IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2021-06-01
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06:33:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] danuker commented on issue #8206: Vehicle lists "Manage list" options inconsistent https://git.io/JfM79
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10:22:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN commented on pull request #212: Fix #209: Sign-extend value before cargo_profit callback result calculation https://git.io/JGE4p
10:23:32 <LordAro> might be zbase issue?
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10:32:56 <peter1138> No "might" about it.
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10:42:44 <TrueBrain> What is long time version? :D
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12:53:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #9180: Codechange: Remove FOR_ALL_CHUNK_HANDLERS https://git.io/JGE9Q
13:13:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9180: Codechange: Remove FOR_ALL_CHUNK_HANDLERS https://git.io/JGE7h
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13:21:14 <TrueBrain> a variable called "l" .. really glx :P
13:22:46 <TrueBrain> no clue if it is better to have ChunkHandler or ChunkHandler * in the std::vector
13:22:52 <TrueBrain> the latter is strictly seen using less memory
13:23:10 <TrueBrain> but it requires an extra dereference .. and it could potentially have nullptr .. so from a coding point of view, the first seems nicer
13:27:13 <LordAro> it's already heap allocated, so you're not gaining anything from the extra pointer apart from if it could be null or ownership/copying reasons
13:27:35 <glx> initializer_list for a constructor is the typical usage
13:29:31 <TrueBrain> glx: sorry, what do you mean?
13:31:32 <TrueBrain> LordAro: well, heap allocated or not, an extra copy takes more memory :P
13:31:39 <glx> I mean using it as an argument type is more usual than using it as a variable type
13:32:18 <TrueBrain> (to be clear, "more memory", we talk about .. 4 pointers per entry .. there are like 80 entries .. so ...
13:33:00 <glx> there are 33 tables, most with only one element ;)
13:33:11 <TrueBrain> I know, as I have been converting them :P
13:33:21 <TrueBrain> well, no, not 79 chunks
13:34:09 <TrueBrain> (most chunks has ~1 object, but some have (many) more)
13:34:29 <TrueBrain> so personally, I would do ChunkHandler, not ChunkHandler *, in the vector
13:34:47 <TrueBrain> just as it makes a lot of the other code a bit easier to read / less error prune
13:35:35 <TrueBrain> one thing I really like of C++ over C .. the ability to say: this is never a nullptr :)
13:36:12 <TrueBrain> btw, glx, the reason I think you used an initializer_list, is that you first need to store the ChunkHandlerTable[] somewhere in a variable before you can create a span<> out of it
13:36:48 <TrueBrain> so I just repeated the trick you did for the chunks itself :D
13:39:03 <TrueBrain> lol @ mail to @info .. "Hi OpenTTD (32-Bit), .."
13:39:07 <TrueBrain> didn't know that was our name now :)
13:42:33 <Rubidium> an alternative *could* be to just have one ChunkHandlerTable instead of it being spread over many _sl.cpp files. Means you need to declare the list of save/load functions, but that might be clearer in the long run?!?
