IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-12-05
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00:25:59 <glx[d]> at least we get the same 🙂
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08:21:43 <petern> > Road vehicles stopped on multitrack level crossings need teleporting to a depot to avoid crashing into the side of the train they're waiting for.
08:21:47 <petern> That is quite a solution
08:22:03 <petern> What if there is no depot?
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08:36:14 <LordAro> looks like it just doesn't bother and (potentially) crashes
08:36:36 <Pruple> crashes the vehicle or the game?
09:07:56 <petern> It's disconcerting when I get to work (by switching virtual desktop) and there's no emails to be dealt with immediately...
09:10:06 <petern> Also just need to decide on variable naming, add some doxygen, and then variants is pretty much ready to be exploded.
09:10:19 <petern> No state machine and no callbacks.
09:29:51 <petern> TBH once done it's quite dull but also quite useful.
09:30:19 <petern> Also I used enum class, so that's exciting.
09:37:20 <andythenorth> Pruple: AV9.9: VARIANTS EDITION
09:38:15 <Pruple> should be easy enough once I've redrawn everything. livery variants in 32bpp can just be alternative recolour masks 😛
09:43:14 <petern> Hmm, maybe I should get some monitor stands.
09:44:11 <petern> When I had three 22" 1680x1050 monitors, I made a custom stand out of wood that stretched across my desk area. But two 32" is a bit different...
09:48:45 * petern creates, approves, and merges his first PR of the day.
09:50:26 <andythenorth> was it a branch?
09:51:11 <petern> It was a branch, y es.
09:51:46 <petern> Goes it throw out branches?
09:52:16 <petern> I do rebase my branches before I merge, so it's a bit tidier.
09:56:15 <andythenorth> I just merge all mine into each other with merge commits
09:56:18 <andythenorth> that's correct yes?
09:57:04 <petern> If you don't want to keep them separate...
09:58:32 <petern> Do I see that jgrpp has merged the variable scaling stuff.
10:04:53 <petern> JavaScript 68.3%, C# 22.6%, HTML 6.4%
10:05:16 <petern> Pretty sure it's not that much js. Unless the included assets are *that large*
10:18:47 <petern> I considered that but wanted to keep the original-ish list height for... I-dunno reasons.
10:45:15 <petern> Sub-zero temperatures this coming week. That's me put off cycling, after a week of not feeling up to it anyway...
10:45:56 <petern> Mountain biking is the best way to avoid icy roads, but it's still freezing.
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11:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's just weird ocean flooding mechanics
11:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know when, but many years ago, someone decided that shore tiles should also flood "sideways"
11:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, the river "shore" detection algorithm seems to do weird things with ocean shore tiles
11:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> does that happen with canals, too?
12:04:25 <Pruple> afaia there is no "shore detection algorithm"
12:04:31 <petern> Probably not, canals can't be placed there.
12:04:33 <Pruple> we just assume that height 0 is ocean
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12:23:47 <Pruple> yes, but the point is that just for lols I tried coding the airship one zoom level down to make it twice as big
12:24:20 <Pruple> it's sort of cool but sort of not
12:24:38 <petern> Kinda looks normal heh
12:28:29 <Pruple> definitely worth keeping as a parameter option?
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12:39:57 <andythenorth> forced perspective? 😛
12:43:59 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we have the scrabble board already like 10 years ago?
12:47:33 <petern> That was ground tiles.
12:47:58 <Pruple> these ones have been around a couple of years
12:48:06 <Pruple> I'll get around to giving them proper graphics soon (tm)
12:48:17 <petern> Maybe that need... variants.
12:49:25 <FLHerne> Pruple: airship looks cool but not with the watership in frame
12:50:39 <FLHerne> maybe make those twice as big too :p
12:50:40 <petern> ChunkyNewMovementCode?
12:51:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (literally: divide vehicles in chunks, each having their own bounding box, but moving in sync)
12:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (this idea sounds familiar)
12:52:24 <FLHerne> to me it looks about the right size relative to most land stuff, too big relative to the factory, jarringly absurdly too big relative to the ship
12:53:01 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: What would the benefit be?
12:53:17 <petern> Sprite clipping/flickering.
12:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: bounding boxes need to be as small as possible, because overlapping bounding boxes are impossible to resolve
12:54:11 <FLHerne> What would make that better than making the single bounding-box bigger?
12:54:21 <FLHerne> I guess it makes the centre information more useful
12:54:46 <FLHerne> er, position or depth or whatever
12:54:53 <Pruple> FLHerne: it's also looks a bit big relative to the length of its route 🙂 Ships would also suffer from this if made larger.
12:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause> as soon as two bounding boxes overlap, you have lost. also, there are some escher-esque situations with non-overlapping boxes
12:55:12 <FLHerne> Pruple: eh, the same is true of most trains
12:55:19 <petern> Large maps should be sparse maps.
