IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-11-16
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00:51:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] odisseus commented on pull request #9002: Change cargo age to have more effect on cargo payment. https://git.io/J138s
00:56:07 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Wahazar opened issue #9700: [Fix]: supress vehicle age warnings if vehicle is stopped by player https://git.io/J134c
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08:44:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on pull request #9002: Change cargo age to have more effect on cargo payment. https://git.io/J1GND
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17:04:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #9701: Codechange: Remove CargoSpec::multipliertowngrowth which is unused https://git.io/J1CUs
17:21:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #9701: Codechange: Remove CargoSpec::multipliertowngrowth which is unused https://git.io/J1CUs
17:33:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn https://git.io/JXig1
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18:35:28 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I do not get industry tiles .. I first need to claim a number via 08 .. but that always wants to copy an existing industry tile? I just want to start a new one :P
18:38:49 <nielsm> yes, a lot of things in newgrf are based on "copy existing (base) item and customise it"
18:39:25 <nielsm> which is one of the reasons the original vehicles can't actually be moved to become newgrf definitions: all newgrf's depend on them existing in the base game
18:39:41 <TrueBrain> hmm .. so what is a safe industry tile to copy :P
18:39:56 <nielsm> I think 0 or 1 is something from the coal mine
18:40:14 <TrueBrain> well, guess I overwrite that anyway
18:40:28 <nielsm> if you just want a basic land industry tile without cargo accepts or animations
18:40:32 <TrueBrain> tile acceptance is the more annoying one
18:41:36 <TrueBrain> that will work, I guess
18:41:51 <nielsm> I think 0 is a pile of coal
18:42:15 <TrueBrain> no, those are a bit later .. it is one of the buildings I think
18:42:21 <TrueBrain> but it is fine for now, I guess :D
18:42:58 <TrueBrain> okay, at least that works .. w00p :D
18:55:35 <nielsm> the hard part of newgrf industries is (initially) the art
18:55:51 <nielsm> ofc if you want to do advanced production rules that can get fun too
18:56:09 <TrueBrain> depends .. if you try to write binary NewGRF, that is pretty hard too :D :D :D
18:59:13 <TrueBrain> okay .. chained an action 0 to an action 2 to an action 3 .. I am getting the hang of this :D
19:00:51 <TrueBrain> now for my own realsprite ..
19:20:34 <supermop_work> what are you making TrueBrain ?
19:20:50 <TrueBrain> things so other people can make things!
19:21:48 <supermop_work> for some reason i can't open that here at the office
19:22:48 <TrueBrain> funny, it is a white page here too :P
19:23:23 <TrueBrain> no clue what broke .. will have to investigate :D
19:23:28 <TrueBrain> was working yesterday .. lol
19:25:11 <dP> internet seems kinda broken today
19:31:08 <TrueBrain> supermop_work: try it again :)
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19:47:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] frosch123 opened pull request #109: Change: migrate OpenTTD user Dukeman to GitHub user HollyDuke https://git.io/J1CM9
19:48:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #9701: Codechange: Remove CargoSpec::multipliertowngrowth which is unused https://git.io/J1CDv
19:49:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain approved pull request #109: Change: migrate OpenTTD user Dukeman to GitHub user HollyDuke https://git.io/J1CD3
19:49:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/BaNaNaS] TrueBrain merged pull request #109: Change: migrate OpenTTD user Dukeman to GitHub user HollyDuke https://git.io/J1CM9
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19:55:54 <supermop_work> TrueBrain: looks neat
19:56:13 <supermop_work> i was out getting coffee just got back to desk
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19:59:31 <TrueBrain> hmm .. NewGRF specs were "fine" to see what I need to write, till realsprites
19:59:41 <TrueBrain> and NML is also .. a bit .. "abstracted", to really understand :D
19:59:54 <glx> that's the main goal of NML
19:59:57 <TrueBrain> normally I open the OpenTTD source to figure out what happens exactly ..
