IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-12-07
            
00:38:32 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1049847344570576907/5d85528db986ccd1.jpeg
00:38:32 <petern> AIs eh?
00:38:52 <petern> I wonder if it can make a good OpenTTD AI.
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00:53:09 <TallTyler> petern: can you open an issue about the rivers and assign it to me? Iโ€™m currently driving 1,700 miles across the country for a move but can work on it next week.
01:01:55 <glx[d]> I think there's already an issue (the one about graphics)
01:02:28 <glx[d]> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10218
01:05:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #10218: [Bug]: Graphics bug - banks of wide rivers near sloped terrain https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10218
01:07:43 <glx[d]> TallTyler: I assigned you to that one, title says graphic bug but it's the same issue
01:09:09 <reldred> at the very least it probably needs to not generate coast tiles
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01:32:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PikkaBird commented on issue #10218: [Bug]: Graphics bug - banks of wide rivers near sloped terrain https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10218
01:37:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #10218: [Bug]: Graphics bug - banks of wide rivers near sloped terrain https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10218
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02:09:50 <CplBurdenR3294> petern: Minecraft dodgy water physics when? ๐Ÿ˜›
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05:24:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kulkom commented on pull request #10141: Fix #10140: [SDL2] Lock mouse while moving viewport https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10141#issuecomment-1340391252
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07:33:50 <iddi> petern: I suppose that if you make rivers get wider much slower, it won't be "weird" anymore
07:59:27 <petern> No that's not the reason
08:20:49 <andythenorth> imagine 1 million unique vehicles
08:20:56 <andythenorth> I'll need a better generator
08:21:42 <petern> Use an AI to munge them all
08:22:19 <andythenorth> I was thinking Dall-E for the sprites
08:22:24 <andythenorth> and GPT3 to manage the IDs
08:27:40 <petern> Remember when I did OpenGL? I loaded each sprite into a separate texture. Such lols
08:42:36 <petern> Nobody wants 3CC do they?
08:55:58 <Pruple> yes
08:56:00 <Pruple> nobody
08:58:40 <petern> Ok
08:59:09 <petern> Sorry no-andy
09:10:40 <andythenorth> what would we use it for though?
09:10:42 <andythenorth> the lolz?
09:12:38 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1049976723522977803/image.png
09:12:38 <andythenorth> I could add 3CC here ๐Ÿ˜›
09:14:08 <Rubidium> why just 3?
09:17:21 <andythenorth> 16
09:18:18 <petern> There's only so many palette indices ๐Ÿ™‚
09:19:41 <petern> I forget I'm about 1km away from a railway line. Occasionally hear train horns, but infrequently enough to 'surprise' me.
09:27:15 <andythenorth> why was 3 company colours a thing?
09:27:18 <andythenorth> was it for NSE?
09:27:25 <andythenorth> or something about wagon colours in groups?
09:39:09 <petern> Just somebody wanted it.
09:39:26 <petern> Probably before variants.
09:39:26 <andythenorth> I think it was those unused pinks that give the idea ๐Ÿ˜›
09:39:29 <andythenorth> probably
09:39:36 <andythenorth> we need the pinks for water anyway
09:39:45 <andythenorth> at least until someone thinks of magic
09:40:02 <andythenorth> we know the slope of each tile? ๐Ÿ˜›
09:40:05 <andythenorth> hmm
09:40:20 <petern> Well you can layer sprites I believe.
09:40:39 <andythenorth> 32bpp sprites with alpha
09:41:29 <petern> Have a second part that overlays the first with a different 2CC map. "4CC for free"
09:42:05 <andythenorth> how about colour blending?
09:42:27 <andythenorth> might be exciting
09:42:44 <andythenorth> I've forgotten what a brightness map is called in CGI
09:42:46 <andythenorth> UV map?
09:42:46 <andythenorth> o
09:43:07 <andythenorth> there used to be 3 layers: the texture(s), the bump map, and the brightness map
09:43:09 <petern> UV is mapping texture coordinates.
09:43:38 <andythenorth> I haven't touched CGI since about 2002
09:43:40 <petern> bump mapping is just a texture on top.
