IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-10-18
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07:09:37 <LordAro> anyone know what rau117 is talking about? alternatice semaphore sprites?
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08:17:07 <andythenorth> OP is non-native English speaker, ask for clarification? :)
08:21:32 <LordAro> rau117 is also a thoroughly unpleasant individual, going by their reddit posts
08:21:39 <LordAro> much more deserving of a ban that zorg
08:21:58 <LordAro> but yes, i shall ask for clarification
08:23:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9617: Feature: Button to toggle showing advanced signal types https://git.io/JKSJc
08:32:14 <andythenorth> sometimes it's lost in translation, but eh yes
08:32:31 <andythenorth> currently I am glad I don't have a reddit account
08:33:01 <andythenorth> I used up all my patience somewhere :P
08:33:13 <andythenorth> maybe in grinding though the 900 flyspray tickets :P
08:33:50 <andythenorth> also taking public feedback on the internet is rather close to my day job :P
08:34:01 <andythenorth> but the difference is nobody elected us and we're not accountable
08:43:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #9619: Fix #9595: Always use plural forms of cargo for subsidy strings https://git.io/JK6wh
08:43:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #9595: [Bug]: Localized plural strings required in certain instances https://git.io/J2uxb
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09:08:53 <orudge> [21:29:12] <TrueBrain> owh, right, orudge ! MSStore needs an update :D <-- yep, being done. I have partial automation for it, but not sure it can be fully automated yet
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11:18:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #9616: Feature: Railways can be created "through" bridges, tunnels, stations… https://git.io/JK9aE
11:23:29 <dP> there was also one on steam...
11:33:03 <dP> though mb it's normal for city controller, no idea how it's supposed to work...
11:39:35 <LordAro> dP: i've seen that growth issue before when the compatibility scripts are missing
11:39:50 <LordAro> growth rate constants (or scaling?) got changed at some point
11:40:01 <dP> script just builds shitton of houses
11:45:24 <dP> at the very least, it does the same in 1.11.2
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12:24:25 <dP> ok, can confirm I think, something got broken in 12.0
12:24:40 <dP> something about GS saveload I guess
12:31:37 <dP> oh lol, my local test server is now publically accesible and some people are playing on it...
12:31:56 <dP> more than on the actual citymania server running the same thingg xD
12:34:36 <dP> hm... now I wonder what's the easiest way to make it inaccessible without making it private...
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12:37:10 <glx> so it's online but not listed
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12:39:29 <dP> I mean without changing game settings
12:39:44 <dP> kinda want them to be the same as on the actual server
12:40:03 <glx> you can do it in the console
12:40:09 <dP> for testing and as they're gonna be copied back and forth anyway
12:40:35 <dP> in the console I'll have to do that on every run...
12:42:11 <glx> maybe we should add support for different private.cfg, like there is for different openttd.cfg
12:44:44 <dP> well, I'm not using private.cfg at all, so won't help...
12:44:58 <dP> I'm looking for some router config solution or mb /etc/hosts
12:45:41 <dP> I was fine before since my pc is behind nat and I just didn't port forward xD
12:46:59 <glx> oh you can use environment variable
12:50:05 <glx> set OTTD_COORDINATOR_CS to localhost and it should fail to advertise
12:54:16 <dP> yeah, but I'll have to change it only for server processes I guess
12:56:59 <glx> you can do it on the command line "OTTD_COORDINATOR_CS=localhost openttd -D"
12:58:17 <dP> it's started by server manager so I'll have to patch it through somehow
12:58:28 <dP> doable ofc, I just wish there was an easier solution
12:58:47 <glx> well we simplified network for average users ;)
12:59:48 <glx> but if you want to use the same config file for all, I don't see another way
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15:58:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] glx22 commented on issue #62: STR_NEWS_SUBSIDY_WITHDRAWN_SERVICE - order of {STRING} https://git.io/JK75C
16:22:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] YouYouTheBoxx opened issue #9623: [Bug]: Vsync makes the game feels laggy and smoother & 2x Speed smooth game so much!! https://git.io/JK5KX
16:24:25 <peter1138> laggy AND smoother?