12:55:23 <FLHerne> relative to their route and also town size
12:55:38 <FLHerne> and no-one seems to care except me :p
12:55:40 <petern> Turn down the scale-by-mapsize stuff.
12:55:54 * FLHerne tends to play on large sparse maps as ^
12:56:28 <FLHerne> TaI helps for making physically larger towns that don't look stupid or produce an impractical number of passengers
12:56:38 <FLHerne> that Pikka guy had the right idea :p
12:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever happened to that guy :p
12:58:21 <petern> Town full of statues eh
12:58:44 <Eddi|zuHause> does that beat towns full of theaters?
13:06:47 <petern> Are they theatres or cinemas?
13:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure that was theatres
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13:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> ... it was the 1920s...
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13:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> on today's empirical measurement of "how much effort are you willing to spend on a pointless discussion?" i think i'm reaching my limit
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13:53:00 <andythenorth> Pruple: but the airship scales up with altitude, yes?
13:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "isometric" would be so much better if you drop the "iso"? :p
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14:21:29 <TallTyler> Pruple: Waiting on that was what inspired me to learn to code to make ITL Houses, so don’t feel too bad about the delay 🙂
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14:51:51 <petern> Speaking of which, time to open the forums.
14:55:15 <petern> Okay it's all about the crossings.
14:57:11 <petern> Well, the beta topic anyway.
14:59:47 <FLHerne> no chunky bevels? :-(
15:00:24 <petern> Reddit had the answer to that one.
15:02:15 <petern> Silly dictator developers 😄
15:06:28 <petern> Nobody really objecting to it all yet though, which is surprising 🙂
15:15:00 <petern> GETS has an offset problem...
15:15:57 <petern> (Also 1x and 2x sprites are quite blurry)
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15:31:36 <petern> Does that old TTDPatch variable still do its thing...
15:41:04 <petern> Should do. What’s the NML way to set that?
15:57:22 <EmperorJake> `traininfo_y_offset = 2;
15:57:22 <EmperorJake> train_width_32_px = 1;`
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15:58:11 <petern> Where does that have to be?
15:58:45 <EmperorJake> Anywhere in the nml I think, I just have it below the header somewhere
15:59:34 <petern> Hmm, the NML example is -2, not 2. Who knows 🙂
16:00:26 <petern> Updated comment in thread, thanks.
16:00:45 <EmperorJake> 2 is correct for my template but it'll vary depending on offsets I guess
16:16:16 <andythenorth> is that GETS variants? 😛
16:16:24 <andythenorth> 1 train, 3 lengths?
16:32:02 <andythenorth> are all forums just inherently grumpier than discord
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16:32:31 <wyndbain> petern: That can’t really be avoided from what I can tell unless you make specific 1x/2x sprites
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16:42:52 <petern> I don't know if GETS provides 1x/2x sprites, or if OpenTTD is downscaling them from 4x.
16:43:35 <petern> I supect they are provided, because OpenTTD will pick nearest neighbour, so is unlikely to be blurry.
16:47:05 <andythenorth> those GETS sprites are not very chunky
16:47:33 <petern> For some reason people like providing separate sprites for the purchase list, and then only provide 1x sprites there.
16:48:36 <petern> Well, I guess it's necessary when your engines are built up from a lot of smaller articulated parts.
16:48:42 <petern> But it doesn't need to be 1x only.
16:49:53 <petern> andythenorth: you should do 4x purchase list sprites, but keep everything chunky except the dice.
16:50:10 <andythenorth> or do 32bpp EZ dice
16:50:13 <andythenorth> but chunky trains
16:50:20 <petern> That is basically what I said.
16:51:11 <andythenorth> oh yes, I can't read
16:51:36 <andythenorth> also discord processes animated gifs to first frame only 😦
16:52:21 <andythenorth> we support SVG now?
16:54:49 <andythenorth> we need stickers 😛
16:54:51 <andythenorth> to go with the cats
17:13:42 <petern> > fatal: protocol error: bad pack header
17:15:34 <petern> Working now. How odd. GitHub problem I wonder.
17:19:15 <petern> I mean, thinking about it, it doesn't even need a maximum really.
17:20:13 <petern> Just a relic of when window sizes were less resizeable.
17:21:41 <LordAro> one thing i noticed during the jingle jam was that the order >> arrow was scaled poorly. they were on 12.2 though - but has that been fixed for 13 ?
17:24:19 <petern> It's a sprite, so even with truetype fonts it'll be at 1x/2x or 4x.
17:25:04 <petern> Did they use original, OpenGFX or zBase?
17:26:33 <petern> Hmm, position does seem to be messed up in 13
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17:28:50 <petern> The code is meant to vertically centre it relative to the line of text, but doesn't take account of offsets, so it's probablky that.
