IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-07-01
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02:19:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #9017: Feature: play easier together with friends from behind home routers https://git.io/JcnWn
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10:43:51 <Samu> i can't figure out the code for buoys
10:44:03 <Samu> i'm trying to make my ai use buoy orders
10:44:31 <Samu> i already place buoys correctly and in order on an array of tiles
10:44:54 <Samu> however, the ship depot is in the middle of the route
10:45:03 <peter1138> That's a lot of matrix users gone...
10:45:53 <Samu> the ship starts from the ship depot and has to go to the correct buoys going towards it's first dock
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10:48:55 <Samu> depot > buoys segment 1 > first dock > reverse buoys segment 1 > depot > reverse buoys segment 2 > second dock > buoys segment 2
10:53:13 <Samu> i realized i can't use distance manhattan
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10:57:22 <Samu> the problem is knowing where to start at the correct index of the array of buoys and where to end
10:58:06 <Samu> the array doesn't include the ship depot
11:00:39 <peter1138> When your Excel export goes up to column FK there might be a few too many fields...
11:01:28 <peter1138> Why not include it?
11:07:26 <Samu> i guess i should include ship depot
11:07:54 <Samu> its not a real buoy though
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12:22:47 <TrueBrain> LordAro: pictures or it didn't happen
12:27:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9017: Feature: play easier together with friends from behind home routers https://git.io/JcCcr
12:28:24 <TrueBrain> ugh, more mobile-app spam in info@ mailbox
12:28:39 <TrueBrain> and a voicemail! But I leave that to orudge :)
12:32:30 <TrueBrain> right, 2 relative large PRs to review .. maybe I should stop producing PRs for a bit :P
12:32:49 <TrueBrain> we need people to review >:D
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12:42:42 <TrueBrain> peter1138: they are back ...
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12:44:55 <TrueBrain> 3 hour downtime on the bridge :P
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13:26:08 <TrueBrain> I rather have it well done ;)
13:47:13 <Samu> got buoys working now! so happy
13:47:31 <Samu> the trick was indeed to add the ship depot in buoy array
13:48:50 <Samu> now my next issue is... how to send ships to depot
13:49:39 <Samu> because openttd's own 'send to depot' sucks
13:49:48 <Samu> i have to babysit the ship
13:53:16 <Samu> so i have a ship happily doing its business, following orders, following buoys, and suddenly I decide i have to sell the ship, just like that, at any moment of its schedule
13:53:46 <Samu> i can't use SendVehicleToDepot
13:54:49 <Samu> i have to unshare orders
13:55:04 <Samu> i have to delete conditional orders
13:55:21 <Samu> i have to delete go to dock orders probably
13:55:38 <Samu> all that remains are buoy orders and service at depot
13:56:24 <Samu> turn the service to depot as go to depot and stop there
14:34:49 <Samu> unsharing orders doesn't retain the order list
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14:37:55 <LordAro> that feels like a bug
14:39:20 <Samu> orders are retained for players
14:39:32 <Samu> not for ais, but just in case im wrong, let me test this
14:41:36 <Samu> I wish there was an option to retain or not retain orders
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15:12:38 <Samu> wow, seems easy to implement, at first glance
15:16:22 <Samu> or maybe not even needed
15:17:02 <Samu> but retain a copy of the orders
15:23:56 <Samu> uh, how do i "Get another vehicle that share orders with this vehicle." via current AI API
15:40:53 <LordAro> if nothing else, sounds like documentation could be improved
16:06:10 <glx> if you want to unshare but keep orders, I think you can ResolveOrderPosition(), get a vehicle sharing orders, UnshareOrders(), CopyOrders() from the other vehicle, and finally SkipToOrder()
16:11:33 <Samu> im testing whether copy orders overwrite share orders
16:12:09 <Samu> the same way it does in gui
16:19:38 <glx> copy should do the same as unsharing in gui
16:21:13 <glx> the same command is used in OrdersWindow::OrderClick_StopSharing() and ScriptOrder::CopyOrders()
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16:59:05 <Samu> i should consider buoy re-use
16:59:31 <Samu> multiple routes sharing some of the buoys
16:59:58 <Samu> but then i won't be able to close routes and delete their buoys
17:02:12 <Samu> new big test! 2048x2048 map, 5000 ships hopefully
17:03:28 <glx> for each buoy you can keep a list of routes
17:04:32 <glx> or, if you can search in all routes if the buoy is used when closing a route
17:04:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9378: Codechange: convert news C-strings to std::string https://git.io/JnCpH
17:12:52 <Samu> but if there's multiple AIs running, i can't know
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17:38:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JcWco
17:51:22 <glx> <Samu> but if there's multiple AIs running, i can't know <-- on buoy deletion, there's a check for usage by other companies, disallowing deletion
17:56:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JcW8u
17:56:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JcW8P
18:00:10 <glx> so with AIVehicleList_Station() you can easily check if you still use the buoy, then try to delete it to find if others are using it
18:10:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JcWRG
18:11:06 <TrueBrain> nielsm: it would be fun if people would try that :D
18:11:22 <TrueBrain> think the main question is: can we write comments in those ini-files ..