13:43:51 <glx> I used initializer_list to don't need to create an array, and have a constructor usage similar to std::vector<int> v { 0, 1, 2, 3 };
13:44:38 <TrueBrain> it is creating the array anyway :)
13:45:54 <Rubidium> glx: I'm not bothered about the type of collection per se, but rather instead suggest having one collection, instead of making one collection from many collections
13:45:55 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: instead of having 1 extern per saveload file, there would be several externs for all the Save/Load procs .. not sure that is clearer in the long run, honestly
13:47:13 <Rubidium> generate them from an ini ;)
13:47:32 <TrueBrain> that is just moving the issue around
13:47:45 <glx> one of the previous version did auto register, but it also modified chunk orders
13:52:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #9180: Codechange: Remove FOR_ALL_CHUNK_HANDLERS https://git.io/JGExp
13:54:38 <TrueBrain> sorry for all the bikeshedding glx :D
13:55:47 <TrueBrain> trying to get the hang of these list storages myself .. not easy :P
13:56:17 <glx> yeah basically we just want an easy way to merge different lists :)
14:26:54 <glx> I'm merging stuff inside the original branch of the PR, confilcts everywhere
14:27:15 <Rubidium> glx: I'm truely sorry
14:27:40 <glx> it's my fault, I should have removed my commit first
14:27:54 <glx> because I'm basically replacing it
14:32:45 <glx> crazy idea, use the same variable name for all static const ChunkHandler[] (I won't do that)
14:36:17 * Rubidium ups the crazy... maybe something like how currently drivers are registered. They already have a priority. After that just sort on the name of the chunk. Should be stable, although not necessarily the same as it is now
14:40:52 <TrueBrain> I haven't followed why auto-register wasn't working, but I would guess we only need 1 chunk at the start
14:40:57 <TrueBrain> and the rest is irrelevant in order
14:41:07 <TrueBrain> (gamelog we want at the start for various reasons, if I remember correctly)
14:41:27 <glx> for individual chunk handler list, the order is important
14:41:39 <glx> but each list can be anywhere
14:41:59 <TrueBrain> although, I can understand that the game is now so used to a certain order
14:42:03 <TrueBrain> it might break in unexpected ways
14:42:05 <glx> like all MAP chunks must be in a precise order
14:42:08 <TrueBrain> like, expecting settings to be loaded or not
14:42:44 <TrueBrain> but honestly, it sounds more and more we are trying to overcomplicate this by a lot :D
14:43:03 <glx> settings don't matter, I think it's handled in AfterLoad
14:43:12 <TrueBrain> I can imagine someone didn't get that memo
14:43:17 <TrueBrain> and some line in some chunk depends on it :P
14:43:28 <TrueBrain> some are really messy .. not everyone understood the saveload system that well :P
14:44:06 <glx> but really order inside chunk groups is very important
14:45:08 <Rubidium> yay... dependency tree resolution ;)
14:55:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze opened pull request #9327: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct parameter in CmdSignalTrackHelper https://git.io/JGuLs
14:56:05 <glx> advantage of chunk based savegame is that order should not matter
15:00:31 <glx> but it still partially does
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15:07:04 <TrueBrain> personally, not a fan, but that has to do with: if you forget to include the file, it doesn't work, and you spend a long time figuring out why :P
15:07:09 <TrueBrain> I like the explicit dragging shit in :D
15:07:17 <TrueBrain> but that is more angst of the past :P
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15:08:06 <glx> if you forget to include it doesn't compile ;)
15:10:55 <TrueBrain> and yeah, I kinda agree with JGR .. deterministic savegames sound like a nice thing to have :)
15:11:10 <glx> I fully understand this point yes
15:11:14 <TrueBrain> (sorry, I was reading up on the auto-register )
15:11:18 <TrueBrain> so I changed my mind :P
15:11:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9327: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct parameter in CmdSignalTrackHelper https://git.io/JGumO
15:12:09 <glx> auto register is nice, but deterministic is better
15:12:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9327: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct parameter in CmdSignalTrackHelper https://git.io/JGuLs
15:12:47 <TrueBrain> just reminds me of the whole Python dict shit :P
15:12:58 <glx> ideally we want both, but really not easy
15:12:58 <TrueBrain> "what did we learn boys and girls?" :D
15:13:20 <Rubidium> that's why I mentioned priority and then sorting by chunk name. As for the map chunk the *only* important thing to happen first is MAPS (it sets the sizes), the rest seems not to care about the order
15:13:21 <TrueBrain> just the code gets uglier and uglier
15:13:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze commented on pull request #9327: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct parameter in CmdSignalTrackHelper https://git.io/JGumo
