IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-11-10
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02:38:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buttercup5 commented on pull request #9639: Feature: Ctrl-click to remove fully autoreplaced vehicles from list https://git.io/JX6aF
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05:12:55 <while> I'm also trying to figure out if there's a way to call/invoke a C routine/function from a Squirrel routine within my AI
05:15:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] odisseus commented on pull request #9002: Change cargo age to have more effect on cargo payment. https://git.io/JXik5
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06:26:25 <LordAro> while: there is no way to call native functions (beyond what is defined in the API, ofc)
06:36:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 started discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» butto https://git.io/JXig1
06:47:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] iTKerry commented on issue #9686: [Suggestion]: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» button https://git.io/JXKbC
06:51:59 <LordAro> there's no response i can make to that that's worth anyone's time, is there?
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08:13:02 <Xaroth> Well your response is a bit.. crass
08:16:44 <Xaroth> I mean, somebody just put in what appears to be a good amount of time writing up a suggestion, in their non-native language, and you dismiss it with a 'nah'
08:17:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9686: [Suggestion]: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» button https://git.io/JXKbC
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08:25:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on issue #9686: [Suggestion]: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» button https://git.io/JXKbC
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08:37:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #9686: [Suggestion]: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» button https://git.io/JXKbC
08:42:21 <TrueBrain> Nice he admits he knew it was the wrong place .. I love it that I do not have to guess peoples intention :)
08:59:53 <LordAro> Xaroth: you're not wrong
09:00:45 <LordAro> Rau has previous form for trying to trample over people they disagree with, and I couldn't be bothered dealing with it further
09:01:01 <LordAro> (especially when they definitely had chance to voice opinions in the original signal gui PR)
09:02:40 <LordAro> also, I suspect they encourage brigading of issues where they're not getting their own way
09:02:51 <LordAro> (though have no proof of this)
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09:33:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn https://git.io/JXig1
09:33:31 * LordAro grabs some popcorn for himself
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09:57:29 <Xaroth> LordAro: you weren't wrong either, it's just that people who don't know the story behind it will only see one side of the coin :)
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10:26:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge merged pull request #9684: Change: Explicitly specify SHA1 for legacy code signing on Windows https://git.io/JXol9
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11:39:45 * andythenorth doesn't reply to those
11:40:04 <andythenorth> the world struggles with "largely we don't pay any attention to suggestions, why would we?"
11:45:26 <Timberwolf> The world struggles with, "people who've spend many years maintaining and extending a game have a good track record of spotting the difference between a widespread issue and a vocal minority"
11:46:55 <LordAro> andythenorth: that is... a thing
11:50:46 <andythenorth> I mean I have literally spent 20 years now building products for democracy
11:51:05 <andythenorth> but undifferentiated feedback or 'suggestions' is really just not useful for getting anything done
11:51:12 <andythenorth> nor for democratic accountability :P
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11:51:25 <andythenorth> fortunately we don't have to be democratically accountable here
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12:00:00 <Timberwolf> Clearly we need lobbying.
12:00:33 <Timberwolf> Offer TrueBrain €150,000/year for 3 hours per month "consulting", then the signal dialog can be whatever you want it to be.
12:04:32 <LordAro> i misread "consulting" as "counselling"
12:05:18 <andythenorth> 'cash for questions'
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12:21:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn https://git.io/JXig1
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12:31:19 <dP> oh, #9474 was never merged, no wonder I didn't recall seeing it
12:57:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Rau117 commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn https://git.io/JXig1
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13:09:15 <LordAro> i can see the default signal type being removed being annoying
13:10:54 <LordAro> it resetting for each game session could be annoying
13:13:11 <dP> yeah, I think I even mentioned that in initial pr
13:16:00 <LordAro> i'd have no issues getting rid of it from the settings GUI though
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17:42:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: How is the tram-2-rail DLC l proposed going? Is it still just an idea, is it being programmed or is it already uploaded, ready to apply?
17:42:57 <andythenorth> it is nearly ready to apply
17:43:08 <andythenorth> just the final 100% to do
17:43:35 <andythenorth> but the main thing is that the idea exists, and ideas are the valuable part
17:43:42 * andythenorth may be telling some lies
17:44:14 <frosch123> on sunday i thought it was a regular 13yo
17:44:30 <frosch123> but with that 3-day follow up, i am not sure :p
17:57:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on discussion #9687: Suggestion: Change behaviour of the «expand signal menu» btn https://git.io/JXig1
18:52:10 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:06:32 <frosch123> at first i thought that was intentional, but the remaining 6 minutes are normal
19:07:15 <frosch123> (2:40 is my personal highlight)
19:07:40 <nielsm> "ASMR Gaming" -- blasts openmsx with a kinda bad soundfont
19:08:07 <frosch123> true, music is very loud, but you can mute it
19:08:38 <LordAro> default windows soundfont, i think
19:09:19 <LordAro> you've definitely spent more time with soundfonts than i have :p
19:11:07 <nielsm> tbh I rarely listen to windows' built in synth nowadays, after getting some old hardware GM synths
19:22:19 <frosch123> is that from the mobile version? or unrelated?
