IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-12-16
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00:43:44 <petern> Main process exited, code=killed, status=6/ABRT
00:43:47 <petern> Well... that's not fun
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03:15:12 <Pruple> whose daft idea was trams anyway?
03:45:01 <EmperorJake> A few comments down: "No, it's too much work and it will never be good enough."
03:47:13 <reldred> kamnet: Nahc it was either csaboka or eis_os iirc?
03:47:29 <reldred> I know it wasn’t Patchman,
03:47:50 <reldred> That said everyone bounced off each other quite a bit
03:49:51 <Pruple> the person who actually implemented it in TTDP was steven hoefel
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03:53:57 <reldred> Yeah stevenh on the forums
03:54:11 <reldred> God can’t believe I forgot about him D:
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05:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> EmperorJake: both those assessments are probably still true :)
05:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, "too much work" can often be overcome with enough enthusiasm
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08:13:06 <Fairy> Pruple: is this available yet anywhere, or still being worked on?
08:14:14 <Fairy> alright. Looking very much forward to seeing it done
08:56:32 <LordAro> it feels a bit "let us be like python"
08:57:37 <LordAro> i guess it doesn't really matter - mildly quicker for small test programs, and bigger programs won't have anything else in Main anyway
08:59:33 <peter1138> Except when Main is your entry point? I dunno
10:19:03 <dP> got a few hours to reimplement NUTS in grf-py, what could go wrong...
10:24:33 <andythenorth> shall I close 10245?
10:24:42 <andythenorth> we don't support that macOS version
11:38:29 <Pruple> to quote a spanish elecrical engineer,
11:39:03 <andythenorth> ohle ohle ohle ohle ohle
11:39:05 <LordAro> i guess the question is whether we could get away with lowering the macOS requirements to 10.13
11:39:10 <LordAro> it was clear that it didn't work in 10.12
11:40:18 <Pruple> variant variants? nested buymenu? 🙂
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11:40:34 <newbthenewbd> ah so that answers my question whether it's visible anywhere once closed lol
11:41:23 <newbthenewbd> yeah I had just been willing to test it, but couldn't yet muster up courage to build it with some newer clang and see
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11:41:34 <petern> Pruple: I mean... have you tried it?
11:41:56 <newbthenewbd> like, in older macos versions, it would just take... changing the Info.plist
11:42:14 <newbthenewbd> but nowadays, it's hardcoded into the binary somehow that "THIS IS FOR 10.14 ONWARDS", at the Obj-C level I think?
11:42:14 <Pruple> petern: busy enough with other stuff, I'm leaving variants alone for now
11:43:16 <LordAro> newbthenewbd: changing Info.plist was the only thing done in #9689
11:43:25 <newbthenewbd> that requires a rebuild
11:43:30 <newbthenewbd> because macos toolchains read it
11:43:34 <newbthenewbd> and do their magic :)
11:43:57 <newbthenewbd> the Steam version isn't as much signed, I think, and then the error when trying to launch the binary inside the .app itself is, let me fetch it,
11:44:13 <LordAro> steam versions are identical
11:44:18 <LordAro> it's literally the same binary
11:44:24 <newbthenewbd> > application requires at least OS X version 10.14.0 (10.14.0), but is being run on 10.13.6 ( 10.13.6/17G14042), and so is exiting.Crash encountered, generating crash log...
11:44:29 <newbthenewbd> and then it's some ObjC blabbery
11:44:57 <newbthenewbd> well idk the one from the .dmg complained about code signing here... right, maybe that's because it was after I changed the Info.plist
11:45:02 <newbthenewbd> while, didn't even bother in this case
11:45:26 <newbthenewbd> so yeah, that makes sense too, but it's a rebuild and I'm like, if someone rebuild it plox ❤️ ❤️ lol
11:45:55 <newbthenewbd> like, it's just me complaining but it affects some three years' worth of computers
11:46:17 <newbthenewbd> and we on 10.13 are actually a bit used to 10.14 only stuff working, Typora is an example
11:46:18 <petern> Yeah, the request to you is to make the change to test and ensure it works. so you will need to build it to test it.
11:46:29 <petern> We aren't going to just change it and hope.
11:46:43 <newbthenewbd> yeah I could test it but do I really have to rebuild it myself lol
11:46:47 <glx[d]> It's just Apple policy to force users to buy new devices
11:49:50 <FLHerne> Will the CI do it if you create a PR?