20:00:03 <TrueBrain> but that too is not easy for this case :P
20:00:34 <frosch123> did you succeed with encoding?
20:01:34 <TrueBrain> just trying to feed a realsprite into the system :P
20:02:20 <TrueBrain> my action 0, 2 and 3 works
20:02:28 <frosch123> next is action1 then
20:02:30 <TrueBrain> now added an action 1 .. but it is a bit of a puzzle how it actual works :)
20:03:03 <TrueBrain> so far I wrote \x09\x01\x01 for action 1 .. and after that a "realsprite" (0xfd) referencing spritenum 0
20:03:17 <TrueBrain> I think I did that correctly .. at least, it now shows a blue ?
20:03:24 <TrueBrain> next is to actually add the sprite I guess :P
20:05:48 <michi_cc> Writing a container format 1 grf file might be easier for the first try as you don't have to worry about the separate sections.
20:07:02 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: already a bit balls deep in v2 :P That would have been a good idea earlier :D
20:07:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: absolutely forgot, tnx :)
20:07:17 <TrueBrain> we have documentation in so many places, it is not trackable for me :P
20:07:35 <TrueBrain> owh, right, sprite-section offset
20:07:39 <TrueBrain> that bullshit .. eeuuhhhh
20:09:27 <TrueBrain> yeah, did find that file
20:09:32 <TrueBrain> the issue is how it writes sprites
20:09:37 <TrueBrain> it jumps to the base-class sometimes
20:09:43 <TrueBrain> and it is very difficult to see if that actually does something
20:09:49 <TrueBrain> most of the time the answer is: no, it doesn't do anything :P
20:13:53 <glx> there's only one annoying thing for me in nfo realsprite, the order of parameters : x, y, height, length, ...
20:16:27 <TrueBrain> any of you happen to have a small sprite lz77 encoded at hand? Or a way I can get one easily? Just to test if everything else is working :P
20:18:04 <frosch123> open existing grf in hexeditor?
20:18:35 <TrueBrain> hard to find the right offset :D
20:18:45 <frosch123> it's in the header :p
20:19:06 <glx> size is the first dword no ?
20:19:45 <glx> maybe after the magic thing
20:21:55 <TrueBrain> as the size is relative
20:22:01 <TrueBrain> and after that you need to find the size of the sprite
20:22:53 <frosch123> just copy all sprites
20:23:19 <frosch123> concatenate your nfo section with the graphics section of some other grf
20:29:22 <TrueBrain> :( My DNS server is down, I AM SORRY
20:29:48 <LordAro> your dns server does hex conversions?
20:30:04 <TrueBrain> you clearly missed a conversation a while ago :P
20:30:26 <TrueBrain> DHCP server, I think
20:30:28 <TrueBrain> can't even remember :P
20:31:12 <TrueBrain> a while ago a dude was gatekeeping that I used DorpsGek to do some calculations, claiming I should just know that, and blabla
20:31:20 <TrueBrain> he didn't survive long
20:31:47 <TrueBrain> we have been referencing that often since :P
20:32:02 <TrueBrain> I simply assumed your noob also referenced that, but here we are :D
20:35:24 <TrueBrain> "The data sections is termindated by a WORD (format 1) / DWORD (format 2) of value 0."
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20:37:00 <TrueBrain> took me a bit to notice I cannot start sprite-num at 0 :P
20:37:03 <TrueBrain> NML even has a lovely "rant" about it :D
20:42:16 <TrueBrain> bah, I think I did everything correct, yet .. hmm .. guess I need to get the GRF out and run it with grfcodec :)
20:48:14 <TrueBrain> okay, sprite aligner now shows the sprite
20:48:17 <TrueBrain> just not showing up on the tile :P
20:51:23 <frosch123> probably the action2 missing some flags
20:52:19 <TrueBrain> okay .. next thing I do not understand: I only have 256 set-ids
20:52:30 <TrueBrain> can I use a single set-id for all sprites of an industry?