16:24:53 <LordAro> some language issues somewhere, i think
16:25:14 <glx> I think it's just the effect of the game running at 33fps whatever display refresh is
16:25:30 <LordAro> i did notice the same when i was fiddling with vsync yesterday though - framerate window consistently displays 58fps, not 60
16:25:41 <LordAro> no such issues with vsync disabled
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16:43:39 <FLHerne> "And it's the case even when a vehicle goes 0.5x it's speed to match real 1x speed; it looks so much smoother when moving" sounds like it could be the thing in 4x zoom where vehicles jump forward several pixels per tick?
16:43:59 <FLHerne> unless that got fixed and I missed it
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17:18:12 <TrueBrain> ha! The "aborts" I saw were indeed people hitting refresh way too often :D Nice!
17:28:08 <glx> but it should be solved now
17:28:17 <TrueBrain> it is, which the stats show clearly :P
17:32:02 * andythenorth watching Apple stream for Macbook Pro
17:32:26 <andythenorth> enjoy a black cut out in every game, video, menu bar
17:32:37 <andythenorth> Apple, innovating in new ways to fuck up since 1978
17:32:44 <LordAro> oh god, the macbook too now?
17:33:57 <andythenorth> notch notch notch
17:34:11 <andythenorth> ugh they've bought the ports back too
17:34:51 <andythenorth> stupid SD card slot just gathering dust
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17:46:46 <TrueBrain> okay, what I thought was a "memory leak", just seems to be the amount of active servers to track .. that is the say, the memory increase greatly reduced during the day
17:46:49 <glx> oh steam may need to be updated too
17:47:00 <TrueBrain> 5% in an hour, now 1% in 5 hours
17:47:03 <glx> it still says 10.9 as minimal version
17:48:48 <glx> hey of course not that many beta servers compared to now stable release
17:49:14 <TrueBrain> pushed update to Steam
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17:55:10 <TrueBrain> you also found the "auto generate" button :D
17:55:27 <glx> yeah, but I fixed the text ;)
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18:29:51 <frosch123> in the steam release post, there is 1 comment abuot the signals, but 6 people asking to disable the moving title screen
18:30:08 <TrueBrain> yeah, the zoomed-in part especially is pretty annoying
18:30:58 <frosch123> i only watched the yt videos, i guess i should watch the real thing
18:32:11 <frosch123> ah, i guess the problem is, if you actually want to focus on clicking something in the gui
18:32:21 <frosch123> the moving background is irritating
18:32:36 <TrueBrain> yeah, and it also not smooth
18:33:05 <frosch123> if i watch the game in the background it is fine, since my eyes lock on some vehicle
18:33:13 <frosch123> it's just weird when i want to lock on the gui
18:33:31 <frosch123> i also have smooth viewport srolling enabled
18:33:37 <frosch123> let's see whether that changes stuff
18:34:27 <nielsm> the viewport panning in the title screen isn't affected by the smooth scrolling setting
18:34:39 <frosch123> yeah, i see no difference
18:34:59 <nielsm> but maybe there is a timer you can increase the frequency of
18:35:37 <frosch123> the non-smoothness does not bother me much
18:35:57 <frosch123> but i guess for 13.0 it should be restricted to jumping to new views
18:36:00 <frosch123> instead of scrolling
18:36:33 <nielsm> well, the author of the title screen actually posted an updated version in the submission topic, after voting had started
18:36:38 <nielsm> but I didn't compare it
18:36:58 <frosch123> that's not the issue :)
18:37:03 <TrueBrain> I still think if it wouldn't zoom in, it would be less of an issue too :)
18:37:16 <nielsm> we can probably do some adjustments of the camera work to make it less busy to look at
18:37:17 <frosch123> the problem is, i only watched the yt videos, and only watched the background
18:37:28 <frosch123> the problem is when you want to interact with the gui
18:37:39 <TrueBrain> so many the background a bit fuzzy, you say?
