IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2023-01-24
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04:12:04 <glx[d]> don't touch other languages
04:12:16 <glx[d]> missing strings won't cause failure
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08:29:05 <petern> Why do you need a setting?
08:29:31 <petern> You can create a railtype NewGRF that disallows level crossings.
08:38:11 <LordAro> i feel like i'm missing something
08:50:02 <petern> Ah did TrueBrain implement "new users don't bridged"?
08:51:57 <LordAro> it does feel like there's a missing person
08:54:40 <dwfreed> this is why I suggested a temporary delay instead
08:54:53 <andythenorth[d]> petern: turn teams on, your boss needs help with a report
08:55:08 <dwfreed> on IRC, since DorpsGek announced the merging of #10404, only well-known people have spoken
08:55:09 <petern> Jesus how is it nearly 9am already 😦
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09:12:01 <JustANortherner> petern: That's how time works, ever progressing, aha
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09:54:54 <andythenorth[d]> what are we doing today then?
09:55:05 <LordAro> the same thing we do every day
09:55:14 <andythenorth[d]> wonder if I can make Chuckie Egg, but on the tile grid
09:59:46 <JustANortherner> andythenorth[d]: Work, work and work
10:00:01 <JustANortherner> Maybe a 3 mile walk and a bit of a workout later...
10:01:38 <petern> Oh exercise, that used to be a thing.
10:03:04 <andythenorth[d]> which map direction is the gravitational field?
10:03:16 <andythenorth[d]> I have stopped exercising, it's not good
10:04:03 <petern> For me the gravitational field is forwards, out of the screen, towards me. Such mass.
10:15:25 <FLHerne> I woke up this morning and thought the fire had gone out, but it hadn't, it's just that cold
10:23:26 <JustANortherner> petern: New Years resolution to exercise more innit 😂
10:26:18 <LordAro> petern: what's your mileage goal for this year? :p
10:26:36 <petern> Not going to reach it.
10:26:56 <JustANortherner> What type of mileage?
10:29:05 <LordAro> petern & i are (overly) keen cyclists
10:43:30 <FLHerne> It was several thousand before, wasn't it?
10:44:13 <FLHerne> At one time I was doing a few thousand just in commuting and other travel, but probably down to tens at the moment :p
10:53:00 <JustANortherner> Best get catching up Peter
10:57:38 <petern> Worse, yours is in miles.
10:58:08 <petern> JustANortherner: It's -5°C out, I don't fancy it.
11:00:21 <LordAro> still, 50% of that was in the last 3 days
11:00:40 <JustANortherner> -5c? Not that awful, come on!
11:01:10 <JustANortherner> I went out for walks in -5c last week 😂
11:01:17 <JustANortherner> And cycling keeps you warmer!
11:02:14 <LordAro> -5 generally means ice
11:02:42 <JustANortherner> It was fun trying to walk around all the snow that hard turned into ice last week, yea
11:04:10 <FLHerne> I'm getting a bit stir-crazy here, boat has been frozen in for more than a week now
11:04:23 <JustANortherner> Where are you?
11:04:31 <FLHerne> the ice almost thawed yesterday but now it's back :-(
11:04:34 <LordAro> on a boat, presumably
11:04:50 <JustANortherner> Oh, Canal boat then?
11:05:07 <FLHerne> not Antarctica or something
11:05:30 <JustANortherner> If you're anywhere near the railway, I'll wave to you as I go past tomorrow morning 😂
11:06:12 <FLHerne> I can hear the crossing gates at Langley Green from here, can't see it though :p
11:06:26 <JustANortherner> Ah, wrong side of Oldbury
11:06:39 <FLHerne> did see a 68 + Mk3 set walking back from the chippy last night
11:06:39 <JustANortherner> I'd be on the mainline, rather than the Stourbridge line
11:07:01 <JustANortherner> Tbf, you should hear them most mornings too!
11:07:05 <FLHerne> ah, if it was two weeks ago you could have waved at me, I was at Smethwick engine house
11:08:12 <FLHerne> between Rolfe Street and Galton Bridge stations
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11:08:33 <JustANortherner> I went down past there on the 12th, so you were probably around...