18:11:37 <nielsm> it's as useful as trying trying to hack 127.0.0.1
18:12:08 <TrueBrain> seems it can write a comment at the end of the file .. not super useful for this use case :D
18:12:22 <nielsm> it's really more about being ahead of people who will write confused messages about "are you sure this file should be here? it contains your secret data"
18:12:49 <TrueBrain> I do not think anyone is going to be confused to think it would be OUR secrets .. as a look in the file makes that clear
18:12:55 <TrueBrain> but I do think you have a very good point that what that file is
18:13:01 <TrueBrain> just to hint people not sharing it with others
18:13:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9017: Feature: play easier together with friends from behind home routers https://git.io/JcWRx
18:14:02 <TrueBrain> +adding, in one of those sentences :P
18:15:42 <nielsm> "This file contains the encryption keys that make sure other players can't pretend to be you. Do not share this file with others, not even if they claim to be technical support."
18:16:13 <TrueBrain> meh, our ini loader is really ... ugh
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18:16:45 <nielsm> I wonder if that can be phrased with simpler grammar to make sure people who aren't as proficient in english can read it too (and have better chance of it passing through machine translation)
18:16:58 <TrueBrain> lets first see IF we can write it to the file
18:17:16 <TrueBrain> the IniFile supports "comments"
18:17:21 <TrueBrain> but this is basically "everything before the first group"
18:17:27 <TrueBrain> and a "what ever was after the last entry"
18:19:13 <TrueBrain> in other words: the current code doesn't allow this in a clean way, I think
18:19:44 <LordAro> fwrite(fd, "This file...");
18:20:15 <TrueBrain> well, what is funny with your solution
18:20:21 <TrueBrain> that every time you save the config
18:20:28 <TrueBrain> so you end up with repeating that A LOT OF TIME :P
18:20:39 <LordAro> just to make it *really* clear
18:20:58 <nielsm> my suggestion would be to only write it when the file doesn't exist yet before opening it
18:21:15 <TrueBrain> nielsm: there is no such thing :)
18:21:20 <nielsm> so the user could also delete it and not have it re-appear
18:21:25 <LordAro> that'd be quite a hack
18:21:37 <LordAro> and possibly undesirable
18:21:59 <Rubidium> then don't use powershell ;)
18:22:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot opened pull request #94: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/JcWEM
18:22:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot commented on pull request #93: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JcWE9
18:22:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot closed pull request #93: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGuHK
18:22:25 <TrueBrain> this will happen .. 8 more times :P
18:22:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot opened pull request #27: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/JcWuU
18:22:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot commented on pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JcWuT
18:22:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot closed pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGuHx
18:23:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #59: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/JcWu4
18:23:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot commented on pull request #58: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JcWuR
18:23:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot closed pull request #58: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGuQl
18:24:25 <LordAro> and they're all broken \o/
18:24:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #51: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/JcWu1
18:24:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot commented on pull request #50: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JcWuD
18:24:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot closed pull request #50: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGuQH
18:25:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] pyup-bot commented on pull request #55: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JcWzT