20:52:42 <TrueBrain> or do I need to load them all in an individual?
20:52:53 <frosch123> you can reuse setids
20:53:22 <frosch123> usually its: action1 with sprites for first industry, action2..3 for first industry, action1 with sprites for second industry, ...
20:53:32 <TrueBrain> owh, those aren't global
20:53:46 <TrueBrain> not always clear what survives how long :D
20:53:49 <frosch123> you can also share spritesets between industries by not redefining them
20:54:11 <glx> and an action 2 chain can use the same id
20:54:29 <TrueBrain> so the information need to be correct when referencing
20:54:32 <TrueBrain> the rest is: what-ever!
20:54:42 <TrueBrain> so an industry can only have 256 sprites, basically :P
20:55:07 <frosch123> no, you can have 64k sprites per spritelayout
20:55:37 <frosch123> 256 sets of 256 sprites each, redefineable for every action2
20:55:55 <TrueBrain> and even more, I guess, if you use all 256 tile-ids :P
20:56:15 <frosch123> by default each spriteset is indexed by construction stage (up to 4 sprites per spriteset), but you can change that
20:56:16 <glx> well you can modify a spritelayout dynamically anyway
20:56:49 <peter1138> TrueBrain, just google it
20:56:55 <frosch123> oh, wait, the number of sprites per spriteset is a word, so you can have 24M :p
20:57:59 <TrueBrain> frosch123: "For houses and industry tiles, this should be between 1 and 4 and specifies the number of different construction stages. Sprites after the first four are always ignored. See also action 2 and 3. "
20:58:04 <TrueBrain> that suggests that not being the case? :)
20:58:57 <frosch123> it's the default :)
20:59:18 <TrueBrain> "Sprites after the first four are always ignored." gave me the impression you cannot have more than 4 in a sprite-set
21:00:08 <TrueBrain> "if there are four or more sprites, the first four will be used for the four construction stages. Sprites after the first four are always ignored."
21:00:11 <TrueBrain> it also marks it there?
21:00:16 <glx> by default the game uses only first 4, but you can tell it to use different ones
21:00:44 <TrueBrain> that link gives the wrong impression of what you linked
21:00:53 <TrueBrain> I fucking hate that of browsers
21:00:59 <frosch123> "Add offset to sprite, disable default usage of construction stage or railtype-offset"
21:01:24 <TrueBrain> okay, I would not have read in that what you just mentioned :D
21:01:39 <TrueBrain> what does it even mean .. "add offset to sprite" :P
21:02:15 <frosch123> for industries it means: layout specifies a spriteset and a register for the sprite inside the set
21:02:24 <frosch123> you can compute the value of the register at runtime
21:02:44 <frosch123> dynamically pick sprites depending on date, phase of the moon, etc
21:02:52 <TrueBrain> what is a good approach .. a sprite-set per sprite for industry tiles, or a single sprite-set for a single industry?
21:03:55 <frosch123> start with the former
21:03:59 <frosch123> one sprite per spriteset
21:04:15 <frosch123> multiple sprites per spriteset is meant, if you show different sprites in the same position
21:04:25 <frosch123> construction stage, animation, cargo amount, ...
21:04:44 <TrueBrain> so biggest industry TrueGRF can handle will be 16x16, basically, for now :)
21:04:50 <TrueBrain> pretty sure that is fine :P
21:05:00 <frosch123> isn't that the limit anyway?
21:05:32 <frosch123> i think industries and objects are limited to 16x16 in the tile layout
21:05:42 <TrueBrain> okay ... guess next step is to figure out how to read a PNG in Rust, make it 8bpp, and lz77 the hell out of it :P
21:06:10 <TrueBrain> and figure out why I am using a Legacy palette ..