18:38:17 <frosch123> some people have issues with reading a book in a driving car
18:38:17 <nielsm> like, replace zoomed-in pans with zoomed-out stills
18:38:33 <frosch123> focussing on something in the front while the rest is moving can be hard
18:38:59 <frosch123> changing the view is fine, panning is the issue
18:41:08 <frosch123> don't judge interfaces by yt videos :p
18:41:19 <andythenorth> the background moving is cool AF but gave me vertigo in about 8 seconds
18:41:40 <andythenorth> reminds me of when I worked in factories doing assembly on constantly moving conveyor belts
18:41:50 <frosch123> still, it's hillarious that noone on reddit complained about it :p
18:41:58 <andythenorth> reddit is too busy being power user
18:42:01 <andythenorth> no time for that
18:42:10 <TrueBrain> I still think Steam has better quality feedback
18:42:14 <andythenorth> intro screen is for noobs only
18:42:17 <TrueBrain> which surprised me a lot the first time I realised that
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18:42:32 <andythenorth> Reddit is the natural home of dunning-kruger
18:42:47 <andythenorth> I should get an account there
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18:48:20 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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18:53:16 <TrueBrain> I love the feedback on the GOG forums
18:53:25 <TrueBrain> it is just the perfect spot between compliments and bitching about stupid things
18:54:36 <TrueBrain> "but there are no threads there"
18:54:47 <frosch123> the 7 posts in 2 topics?
19:01:08 <frosch123> it's more active than simuscape
19:07:28 <glx> moving background during newgrf scan is very nice, even if the intro game is not running at that time
19:08:06 <frosch123> newgrf scan does not take so long in release builds
19:08:51 <glx> oh it does if it's the first start and nothing of the 1300+ newgrf is cached by the OS yet
19:09:16 <glx> still way faster than debug build
19:13:14 <frosch123> what is the actual reason the titlegame does not run during newgrf scan?
19:17:09 <glx> and the scan needs to happen in main thread to not break anything I think
19:19:52 <frosch123> ah found it... ScanNewGRFFiles is indeed called inside GameLoop
19:20:03 <frosch123> so it runs inside the gamethread
19:20:14 <frosch123> took some time to follow that control flow :p
19:20:44 <glx> yeah but easier to follow than some other parts of the source
19:34:56 <frosch123> looks like running the titlegame during newgrf scan is less of an issue, it does not access grfconfigs
19:35:18 <frosch123> but if the online content window is opened, and refreshes stuff, that's a problem :p
19:35:53 <frosch123> putting the newgrf scan into a thread requires some work
19:36:13 <frosch123> but it's not completely out of reach
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19:36:43 <TrueBrain> so many things we can split away in their own thread or outside of the gameloop :P
19:36:46 <TrueBrain> GET TO IT ALREADY! :D
19:37:38 <frosch123> i wonder how filesystems perform under load of multiple threads
19:38:04 <frosch123> is newgrf scan faster if we scan directories/tars/newgrf in parallel
19:38:12 <frosch123> or is everything waiting for the filesystem?
19:38:41 <TrueBrain> I would guess it depends on your medium
19:38:47 <TrueBrain> but honestly, the correct answer is neither .. but: cache!
19:39:02 <dwfreed> if it's all random i/o, like stats and such, you might see increased performance by adding a second thread to further saturate the drive
19:39:38 <glx> just a guess, but scanning files inside a tar should probably be faster (only one open file in this case)
19:40:02 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i am pretty sure that reading a single file of the size of all newgrf would be faster, than resolving 1400 paths to disks on file
19:40:13 <frosch123> i blame the filesystem more than the disk :p
19:40:34 <TrueBrain> still: cache the results!