11:50:35 <newbthenewbd> a very good one let's see
11:50:50 <LordAro> not one that you can access, i think?
11:50:57 <glx[d]> But CI artefacts are not accessible without modifying workflow
11:51:20 <newbthenewbd> or buying the pro version, is it lol
11:51:32 <FLHerne> It does build, but I can't see a ^ what glx said
13:05:49 <Pruple> you silly twisted boy you
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13:20:54 <petern> Whoops, I just used my CI to test compilation.
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14:56:43 <andythenorth> I'm so frigging bored
14:56:53 <andythenorth> stuck in my loft, not allowed in the rest of the house
14:58:32 <andythenorth> I composed a short covid song
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15:06:43 <Pruple> other viruses are available
15:06:57 <Pruple> been laid low for a couple of days here but apparently it's not covid...
15:18:43 <petern> "Why doesn't this SQL view definition match what's on the server!?"
15:18:56 <petern> git: lol you're not at HEAD
15:19:07 <andythenorth> LordAro: just bored
15:19:29 <andythenorth> not sick enough to be really sick, not well enough to write freds
15:19:49 <andythenorth> been watching TV 😛
15:22:11 <andythenorth> ok if the icon for 'random' is dice
15:22:20 <andythenorth> what's the icon for 'magically change livery to match engine'?
15:33:28 <newbthenewbd> re 10.13, k fine attempting to build it lol, is fredcodec of any important use?
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15:54:35 <dP> took a bit more than a few hours...
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17:11:13 <Gwyd> andythenorth: Paint can with magic wand
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17:26:21 <newbthenewbd> mk so confirmed it just runs idk lol
17:28:08 <newbthenewbd> built with Clang 15 (whether hauling the whole stdc++ along, I hope not) with only the 10.14.0 changed to 10.13.0 in Info.plist.in and even ld only complaining about some text-based stub files being out of sync, that I can see
17:30:53 <newbthenewbd> > (whether hauling the whole stdc++ along, I hope not)
17:30:53 <newbthenewbd> but I mean idk, I think this is enough to still warrant a "real" test, anyways 10.13 support (or even discrete non-blocking, if it randomly breaks in the future, well, it's been written in plaintext here that 10.14...) would be very ❤️
17:55:43 <newbthenewbd> btw if I'm not wildly misintepreting it, on the original pull request that unfortunately introduced such a Stallman's Printer™ (it's one char in the build system, put in there with a few other chars specifically to lock me out, that's actually locking me out, I get to call it that :D)...
17:56:21 <newbthenewbd> ...this comment from nielsmh would seem very wise: "Patching the Plist during the CI build sounds a little more reasonable to me, if it's theoretically possible to still build with a toolchain that can target older macOS versions."
17:59:51 <newbthenewbd> 'cause if it were just set technically post-build, and Finder still called that incompatible but it could be worked around by tweaking that one char instead of decoding a whole proprietary architecture or just rebuilding it possibly for hours (on an even older machine..), well that saves a lot of time even for the 10.12.6 folk who know <s>LD_PRELOAD</s> DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES
18:06:29 <LordAro> feel free to construct all that into a PR if you like
18:06:42 <LordAro> with justifications that aren't just "as i said on discord" ;)
18:06:43 <newbthenewbd> inb4 `test passed, you official macos build volunteer now`
18:07:01 <LordAro> definitely a possibility :p
18:07:28 <newbthenewbd> yeah rest assured that this poor student has no time for that and very much appreciates the work being done lol
18:08:19 <LordAro> students have more time than anyone else! :p
18:09:03 <newbthenewbd> two reports on machining and hopefully a repeat test, still due today and it's past 7pm
18:09:18 <newbthenewbd> so obviously my efforts redirect here lol
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18:11:09 <dP> hm, how do I disable default vehicles? action0 on their ids doesn't seem to work
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18:28:37 <dP> oh, they're numbered starting from 116
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19:05:27 <petern> Hmm, no beer, only whisky.
19:05:49 <petern> Do I want to be able to go outside at 8am for a bike ride tomorrow... in the snow?
19:06:36 <Eddi|zuHause> dP: in nml the line is "disable_item(FEAT_TRAINS, 0, 115);"
19:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the other vehicles respectively
19:09:06 <dP> yeah, figured it out already, ty
19:09:36 <dP> I'm so not equipped to debug that rn...
