IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2022-09-06
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13:14:59 <peter1138> Nice, changing zoom settings while a news window with a viewport is open is funky.
13:16:29 <petern> Other windows handle viewports fine so just something missing in this one I guess 😄
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13:28:58 <glx[d]> maybe you could look at #9996, I think it's somehow related
13:32:32 <petern> Don't think so, that's just about making sure the right zoom level is used when hi dpi is switched.
13:33:06 <petern> I guess it's related as zooming is involve d;)
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13:35:05 <glx[d]> hmm maybe the reinit part of #9994 then
13:37:01 <glx[d]> oh all the viewport stuff is done in macos driver
13:37:33 <glx[d]> but I guess that should be done when manually changing zoom level too
13:38:38 <glx[d]> (didn't check the current code though)
13:50:26 <petern> Should be simple, it's already handled in other cases. I'll fiddle later.
13:55:27 <petern> Hmm, I wonder how the truetype system can be set up to use a specific font for certain glyphs.
13:55:36 <glx[d]> maybe it's the missing OnResize()
13:56:29 <petern> Some hand coded glyphs 🙂
13:57:44 <petern> I did draw these previously using a GUI tool, but I prefered to understand how SVG fonts work directly.
13:57:53 <glx[d]> vehicles, town and industy seem to do stuff with viewport in OnResize()
14:00:11 <glx[d]> indeed a search for `GetWidget<NWidgetViewport>` shows a noticeable diff in news_gui.cpp
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15:35:56 <Bouke> glx[d]: There are some parts of 9994 that could be made generic, I think. Especially the resizing of windows / adjusting zoom levels.
15:38:56 <andythenorth> SVG font, but looks like pixels? 😛
16:26:47 <petern> andythenorth: minor curves in places but otherwise... yeah.
16:27:26 <petern> As a non-drawer, writing it in code works 😉
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17:30:22 <petern> andythenorth: Do arrows look better pointy or blunt?
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18:10:29 <andythenorth> I would need a picture 😛
18:15:37 <LordAro> use your imagination!
18:19:06 <TrueBrain> is what txt2img did
18:21:00 <andythenorth> software tender: 55.55% (recurring 5) complete
18:21:19 <andythenorth> can Dall-E fill in tenders?
18:21:51 <petern> The unpinned and pinned icons are... different pins.
18:25:51 <andythenorth> think I did the bug
18:26:04 <andythenorth> did I do the map dropper pin follow thing?
18:26:10 <andythenorth> or did someone fix that?
18:28:07 <petern> It's raining, so it's not like I'm wasting a bike ride evening.
18:28:50 <andythenorth> hmm, can a non-base-set grf replace the ' glyph in original base set?
18:29:00 <andythenorth> it's a single RHS smart-quote
18:29:11 <andythenorth> but that means it can't be used for quote
18:29:54 <andythenorth> vector reimplementation of the entire pixel font or go home 😛
18:30:05 <andythenorth> maybe I should learn how that's done
18:30:08 <andythenorth> never made a font
18:30:43 <petern> unicode smart-quote works
18:31:29 <petern> andythenorth: Tempting but icons are more useful, and I am at home...
18:32:03 <andythenorth> I am currently using opengfx because I have to make FIRS screenshots that don't infringe rights 😛
18:32:08 <andythenorth> I don't normally
18:32:19 <andythenorth> not the finest element of opengrf
18:32:56 <petern> 3x5 fonts are hard, but... that's bad.
18:33:11 <andythenorth> It's possibly the worst non-arty font I've ever seen 🙂
18:33:38 <andythenorth> the e has no open space
18:33:45 <andythenorth> the ascenders merge with descenders on the line above
18:34:04 <andythenorth> usually I see this
18:34:20 <petern> Yeah, lowercase is... humm.
18:34:25 <andythenorth> who is the OpenGFX maintainer?
18:34:51 <LordAro> andythenorth: pretty sure it's you
18:35:14 <petern> Works well but it's 3x7, not 3x5.
18:35:37 <petern> Press ESCAPE to KILL YOURSELF
18:36:51 <andythenorth> one of them had a level editor
18:36:56 <andythenorth> "my first modding experience"
18:37:05 <petern> That might be the "Please Select:" screen shot first...
18:37:38 <petern> Also 3x7, but not quite as good legibility.
18:38:08 <andythenorth> compiles print to spritesheet with it
18:38:44 <petern> In OpenTTD I just use TTF (unless I'm testing layout)
18:39:41 <petern> Genuine 8 bit graphics instead of "minecraft is blocky that must be 8 bit lol"
18:41:41 <LordAro> petern: don't you know? 3d graphics are always better than "2d"
18:44:04 <frosch> andythenorth: see, everyone wants to get rid of sprite fonts, and only use opentype fonts 🙂
18:45:17 <petern> Hmm, the clear input icon is not simply monochrome.
18:45:53 <petern> It has some minimal antialiasing, but of course that gets zoomed in too 😄
18:48:34 <petern> "Autorenew failed on Bus #6 Vehicle is not available" well, that's kinda confusing to me as there's a difference between Engine and Vehicle...