11:08:42 <JustANortherner> Was on one of the many Voyagers that would have gone past you
11:08:57 <FLHerne> I'll have heard you at least then :p
11:09:19 <JustANortherner> Not too bad inside thankfully 😂
11:09:53 <JustANortherner> But yes, if you fancy a walk towards the railway tomorrow morning, I'm on the Voyager that passes Sandwell heading south at about 0648
11:10:31 <FLHerne> probably too early for me, but you never know :D
11:10:50 <JustANortherner> I wish it was too early for me 😂
11:13:19 <JustANortherner> That train leaves Manchester, where I shall board, at 0511...
11:13:31 <JustANortherner> Means I'll be awake by 0400 at the latest...
11:13:37 <LordAro> well that's just silly
11:14:11 <LordAro> please tell me you start work early too, and don't actually have a 4 hour commute
11:14:39 <JustANortherner> I have a 4 hour commute... I only do it once a week thankfully
11:15:14 <JustANortherner> I usually get the 0703 train to get to the office just before 10 though.
11:15:22 <JustANortherner> (Bus leaves where I live around 0603)
11:16:00 <JustANortherner> But I'm required to be in London for an event by 11, and my usual train to London doesn't get there until 1040, and doesn't give me enough time to get where I need to go.
11:16:14 <JustANortherner> And the alternative is a peak fare on Avanti...
11:16:50 <LordAro> i hope you're getting paid for it
11:17:38 <LordAro> if my job required me to be 4 hours away, they'd sure as hell be paying for it
11:18:48 <JustANortherner> Tbf, it's my choice to live up here, so I can't really blame work...
11:18:57 <JustANortherner> And the travel is free except for the bus, so I can't complain
11:21:19 <JustANortherner> That's also the reason I go the long way to London a lot.
11:21:19 <JustANortherner> London via the long way = free through work.
11:21:19 <JustANortherner> London via Avanti in morning peak = £184.70 walk-up fare...
11:21:45 <JustANortherner> I do get a discount of 75% on that £185 fare if its leisure travel, but still...
11:25:52 <Samu> on ScriptGroup.GetNumEngines, if you pass an invalid engine, or an engine of a different vehicle type of that of the group, openttd asserts
11:32:07 <petern> LordAro, I might get an older Ice Trike, they are a different kettle of fish but you can't fall off on ice. (You can still crash though...)
11:32:50 <JustANortherner> Crashing is part of the fun, no?
11:45:24 <Samu> I noticed something "big" about CompanyMode for GS'es
11:45:59 <Samu> CompanyMode will still be set to that company
11:46:17 <Samu> and tries to execute commands on behalf of that poofed company, which is now invalid
11:46:57 <Samu> i have no sure way to reproduce this, but it's probably gonna affect almost all of the APi
11:47:09 <Samu> that don't enforce IsValidCompany
11:47:14 <petern> So the any command will fail. Is that a problem?
11:48:35 <petern> I guess non-command calls need to fail too.
11:58:54 <FLHerne> Samu: I mean, even if you propose to fix it in some patch, having a specific bug report means you can say "Fix #10405: "
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13:51:03 <petern> Hmm, corrupted music files.
14:00:10 <Samu> isn't wagon removal on a per group basis? i'm confused
14:08:33 <Samu> this should be part of ScriptCompany, and then create a new one for ScriptGroup for group only
15:09:32 <Happpy> Hi I don't no if its the right place for it but I got a question and a bug
15:12:19 <Happpy> If a host ove a sever find the sever but players can not find it on the sever list is it the sever problem or a bug on the sever list because the sever information say its online
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15:47:23 <FLHerne> Happpy: what OpenTTD version?
15:47:55 <FLHerne> if before 12.0, lack of port forwarding may be an issue
15:48:56 <FLHerne> if 12.0 or later, you need to set server visibility to "Global" for other players to see it
15:49:57 <Happpy> It's ok I fix the problem
15:52:26 <Samu> all of ScriptGroup is now accessible to GS's!