09:43:55 <EmperorJake> 3cc would be nice but the entire 2cc set would need to be redrawn ๐Ÿ˜›
09:43:57 <petern> And normals are where all the lighting happens.
09:44:02 <petern> I think.
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09:44:05 <ag> 3CC sounds amazing
09:44:20 <andythenorth> in 2002, there was a lot more emphasis on e.g. fake lighting etc
09:44:26 <andythenorth> pre-creating shadow effects etc
09:44:38 <andythenorth> to keep polys low and render times plausible
09:44:44 <petern> Yes but you do that by baking it into the texture.
09:45:00 <andythenorth> yeah so the tools I used had a specific texture designer tool
09:45:10 <andythenorth> where you stacked up textures and shadow maps
09:45:20 <andythenorth> so you could have a texture of brick with a window
09:45:26 <andythenorth> and then make the window lit or not
09:45:26 <petern> Gourand eh?
09:45:40 <andythenorth> instead of modelling a window properly ๐Ÿ˜›
09:47:15 <petern> 4096 mostly unused palette remaps is fine right?
09:47:30 <petern> It's only 1MB.
09:47:34 <andythenorth> Iron Horse?
09:47:39 <andythenorth> the generated ones?
09:47:39 <petern> 3CC
09:47:45 <andythenorth> oh probably fine
09:47:56 <andythenorth> do it twice
09:48:10 <andythenorth> our Acorn A3000 had 2MB
09:48:24 <andythenorth> people probably have more RAM these days?
09:50:08 <petern> RGB CC generated remaps as needed, so that's also possible, although it the spritecache injection would need to be fixed.
09:51:34 <petern> There's also a bit in RGB CC that creates a reverse map, but I can't remember what it's for.
09:51:45 <petern> Where 1st and 2nd CCs are swapped.
09:52:31 <andythenorth> is it for swapping 1 CC and 2 CC?
09:52:34 <andythenorth> ๐Ÿ˜›
09:56:43 <petern> Well yes of course.
09:58:24 <petern> Ah the code detects when callback 2D is used to reverse the colour scheme.
10:00:16 <petern> Fun, so the NewGRF can use var 43 to get the chosen colour, and then reverse it.
10:00:29 <petern> I'm not sure why I handled this case.
10:01:25 <petern> If the 2 colours match the underlying non-RGB colours, then RGB CC will substitute with the RGB map, either normal or reversed.
10:42:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened issue #10222: [Bug]: Even-width horizontal/vertical lines have intial 'head' in wrong place. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10222
10:56:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fastFox2 commented on issue #10077: [Bug]: Incorrect loan limit amount - other than what the player selected https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10077
11:08:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #10077: [Bug]: Incorrect loan limit amount - other than what the player selected https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10077
11:16:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #10220: Feature: Engine variant groups https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10220#issuecomment-1340819701
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11:45:13 <Samu> hi
11:45:44 <Samu> I'm working on #8492
11:46:47 <Samu> something changed related to rivers that is now doing weird results on it
11:46:52 <Samu> i'm investigating
11:47:37 <Samu> wide rivers
11:48:07 <LordAro> Samu: possibly related to #10218 ?
11:51:01 <Samu> i saw those graphical issues too
11:51:35 <petern> Those are not graphical issues ๐Ÿ™‚
11:52:14 <Samu> but my problem is the debug version of #8492 is now marking some more tiles than intended, and they're all near the wide rivers
11:52:30 <Samu> so now I'm investigating
12:07:03 <Samu> need to see how rivers are now created
12:07:29 <Samu> the debug is marking those tiles that get flooded with a "c", meaning it's flooding MP_CLEAR tiles
12:07:46 <Samu> I have no detection against that
12:08:34 <Samu> or do I?
12:16:41 <petern> I'm not sure what your focus is on in that changeset.
12:17:56 <petern> Seems to be you check if a tile can possibly flood and prevent the command from executing if so.
