IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-09-20
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06:47:48 <andythenorth> that got accidentally inverted
06:47:59 <andythenorth> recent-ish PR, August
06:58:25 <andythenorth> mid-year release soon 😛
06:58:45 <andythenorth> last one was April 1st ish
06:59:10 <LordAro> not enough time for a full release
06:59:34 <andythenorth> there's a couple of grf fixes that I am motivated to see in release 😛
06:59:42 <andythenorth> already done and merged etc
07:08:24 <LordAro> unpicking the many PRs to work out which ones can be backported would be a pain
07:09:42 <petern> Although it looks like there's no savegame changes since 12.0.
07:09:58 <petern> Savegame bumps, rather.
07:10:02 <LordAro> mm, have been rather light on new features
07:10:14 <LordAro> we could merge dP's tree changes :)
07:10:49 <LordAro> reducing size of save files by 10-15% seems fairly nice to have
07:11:06 <petern> If it was functionally the same yes.
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07:13:07 <petern> Growth is based on tile position rather than randomisation, so you'll end up with visual patterns in how trees grow.
07:16:38 <petern> dP: Pretty clear in this animation.
07:17:02 <petern> Unless that's something else 🙂
07:17:26 <petern> Trees don't normally all die off, heh.
07:20:43 <petern> Oh you wouldn't see that on IRC 🙂
07:24:46 <andythenorth> trees do normally die off if you play long enough
07:25:07 <andythenorth> at least in temperate
07:25:37 <andythenorth> I'd have to run some games on fast forward 😛
07:25:43 <andythenorth> don't we have a jenkins for this stuff? 😛
07:26:26 <andythenorth> hmm minimap tree colour makes it hard to quickly paste proof
07:26:51 <andythenorth> 100 year game, these are the only trees left
07:29:05 <andythenorth> I wonder if my config is borked
07:29:12 <andythenorth> I tried various tree patches over the years
07:29:18 <andythenorth> extra_tree_placement = 1
07:29:25 <andythenorth> tree_per_64k_frames = 4194304
07:29:30 <andythenorth> tree_frame_burst = 4096
07:29:38 <andythenorth> tree_growth_rate = 0
07:29:53 <andythenorth> last one seems dubious
07:31:57 <petern> Default for `extra_tree_placement` is 2
07:32:15 <petern> 1 means they only grow in rainforests, for whatever reason.
07:35:13 <petern> So yes, when you turn off tree growth, that's expected.
07:36:14 <andythenorth> that will learn me 😛
07:40:04 <LordAro> maybe you should have a separate "firs testing" config :p
07:42:55 <andythenorth> so many patches tested 😛
07:43:02 <andythenorth> my config is probably 50% junk
07:43:06 <andythenorth> but I don't know which 50% 😛
07:43:36 <petern> I think I loaded JGR once, so mine is too now 😭
07:44:24 <andythenorth> I often have JGR, vanilla release and compiled vanilla running 😛
07:44:43 <andythenorth> such crossing bells 😛
07:48:00 <petern> Gosh everytime I load OpenGFX to test I'm horrified 🙂
07:49:13 <petern> Is that alignment normal or have I broke it?
07:55:06 <petern> Odd, it's misaligned in 12.2 for me too.
07:55:57 <LordAro> vaguely recent master for me
07:56:31 <petern> Okay, I turned off my truetype font and it's fine in 12.2.
08:06:24 <petern> There is an offset applied when mixing truetype and sprite fonts, but it's constant, so no idea.
08:27:00 <petern> Hmm, maybe I should exclude scss generated files from git. Silly conflicts.
08:35:03 <andythenorth> such generated 😛
08:54:44 <dP> petern: that's just a bug in a code that I haven't even PRed yet :p
08:56:21 <petern> Still a visible pattern.
08:57:01 <dP> on small map on fast forward
08:57:07 <dP> just needs a better hash function
08:57:20 <LordAro> i feel like there should be an appropriate hash function should be easy to come up with
08:57:30 <petern> Any hash function by tile will produce a visible pattern.
08:59:02 <petern> Maybe you can switch through different prime numbers. That would obviously alter behaviour so the timing/sequence would need careful choosing.
08:59:16 <LordAro> pattern does not necessarily equal visible pattern
09:01:28 <dP> imo it's good enough as it is, only noticeable on uber fast forward, not even 25x one
09:01:53 <dP> and I'll get into fine-tuning hash functions later anyway with procedural growth and stuff
09:02:58 <dP> tile loop already randomizes quite well so that counter is just a cherry on top
09:07:46 <petern> Would be useful to provide a side-by-side with the current behaviour.