21:06:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #9702: [Bug]: It is not possible to transfer vehicles sharing orders between groups (using Ctrl+drag doesn't work) https://git.io/J1CpR
21:06:20 <frosch123> every evening you end on the same "next thing" :p
21:06:31 <TrueBrain> frosch123: :D I know right ;)
21:06:37 <TrueBrain> well, made some big steps today, so I am not complaining
21:06:47 <frosch123> for palette, you need an action14
21:15:28 <TrueBrain> tnx .. now to get it to work :P Lol
21:16:09 <frosch123> the nfo is in the spec, put that in front of your action8
21:17:42 <TrueBrain> before action8 was my last mistake, tnx :)
21:18:17 <frosch123> i am sure it's written somewhere on that page :)
21:18:52 <TrueBrain> yeah, reading is not my strongest skill :P
21:19:09 <TrueBrain> its funny, I am building this whole thing fully experimental
21:19:09 <TrueBrain> that is, I have no debug output
21:19:12 <TrueBrain> so .. just hoping the bytes align :P
21:19:48 <glx> oh usually the important info is hidden somewhere in a totally different place
21:20:24 <TrueBrain> well, it is there: "The action is processed while scanning for GRFs and their action 8 descriptions. This scanning stops when encountering an action 8, thus action 14 needs to appear earlier in the GRF. "
21:30:24 <andythenorth> 16x16 is huge and won't locate on most maps without special measures :P
21:30:56 <andythenorth> no debug output = grf coding :P
21:37:29 <TrueBrain> or you just finish that PR :P
21:39:20 <frosch123> it's just 7 years out of date :)
21:39:40 <andythenorth> did anything change since then? :)
21:39:46 * andythenorth doesn't see many svn commits
21:40:00 <frosch123> yeah, we stopped svn 3 years ago :p
21:40:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn https://git.io/JXig1
21:40:49 <andythenorth> we did what now? :o
21:40:51 <frosch123> anyway, i stopped it because noone would be able to use it anyway
21:41:11 <andythenorth> I would keep forgetting about it
21:41:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on issue #9702: [Bug]: It is not possible to transfer vehicles sharing orders between groups (using Ctrl+drag doesn't work) https://git.io/J1CpR
21:44:39 <TrueBrain> wow, compiling PNG support is slow as fuck :P
21:44:43 <TrueBrain> from 5s compiles to 15s compile :P
21:46:00 <TrueBrain> well, I also get JPEG support etc
21:46:05 <TrueBrain> not sure I can strip that away :P
21:46:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #9702: [Bug]: It is not possible to transfer vehicles sharing orders between groups (using Ctrl+drag doesn't work) https://git.io/J1CpR
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21:56:36 <andythenorth> hmm these bug reports
21:56:45 <andythenorth> I sense petrol has met a discarded match
21:57:14 <andythenorth> if this was my project I'd close them now for tone
21:57:24 <andythenorth> however some people are better than me :P
22:04:57 <TrueBrain> right .. time for some lz77 .. eeuuuhhhh
22:05:50 <TrueBrain> the question is, is it normal lz77
22:05:52 <TrueBrain> or some special version :P
22:06:04 <TrueBrain> deflate::lz77 exists
22:06:07 <TrueBrain> but seems to do other things
22:06:49 <frosch123> pretty sure is no regular lz77
22:07:44 <TrueBrain> means I need to pay attention :P
22:08:38 <frosch123> so far everyone copied the grfcodec algorithm 1:1
22:08:57 <TrueBrain> bit difficult in Rust :P
22:09:01 <frosch123> though nml source is easier to read
22:10:32 <TrueBrain> yeah, just typing over the C variant from NML
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22:15:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on issue #9702: [Bug]: It is not possible to transfer vehicles sharing orders between groups (using Ctrl+drag doesn't work) https://git.io/J1CpR
22:17:01 <LordAro> i mean, there's an easy way to find out
22:19:18 <TrueBrain> I love it when people can keep coming back to the same thing over and over and over and over and over again :P
22:19:56 <frosch123> didn't you already give a last warning?