12:18:46 <petern> Isn't it more logical to check if terraform will actually flood, and then not terraform if so? I suppose there's a cascade effect with terraforming that might be tricky
12:24:16 <Samu> what was the PR that made rivers wide, need to see something there
12:27:11 <TallTyler> Just search Wide Rivers ๐Ÿ™‚
12:27:19 <TallTyler> Thatโ€™s what itโ€™s called
12:28:13 <TallTyler> It was originally a JGRPP feature that I upstreamed but I added a bunch of slope terraforming. It needs a bit more to fix the current wide rivers issue, which Iโ€™ll add next week
12:29:45 <TallTyler> It just traverses the river path after making the river, and as it goes along makes it wider up to a radius of 3 tiles
12:30:44 <Samu> i think it needs more instances of RunTileLoop()
12:31:00 <Samu> or just water them instantly, i think there's a command for that
12:31:06 <Samu> a function
12:31:11 <Pruple> http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR663.loop.shtml golly
12:31:24 <Samu> lunch time, brb
12:43:25 <TallTyler> It waters them instantly IIRC
12:43:52 <TallTyler> If youโ€™re seeing extra ocean flooding calls it might be from the terraforming
12:44:20 <TallTyler> I donโ€™t know exactly what your PR does ๐Ÿ™‚
12:44:48 <TallTyler> And Iโ€™m driving across Kansas and Missouri today with no cell service so I wonโ€™t be consistently able to respond to anything
12:45:34 <TallTyler> (Well, my partner is driving, I donโ€™t Discord and Drive)
12:56:08 <petern> Hmm, in my Explorer windows files are grouped by date, even when sorting by name.
12:56:22 <petern> I know I turned that on for someone a long time ago, so I can't remember how to turn it off ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
12:56:39 <petern> Thanks, writing that helped, I found it ๐Ÿ˜„
13:05:05 <Pruple> that's funny.... if a vehicle's only order is a "service at", it will drive around with a blank info bar ๐Ÿ™‚
13:05:58 <petern> Uh oh
13:06:46 <Pruple> I suppose technically it doesn't have "no orders", it just doesn't have a current one. ๐Ÿ™‚
13:22:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #10222: [Bug]: Even-width horizontal/vertical lines have intial 'head' in wrong place. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10222
14:05:47 <Samu> what is this run tile loop supposed to be doing https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/landscape.cpp#L1463
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14:07:49 <petern> Maybe it increases ground density.
14:08:48 <LordAro> maybe
14:09:44 <Samu> i see it was to get desert land on grass, due to rivers in the proximity
14:10:52 <Samu> or the opposite
14:10:57 <Samu> get grass on desert land
14:15:52 <Samu> i wonder if it's really required?
14:16:00 <Samu> seems that code can be deleted
14:19:17 <Samu> okay, it is required for something, there are differences
14:25:13 <petern> You know an article is old when it contains "benchmark consisting of 1 million lines on standard Pentium III machines."
14:47:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] legitalk opened issue #10223: [Crash]: Error: Assertion failed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10223
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15:19:06 <petern> ...
15:19:14 <petern> Every single variable I try to look at is optimized away ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
15:28:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #10223: [Crash]: Error: Assertion failed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10223
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15:29:05 <glx[d]> Strange, after the assert it should show the crash window
15:29:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #10223: [Crash]: Error: Assertion failed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10223
15:35:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #10223: [Crash]: Error: Assertion failed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10223
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16:00:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #9807: [Bug]: Error message when trying to order articulated vehicles to non-drive-thru stop is unclear https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9807
16:11:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DjHaski opened issue #10224: [Bug]: Fast forward is toggling on after autosave even if Tab isn't pressed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10224
16:12:30 <LordAro> heh
16:12:39 <LordAro> found andy's alt
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17:02:42 <petern> ๐Ÿ˜„
17:14:27 <andythenorth> hurrah I didn't have to file that
17:14:38 <andythenorth> now I can just link the issue every time I complain
17:17:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #10141: Fix #10140: [SDL2] Lock mouse while moving viewport https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10141#issuecomment-1341304444
17:32:17 <petern> Chunky Docks?