09:15:07 <petern> Hmm, I should probably get a new saddle.
09:21:54 <LordAro> petern: any particular reason?
09:22:37 <petern> It's been cracked for a while (too long!)
09:25:39 <LordAro> how'd you manage that?
09:33:11 <petern> Riding a lot and being heavy I guess...
09:33:38 <petern> Oh god, adverts for "mild-hybrid" cars... Worst of all worlds...
09:35:12 <petern> I broke the saddle on my tourer too 🤷
09:37:42 <petern> Still "usable" but tend to sag in undesirable ways.
09:37:59 <petern> I've also got a B17 Narrow with a broken rail.
09:38:22 <petern> I did think about getting a kit to repair that but costs almost as much as a new one.
09:39:01 <dP> petern: guess which one is current :p
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09:45:44 <JustANortherner> petern: Awful things...
09:45:44 <JustANortherner> So glad our only car at home is a full electric
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10:08:14 <andythenorth> mild-hybrid is the stupid charge on braking / coasting only?
10:08:22 <andythenorth> with more weight and more shit to go wrong?
10:08:37 <Rubidium> wasn't 12.x branched in September of last year? So, if you wait a few days it's not within a year of the previous one. Although the previous one was within a year of the one before
10:22:44 <petern> andythenorth: same as "self-charging" but rebranded becuase dumb.
10:23:44 <LordAro> wait, is that what the self-charging hybrids are? i was assuming they were the "good" ones, i.e. actually charging the battery from running the engine
10:24:10 <petern> Eh, maybe there is a difference, they're all shit though.
10:25:28 <JustANortherner> My former employer had a fleet of PHEV (Plug-in Hybrids)... they were great for short journeys, but for anything longer were essentially normal cars with the odd bit of battery boost here and there
10:25:59 <andythenorth> mild recaptures otherwise lost energy on braking
10:25:59 <petern> Okay, mild are even worse than self-charging, which is saying something.
10:26:09 <andythenorth> they're 10% which is 10% better than not
10:26:13 <andythenorth> but not good enough
10:26:20 <JustANortherner> The PHEVs did also regenerate like, but yeah, not great
10:26:22 * andythenorth is still driving fossil fuels, so eh
10:26:40 <JustANortherner> Our all-electric car is awesome, and the 250-300 mile range is more than enough
10:26:41 <andythenorth> PHEV is for range anxiety for people who have families
10:27:01 <andythenorth> it's a sales thing, and also keeps dealer service fees alive
10:27:31 <petern> Cars are basically shit, even EVs.
10:27:57 <JustANortherner> petern: 100% this
10:28:07 <JustANortherner> I use public transport 99% of the time
10:28:23 <JustANortherner> It does help that I get free/heavily discounted (75%) off train travel
10:28:55 <JustANortherner> Which in a country like the UK where train travel is rather pricey, it's a massive bonus
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10:29:32 <JustANortherner> Personally, I add £10-15k value a year to my job thanks to that pass
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11:50:17 * kolcon1 thought that EVs run mainly on taxes
11:50:25 <reldred> I daily this ridiculous machine…
11:50:58 <reldred> *needs six electric hub motors and the 4.2L diesel six turned into a generator*
11:51:19 <andythenorth> get it on hydrogen
11:52:17 <reldred> Could fill the frame rails behind the cab with batteries
11:53:13 <reldred> Run just a single tank for diesel to run the engine as a generator, would be mint,
11:54:08 <Brickblock1> Why do you use the electric motors?
11:54:41 <reldred> Max torque at 0rpm bayberry
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11:55:36 <reldred> Dunno how edits work with irc, probably badly,
11:56:00 <LordAro> not at all, i believe
11:56:23 <reldred> Silent running on battery, diesel for long cross country driving and supplying power in remote locations,
11:56:40 <reldred> Six wheeled electric torque with hub motors
11:56:58 <JustANortherner> reldred: What on earth is that?
11:56:59 <reldred> Would be the dream, diesel electric train style drivetrain
11:57:25 <reldred> JustANortherner: A mistake
11:57:46 <JustANortherner> I like how you've driven over the stop block to park it...
11:58:06 <reldred> Look, it’s an obnoxious vehicle but I try not park it obnoxiously
11:58:34 <reldred> I’m not driving an F250 after all,
11:58:38 <JustANortherner> Bullbar over the pavement wouldn't be a good look here tbf
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11:59:08 <JustANortherner> Not much you can really do with that beast tho
11:59:15 <reldred> It was that or be dangerously obstructing traffic
11:59:24 <JustANortherner> Aye, fully appreciate that
11:59:38 <JustANortherner> Tbf tho, just obstruct traffic!