19:40:38 <glx> blame windows, it's the worse when reading files
19:40:58 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so an extra thread that just reads the files to prefetch them into cache? :p
19:41:08 <frosch123> (while discarding all read content)
19:41:24 <glx> but once a file has been open it's cached in free ram
19:41:48 <TrueBrain> I don't care how you use cache, just: CACHE IT!
19:42:27 <TrueBrain> its the universal solution to everything
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20:51:46 * andythenorth caches TrueBrain
20:52:05 <andythenorth> then we have invalidation problems
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21:09:08 <peter1138> What if you thread him?
21:10:37 <andythenorth> then we n + 1 problems
21:11:11 <andythenorth> lol @ mac users still complaining they can't buy separate ram sticks for their laptop
21:11:26 * andythenorth should have an internet break
21:16:43 * andythenorth wonders why the integrated CPU-GPU-RAM package can't have some nice SO-DIMM slots attached to it
21:16:48 <andythenorth> I mean...why not
21:19:47 <peter1138> Oh, my memory. They were 30 pin.
21:21:24 <peter1138> EDO wasn't until 72 pin SIMMs.
21:21:57 <glx> ah right 72 pins SIMM and 144 pins SO-DIMM
21:24:31 * andythenorth remembers there were rules about combining
21:24:52 <andythenorth> weren't there some sockets that could have half or full length sticks?
21:25:00 <andythenorth> and sticks could be single or double sided
21:26:45 <peter1138> There was never length changes.
21:29:39 <peter1138> In the old days I had some 30 pin SIPs lyihng around too.
21:32:15 <andythenorth> maybe I am thinking of half length PCI slots
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21:34:22 <peter1138> ISA yes, PCI not really (PCI-X could accept PCI but was rare outside of high end servers), AGP no, and of course PCI-E is designed for it.
21:39:03 <peter1138> Glad I know all this useless shite.
21:39:51 <frosch123> my brother had VLB slots
21:40:12 <frosch123> i don't think there were longer ones
21:40:32 <andythenorth> glad I didn't keep all the computer crap I bought :)
21:40:43 <andythenorth> we had a whole draw of SO-DIMMs for a bit
21:41:12 <andythenorth> so much ethernet cable
21:41:27 <andythenorth> so many external HDs
21:41:58 <andythenorth> we had a 2 fire safes with USB and firewire hard drives in
21:42:10 <andythenorth> got rid of all that crap :)
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21:44:58 <andythenorth> oof is it bedtime already?
21:45:08 * andythenorth was making pixels
21:49:07 <andythenorth> they're out and out bullying people, no github comments for them
21:50:14 <frosch123> you are kind of late :p
21:51:04 <andythenorth> I wasn't keeping up :P
21:51:27 <andythenorth> I saw their comments this morning, I thought they'd get bored and give up eventually
21:51:49 <andythenorth> elite players, who can't somehow cope with changing a setting
21:53:00 <frosch123> just enjoy how the serverlist is dominated by non-dedicated servers :)
21:53:19 <LordAro> ooh, i can block them AND send them a notification about it
21:53:39 <LordAro> i've reported several of their reddit comments too, not sure how actively moderated that sub is though
21:53:53 <LordAro> block them from the OTTD GH org*
21:55:03 <andythenorth> bullying in other contexts
21:55:44 * andythenorth bored of elements of this community, they can find another train game to play
21:55:51 <andythenorth> this is our shed, it's a nice shed
21:55:53 <peter1138> have i done it wrong
21:56:34 <andythenorth> what did you done?
