable...

17:35:21 <andythenorth> maybe in a good way

17:35:24 <petern> Probably not in mulitplayer.

17:35:34 <petern> Random clicks aren't sent to the server.

17:35:36 <andythenorth> nor if we update the UI in a version

17:35:44 <andythenorth> widget might change

17:37:08 <petern> Well, we did get "the menu has changed" as a bug report...

17:40:31 <glx[d]> most of window stuff in GS is intended to be used for tutorials

17:47:12 <petern> SLEG_CONDSTRUCTLIST("speclist", SlRoadStopTileData, SLV_NEWGRF_ROAD_STOPS, SL_MAX_VERSION),

17:47:19 <petern> Why is that named "speclist" 😮

17:48:56 <glx[d]> copied from another feature probably

17:50:36 <petern> Presumably it doesn't conflict with the other one. They're both in stations, but the other one is under another struct.

18:11:05 <andythenorth> wonder if story page IDs get shuffled when I remove one

18:11:16 <andythenorth> or what happens if there's a gap, and I add one

18:12:21 <andythenorth> guess I'll find out the amusing way 😄

18:12:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened issue #10565: [Bug]: Train can't find the route to local depot https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10565

18:15:00 <andythenorth> ok now I've written some sort of debugging tools and crap

18:15:15 <andythenorth> I can maybe try some actual gameplay in GS 😛

18:15:31 <andythenorth> what if I get bored and drop the idea in 10 mins? 😛

18:17:34 <andythenorth> seems opening story book whilst adding / removing pages might not always work

18:34:18 <glx[d]> hey at least the call stack is easy to read 🙂

18:35:09 <glx[d]> anyway you can report the issue

18:35:16 <glx[d]> GS should not crash openttd

18:38:19 <andythenorth> it is Story Book page widget causing it?

18:38:25 <andythenorth> I need to title the issue

18:45:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened issue #10566: [Bug]: GS story book crash - possibly due to page selection while GS adding/removing pages https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10566

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19:11:08 <petern> Hmm, if I sync the S&H rate to MIDI clock, can I get a suitable rhythm going on this bizarre noise generator..

19:11:18 <petern> Maybe with a gate as well.

19:18:12 <andythenorth> can you connect OpenTTD train smoke generation to midi?

19:29:36 <andythenorth> to sum all cargo delivered to a town, I'd have to walk all companies?

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19:44:40 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: they have a name for this .. let me think .. owh yeah: SOUND EFFECTS

19:48:56 <andythenorth> hmm MIDI -> admin port -> GS -> train control petern

19:49:11 <andythenorth> Blue Monday, but in trains

19:49:23 <TrueBrain> see, order of words is important! 😛

19:49:53 <andythenorth> midi is just 0s and 1s?

19:50:54 <andythenorth> oh Midi Machine Control, I'd forgotten about that

19:52:38 <andythenorth> hmm seems midi -> model train control has been done

19:53:28 <andythenorth> I have a mouse in my house

19:53:41 <andythenorth> I caught it, but then it escaped

19:53:49 <TrueBrain> just one? I doubt that 😛

19:54:08 <andythenorth> well I only caught one

19:54:46 <andythenorth> I can't find a web based 808 emulator 😛

19:54:59 <andythenorth> not even sure if an 808 has midi out

20:15:02 <petern> The remake (TR-08) does.

20:15:21 <petern> But there is trigger outs on the 808

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20:17:16 <TonyPixel> Is there a simple way to open a open file dialogue? Does WinAPI CommonItemDialog work?

20:18:02 <TonyPixel> This is not much on topic, but I have no purpose to turn it into a discussion either

20:19:14 <TrueBrain> not really C++ related, more Windows related 😛 Which means there are only few of us here who might know 😄

20:19:55 <TonyPixel> I'm planning to transition Sprite Editor project from Unity to SDL

20:19:59 <TrueBrain> (and since when did we ever care if things in here are on-topic 😛 :D)

20:20:29 <petern> Unity to SDL seems a step backwards?

20:21:06 <TonyPixel> Unity has an extremely bloated workspace

20:21:35 <TonyPixel> It outputs 32mb project for literally creating one mesh and 3 buttons of UI

20:21:55 <TonyPixel> I'm still not sure if I want to do that

20:23:23 <TonyPixel> Yet you know that every C# binding for Windows API is essentially a winapi function under the hood, so I wondered if anyone here had an experience on implementing that

20:23:45 <TonyPixel> I'm currently using WinForms implementation

20:24:08 <TonyPixel> Sure it works, yet I don't quite know how right it is to use WinForms in 2022

20:25:00 <michi_cc[d]> Not worse than using the Win32 API directly. I'd just stick with .NET, raw Win32 UI programming is annoying as heck.