15:52:43 <Samu> i could see some improvements could be made, i just didn't bother with them
15:55:42 <Samu> GROUP_ALL and GROUP_DEFAULT require a valid company id, but the valid groups don't
15:56:29 <Samu> i could make it so GS could use some functions directly without needing to enter companymode
15:59:18 <petern> I have a feeling it would make sense to require a valid company scope in all cases.
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16:09:42 <Samu> getting a list of all groups, regardless of owner, interesting
16:17:27 <Samu> ScriptVehicleList_DefaultGroup, hmm insteresting question
16:18:06 <Samu> a list of vehicles of all companies that are in the default group? sounds like a ... interesting idea?
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16:55:59 <Samu> those are the remaining ones
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18:18:07 <andythenorth[d]> that is enough working for the man for today
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18:18:51 <TallTyler> Why are OpenTTD coordinates reversed? 0 is the very top tile, which makes sense, but Y is diagonally to the left and X is diagonally to the right...
18:19:26 <andythenorth[d]> 0,0 would have been top left in screen co-ordinates
18:19:30 <andythenorth[d]> then it's rotated
18:19:37 <andythenorth[d]> but I'm guessing, based on Flash games 😛
18:19:47 <Samu> I forgot how to deal with script events
18:20:01 <TallTyler> Yeah, it's top left, but X and Y are swapped
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18:20:46 <TallTyler> Guess I'll just explain it in documentation and let scenario creators swap it in their data
18:20:59 <TallTyler> That way it's consistent with Land Info Tool
18:21:32 <TallTyler> (trying a new approach with town import from JSON, which is working splendidly)
18:22:25 <andythenorth[d]> GS JSON parser 😛
18:23:44 <TallTyler> Not GS, I'm doing it in vanilla Scenario Editor
18:23:54 <TallTyler> Draft PR coming later today 🙂
18:25:59 <TallTyler> Hmm, I should probably think about future-proofing tree and river data imports too
18:26:10 <TallTyler> Those would be PNG imports though, not JSON
18:26:58 <TallTyler> I wonder if OWNER_DEITY signs should be importable via JSON list?
18:27:00 <andythenorth[d]> why do it the easy when we could architecture astronaut? 😄
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18:28:00 * andythenorth[d] designs most ineffecient way possible
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18:30:45 <TallTyler> Thankfully my new approach doesn't touch CRSs -- the last one did, which is why I rewrote it this morning
18:31:29 <TallTyler> Target population made London pretty big
18:32:26 <TallTyler> I like how the game reminds you so prominently that you're in Scenario Editor, just in case you forget 😛
18:32:54 <TallTyler> Time to write some documentation, I guess
18:34:26 <Rubidium> not bad... going from 1:20 to 1:07 for 100 ticks of Wentbourne in debug by adding an annotation to five functions
18:45:07 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:47:30 <andythenorth[d]> so when is 13.0? 🙂
18:48:23 <andythenorth[d]> asking for a friend 🙂
18:48:37 <andythenorth[d]> ^ doesn't bother me if that's in or out, assuming we do a 13.1 sometime
18:48:43 <andythenorth[d]> but if it's in, it needs work 🙂
18:49:16 <andythenorth[d]> testing the text stack (probably me), writing grf docs (preferably not me, but often is)
18:49:31 <andythenorth[d]> figuring out nml and string IDs (definitely not me)
18:50:05 <andythenorth[d]> separate nml issue, not having named constants for the various UI bits in var 10 sticks out as not ideal
18:51:13 <andythenorth[d]> I was having more fun inventing GSBears.Defecate()
18:51:22 <glx[d]> var10 is quite generic
18:52:01 <andythenorth[d]> I couldn't see how to quickly provide constants
18:56:39 <Samu> ScriptEventVehicleUnprofitable for GS's, vehicles of all companies creating events
18:56:50 <Samu> how large than the event pool be?
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19:05:07 <michi_cc[d]> Well, let's do one step as nobody has screamed bloody murder yet...
19:52:14 <FLHerne> surely 10399 won't make 13.0 post-RC
19:52:26 <FLHerne> unless someone decides to shrug and do another RC
19:54:17 <michi_cc[d]> RC should mean feature freeze. And some people here at least though the bugs in RC1 are enough for a RC2.