17:34:39 <TallTyler> Thatโ€™s up to you, I think ๐Ÿค”
17:35:04 <Samu> i detected an Object tile being flooded somehow
17:35:05 <TallTyler> Iโ€™d love to see it though ๐Ÿ™‚
17:35:26 <Samu> and now i can't reproduce it, :( should have saved generation seed
17:37:24 <Samu> btw i find many tunnels to the sea
17:40:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #10141: Fix #10140: [SDL2] Lock mouse while moving viewport https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10141#issuecomment-1341332689
17:43:05 <Samu> i have a question, is it possible to place a tower object or lighthouse on tile height 0? it's the only way I can see it being flooded
17:47:56 <LordAro> don't see why not
17:48:06 <LordAro> if not those, then some newgrf object
17:51:25 <Samu> just tested using scenario editor, i placed lighthouses and transmiters on clear land height 0, then the sea came and flooded it
17:51:30 <Samu> them
17:51:45 <Samu> so yes, it happened, i wasn't hallucinating
17:51:47 <petern> Answered your own question ๐Ÿ™‚
17:53:14 <Samu> trying to make it happen again, i've been through 25 newgames
17:53:18 <Samu> and didn't repeat
17:56:11 <Samu> it's very rare it seems! it needs a river to be widened, using terraform command, leaving bareland tiles that don't get watered during the tileloop in CreateRivers, and then an object is placed there, before the final tileloop happens
18:09:54 <petern> Hmm, I guess docks are more useful than rgb cc
18:12:09 <andythenorth> welll
18:12:14 <andythenorth> what is more fun though? ๐Ÿ˜›
18:12:53 <andythenorth> eh this is sort of interesting, might read later, after endless life admin https://asahilinux.org/2022/11/tales-of-the-m1-gpu/
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18:40:33 <supermop_toil> rgb ceo faces
18:55:14 <petern> You can do that anyway
19:06:16 <supermop_toil> no i mean adjust the face with rgb sliders
19:06:40 <supermop_toil> what if i want 16 different shades of purple ceo
19:10:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like skin colour, eye colour, earring colour?
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19:32:20 <petern> Why is nearly bed time already.
19:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it's always bedtime somewhere
19:48:46 <supermop_toil> Eddi|zuHause: suit color, tie color
19:49:37 <supermop_toil> oddly the sprites i spent the most work on in my Hale base set I think never got noticed...
20:02:01 <petern> Well, docks does not compile. Hmm.
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20:14:54 <supermop_toil> no one seemed to ever find the aloha shirts
20:27:09 <reldred> supermop_toil: Oh I did, I love those
20:55:42 <Samu> [img]https://i.imgur.com/HueNdC0.png[/img] - okay, finally got proof that my #8492 fix is broken after the wide rivers was implemented
20:58:03 <Samu> chronological order: the tile was flattened to accomodate for a sloped river in front, leaving bareland. the tile wasn't flooded in time and town growth algorithm placed a road there. In the end, the road is flooded
20:58:19 <Samu> my code doesn't detect that
21:00:41 <Samu> an ez fix is to insta-water right after wide rivers doing terraforming, with ConvertGroundTilesIntoWaterTiles()
21:01:21 <Samu> a more localized fix is to fix wide rivers so they don't leave bareland behind
21:01:27 <Samu> as they're created
21:02:59 <Brickblock1> georgues
21:06:22 <Samu> a harder fix is me trying to figure out how to detect that so i can fix it on my side of the code
21:06:58 <TallTyler> The first sounds cleaner assuming Iโ€™m understanding the code correctly on my phone
21:07:44 <TallTyler> Samu: Does this run on the entire map?
21:07:48 <Samu> yes
21:08:03 <TallTyler> And is called from the main genworld function?
21:08:54 <petern> So anyone notice/care that some NewGRF data is in memory twice?
21:08:58 <Samu> my fixes are called from town growth algorithm
21:09:07 <Samu> still part of world gen
21:09:20 <Samu> happens after rivers are generated
21:09:54 <petern> Samu: This actually looks more like the bug caused by wide rivers, not really a bug in your stuff.
21:10:02 <TallTyler> Right, could you just call that conversion function between generating rivers and generating towns?
