IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-06-07
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07:54:14 <peter1138> "aBase ... has been abandoned. Try zBase instead..." Uhhh
08:27:34 <TrueBrain> Broken savegame - Invalid town name generator
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08:46:29 <EER> lover of the russian queen?
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08:53:13 <Timberwolf> I like "when we played this back in 1994... no tutorial, no information to read..."
08:53:40 <andythenorth> printed manual :P
08:54:48 <Timberwolf> They were pretty rudimentary, but gave a rough clue.
08:56:36 <Timberwolf> I guess if you played the early demo versions you had no manual or tutorials.
08:59:20 <EER> I started with the demo where you could only build trains, when I finally got the full game I only built trucks, that would teach those AIs who had been building trucks all along in the demo while I couldn't! I don't remember any tutorials, but the printed manual I remember was quite thick so probably covered most things relevant
09:14:32 <Timberwolf> Oh yes, of course! I'd forgotten the demo was trains-only. (At least, the one I had). I was so badly looking forward to release day when I could play with road vehicles :)
09:31:44 <TrueBrain> ha, town have headers \o/ Okay, this actually works .. w00p
09:31:47 <TrueBrain> now to do the other chunks
09:36:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame https://git.io/JGlmd
09:36:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame https://git.io/JGlmd
09:38:58 <TrueBrain> now the question is: can I do it with the rest too :D
09:41:19 <TrueBrain> .env/bin/python -m savegame_reader test.sav --export-json | jq '.CITY.items[].ratings[0]'
09:41:26 <TrueBrain> allows me to see the rating of company 0 of all towns now :D
09:47:28 <TrueBrain> ugh .. that moment GCC accepts something clang/MSVC don't
09:49:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame https://git.io/JGlmd
09:52:05 <TrueBrain> error: no template named 'optional' in namespace 'std'
09:55:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JGhXd
09:56:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9322: Add: store table header for each chunk in savegame https://git.io/JGlmd
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10:38:39 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: maybe convert the game/script chunks to be a table with a json-blob text field for the script's own saved data.
10:38:54 <peter1138> I guess I need to read up on what a CH_TABLE is...
10:41:14 <peter1138> Does this make a savegame self-describing?
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11:18:54 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: feel free :P But that is not on my list. I am fine with how it is currently stored :)
11:20:02 <TrueBrain> peter1138: it indeed does. And most of those lines are "compat" tables, to "add" a header for old savegames :)
11:20:37 <TrueBrain> 1106 of those lines are for only that :D
11:21:52 <peter1138> Did you intend to go this far or just get carried away?
11:22:00 <TrueBrain> I wanted to do it only for settings
11:22:17 <TrueBrain> as that is what I needed :)
11:43:42 <TrueBrain> sometimes you fall in a pit ..:P
11:43:45 <TrueBrain> but I don't mind thisone
11:43:50 <TrueBrain> the result is pretty cool
11:43:59 <peter1138> No but if it makes the PR massive it's awkward.
11:44:09 <TrueBrain> that is why there are several PRs :)
11:44:14 <TrueBrain> I just cannot make a PR to a PR ..
11:44:27 <TrueBrain> there are really only 3 commits in that PR
11:44:31 <TrueBrain> the rest is all in other PRs :P
11:45:09 <TrueBrain> keeping things revieable is always difficult with these kind of things .. mainly as it requires at least 2 people to understand the SaveLoad code :D
11:49:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JZLTy
11:51:41 <TrueBrain> LordAro: did you now seriously comment the same thing on the same variable? :P I cannot rename one without the other :D
11:52:10 <TrueBrain> haha, I was wondering why I couldn't submit my comment :P
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11:52:23 <LordAro> i deleted it seconds after submitting :p
11:52:27 <TrueBrain> now GitHub is utterly confused :D
11:52:28 <LordAro> not my fault you're too fast
11:52:47 <TrueBrain> I can no longer comment on things :D
11:52:50 <TrueBrain> it says I have a pending review
11:53:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JZLkR
12:02:10 <TrueBrain> Broken savegame - Referencing invalid Vehicle
12:02:13 <TrueBrain> bah .. what did I break ..