18:53:40 <andythenorth> there would be advantages to a proper pixel font 😛
18:54:21 <andythenorth> life is adapting to change 😛
18:54:30 <andythenorth> but I'm not sure I want to let go of the pixels
18:55:22 <petern> In my branch ScaleGUITrad() supports non-integer scaling 😄
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19:41:37 <andythenorth> maybe I should compare some Open Font pixel fonts to the original base set sprite font
19:41:56 <andythenorth> there are only so many ways to fit pixels in 3x7 or so
19:42:33 <andythenorth> I'm unclear what the copyright situation would be if I modified an openly licensed font to have the feeling of the TTD font
19:43:02 <andythenorth> obvs. the 'openly licensed' side is fine
19:45:19 <andythenorth> hmm the actual typeface cannot be copyrighted in US law
19:45:20 <petern> I have that change in my branch too, hehe
19:45:36 <andythenorth> the actual software font is copyrighted as a computer programme
19:46:08 <andythenorth> typefaces can also be explicitly trademarked under a name (like Palatino), or more rarely they can be patented
19:47:31 <andythenorth> "Bitmapped fonts are considered to be computerized representations of a typeface (and are not protected by copyright law)." allegedly according to a law blog, for the US
19:48:15 <andythenorth> UK has specific copyright protection for typefaces under a 1988 act
19:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i would think they can be considered artwork
19:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but that depends if the pixels were placed manually by a person, or as output of a program
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19:52:08 <andythenorth> I'm not going to armchair lawyer that one much more
19:52:23 <andythenorth> I started thinking about 'is it even a typeface, or is it sprites' etc
19:52:25 <andythenorth> but that's silly
19:52:54 <andythenorth> I think if I modified an open pixel font to roughly mimic TTD font, and released it personally
19:52:59 <andythenorth> there would be zero problems
19:53:29 <petern> There would be a problem ... it's still a pixel font!
19:53:54 <andythenorth> do I need to clarify that I mean a TrueType or something 😛
19:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i see no way that a true type font can be that clear on that resolution
19:58:19 <petern> Are there any other LTR/RTL-different icons other than the resize handle?
19:58:58 <andythenorth> the problem is that this is rendering in photoshop, and I don't know if other things would render differently
19:59:43 <petern> That pencil icon for renaming...
19:59:47 <LordAro> is it me, or is GH being very slow at actually displaying comments this evening?
20:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: all of that looks horrible, and doesn't show the tiny font resolution at all.
20:00:58 <andythenorth> not sure how to resolve that
20:01:01 <andythenorth> the 8px font is 8px
20:01:12 <andythenorth> oh the screenshot is hdpi
20:01:51 <andythenorth> also an aliased pixel font - looking like this is the goal no?
20:02:09 <andythenorth> I think it lacks proper kerning but eh
20:02:24 <petern> Not really, there's no need for it to be pixelated.
20:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not convinced
20:03:42 <andythenorth> Hmm Silkscreen is all caps
20:04:12 <andythenorth> Simon Foster did a pretty remarkable job
20:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> lower case, accents, non-latin languages
20:05:25 <andythenorth> pixel kanji fonts are a thing of course
20:05:37 * andythenorth forgot who invented all the arcade games :P
20:08:11 <Bouke> Does anyone know why OpenTTD speeds up while I hold SHIFT, even though the OTTD window doesn't have focus? (this is on macOS)
20:09:42 <Bouke> Bouke: Oh well it's an undocumented shortcut? https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Hotkeys lists TAB, but doesn't work. SHIFT does indeed "press" the forward button. But I don't think it should be doing that if the window doesn't have focus.
20:09:59 <frosch> Bouke: it's depends on release/debug build
20:10:01 <petern> Shift does it in a debug build.
20:10:08 <frosch> in debug build "shift" does fast-forward
20:10:35 <frosch> because someone 15 years ago wanted to use alt+tab to switch between ottd and debugger on their single screen setup, and cost-estimation was considered less important
20:11:56 <Bouke> Oh wow, that's a nice "feature"!
20:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard that justification before
20:13:15 <frosch> i never use alt+tab, i wouldn't mind the shift behavior to vanish 🙂
20:13:34 <frosch> eddi: i think there is a source code comment about it
20:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it shouldn't be impossible to make the ff-button not press when ALT is active
20:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i use alt-tab all the time, and games do all kind of weird things with that
20:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> like some games forget to un-press alt when going back in
20:15:25 <petern> Hmm, working with diagonals, grids become a pain 😄
20:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so buttons are treated as ALT when it's not actually pressed, and you need to press it again
20:18:54 <glx[d]> FF still has the issue of being an xor
20:20:10 <glx[d]> and you may be stuck in FF if autosave happens while you release the key (or something like that)
20:20:46 <glx[d]> but it's handle at very low level
20:20:48 <Bouke> yeah I noticed something like that as well, but couldn't reproduce. Probably happens a lot with the default autosave of every month I guess.
20:22:03 <glx[d]> andy complains about it at least once a year 🙂
20:22:19 <andythenorth> more like once a month
20:22:31 <andythenorth> it's killing me when testing industry animations
20:22:35 <andythenorth> or vehicle angles
20:22:44 <Eddi|zuHause> my config file still has a non-existing setting of "weekly" for autosave
20:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> from way back when i used one of those daylength patches
20:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like -1 to me :p
20:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (but with 31 bit instead of 32)
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20:48:38 <petern> Ah yes, WWT_EMPTY does not have any padding.
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