19:55:25 <michi_cc[d]> Note to everbody: I will release something on the weekend, no matter the state. So if it is not supposed to be totally broken, you have time till then to get your stuff in order.
20:22:36 <Samu> I don't know what to do about those 2
20:22:46 <Samu> the 3rd one is pointless to give it access to GS
20:24:55 <andythenorth[d]> not sure what it does, but from the name....seems points for GS
20:25:38 <andythenorth[d]> the other 2 should be available to GS
20:35:18 <Rubidium> ScriptInfo is what the AI/GS needs to extend in info.nut, so it's called when OpenTTD want to start a random AI to check whether that's allowed. In other words, it's not even associated with a company but a specific instance of an AI that has not even been started yet
20:38:01 <Rubidium> well, the other two would be debatable I'd reckon. Should the game script really make the choice for you to merge with another company? On the other hand, if you use the GS as an automation aid that would make sense...
20:41:59 <andythenorth[d]> if the GS is the competition authority
20:42:05 <andythenorth[d]> then it might allow or deny
20:42:16 <andythenorth[d]> or if there are inter-company dealings via the story book and auctions
20:43:22 <Rubidium> though an AI could get the event earlier, so for sure denying via these events is not in the cards
20:57:12 <Happpy> fridaemon: it's not my sever I having the problem the host say he can not fix it because he think its a bug in the openttd multidplayer sever list
20:58:15 <petern> Is your server severed from the system?
20:59:00 <andythenorth[d]> is it a server or a sever?
21:00:20 <Happpy> The wird thin is sever 1 and 2 fine
21:00:42 <Happpy> It's the redbit sever I got the problem with
21:04:34 <Happpy> He give me the ip address get the sever manually bit now its not show up
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21:15:09 <Samu> visual studio is warning me that buyer is uninitialized
21:17:46 <Samu> i want to hide buyer from the doxxygen thing if you're AI
21:27:34 <Rubidium> well, initialize it with something pointless like INVALID_COMPANY in case of an AI.
21:34:18 <Rubidium> wow... about 50 strategically placed [[gnu::always_inline]] and the runtime of a debug build with -pg goes from over 6:30 to under 3:00. The overhead of function calls is really great there
21:43:59 <Rubidium> too bad we're not running in such a configuration often :(
21:44:39 <LordAro> does it do anything for release?
21:45:29 <Rubidium> uhm... well... a *tiny* bit of extra preprocessor time, otherwise none
21:46:56 <Rubidium> at least the way I have implemented it right now definitely does nothing, as the annotations I put there when in -D_DEBUG are not put there when there's no -D_DEBUG
21:47:23 <LordAro> any reason to do that?
21:47:59 <Rubidium> though, arguably the compiler's inlining should be smart enough to inline all the ~50 functions I manually annotated
21:50:45 <andythenorth[d]> ok I have to admit
21:50:50 <andythenorth[d]> I have played tanks
21:50:59 <andythenorth[d]> instead of designing GSBears or GSOtters
21:51:45 <andythenorth[d]> I do think GSForest might be a thing
21:52:24 <andythenorth[d]> GSForest.PlantTrees(GSTileRegion)
21:52:28 <andythenorth[d]> this is not trolling
21:52:50 <andythenorth[d]> might be GSLandscape actually or something like that
21:53:15 <andythenorth[d]> single command to apply a feature to a region, maybe with random jitter or something
21:54:27 <andythenorth[d]> also if we had GSAystar or similar
21:54:43 <andythenorth[d]> we could have GS build roads between 2 points
21:54:44 <Rubidium> so I doubt the compiler's performance will be affected much
21:56:42 <Rubidium> though those rules are also a bit whack-a-mole-ish, as adding an annotation removes that from the equation and others then become more prominent
21:58:26 <Rubidium> from 80 to 60 seconds for a debug build on 100 ticks Wentbourne. That's a result
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22:13:19 * andythenorth[d] maths as a service
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22:15:33 <Samu> okay, the bug is CompanyMode itself
22:15:58 <Samu> if the company is invalid, it should fallback to OWNER_DEITY instead of INVALID_COMPANY, don't u think?