21:10:43 <TallTyler> The wide rivers bug as I understand is insufficient checks for if rivers should flow down a slope
21:10:57 <TallTyler> Based on whatโ€™s at the bottom of said slope
21:11:27 <petern> <https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/91337649/205629922-74bcaf09-d675-414e-8563-537223fc752c.PNG> is river banks where they shouldn't be... I think that could lead to unexpected flooding, in terms of what Samu is looking at.
21:11:53 <glx[d]> yeah based on the picture I'd say it's the same bug as #10218
21:12:23 <petern> andythenorth: goes it rewrite docks?
21:13:47 <TallTyler> The fix for wide rivers will be more terraforming to flatten those slope tiles when they shouldnโ€™t flow downwards yet
21:14:04 <TallTyler> (Flatten by raising two corners)
21:15:17 <glx[d]> I think you don't need to try to handle that in #8492 samu, as it's really something that should be prevented even without your PR
21:15:28 <petern> ^ Yup
21:17:30 <TallTyler> If anything my river fix will terraform land the other way - I believe the tile in question that samu found originally had one corner raised, which was lowered for the river slope on the tile to its northwest. With my change, it will end up with two corners raised so that the tile to its northwest is a flat river tile.
21:20:01 <TallTyler> Because we donโ€™t have river tiles at sea level, my fix wonโ€™t result in any more tiles be lowered to flat sea level, although itโ€™s possible that existing terraforming may still cause this if it happens to a tile adjacent to where the river should flow downhill
21:26:29 <Samu> TallTyler> Right, could you just call that conversion function between generating rivers and generating towns?
21:26:30 <Samu> yes
21:26:35 <Samu> that's the ez fix
21:27:01 <Samu> i tried it after all rivers are generated, before the tileloop in CreateRivers
21:27:34 <Samu> but it iterates the whole map
21:28:15 <petern> Samu, don't bother trying to fix anything until #10218 is fixed.
21:28:24 <petern> Or at least, not that particular issue ๐Ÿ™‚
21:28:53 <petern> Ah yes, of course, Gnome 3 does not run over xrdp in Debian ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
21:30:46 <supermop_toil> i always kinda wished river at level 0 = shallow water (beach/tidal flat etc)
21:32:59 <Samu> I questioned the tileloop's purpose at CreateRivers, turns out it's for setting grass density after switching from desert to grass. Somehow it requires a loop to run, otherwise it would still be detect as desert.
21:33:24 <Samu> it wasn't meant for flooding tiles after all
21:34:03 <Samu> but now, it kinda is, and does an incomplete job at it
21:34:50 <Samu> ConvertGroundTilesIntoWaterTiles() does it better
21:34:52 <petern> Are you even reading?
21:34:56 <Samu> yes i am
21:35:01 <petern> Are you even understanding?
21:37:50 <Samu> not sure I understand the fixes TallTyler is coming up with would solve leaving bareland behind that is flooded after.
21:39:32 <Samu> im gonna just submit the suggested changes posted in the pr
21:39:57 <Samu> and then wait for wide rivers fixes
21:40:33 <petern> TallTyler: It's a bit like being Zorged.
21:42:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick dismissed a review for pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8492#pullrequestreview-1174606559
21:42:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8492: Fix: Don't allow towns to terraform certain floodable tiles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8492
21:49:13 <TallTyler> I actually think my changes wonโ€™t solve it entirely, although they would make it even more rare than it already is
21:50:08 <andythenorth> petern: :gui_boats:
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22:26:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #10225: Fix #10223: Crash when vehicle cloning fails on order cloning. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10225
22:31:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #10225: Fix #10223: Crash when vehicle cloning fails on order cloning. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10225#pullrequestreview-1209212508
22:39:13 <Pruple> moon river, wider than a tile...
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23:09:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #10225: Fix #10223: Crash when vehicle cloning fails on order cloning. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10225
23:09:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #10223: [Crash]: Error: Assertion failed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10223
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23:38:58 <petern> Urgh, C++ initializers ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
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23:49:14 <petern> Unhandled exception at 0x00007FFD24F61400 (vcruntime140.dll) in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000000000000.
23:49:15 <petern> Oops ๐Ÿ™‚
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23:57:36 <TallTyler> Chunky docks are that low-level?