17:29:13 <petern> I've probably got a patch for it 🙂
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17:56:39 <wyndbain> All the voxels are shoved through GoRender by Timberwolf they provide downscaled 8bpp sprites
17:57:24 <wyndbain> Although idk if garlic has coded them in so it might be ottd downscaling then
17:57:45 <wyndbain> garlic_bread42: ur probably better at describing this than me
17:57:54 <petern> The purchase list sprites are 1x-only so they are explicitly provided there.
17:58:06 <petern> Could look nicer with 4x 🙂
17:58:53 <wyndbain> Yeah I think the ones in the depot menu are pulled from the actual trains
17:59:10 <petern> Depot list yes, build engine list, no.
17:59:31 <petern> Those are generally specially composed, otherwise you'll only get a small part of articulated engines.
17:59:54 <wyndbain> I ain’t good with coding
18:00:09 <petern> Well this is a drawing thing 🙂
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18:00:27 <wyndbain> I can do HTML and CSS that’s it
18:00:40 <wyndbain> I think it depends gorender
18:01:38 <wyndbain> The current Preset has to be change per loco I think
18:02:01 <wyndbain> Since they are all realistically sized
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18:43:15 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:08:11 <andythenorth> new water colours?
19:13:14 <andythenorth> need a better idea first 😛
19:14:08 <andythenorth> we have allowed TrueBrain to be quiet for a long time now
19:25:33 <andythenorth> maybe he's on irc 😛
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20:20:51 <petern> > hint: Updates were rejected because the tip of your current branch is behind
20:20:55 <petern> Apparently it was pushed
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20:30:15 <garlic_bread42> petern: sorry for that late response. GETS provied 1x Zoom sprites in 8bpp and 32bpp as well as 2x and 4x sprites in 32bpp. The purchase sprites are 1x-zoom sprites.
20:45:15 <petern> Happens when I add the first tab to a file that doesn't already have one.
20:46:11 <petern> I'll see what else fails before I push.
20:47:15 <petern> +311-120. That's a bit pants 😦
20:50:45 <Pruple> How do different dates work? Do all variants get new vehicle announcements / offers? What happens when the currently selected variant gets withdrawn?
20:59:32 <andythenorth> I can pull and build
20:59:39 <andythenorth> I should go out shopping more often 😛
21:00:32 <petern> Looks like just the tabs
21:01:10 <petern> Pruple: Yeah, that's a point.
21:01:34 <petern> At the moment it's all individual.
21:05:00 <andythenorth> also all variants can be special offer preview?
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21:12:15 <Pruple> andythenorth: perhaps an option to suppress the offer/news would be nice. You might want it for an upgrade variant, but not for a simple livery variation.
21:13:39 <Pruple> as for withdrawal, is there a way to sync the dates? Or if they're not synced, does it select a different variation when the currently selected variation gets withdrawn? Or does it all disappear if the current variation is withdrawn, despite other variations potentially still being available?
21:13:39 <andythenorth> if there's not enough money, the default variant still changes when trying to buy - probably fine?
21:19:49 <petern> Intentional in a way, it's currently not dependent on having built it, so testing the purchase will also change it.
21:20:41 <petern> Suppressing offer/news would probably be wanted though. Always or optional though?
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21:22:17 <Pruple> optional I think. I'm sure some people will want to use it for stat upgraded variants released many years after the original, which may warrant a new vehicle announcement
21:23:06 <petern> That could be a flag independent of variants I guess.
21:24:03 <petern> The build list ensures the primary variant is always displayed, even if it's not available, other than that everything else should be pretty normal.
21:24:29 <petern> Syncing reliability might be useful too
21:24:37 <andythenorth> I did a thing in autoreplace
21:24:39 <andythenorth> can replace self with self
21:25:18 <petern> I don't think you can but the button state is wrong.
21:25:54 <andythenorth> it won't assign the replacement
21:26:03 <andythenorth> is just clickable
21:27:02 <petern> Ah yes, because ^^^ "The * list ensure the primary variant is always displayed"
21:27:50 <petern> Okay, I can sort this 🙂
21:28:17 <petern> Interestingly it deselects it after a few days
21:29:29 <andythenorth> ok now I just need to refactor all of Horse
21:29:40 <petern> You were meant to be doing that instead of Scouting 🙂
21:30:12 <andythenorth> well now I have a build 😛
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21:46:13 <petern> Okay, annotations failed.
21:47:16 <petern> Signed/unsigned, even on Windows. Strange how my Windows build doesn't :/
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22:04:39 <andythenorth> so many variant possibilities 🙂
22:04:47 <andythenorth> reversed garratts?
22:15:02 <andythenorth> ok sleeping time
22:15:16 <andythenorth> such Horsey another day
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22:24:35 <reldred> someone just merge it
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