22:16:33 <Samu> let me show where this is
22:18:55 <Samu> got a crash because I was attemping to get the railtypes of company 0 which didn't yet start
22:19:11 <Samu> i just used GSCompanyMode(0)
22:19:22 <Samu> and railtype list crashes
22:20:31 <petern> Game crash or GS crash?
22:21:07 <Samu> ScriptObject::GetCompany() was COMPANY_INVALID instead of OWNER_DEITY
22:24:38 <petern> If the company is invalid then COMPANY_INVALID is correct...
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22:26:53 <TallTyler> God the town generation GUI is awful
22:27:22 <TallTyler> Some of these buttons are toggles, some are actions, and several groupings don't make any sense at all
22:27:47 <TallTyler> I need to add a button, so might as well throw it out and start over?
22:28:06 <Rubidium> TallTyler: I thought you were looking at some of the recent bug reports
22:29:03 <TallTyler> something something brand standards and consistency
22:29:08 <Rubidium> the one about the useless buttons in that UI (10287)
22:31:08 <Samu> then railtypes needs the fix
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22:31:25 <petern> #10337 should just be closed I reckon.
22:31:33 <TallTyler> Hmm, maybe I just stick the button wherever it fits and redo the layout in a separate PR
22:32:07 <TallTyler> Regarding #10337, does it work using the Original map generator?
22:32:17 <TallTyler> (I should just try it...)
22:33:08 <TallTyler> What's the default snow coverage? 50%?
22:33:28 <petern> I don't know, someone removed the original generator choice from landscape generation...
22:34:48 <TallTyler> No, it's 40%, and with Original map generator it works fine at 128x128 but farms won't generate at 64x64
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22:35:53 <TallTyler> I think the problem with that issue is the expected result `The game should be able to generate maps small (up to 256x256 size) with forest and farms in sub-arctic landscape style.` is not necessarily true?
22:36:29 <petern> Load up FIRS and create a 64x64 map 🙂
22:36:50 <TallTyler> I'll leave a nice comment and close the issue, unless someone else is already doing so
22:42:36 <TallTyler> petern: It's still available in Settings, just takes a couple extra clicks 🙂
22:43:09 <andythenorth[d]> TallTyler: GS story book town generator 😛
22:43:23 <andythenorth[d]> I am becoming a satire of myself
22:43:45 <TallTyler> GS can't load files, right?
22:44:02 <TallTyler> Base game? Whatever you want to call it
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22:44:48 <TallTyler> Can your GS load JSON? 😛
22:45:03 <andythenorth[d]> it can if you write GSLoadJSON
22:45:09 <petern> How do I kill this Cyberdemon...
22:45:10 <andythenorth[d]> it's just a wrapper
22:45:18 <andythenorth[d]> petern: nukes
22:45:27 <andythenorth[d]> running away?
22:45:56 <andythenorth[d]> I bet you youtube now recommends me Doom videos again
22:46:05 <andythenorth[d]> is discord selling adsense cookies?
22:46:21 <Rubidium> TallTyler: yes, if you send it via the admin port there'll be an event with an squirrel object structure of the json that was sent
22:46:54 <TallTyler> But can it open the fios GUI for players to select the file they want?
22:47:03 <TallTyler> * has not written much GS
22:47:39 <andythenorth[d]> GS with player visible file IO might be unwise
22:48:10 <andythenorth[d]> might not be a vulnerability, but it really is a vector I think
23:00:50 <andythenorth[d]> hmm GS story page town maker
23:00:56 <andythenorth[d]> GS story page forest manager
23:01:03 <andythenorth[d]> rinse, repeat
23:01:16 <andythenorth[d]> story page => shadow GUI
23:03:52 <TallTyler> I'm planning additional loading of forests, deserts, and objects (for stuff like autolay swamp tiles), as a separate PR
23:04:00 <TallTyler> River tiles would be cool too but terraforming is problematic
23:04:14 <TallTyler> Those would all be PNGs, not JSON
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23:44:16 <reldred> TallTyler: you have my attention
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