15:17:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 commented on pull request #9327: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct parameter in CmdSignalTrackHelper https://git.io/JGuYK
15:19:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze commented on pull request #9327: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct parameter in CmdSignalTrackHelper https://git.io/JGuY7
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15:54:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] vituscze opened pull request #9328: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct name in CmdPlantTree https://git.io/JGuWW
16:19:03 <Rubidium> works as in, I can save and then reload it again
16:26:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 approved pull request #9328: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct name in CmdPlantTree https://git.io/JGuEe
16:26:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubidium42 merged pull request #9328: Fix b791ffc6: use the correct name in CmdPlantTree https://git.io/JGuWW
16:26:55 <glx> splitting the arrays is probably not needed
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16:38:13 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with python dicts TrueBrain
16:38:30 <andythenorth> it's just more FUN to use a lists of 2-tuples and unpack them
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16:46:57 <Rubidium> glx: if I would've known that, it would've saved me some time ;)
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18:22:21 <TrueBrain> owh boy, incoming spam
18:22:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot opened pull request #93: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGuHK
18:23:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot opened pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGuHx
18:24:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #58: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGuQl
18:25:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #50: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGuQH
18:30:01 <TrueBrain> grr @ requests .. fucking update your deps .. it is getting annoying :D
18:30:35 <LordAro> few big releases in there too
18:30:42 <LordAro> might actually warrant checking
18:31:16 <TrueBrain> not as big as it looks
18:31:20 <TrueBrain> lot of projects dropped Python 2 and 3.4
18:31:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #31: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGudu
18:31:40 <TrueBrain> some reason that was a thing this month
18:32:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #25: Scheduled monthly dependency update for June https://git.io/JGudA
18:33:22 <TrueBrain> I switched TrueWiki to dependabot
18:33:26 <TrueBrain> so I already knew what to expect :P
18:34:47 <andythenorth> what did I want to do with newgrf towns again?
18:34:50 <andythenorth> can anyone remember?
18:35:30 <LordAro> i thought it was split cargo ships?
18:36:13 <TrueBrain> okay, so idna 3 dropped Python2
18:36:17 <TrueBrain> many projects depends on idna
18:36:28 <TrueBrain> new pip punishes dependency mismatches
18:36:34 <TrueBrain> so projects are forced to upgrade to idna3
18:36:40 <TrueBrain> needing to drop Python2 for it
18:36:44 <TrueBrain> that is a nice cycle :D
18:36:58 <TrueBrain> we have given people enough time to upgrade to Python3 :P
18:38:42 <frosch123> we have given people enough time to move away from winxp :p
18:39:00 <TrueBrain> exactly why I really wouldn't mind if we break building for WinXP :)
18:40:53 <andythenorth> split cargo ship towns?
18:41:12 <andythenorth> I think it was control town growth via grf
18:41:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the funny part is how many closed/duplicated PRs are linked from there
18:42:03 <frosch123> hmm, no, actually those are from other people
18:50:39 <TrueBrain> GitHub is just terrible in this interlinking
18:50:53 <TrueBrain> I wish it wouldn't do it by default, and that you have to ask it to do it
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20:58:47 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
20:59:17 <frosch123> haha, in 21 days it will be on time
20:59:47 <frosch123> github moved to some planet with a 25h day
21:01:09 <Xaroth> Maybe it's a person doing the job starting
21:01:18 <Xaroth> it's said that the human body has a natural 25h cycle
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21:13:10 <peter1138> Hmm, never knew that Chris Sawyer (along with David Braben) was involved with Conqueror on the Archimedes.
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21:15:07 <frosch123> he ported games to different machines before making own games
21:15:34 <peter1138> Yeah, he did the DOS port.
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21:19:16 <frosch123> i always found old graphics cards weird, when you had to choose a subset of the available colors. cga: pick 4 of 8 colors. ega: pick 16 of 64 colors
21:27:56 <peter1138> CGA only had 2 official palettes (although low and high intensity variants too)
21:29:27 <peter1138> and of course MCGA/VGA, pick 256 out of 262144
21:30:32 <peter1138> And true VGA was planar which was just a pain in the arse.
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