22:22:13 <andythenorth> yeah that's over
22:22:25 <andythenorth> it's needlessly hostile
22:22:29 <frosch123> yay, cppcon videos are being uploaded now
22:22:44 <frosch123> LordAro: TrueBrain: strawpoll?
22:23:36 <TrueBrain> I don't disagree; and the honours is all LordAro .. he has been wanting to this for a few weeks now :P
22:30:14 <frosch123> the effects of blocking are funny. not that it matters here, but it blocks users forking the repositories, and stops counting their past contributions
22:31:46 <frosch123> they do not even get notifications
22:32:06 <TrueBrain> right, okay, first attempt on lz77 is a bit of a failure :P
22:38:58 <TrueBrain> meh; and I can't find what would be wrong :P
22:39:37 <TrueBrain> owh, dimensions maybe
22:41:45 <TrueBrain> nothing of any sanity
22:41:49 <TrueBrain> but at least it aint broken :P
22:44:28 <TrueBrain> (I am outputting the "r" channel as if it the palette index :P)
22:45:25 <TrueBrain> okay, there is still something fishy ...
22:46:59 <frosch123> yeah, if the source image uses a palette, then using the r channel would still resemble some kind of image
22:47:06 <frosch123> this is just noise :)
22:48:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #9701: Codechange: Remove CargoSpec::multipliertowngrowth which is unused https://git.io/J1CUs
22:48:37 <LordAro> ooh, has Rau inevitably fucked up again?
22:49:10 <frosch123> the floor is yours :) just make sure to not state any reason, or you will have to defend it tomorrow on reddit :p
22:53:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9702: [Bug]: It is not possible to transfer vehicles sharing orders between groups (using Ctrl+drag doesn't work) https://git.io/J1CpR
22:53:46 <TrueBrain> but picking up a torch is SO MUCH MORE FUN :P
22:54:10 <TrueBrain> okay .. changed my lz77 to "fake" compression
22:54:53 <TrueBrain> guess what I mixed up glx? :D
22:54:57 <TrueBrain> and you even mentioned it ffs :P
22:55:33 <TrueBrain> yeah ... height / width / left / top
22:55:36 <TrueBrain> it is just idiotic :P
22:55:47 <TrueBrain> LordAro: gratz! Even I never did that, I think ... :P
22:56:07 <LordAro> i await the fallout with a large amount of popcorn
22:56:26 <LordAro> might want to keep an eye on the server list... bet it was him with the anti-Tyler server the other week too...
22:57:28 <TrueBrain> that is the downside of bans .. there will be extra work involved :P
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22:57:57 <TrueBrain> okay, my lz77 does work
22:58:06 <TrueBrain> code can be made a lot more rustic, but what-ever
22:58:08 <TrueBrain> for now, this will do
22:58:35 <TrueBrain> copilot helped writing some Rust
23:02:42 * LordAro downloads 1.11.2 to check old behaviour
23:03:28 <frosch123> with svn i used to have compiled checkouts per branch, git is bad :p
23:04:30 <TrueBrain> I have a co-worker who still does that with git :P
23:04:34 <LordAro> nothing stopping you doing that
23:04:53 <LordAro> cmake -B 1.11-build && make -C 1.11-build
23:04:59 <LordAro> if anything it's easier now
23:05:01 <TrueBrain> okay, two things left to do .. support more than 1 sprite (lol), and make colours works .. but other than that, I have the NewGRF stuff working :D
23:06:12 <TrueBrain> for the first I need to figure out how to make an action-chain .. as in, I know how to make a chain, but to make it efficient-ish for now
23:06:19 <TrueBrain> the second is just a big matrix with RGB -> indeux
23:06:51 <frosch123> is 'matrix' a rust term?