18:26:40 <TrueBrain> and then it goes silent for a bit ... just so sneak back in a few later :P
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18:28:45 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe the field is called "comment"
18:28:51 <TrueBrain> but it is just "what-ever-is-the-junk-between-groups"
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18:29:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/eints] pyup-bot commented on pull request #45: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JcWzd
18:29:39 <frosch123> ah, right in time for the spam :p
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18:30:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #32: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/JcWg3
18:30:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] pyup-bot commented on pull request #31: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JcWgn
18:30:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] pyup-bot closed pull request #31: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGudu
18:30:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JGLne
18:30:39 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I managed to cook something up .. it is not the prettiest, but also not really ugly
18:31:26 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for July https://git.io/JcWgi
18:31:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] pyup-bot commented on pull request #25: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JcWgP
18:31:32 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] pyup-bot closed pull request #25: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGudA
18:31:45 <TrueBrain> how are you frosch123 ? We missed you :D
18:32:00 <frosch123> yeah, i took a ottd vacation :)
18:33:18 <frosch123> i'll be gone again over the weekend, but if i survive the vax on monday, i will be here more next week
18:34:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JcW2y
18:34:55 <frosch123> info@ spam became even weirder. now they are advertising their tools for balancing games... how rude, as if there is anything out of balance
18:35:32 <TrueBrain> frosch123: haha, well, I have a shot in my left arm and my right arm .. and I am still weird, so I am sure you will be fine too :P
18:38:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JcWaV
18:38:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JGLne
18:42:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9298: Change: move sensitive information to secrets.cfg and private information to private.cfg https://git.io/JGLne
18:50:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9017: Feature: play easier together with friends from behind home routers https://git.io/JcWw1
18:54:44 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am still surprised how much "offers" we get at info@ .. especially stuff like translator help .. paid, ofc
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18:56:33 <TrueBrain> that scared him ... can't blame him :D
18:56:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9017: Feature: play easier together with friends from behind home routers https://git.io/JOk7C
18:57:07 <TrueBrain> nielsm: btw, I made the text in #9298 more to the point by basically flipping your statement .. start with "DOT NOT SHARE" and explain why after :)
18:57:47 <TrueBrain> (for those who are lazy :P : "; Do not share this file with others, not even if they claim to be technical support.\n; This file contains saved passwords and other secrets that should remain private to you!")
18:58:46 <TrueBrain> funny how 9298 was suppose to be a simple PR .. it grew :D
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19:05:33 <TrueBrain> -limnoria==2021.06.15
19:05:33 <TrueBrain> +limnoria==2021.6.15
19:05:39 <TrueBrain> ffs limnoria, make up your mind how you call your package
19:06:12 <TrueBrain> and why is requests still not updated for idna 3 ..
19:06:15 <TrueBrain> this is getting old and boring
19:07:57 <TrueBrain> "Thanks for the PR. I think this looks fine but there's some mild concern about users on Python 2"
19:08:08 <TrueBrain> how is Python 2 still a concern?