12:39:21 <TrueBrain> being able to embed structs in structs really does help for readability etc
12:45:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames https://git.io/JZLZC
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13:01:13 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I kinda want to make it SLE_COND_REFLIST .. but that _ after COND would be new :P
13:02:59 <TrueBrain> maybe after all this I do a pass on these kind of things
13:03:03 <TrueBrain> as this breaks all patches anyway
13:04:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JGhXd
13:08:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JGhXd
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16:47:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9335: Codechange: make [Save|Load]Settings() behave more like other Save/Load code https://git.io/JZtLp
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17:53:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JZtCe
18:06:39 <andythenorth> slow test runner is slow
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18:17:43 <andythenorth> I have some comments
18:18:15 <andythenorth> x.gif is a lot hard to search for than, e.g. remove_icon.gif, or remove_item.gif or x_icon_red.gif
18:18:53 * andythenorth is still dealing with misguided 'optimisation' approaches that were outdated when they were applied 15 years ago
18:19:04 <andythenorth> but still my responsibility
18:19:33 <andythenorth> let's optimise the number of characters in static assets, that's surely going to make us faster and more loved
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18:20:55 * Rubidium used to do that in VB6
18:22:33 <andythenorth> it's a pattern from either (1) I work solo, so it doesn't matter (2) I have never ever refactored anything ever (3) I genuinely believe it's faster because I read something from google about url size affecting http transfer times
18:22:46 <andythenorth> or (4) I literally don't have any better ideas
18:23:16 <andythenorth> we still have "var a; var b; var m;" etc in very old code
18:23:20 <andythenorth> so much rage it causes me
18:23:42 <andythenorth> but someone believed the javascript performance would be significantly approved, in download time and run time
18:24:05 <Rubidium> though definitely in that decade, somewhen not long after primary school
18:24:20 <andythenorth> this is also the least likely stuff to get refactored, because searching doing a find and replace on 'a' is a non-starter :D
18:24:26 <andythenorth> stuck with it for life
18:25:37 <frosch123> there are two groups at work: one group wants to replace the homegrown build system with cmake, the other group wants to add tcl support to the homegrown system :p
18:26:19 <andythenorth> are you a third group?
18:26:34 <andythenorth> group 3: looking on linkedin for jobs
18:26:41 <andythenorth> oh wait, no engineer ever does that :D
18:27:53 <frosch123> yeah, group 3: watching with popcorn
18:33:03 <andythenorth> group 4: wondering if spending more on AWS makes the test runner faster
18:33:06 * andythenorth killing time here
18:33:52 <Rubidium> andythenorth: it probably would, just a question of how much you need to spend to make it significantly faster
18:34:06 <andythenorth> got to fund those rocket trips
18:34:26 <andythenorth> on-topic: we need 'launch the rocket' in ottd
18:34:27 <Rubidium> with sufficient funding you can probably let them optimise some AWS nodes for your test runner purposes
18:36:25 <Rubidium> yeah, it should probably be in the in the G£ or T£ range you'd need to shell out for them to consider doing that ;)
18:37:37 <andythenorth> test runs are 22 minutes
18:37:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames https://git.io/JZt00
18:37:52 <andythenorth> and I'm making atomic commits deleting 1 or 2 images at once
18:38:10 <andythenorth> test is a visual diff of an entire site
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19:29:26 <FLHerne> Should the first "if no valid" be "if a valid" ?
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19:33:16 <frosch123> it's a complicated sentence :p
19:34:18 <frosch123> but i think your guess is correct
19:34:41 <frosch123> first line is for companies, second is for deities
19:42:37 <V453000> does every year in openttd have 365 days? For introduction dates
19:43:01 <V453000> so if I do a date(1900,1,1) + 365 * 50, will it add exactly 50 years?
19:45:34 <Rubidium> frosch123: only works if you start at 1904 up to 2100
19:46:08 <frosch123> yeah, but people won't notice due to the 2 years (?) randomisation :)
19:46:28 <V453000> also the vehicle in the purchase menu only says year which will probably never be different
19:46:32 <frosch123> V453000: are you living with the mayan calendar?
19:50:05 <_dp_> I've no idea what are you doing but can't you write like date(1900+50,1,1) or smth?
19:51:11 <V453000> I've found an ancient comment that I wrote for myself, that has date(1900, 1 ,1) + 365 * parameter;
19:51:22 <V453000> I'm assuming I tried 1900+50 last time I was doing this
19:53:11 <V453000> I know it's WRONG, but I'm basically adding daylength modifier to nuts, so you could customize when engines start and when they end
19:54:37 <frosch123> yeah, i think we talked about that 4 years ago :p
19:54:58 <V453000> I agree it's probably better to do it on the side of the game so all newgrfs scale together
19:55:09 <V453000> but people who use nuts usually only care about trains
19:55:13 <V453000> and they don't have to use the parameter :)
19:58:10 <andythenorth> finally daylength modifier in grf
19:58:18 <andythenorth> I have been waiting for this for so long
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19:58:41 <andythenorth> can grfs read parameters of other grfs?
