IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-02-22
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00:19:07 <dP> yeah, this makes more sense...
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11:10:14 <Samu> when was excessive cpu evaluator introduced?
11:15:26 <LordAro> i'm pretty sure it's been there as long as NoAI has
11:18:39 <Samu> so in 1.6.0 it was fine, and 1.7.0-RC1 it stopped being fine
11:18:54 <Samu> hmm i have a devious idea
11:19:39 <Samu> add to compat files from 0.7 to 1.6.0 the slow valuator version
11:31:04 <glx[d]> Does it trigger as often if you use default opcode limit ?
11:34:16 <Samu> i don't think opcode limit matters
11:34:49 <Samu> ÄŠt has its own limit, i believe
11:42:18 <glx[d]> Anyway each valuation counts for 5, then you need to add the function opcodes
11:44:07 <glx[d]> A list of 1000 elements is allowed 1000 opcodes per element, that doesn't seem that low
11:46:40 <Samu> ah, feels so good to be able to run them with 250k ops now, no slowdowns
11:46:52 <Samu> well, no perceived hiccups that is
11:55:05 <Samu> i have seen AIs evaulate rectangles
11:55:27 <Samu> that makes it kinda exponential
11:57:22 <Samu> OtviAI was notoriously a cpu hogger
11:57:34 <Samu> i don't wanna imagine how many Valuates it uses
11:58:20 <Samu> I'm testing an unorthodox list of AIs with the slow valuator in the compat files
11:58:34 <Samu> Grinchios had a weird crash
11:58:47 <Samu> i hope it's not related to this
12:06:59 <Samu> ah,i have disable aircraft turned on for ais :(
12:10:37 <Samu> i fear testing with 10k/medium speed will make these AIs sleep
13:16:10 <Samu> regression results were expected
13:16:34 <Samu> to change, due to minor delays
13:23:24 <Samu> EmotionAI... "This script took too long to initialile. Script is not started."
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14:08:03 <dP> I've always wondered if "humanizing" numeration is really worth the confusion
14:20:06 <Samu> I need a list of AIs that have cpu evaluator crash
14:23:10 <Xarick> 4 x 4096x4096, 250k ops, very fast
14:23:32 <Xarick> almost acceptable framerates
14:25:10 <Samu> nocab and nonocab eat ram
14:32:20 <ag> Get yourself a supercomputer then
15:13:23 <petern> For all your access to more than 640KB needs.
15:23:51 <LordAro> "we need to independently witness the build for the release"
15:24:35 <LordAro> "to achieve this we want to take screenshots of the log output as it happens"
15:28:20 <andythenorth> OBS cast of jenkins run? đ¤Ē
15:30:16 <LordAro> as far as i can tell, this requirement dates from a time where the release process was a lot more manual than it is now
15:30:34 <LordAro> though they're very good at "the requirement says this, so we must do it, no questions asked"
15:31:21 <LordAro> we've managed to shout them down to "we can just watch it when it happens"
15:41:43 <petern> Long gone are the days of individual developers just building and deploying from their own computers...
15:42:58 <petern> Which GRF file is that in
15:47:42 <ag> I wonder how do graphic files look like on irc
15:48:50 <petern> Ah, TRHCOM.GRF I guess, it's quite large.
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16:31:06 <Samu> OtviAI takes too long to initialize, that's maybe because it's using Valuate in constructors
16:31:26 <Samu> never had this error before
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17:23:13 <Samu> yeah OtviAI has a Valuate for TownPopulation in the constructor
17:23:36 <Samu> that means, too long to initialize under the slow valuate code
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17:46:33 <Samu> emotionAI is fixed! kinda
17:46:46 <Samu> now it initializes on large maps
17:46:57 <petern> I thought valuate was just one op
17:48:41 <Samu> it was another one with TownLists
17:49:51 <glx[d]> it is just one op, allowed to use at most 1M opcodes (real or virtual)
17:53:21 <Samu> couldn't find more cpu valuator crashes on the forums
17:55:11 <Samu> there's also GS's which, admitedly, I don't try them much
17:55:21 <Samu> something may break there too
17:56:28 <Samu> why can't initializing a script be suspended then resumed?