19:09:41 <LordAro> there are still a lot of people still on py2
19:09:51 <LordAro> but i'm not sure why that should affect new versions
19:10:26 <TrueBrain> they are afraid they find an issue with requests, and cannot fix it for py2 users
19:10:33 <TrueBrain> but .. you cannot support people using EOL stuff for ever and ever
19:10:37 <TrueBrain> it is just not practical in any sense
19:10:48 <LordAro> maybe you should tell them that
19:11:22 <TrueBrain> but they now scheduled it for "next release"
19:11:37 <TrueBrain> with no ETA, ofc :D
19:12:26 <TrueBrain> it btw is a more generic issue .. the longer we have Open Source software, the more you see this poping up .. people still using really old versions "because it works", often companies no longer investing money in their software
19:12:51 <TrueBrain> just look at how many software still need to run in DOS :P
19:13:02 <TrueBrain> I wonder what this does in 10 years :D
19:15:02 <glx> I can understand why py2 was still used in the begining of py3, but everybody should have switch to py3 by now, it's out for more than 10 years
19:16:13 <glx> I know there's some issues when moving from 2 to 3, but it's doable
19:16:36 <LordAro> depends how big your codebase is :p
19:17:28 <TrueBrain> and if your company wants to invest money in the conversion
19:17:42 <TrueBrain> I really cannot blame people for staying on py2
19:17:50 <glx> at some point they will need to do it anyway
19:17:52 <TrueBrain> but I cannot imagine the stress libraries have for still wanting to support it
19:18:13 <TrueBrain> your increase your maintenance burden by so much
19:18:22 <LordAro> one place in particular i know about does a *lot* of bytes/strings stuff (URL/HTTP-based), and doesn't have any spare devs
19:18:35 <TrueBrain> no company has spare devs :P
19:18:50 <LordAro> apparently the last pip release that supported py2 changed something fairly fundamental about the dependency resolver which broke several things
19:19:19 <TrueBrain> with py2, many people use a fairly old pip, yes :)
19:20:04 <TrueBrain> article from 2013 :P
19:22:28 <TrueBrain> "Do your best to sleep, daily."
19:23:33 <TrueBrain> glx: btw, you might think they need to do it, but again .. there is still software that requires DOS to run
19:23:37 <TrueBrain> and it is still receiving patches
19:24:11 <TrueBrain> hell, lot of x-ray machines run WinXP, and are still receiving security-fixes (MS can be nice in certain cases)
19:24:55 <TrueBrain> ATMs still run WinCE
19:25:04 <TrueBrain> the world is full of "they should not be doing that anymore" :P
19:26:57 <TrueBrain> I really understand companies staying at Python2 :)
19:27:35 <TrueBrain> I just think it is not wise of libraries to not upgrade using that as argument :P But requests has adjusted their reasoning, so we just have to wait now ....... I am impatient ...... :D
19:27:41 <TrueBrain> glx: is there really a difference? :)
19:28:02 <TrueBrain> DOS is run in DOSBox for software still using it, to make the similarities more clear :D
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19:42:49 <TrueBrain> you missed him, sorry :(
20:01:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
20:06:19 <TrueBrain> "It appears to me that NexusMods is intending to ignore the Rights of mod Authors in order to maintain the integrity of pre-defined Collections. I believe this is "wrong", and even "unethical"."
20:06:41 <TrueBrain> (the right to delete their content at will, he is talking about)
20:07:54 <TrueBrain> I think there is money involved in their platform :P It might bias things a bit :D
20:09:29 <TrueBrain> can't even read the text
20:09:40 <TrueBrain> my mouse doesn't want to get close to the close button
20:09:56 <TrueBrain> who-ever wrote that site, please change the colours
20:10:25 <andythenorth> I will read it for you
20:10:30 <andythenorth> I am an expert in reading
20:13:07 <andythenorth> it was a web page
20:14:39 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: insightful, tnx
20:14:52 <andythenorth> something something mods
20:14:57 <andythenorth> "open is better"
20:15:06 <andythenorth> "no takebacks" is better
20:15:11 <andythenorth> but licensing is hard
20:15:20 <andythenorth> such summarising
20:15:44 <andythenorth> LordAro THANKS :D
20:15:57 <TrueBrain> reading the nexusmods, it seems we did well to make our ToS what it is from the start
20:16:02 <TrueBrain> what a drama that is .. lol
20:16:27 <andythenorth> hmm I think I self-removed my merge rights on nml
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20:16:56 <TrueBrain> clearly I do have rights
20:17:47 <TrueBrain> I am trying to understand why mod authors want to be able to remove their content from nexusmods .. but I cannot find their reasoning. I am sure it is implied, but I am not part of that community, so I don't know it :D
20:18:05 <andythenorth> it's the whole loss of control thing
20:18:27 <TrueBrain> ah, so it is about the emotion?