21:56:44 <LordAro> peter1138: you're allowed to swear on the internet
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21:57:41 <peter1138> that's just polite swearing hah
22:01:54 * LordAro has done it wrong as well
22:02:20 <LordAro> vitriol is a good word
22:03:14 <dP> I'm kinda perplexed that despite all that bitching none of those bastards were arsed to at least slap a like on twoway_eol pr :/
22:04:42 <frosch123> haha, if you know about twoway_eol, then you know how to change a setting
22:05:04 <andythenorth> I can't get past "but new players just need to learn by doing it wrong, more signals are better"
22:05:12 <andythenorth> but "there are too many settings, I can't work it out"
22:05:58 <frosch123> stop assuming comments to be rational :p
22:06:06 <andythenorth> mine often aren't :)
22:06:15 <andythenorth> meta meta game, picking holes in them :P
22:06:22 <andythenorth> mine are barely coherent
22:14:36 <LordAro> peter1138: not to be that guy, but you do have a "OpenTTD Team" next to your name
22:14:45 <LordAro> it's not a great look to be calling people names
22:15:01 <LordAro> however much they may deserve it
22:17:16 <peter1138> Not a great look for who?
22:18:10 <LordAro> context is not readily apparent
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22:21:37 <peter1138> Oh look, someone has a server up called "We hate n....rs"
22:23:33 <LordAro> TrueBrain: are you still awake?
22:23:44 <dP> did you just notice racism in openttd?
22:23:58 <dP> I've lost count to how many players I banned for swastikas and shit
22:24:29 <LordAro> TrueBrain: and if not, please write down somewhere the process for IP banning
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22:25:44 <TrueBrain> Is this what we have become? Ugggghhhhhhhhh
22:26:13 <TrueBrain> You need AWS access to apply an IP ban .. as it is not suppose to be a thing that happens :p
22:27:15 <TrueBrain> The GC had a blacklist (with 1 entry) .. we could make that dynamic, I guess ..
22:30:58 <TrueBrain> server will disappear in a few minutes; but I am not going to police server-names. So if this keeps on being an issue, we will need another approach to this :)
22:32:13 <glx> being forced to analyse server names is sad
22:32:43 <andythenorth> do we end up playing word list games? :|
22:33:18 <LordAro> how about making STUN/TURN servers unadvertised?
22:33:29 <TrueBrain> this last server is a direct-ip server
22:33:48 <glx> in the end we'll have GC check the server name and just don't publish it
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22:34:10 <TrueBrain> as long as I do not have to maintain that list ... :P
22:34:50 <peter1138> "The only way to prevent offensive user input is to prevent all user input."
22:36:09 * andythenorth had to deal with the scunthorpe problem in flash games
22:36:26 <TrueBrain> we had a good run ;)
22:36:55 <glx> yeah the only issue we used to have with server names is the spam
22:37:13 <glx> and the fight to be on top of the list
22:37:34 <dP> pretty sure that's not the first server with n-word :p
22:37:46 <dP> just nobody bothered to check
22:38:04 <andythenorth> specific to swastikas, when I was a kid it did not have the same shock value
22:38:27 <andythenorth> we used to draw swastikas on toy cars and stuff, for army
22:38:50 <andythenorth> now it's like entry-level trigger-the-libs thing
22:38:52 <TrueBrain> ignoring the weird server-names, having a list of non-sense servernames on top is a bit annoying .. I wonder if we can make it better
22:39:05 <dwfreed> eliminate server names
22:39:14 <dwfreed> each server gets an ID from GC
22:39:19 <TrueBrain> in-game locked servers are sorted lower than open ones
22:39:27 <TrueBrain> guess we can do that on the web too
22:39:36 <TrueBrain> dwfreed: that is already the case ;)
22:39:42 <TrueBrain> (the latter part, not the first, ofc)
22:39:54 <dwfreed> then only surface the ID :)
22:40:17 <TrueBrain> that would instantly kill the public servers :P
22:40:44 <TrueBrain> I think changing the order of servers on the website already goes a long way :)
22:42:31 <TrueBrain> but I first need to get some zzzzz
22:43:06 <dP> when I was a kid I remember some random passerby scolded us for drawing something that apparently was some nazi symbol we didn't even know about
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23:39:41 <peter1138> Wait, why did my code work first time?
23:49:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #9624: Debug: Game does not compile when RANDOM_DEBUG or ENABLE_NETWORK_SYNC_EVERY_FRAME are defined https://git.io/J6vJV
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