19:58:50 <glx> oh nice, current ORDR is a CH_ARRAY, but in intro game it seems to be a CH_RIFF
19:59:03 <_dp_> last time I needed that I just made a grf to adjust intro dates
19:59:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: scary thing, they actually can
19:59:07 <V453000> in my defense, if openttd hasn't implmenented it in the last 4 years, it kind of makes sense if I do it in grf :P
19:59:14 <andythenorth> so we could just make daylength.grf
19:59:18 <andythenorth> with a multiplier
19:59:22 <_dp_> and pretty sure scalable parameter won't help me do what I want :p
19:59:43 <andythenorth> _dp_ you're fine, you have a server
20:00:19 <_dp_> it's still easier to do in newgrf
20:00:30 <_dp_> unless it's a callback like cost
20:00:55 <nielsm> little thing I'd like to try doing but last I looked it seemed annoyingly difficult to jiggle things around the right way: load the music and begin playing before the newgrf scanning on startup
20:00:58 <_dp_> also pretty sure at that point I didn't yet realize that engines are stored in the savegame xD
20:01:22 <andythenorth> V453000 are you doing it as a multiplier (scales all dates), or an amount of years added?
20:01:29 <andythenorth> multiplier seems better probably?
20:01:44 <V453000> you choose start and end
20:02:00 <V453000> and I'll python process existing NML to just figure out that formula
20:02:11 <andythenorth> I really think we could move it to one external grf
20:02:38 <andythenorth> the main reason I didn't do it are (1) some people on here said 'ew' (2) I'd have to set it for all my grfs in parameters, and that's boring
20:02:38 <V453000> so an external grf can change the introduction dates of vehicles in other grfs?
20:02:57 <V453000> yeah the other grfs would need to have parameters exposed?
20:03:01 <andythenorth> we can make one daylength.grf and read the parameter of that
20:03:12 <andythenorth> if it's just a multiplier and some start date offset
20:03:44 <andythenorth> oh also I didn't do it because discord be like 'but everybody uses JGRPP so why bother?'
20:04:03 <V453000> but that means it would only support vehicle grfs which do read this other grf
20:04:20 <V453000> at which point you could just have the parameter in each of them, with less convenience but one less grf to remember
20:04:27 <andythenorth> stuff and things
20:04:35 <andythenorth> shall we just merge everything to one grf?
20:05:09 <andythenorth> obviously it's impossible for the base game to scale intro dates, as C++ can't do that kind of maths
20:05:23 <V453000> hm, can I ensure parameter A is always lower than parameter B?
20:05:53 <V453000> I guess I can just disable the grf if you configure it that way
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20:07:37 <andythenorth> @seen Eddi|zuHause
20:07:37 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Eddi|zuHause was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 4 days, 11 hours, 1 minute, and 59 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> also, isn't "master" a "bad" word nowadays?
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20:10:29 <V453000> Valid range for yyyy is 0 ... 5000000
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20:16:35 <frosch123> yes, that's when ottd starts looping years
20:17:07 <frosch123> though that is most likely very untested :p
20:17:44 <V453000> yeah 500 001 results in 1661
20:17:54 <V453000> I kind of expected it would result in 0
20:18:41 <V453000> as you can clearly set it to 0 (logic engine has it at (0,1,1) )
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20:19:55 <frosch123> it takes about 130 years to run a game from year 0 to 5M at normal speed :)
20:20:06 <frosch123> just in case you are tempted to
20:20:36 <V453000> this is half a million, so just 13 years
20:20:44 <V453000> somebody has probably hosted a server for that long
20:21:08 <V453000> nvm I cna't count zeros
20:22:20 <V453000> So, reasonable maximum? :D
20:22:35 <V453000> I mean, if you set 5M for yourself, enjoy
20:23:13 <andythenorth> V453000 declare this as some kind of daylength standard and I'll add it to my grfs :P
20:23:32 <V453000> I'll just set the max to 5m
20:24:35 <V453000> if you want to have maglevs next to horses from other sets, or steamers next to some modern shit, be my gues
20:24:55 <V453000> obviously most of the time people would just use it on servers for a shorter or longer game for example
20:25:08 <V453000> start still in 1900, but end in 1950 or 2500
20:37:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt commented on pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default https://git.io/JZtDb
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21:01:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default https://git.io/JZt9p
21:01:33 <TrueBrain> "I'm wondering if my emails are being delivered to you or are my emails mistakenly falling into your Spam folder ? Please reply to my email if you receive it ." <- yes, yes they are :P
21:01:38 <TrueBrain> happy ther eis a form of self-realisation :D
21:03:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #9335: Codechange: make [Save|Load]Settings() behave more like other Save/Load code https://git.io/JGKBm
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21:08:14 <TrueBrain> GitHub really needs to more clearly indicate what blocks of code are moved :P
21:14:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JZtQ5
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21:24:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JGhXd
21:25:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JZt5R
21:26:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JZt5g
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21:35:17 <TrueBrain> MSVC2016's "friends" system is broken ..