20:18:39 <TrueBrain> (not judging btw, I am curious)
20:18:51 <andythenorth> I read some stuff about loss aversion
20:18:54 <TrueBrain> guess that is one thing Open Source takes away from you :P
20:18:57 <andythenorth> it's quite a big thing for peoples
20:19:04 <TrueBrain> once you push .. it is out there for ever .. deal with it :P
20:19:14 <andythenorth> BUT IT'S MY LIFE'S WORK
20:19:21 <andythenorth> I MIGHT BE JUDGED
20:19:25 <TrueBrain> can you imagine someone comes and wants to remove his line of code from a repo
20:19:28 <andythenorth> PEOPLE MIGHT PIRATE IT
20:19:33 <andythenorth> SOMEONE MIGHT MAKE MONEY
20:19:40 <TrueBrain> the money argument comes by a lot
20:19:42 <andythenorth> number of fucks I give
20:19:56 <TrueBrain> but I read the same argument on minecraft modpacks
20:20:02 <andythenorth> I do get triggered if someone GPL violates who should know better though
20:20:08 <andythenorth> like...play fair
20:20:11 <TrueBrain> basically .. without modpacks, mods were .. rarely downloaded .. and it was hard to put 2 mods together
20:20:19 <TrueBrain> with modpacks, mod authors complain THEY DONT MAKE MONEY ANYMORE
20:20:24 <andythenorth> we have modpacks yet?
20:20:24 <TrueBrain> they also didn't before modpacks
20:20:29 <andythenorth> I MAKE NO MONEY ON GRFs
20:20:41 <TrueBrain> well, I would like to add modpacks (read: presets :P )
20:20:49 <TrueBrain> so I am somewhat curious how other communities deal with it
20:21:06 <andythenorth> probably with drama?
20:21:09 <TrueBrain> from what I understand, CurseForge solved the money argument by giving every download a share of the profit
20:21:18 <TrueBrain> and modpacks do not embed mods anymore, but force a download via CurseForge
20:21:33 <TrueBrain> but so far, in both these cases, money seems to be the central pillar
20:21:36 <TrueBrain> which we don't have :P
20:22:04 <TrueBrain> and presets will be the same, they trigger a download from BaNaNaS .. they cannot embed content
20:22:27 <andythenorth> andythenorth modpack $7
20:22:59 <andythenorth> salaries for player support staff $1m
20:23:38 <TrueBrain> some arguments are funny .. "we have the right to decide how our content is distributed" .. "with this change, you force us to participate"
20:23:43 <TrueBrain> no, you can still opt NOT to use their platform
20:23:48 <TrueBrain> you still have all your rights
20:24:05 <TrueBrain> like some NewGRFs author opt not to use BaNaNaS .. their freedom after all
20:24:40 <andythenorth> people gonna people
20:24:50 <glx> and they can still distribute outside of BaNaNaS if they want
20:24:55 <andythenorth> ok now I must documentation nml :)
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20:25:02 <TrueBrain> they can even clone BaNaNaS if they like .. the source code is there :)
20:25:43 <andythenorth> how do we document nml that hasn't been released yet?
20:25:53 <TrueBrain> shall I click the release button? :P
20:26:01 <TrueBrain> pretty sure some people will get really mad at me if I do that :P
20:26:20 <glx> andythenorth: just use 0.6+ in the doc :)
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20:28:31 <TrueBrain> we are proud you managed to do that
20:28:48 <andythenorth> it's an achievement
20:28:54 <andythenorth> where's the docs tracker?