19:11:41 <JGR> That depends what you do in it
19:11:54 <dP> changing power, speed and te
19:12:11 <JGR> What variables are you looking at?
19:12:28 <dP> doing NUTS thing basically
19:12:35 <dP> NUTS doesn't seem to desync...
19:16:20 <JGR> I'd suggest setting `debuglevel desync=1` for testing anyway
19:17:55 <dP> I'll hope it's just because game didn't check the md5 for newgrf and I changed it locally
19:18:42 <JGR> If you change it locally between loading it into the server and into the client you;re not going to have a good time
19:19:23 <dP> yeah, I expected it to check md5 but looks like it only checks min_compatible_version or smth
19:19:39 <dP> as soon as I upped that it required me to download the older version
19:20:00 <JGR> MD5 checking is only done during the scan
19:20:10 <JGR> If you edit the files, you should do the scan again
19:20:35 <dP> does `reloadnewgrfs` not update it?
19:22:38 <dP> yeah, that probably explains it then
19:22:55 <dP> I was developing it so I was reloading but not rescanning
19:23:04 <dP> so it let me on the server with newer grf
19:42:45 <petern> I dunno, these guys dump a PR on you and leave others to pick up the pieces 😉
20:25:06 <TallTyler> Title screen competition is over, and it looks like I won. Only a few other contestants bothered to figure out the camera controls 😦
20:47:27 <TrueBrain> and the winner is ME!
20:48:06 <TrueBrain> I must print some NFTs now to compensate ..
20:48:10 * TrueBrain goes back into his corner now
20:49:10 <TrueBrain> yes, you go stay in your corner
20:49:16 <TrueBrain> stop spreading lies around you
20:49:39 <TrueBrain> wait, not lies .. VIRUS! That was it! Tomato tomato ..
20:50:14 <TrueBrain> awh, I scared him now 😦
20:51:55 <TallTyler> I have new Steam images for you sometime 🙂
20:52:03 <TallTyler> (in the PR, it's updated)
20:52:35 <TallTyler> I'm also the winner for those, unless somebody else wants to submit a competing PR 😛
20:54:28 <TallTyler> I legitimately have trust issues from the last few years of living in the US
20:54:44 <TallTyler> My faith in humanity has never been lower
20:55:27 <TrueBrain> it will restore your faith
20:55:44 <TallTyler> I do, often through the lens of this Discord
20:56:14 <TallTyler> I'm in the process of getting my first formal software job, and then maybe I can work toward getting a visa to live in Europe
20:56:50 <TrueBrain> well, we do like to import good people, so you are more than welcome 😄
21:25:42 <petern> They can be retargeted.
21:26:01 <petern> Can be changed after clicking on Edit.
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22:34:24 <andythenorth> tomorrow: such Horse variants
22:34:31 <andythenorth> had the idea I was waiting for 😛
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22:47:20 <petern> Was the idea "stop having covid"?
22:47:28 <petern> Cos I think that's a great idea.
22:54:52 <andythenorth> I am not sentimentally attached to covid at all
22:55:40 <andythenorth> the idea was to consolidate some of the varaction 2 for variants in the templating 😛
22:56:15 <andythenorth> instead of duplicating the entire chain for each variant for all the fancy varact 2 things
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23:06:32 <andythenorth> needs variants 😛
23:06:46 <andythenorth> and the sprite offsets for reversed vehicles 😛
23:07:23 <petern> I mean, I assumed you were just copying the action 3s
23:08:17 <andythenorth> that assumes Horse isn't a stack of magic hiding magic
23:08:22 <andythenorth> in the compile 😛
23:08:53 <andythenorth> currently it just duplicates the whole vehicle, and all of its actions
23:09:00 <andythenorth> but adjusts the realsprite
23:10:22 <andythenorth> tomorrow I will make it less silly
23:10:26 <andythenorth> or differently silly
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23:14:03 <JGR> Nearly all NewGRFs have huge amounts of duplication, you're hardly unusual on that
23:14:34 <JGR> (Well, those GRfs which have varaction 2s)
23:15:43 <Pruple> TallTyler: #10233 can go in, yes? 😉
23:17:54 <glx[d]> maybe #9745 could return in the list
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23:56:46 <TallTyler> glx[d]: Sure, I've re-added it (it was a draft when I removed it). Needs someone to approve it - I don't understand how scripts work well enough
continue to next day ⏵