21:35:22 <TrueBrain> how are we going to deal with that ..
21:35:36 <TrueBrain> all compilers accept it, except MSVC2016 ...
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21:40:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames https://git.io/JZtbG
21:40:46 <TrueBrain> I also have no way of testing if more specific friend-declarations are still working .. maybe glx can help with that
21:40:54 <TrueBrain> but why are we still supporting compiles on MSVC2016?
21:42:00 <TrueBrain> owh, it is windows-2016 MSVC
21:42:03 <TrueBrain> I keep forgetting that
21:43:21 <TrueBrain> so shitty to have to deal with compiler issues :P
21:44:04 <TrueBrain> glx: do you have VS2017 installed by any chance?
21:44:19 <glx> I have the compiler in VS2019
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21:44:31 <TrueBrain> it works for VS2019 :P
21:44:43 <glx> so I can build with 2017 in 2019
21:44:44 <TrueBrain> guess I will abuse the CI tomorrow to see if there are variants it does accept
21:44:56 <TrueBrain> owh, sorry, misread you :D
21:45:14 <TrueBrain> that "friend" is not working for VS2017
21:45:22 <glx> used it to fix something (before enabling VS2017 CI)
21:45:26 <TrueBrain> could you give it a look to see if variants do work?
21:46:45 <TrueBrain> something like "friend const static SaveLoad SlVehicleCommon::description" maybe?
21:47:00 <glx> btw in #9322 rebasing is weirdly done (ie individual commits won't compile)
21:47:39 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, often the last commit fixes stuff which I need to fixup in earlier
21:47:49 <TrueBrain> will do that before pulling it out of draft :)
21:48:19 <glx> ok VS2019 builds fine (expected)
21:48:31 <TrueBrain> guess an alternative is that I put those in an explicit function again
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21:49:16 <TrueBrain> not the end-of-the-world or anything :D
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21:49:25 <TrueBrain> just annoyed by the fact it doesn't work :D
21:50:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9339: Codechange: add and use the ability to store (lists of) structs in savegames https://git.io/JZtNc
21:54:47 <glx> and it used the wrong compiler :(
22:02:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JGhXd
22:03:49 <glx> ok seems they again broke VCToolsVersion support, I'll switch to manually define compilers path
22:04:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JGhXd
22:08:30 <glx> ah no, just needed to set another environment variable it seems
22:10:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #9338: Several code refactors of the SaveLoad code https://git.io/JGhXd
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22:11:10 <TrueBrain> now with a better comment on the last commit :D
22:12:26 <glx> ok I have the same errors as CI ;)
22:14:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Andrew350 commented on issue #8846: Updating add-ons in the NewGRF settings window don't take into account the compatibility parameter https://git.io/Jqnpp
22:16:30 <TrueBrain> well, that is something :D
22:17:07 <TrueBrain> owh, this usage of mine predates C++11 even
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22:18:32 <TrueBrain> not sure there is another solution besides making it into a function
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22:21:06 <TrueBrain> anyway, please don't spend too much time on it glx, but if you can fiddle a bit to see if anything decent falls out, that would be lovely :) Tnx!
22:21:50 <TrueBrain> I am out catching some zzzz
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22:30:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt updated pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default https://git.io/J3aVd
22:40:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt updated pull request #9191: Codechange: Disable pointer locking by default https://git.io/J3aVd
22:42:18 <glx> TrueBrain: maybe because it's accessed in a lambda
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