23:08:20 <dP> that sounds like a very big "matrix" ;)
23:09:03 <dP> oh, you're just storing palette
23:09:03 <TrueBrain> ugh, I really should clean up the Rust code .. becomes a bit hard to read :P
23:09:10 <dP> I thought you were doing conversion
23:09:13 <TrueBrain> write_pseudo_sprite(output, &[b"\x02\x09", &[industry.id as u8], b"\x00", b"\xe6\x07\x00\x00", b"\x00\x00\x00\x80", b"\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00"]);
23:09:16 <TrueBrain> like, what does it even say ..
23:11:48 <TrueBrain> at least everything has a ground sprite :P
23:32:26 <LordAro> #9802 - if the vehicles are in a shared order list, holding ctrl *does* move all members of that shared order list to the group
23:32:32 <LordAro> but that's not changed in 10 years
23:33:15 <frosch123> i always hold ctrl the whole time while dragging
23:33:31 <frosch123> i read that issue as, they only hold ctrl shortly during mousedown
23:33:48 <LordAro> holding ctrl before starting dragging does seem to cause some weirdness
23:33:53 <LordAro> doesn't seem to start dragging
23:34:33 <frosch123> then i assume that's different :)
23:35:07 <LordAro> but having tested 1.11... i can't find any difference in behaviour
23:36:27 <frosch123> it works in 1.8, which is the newest release i have a binary of
23:36:33 <frosch123> you can hold ctrl, then start dragging
23:37:16 <LordAro> yeah, holding ctrl before dragging just selects the current group
23:37:22 <LordAro> which i *think* is an intentional change
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23:40:30 <frosch123> it's a weird feature, only makes sense in the "all group"
23:41:08 <LordAro> i think we should be able to improve that..
23:41:41 <frosch123> hmm, code says it should show the orders window
23:41:47 <frosch123> it doesn't do that for me
23:41:58 <LordAro> yeah, i was trying to get it do something too :D
23:43:29 <LordAro> it definitely did work at one point, i remember testing it...
23:44:26 <frosch123> before that it did both
23:44:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #9702: [Bug]: It is not possible to transfer vehicles sharing orders between groups (using Ctrl+drag doesn't work) https://git.io/J1CpR
23:44:32 <frosch123> select group and start dragging
23:45:35 <frosch123> oh, it only does the order window thing when that other grouping thingie is active
23:45:42 <frosch123> i misread the code :)
23:46:09 <frosch123> i assumed something like: first click -> select group, second click -> show orders
23:46:47 <frosch123> so my suggestion would be: click -> select group and start dragging, double click -> show orders
23:47:12 <frosch123> no idea why the "show orders" only applies to the grouped view
23:47:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #9702: [Bug]: It is not possible to transfer vehicles sharing orders between groups (using Ctrl+drag doesn't work) https://git.io/J1CpR
23:47:44 <LordAro> TrueBrain: just say there was a paint explosion
23:47:57 <LordAro> oh, #9702, not #9802 :D
23:48:01 <TrueBrain> did 25% of the palette .. it is a bit boring job :P
23:48:10 <TrueBrain> but the method seems to work fine
23:50:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #9702: [Bug]: It is not possible to transfer vehicles sharing orders between groups (using Ctrl+drag doesn't work) https://git.io/J1CpR
23:50:15 *** gelignite has quit IRC (Quit: Stay safe!)
23:51:16 <LordAro> oh hey, Rau also provided this information (ctrl after drag) 2 hours ago
23:51:31 <LordAro> just not in a constructive way
23:51:46 <TrueBrain> I had such high hopes for him :(
23:52:00 * dP was joking about ctrl-doubleclick...
23:52:04 <TrueBrain> but if you think the world is against you .. it is a high mountain to climb :P
23:52:20 <LordAro> no post on /r/openttd yet :p
23:52:35 <frosch123> it's late in russia
23:52:41 <frosch123> did you send a notification?
23:59:36 <frosch123> overloading modified-clicks with opening windows if probably overloaded
23:59:45 <frosch123> there should be a separate button per row to open the order window
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