19:22:47 <nielsm> apart from the mobile version probably making broomhall revisit the compositions
19:23:32 <LordAro> featured in the mobile versions, but i'm pretty sure this predates it
19:24:44 <frosch123> hmm, video title says 2014, forum section says 2013, video description says "for the 2014 re-release"
19:24:52 <frosch123> people can't agree on years :)
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20:03:04 * andythenorth having adventures in low-code / no-code
20:03:10 <andythenorth> it involves writing code, in a GUI
20:04:01 <frosch123> it's a success if your customers use it. it's a disaster if you have to use it or give support
20:04:17 <nielsm> ah yes the "if you aren't using the keyboard to type textual code then it isn't code" school of thought?
20:05:26 <andythenorth> I was hoping it would be rather better than it is
20:05:27 <frosch123> nielsm: it's important if "those who make the buy decision" are not "those who use it"
20:05:34 <nielsm> store some data, aggregate some arrays, do some maths, then send an email. cool.
20:05:52 <andythenorth> it eliminates everything to do with hosting production code
20:05:54 <frosch123> managers/buyers are very happy if they *think* they understand something
20:06:02 <andythenorth> it is *not* no-code
20:06:10 <andythenorth> it is not even low-code
20:06:16 <andythenorth> it's just low boilerplate
20:06:20 <andythenorth> and 'no deps hassles'
20:06:47 <andythenorth> it's both better and worse than I expected
20:10:18 <andythenorth> actually using this requires fairly substantial engineering skill
20:10:44 <andythenorth> just not the kind that spends all day dealing with 'oh the deps are broken again, wtf is it this time?'
20:11:11 <frosch123> the problem is: using it requires more skill than you think when just looking at it :)
20:11:28 <frosch123> that's why it's cool if you can sell it, but do not have to use it
20:12:15 <andythenorth> 'cool' is definitely not the word I have been using today :)
20:13:04 <frosch123> so the customer was older than 35 :p
20:13:49 <andythenorth> the customer is sitting very close to me
20:13:59 <andythenorth> and looks just like me
20:15:19 <frosch123> can your kids use it?
20:17:13 <andythenorth> it's probably quite similar to Scratch
20:18:21 <andythenorth> editable irc when? :P
20:20:16 <frosch123> irc is logged in realtime into underground storage, and replicated in a nuclear-safe way. everything you say on irc is useable in court in original, non-modified form
20:20:38 <andythenorth> original internet
20:20:44 <andythenorth> survives the death of civilisation
20:22:01 <frosch123> in one of the many "the timemachine" movies, the protagonist finds some remnants of "the internet"
20:22:31 <frosch123> and the bot recognized them as: aren't you the guy who inquired about the existence of time travel 2000 years ago?
20:23:18 <Timberwolf> We use one of those "no-code" platforms, that in reality is quite code-intensive, but it saves time because it's basically a big pile of the sort of things you'd spend ages boilerplating like "make an editable reflection of a database table in the browser"
20:24:01 <Timberwolf> I suspect some of the time it saves is just because there's no real engineering process like testing or code review.
20:24:22 * andythenorth hopes for a world where we don't have discussions like 'well we could write a python app and run it on a jenkins job'
20:24:25 <andythenorth> but then we don't
20:24:27 <Timberwolf> Also it ends up costing a bunch of time because the people who make it keep adding features and ignoring all the bits they've broken.
20:24:31 <andythenorth> because bigger fish to fry
20:24:58 <frosch123> do you generate python code from the drawn graph?
20:25:23 <Timberwolf> But, still addictively useful for "we just need an internal user to be able to configure this database table with some basic guard rails in place" things.
20:25:43 <andythenorth> I have been using a web CMS for years where you can just write raw python in a web GUI
20:26:11 <andythenorth> it has many problems, but it is incredibly powerful and I can write internal tools without needing engineers
20:26:33 <andythenorth> but it doesn't play well in the world of remote APIs and webhooks
20:46:07 * andythenorth considers building grf publishing pipeline in integromat :P
20:46:14 <andythenorth> can we have bananas support pls? :P
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20:51:07 <LordAro> msys 'cd ${CI_PROJECT_DIR_MSYS}/langkit/langkit/templates/python_api && cp module_py.mako module_py.makoclean && sed \"/LoadLibrary/i list(os.add_dll_directory(path) for path in os.environ[\\\"PATH\\\"].split(os.path.pathsep) if os.path.exists(path))\" module_py.makoclean > module_py.mako && git diff'
20:51:17 <LordAro> i think this might be the single worst line of code/script i've ever written
20:54:12 <frosch123> it has no swagger/openapi thingie, just plain json
20:56:07 <andythenorth> hmm such things :D
20:57:56 <Wolf01> I need a pipeline which programs for me
21:02:51 <andythenorth> I have been seeking that for 20 years
21:02:57 <andythenorth> I somewhat call it 'employees'
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