12:00:04 <reldred> This is an alternate sin I commit, just take two parks front to back. I’m usually always in the far back corners of car parks anyway.
12:01:00 <JustANortherner> This is the most acceptable way to me, yes
12:01:34 <JustANortherner> I've never understood stop blocks in parking spaces... just not a thing here in the UK
12:02:07 <reldred> Yeah it’s because otherwise we get idiots in Toyota camry’s doing the above because they just can’t fucking park
12:02:42 <JustANortherner> Now... do you pay for two parking spaces when you do this?
12:04:06 <reldred> Nah parking isn’t paid in most shopping malls
12:04:15 <reldred> Not in my area at least
12:04:36 <JustANortherner> Meanwhile, I got charged £6 to park all day in the centre of Matlock on Sunday!
12:04:52 <reldred> I usually wouldn’t go into paid parking areas,
12:05:18 <JustANortherner> The whole town is charged parking, sadly...
12:05:24 <reldred> Vehicle was never supposed to be a daily driver, I just made Various Mistakes and now it is…
12:05:33 <JustANortherner> It works I suppose!
12:18:46 <pickpacket> is it hard to make a NewGRF? I know it's a bit like asking "how long is a piece of string", but from your own experience, what were the pitfalls and difficulties?
12:19:57 <Brickblock1> NML is easy as long as you don't try stations but I would not recommend starting with nfo.
12:34:15 <andythenorth> making grf is easy for anyone with programming experience
12:34:30 <andythenorth> harder for people without programming experience, but possible
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12:47:04 <JGR> Even with programming experience, making nice graphics and good gameplay is difficult
12:57:06 <dP> yeah, you need 10+ years of C++ experience, some graphics design talent, and a game design degree 🤣
12:58:14 <andythenorth> or you can be me 😛
12:58:32 <andythenorth> I just like trains
12:58:32 <JGR> Hardly, but simply knowing how to program doesn't translate into producing good GRFs, they are different skill sets
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13:33:17 <TallTyler> LordAro: I have a bunch of PRs ready for review that add new features 😛
13:34:29 <TallTyler> Also multi-tile depots (the small PR which is a precursor to true extended depots) could potentially benefit from being tested in a beta release.
13:35:24 <TallTyler> I want extended depots badly enough that I’ve accidentally memorized the PR number (#8480) but I think it’s still marked as draft and would be gargantuan to review.
13:35:43 <TallTyler> So maybe the commit it depends on would be a good incremental test
13:37:33 <TallTyler> Also #9760 looks like a nice feature
13:37:58 <supermop_toil> TallTyler: making my locomotive shed dreams come true, 12 years on
13:40:30 <TallTyler> It’s not my PR, I’m just cheerleading for it 🙂
13:41:43 <TallTyler> Most of my PRs are upstreamed JGRPP features, bugfixes for problems I’ve never had, or stupid features like a horn button 😛
13:59:07 <andythenorth> using a python compile to generate python files which are ingested to a python compile
14:00:02 <LordAro> i recommend introducing awk into the pipeline
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17:07:08 <dP> hm, my windows open outside the screen in rtl, what can I be missing?
17:07:21 <dP> I just copied default league table and it doesn't do that
17:16:45 <petern> Just add another screen to the right.
17:34:40 <dP> petern: have one, doesn't help :p
17:36:49 <supermop_toil> dP: one more screen
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17:54:18 <supermop_toil> open a roll of 120 or 110 film?
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18:36:34 <andythenorth> increase object limit then? 🙂
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18:40:40 <frosch> how would a sort-objects property work?
18:40:49 <frosch> just an integer as sort key?
18:40:54 <frosch> or as silly as for vehicles?
18:57:47 <andythenorth> vehicles is fine if you have a compile
18:57:59 <andythenorth> I just render out the order I've set in python
18:59:03 <andythenorth> what's the worst we could do? 😛
19:09:39 <andythenorth> looks like my magic object purchase renderer can't do base set sprites for buildings 😛
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19:22:12 <andythenorth> oh it doesn't even try 🙂
19:23:39 <supermop_toil> minimalist sawmill
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20:02:17 <NekoMaster> andythenorth: Saw mill but its a weekend and only hand tools are used and everyone cleans up the place on fridays
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