20:29:19 <glx> or {{nml|0.6}} (like there's already for 0.3 and 0.5)
20:30:04 <andythenorth> glx yes I did the {{nml|0.6}} version :)
20:30:25 <glx> you still need to document procedures ;)
20:31:09 <andythenorth> I don't really know how to explain them
20:31:19 <andythenorth> I tried a couple of times explaining them to other grf authors in discord
20:31:22 <glx> because I think it's better if it's written by someone who used it
20:31:49 <andythenorth> it's really hard to explain them
20:31:55 <andythenorth> but really easy to use them :P
20:33:01 <andythenorth> let's write something bad, then you can criticise it
20:33:18 <glx> I don't see how it can be hard to say it allows to write things like (x + procedure() * 3)
20:34:17 <andythenorth> it's the concept
20:34:28 <andythenorth> an nml author is going to have no idea what a procedure is
20:34:41 * andythenorth looks what newgrf says
20:35:20 <andythenorth> "When the variable in a VarAction2 is 7E, the procedure given by the 60+x parameter is invoked. This means that the byte following the variable number (7E) specifies a variational or random action 2 ID to call, similarly to how a regular VarAction2 branches to other action 2 entries. However, instead of branching, it is a subroutine call, with the value calculated by the called entry being used as variable
20:35:41 <andythenorth> ok so I just translate that to nml, job is a good un
20:36:19 <andythenorth> TrueBrain want to help? :)
20:36:22 <glx> oh IIRC there's something about scope too
20:38:00 <glx> ah no it's about feature, but I don't think nml handles that correctly
20:38:01 <andythenorth> procedures are the best addition to nml...probably since it was released
20:38:16 <andythenorth> do I bother trying to explain how to use them?
20:38:20 <andythenorth> or just document the interface?
20:38:37 <andythenorth> they remove so much duplicate code
20:39:22 <glx> any switch can be used as procedure, then parameters were added for mor power
20:40:44 <andythenorth> reduced code duplication
20:40:50 <andythenorth> 'custom variables'
20:40:52 <glx> I think there's only one possible issue with procedures, they can easily eat a lot of action 2 ID :)
20:41:29 <TrueBrain> You want me to help write docs for something I don't know anything about andythenorth? Sounds like a terrible idea :p
20:41:45 <andythenorth> TrueBrain but I pasted the nfo docs above :P
20:41:51 <andythenorth> all we have to do is use those
20:42:18 <andythenorth> glx I didn't run out of action 2 IDs....yet :)
20:42:23 <andythenorth> despite the loop unroll thing
20:42:44 <glx> depends of the number of procedure and the last usage
20:43:11 <glx> if you declare a lot in begining but use them only at the end
20:43:29 <andythenorth> I am sure I will find a case that breaks it
20:43:31 <glx> but it's indeed the same with other switches
20:43:36 <andythenorth> I broke the action 2 ID limit a few times already
20:44:36 <glx> I think optimisations help in the case of normal switches (though then often already were reusing same IDs)
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20:45:14 <andythenorth> maybe I should try and break it
20:45:34 <glx> but for example, if a switch jumps to 4 others returning constant, you save 3 IDs
20:47:49 <glx> it's easy to break the action 2 ID limit if stuff is declared way before it's used
20:47:54 <andythenorth> @seen Eddi|zuHause
20:47:54 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Eddi|zuHause was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 22 hours, 15 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that code part is very contained.
20:48:00 <andythenorth> oh Eddi|zuHause is alive :)
20:48:44 <glx> usually some reordering fixes the issue
20:49:02 <glx> (can be a pain with generated code :) )
20:50:56 <glx> but often a complex chain (with many scope changes) use only one ID
20:51:47 <glx> unless it switches between all available cargos ;)
20:52:07 <glx> and do something different for each one
20:54:25 <glx> anyway in this case 64 IDs are needed, but only for a short time
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20:57:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on issue #105: Document procedures for switches and random switches https://git.io/Jftrs
20:57:55 <glx> nml is way better at using IDs for complex stuff than doing it manually in NFO :)
20:57:59 <andythenorth> it's not good :P ^^
20:58:44 <andythenorth> there are examples from FIRS and Horse for procedures, but I don't know if they're good
21:02:10 <andythenorth> nobody needs to see that loop unroll
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