17:59:39 <glx[d]> because only the main loop is suspendable
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18:28:33 <Samu> why Trans builds airports, but no airplanes
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20:50:10 <glx[d]> asserts in release are maybe a good idea đ
20:53:21 <dwfreed> 2023-02-22 19:39:24 -!- Kuhnovic [~Kuhnovic@2a05:d014:870:d202:1:75a3:33d:572c] has quit [Quit: User went offline on Discord a while ago]
20:53:27 <dwfreed> TrueBrain: I could hug you
20:53:56 <dwfreed> this is one of the largest complaints we have with the matrix.org bridge
20:54:43 <dwfreed> 20,000 connections; 99% of them never used
21:00:01 <dwfreed> looks like you're currently at 33 connections; let me know before you hit 50 and I'll increase it
21:00:54 <TrueBrain> much appreciated; we will know because of the complaints đ
21:04:53 <Samu> trans ai got 56 files, dayum
21:13:56 <Samu> with 10k ops, some of the AIs become noticeable slower
21:14:53 <Samu> those that do computations on all towns...
21:15:05 <Samu> for finding the one where to start and such
21:15:19 <Samu> with 13k towns they just never start
21:15:58 <glx[d]> AIs don't scale very well with map size
21:16:53 <Samu> they also don't do well on small maps with many other ais together
21:18:13 <Samu> that's kind of expected, but still... some ais are just slow to plan and build, that when they finally start construction, the map is already 50% full
21:18:17 <andythenorth> I tested GS with 9999 towns
21:18:41 <andythenorth> the scaling with map size just isn't
21:20:06 <Samu> my AI suffers from a similar issue
21:21:11 <Samu> when the towns are already large, the ComputeTownRectangle function, which try to create a list of tiles that includes most of the town inside it, makes building airports extra slow
21:22:12 <Samu> then the airport size itself needs to get nearby number of buildings, noise level, and see if it fits in the TownRectangle
21:22:52 <Samu> there's a lot of checks with tiles and tile rectangles and areas, all of them combined just kills performance :(
21:23:31 <glx[d]> the algorithm seems suboptimal
21:23:34 <Samu> many AIs use Valuate on those rectangles, and that's why most of the crashes is due to that
21:24:17 <Samu> i rejected the idea of using Valuate on my AI, and now I pay the price... a super slow AI when dealing with airports
21:26:23 <Samu> and the way I coded the AI, was trying to compute mini-tasks, like finding station location on a town
21:26:36 <Samu> which is usually fast for buses and trucks
21:27:56 <Samu> meaning that it won't manage other stuff like adding more vehicles to other routes, replacing old vehicles, etc..
21:29:13 <Samu> need to revise the airport code from scratch again
21:29:49 <Samu> i also wanted to add train support
21:30:04 <Samu> but i kind of stopped with the idea
21:30:19 <Samu> my doublerail pathfinder is utterly slow :(
21:30:51 <Samu> I'm happy that i managed to make it work, but at the same time sad that it's incredibly slow
21:32:01 <Samu> I don't know how to iterate rectangles
21:33:12 <Samu> there's a large rectangle, the one that covers the entire town + some extra size to include station size
21:34:16 <Samu> then there's an iteration on every tile of that rectangle to check if i can place a train station of certain size, which also adds the extras like the rails exiting, the depot, etc...
21:34:20 <glx[d]> usually the first idea is a tile list, but that's often not the best choice
21:34:51 <Samu> so it's iterating a rectangle on a rectangle
21:35:32 <Samu> it's unoptimal, seems easy from a human perspective, but coding it is difficult
21:36:18 <Samu> need to pay attention to station coverage, to pay attention if the exit is free, in code, and that's where things get slowed down :(
21:36:56 <Samu> I don't know how to do it in an optimized way
21:38:37 <glx[d]> do you test single tile before checking the full station ?rectangle
21:42:08 <Samu> just to place an airport, i do 500 lines of code :(
21:42:19 <Samu> not counting with the extras
21:42:50 <Samu> let me find where i check the tiles
21:43:52 <Samu> line 712, the first rectangle
21:45:20 <Samu> first iteration on line 718
21:45:45 <Samu> second iteration on line 772
21:46:50 <Samu> another rectangle at line 798
21:47:20 <Samu> 801, iterating a rectangle on a rectangle
21:49:38 <Samu> ah line 778 is another rectangle in disguise, it finds if there's a station which can be used to join with the airport
21:52:13 <Samu> which is called from AirBuildManager
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22:31:34 <andythenorth> oh tile lists strike again?
22:32:04 <andythenorth> I didn't read the details, but superficially, it's similar to the case I had finding town tiles to place industries in?
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