20:27:00 <TonyPixel> I think I'll stick to Unity until (if even) I encounter a challenge not quite possible to beat in its environment

20:27:48 <andythenorth> hmm can Godot output files?

20:29:21 <andythenorth> it might have a general purpose file writer

20:30:13 <glx[d]> michi_cc[d]: yeah we define 2 Win32 windows in openttd, it's enough to dislike that 🙂

20:30:36 <glx[d]> (well it's one window and a dialog, but still)

20:42:57 <andythenorth> lol, writing python with ; line endings

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20:58:03 <andythenorth> ok I need to read the memo

20:58:14 <dP> is there some way to print std::function ?

20:58:16 <andythenorth> is GSList bad or not?

20:58:19 <dP> I just want to see if it changes

20:58:24 <andythenorth> and is Valuate() bad or not?

20:59:26 <glx[d]> valuate is good, but limited if you use custom valuator

21:00:04 <glx[d]> especially if custom valuator is complex

21:00:33 <andythenorth> I just want tables of {cargoID: cargo_label} and {cargo_label: cargoID}

21:00:42 <andythenorth> might just cache them at init

21:01:26 <glx[d]> cargoID: label is simple, cargo list then valuate with label

21:02:06 <TonyPixel> glx[d]: what's the dialog for?

21:04:38 <glx[d]> cargolist = GSCargoList();

21:04:38 <glx[d]> cargolist.Valuate(GSCargo.GetCargoLabel);

21:05:58 <glx[d]> for the other list you'll need a GSList() and fill it from iteration of cargolist

21:06:43 <glx[d]> `foreach idx, value in cargo list { list.AddItem(value, idx); }` or something like that

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21:17:19 <dP> how the quack does it manage to corrupt variable captured by copy when just passing lambda around

21:18:10 <dP> and it's impossible to debug this shit, can't print std::function and gdb shows junk

21:19:49 <andythenorth> cargo_list.Valuate(GSCargo.GetCargoLabel); should be fine

21:20:01 <andythenorth> returns a string though, is that valid?

21:20:07 <andythenorth> ach I just write a foreach loop TBH

21:20:10 <andythenorth> valuate is too magical

21:24:57 <FLHerne> er, https://github.com/btzy/nativefiledialog-extended seems like a nice lib to abstract that stuff, specifically mentions use with SDL

21:36:19 <glx[d]> my bad andythenorth, lists only works with integers

21:36:31 <andythenorth> it's ok, I need to limit to FIRS cargos anyway 🙂

21:36:39 <andythenorth> so I can't trivially use GSCargoList

21:36:49 <glx[d]> so another option is to get the list, the iterate it and create your tables

21:37:01 <andythenorth> yeah I'm writing my own table generator for this

21:37:18 <andythenorth> other grfs add cargos sometimes, that will confuse the results 🙂

21:38:51 <andythenorth> hmm how to check if an item is in an array, in squirrel 2

21:39:11 <andythenorth> if ("foo" in ["foo"]) seems to evaluate false

21:40:25 <andythenorth> ok back to old school array.find then

21:41:39 <andythenorth> lol no array.find in squirrel 2

21:47:21 <glx[d]> yeah arrays are not very usable

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22:01:01 <andythenorth> wrote a silly loop instead 🙂

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22:09:17 <andythenorth> Squirrel 3 port? 😛

22:09:22 <andythenorth> I think that was ruled out

22:09:31 <andythenorth> compatibility maybe?

22:09:57 <glx[d]> yeah vargc and vargv are removed in squirrel 3

22:10:09 <glx[d]> and at least one script uses them

22:10:43 <andythenorth> do we have a version compatibility system?

22:12:00 <andythenorth> savegames though 😛

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22:15:41 <glx[d]> ah vargv still exists, but vargc not

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22:19:37 <andythenorth> could we patch it back? 😛

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22:35:48 <dP> fantastic, apparently lambda can't assign the variable that was used to invoke it

22:35:55 <dP> is that a standard thing or gcc bug?

22:39:55 <andythenorth> we have made the channel grumpy

22:40:19 <andythenorth> rename it 'complaining about languages' ? 😛

22:43:13 <Xarick> I've been working on my AI, it's doing some trains

22:44:07 <Xarick> I have a big smile on my face, I was able to do it

22:44:27 <Xarick> still needs work, but at least it can have trains running

22:46:07 <Xarick> it's still extremely slow

22:46:22 <Xarick> need high number of opcodes

22:48:54 <andythenorth> multi-threading AIs 😛

22:49:09 <andythenorth> give them as much thinking time as they want, on another thread / core

22:49:37 <andythenorth> but give them turn based play for actual DoCommand stuff

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23:13:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] szczot3k opened issue #10567: [Bug]: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10567

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23:17:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] szczot3k opened issue #10568: [Bug]: Dedicated server: Loading a scenario, or a save with NewGRF https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10568

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