IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-12-17
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00:47:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig
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02:24:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] YJSoft commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLco9
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08:12:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhGxd
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11:00:32 <Samu> that huge increase to max loan... that's gonna affect some AIs, some just loan the max possible right away
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11:18:21 <Xaroth> That's a lot of loan interest :P
11:18:26 <Xaroth> ... also, that's a LOT of building potential.
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11:32:40 <Timberwolf> Playing with jgr I found with a 5m+ loan I got to the point where income is exponentially outpacing costs before I'd got anywhere near running out the initial loan.
11:33:04 <Timberwolf> Good if you want to do one of those #openttdcoop type things without needing a pre-network to fund it, though!
11:34:46 <FLHerne> Yeah, I imagine this is for the case where you want to build a giant network for its own sake
11:41:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLWUz
11:44:20 <Timberwolf> There will be a lot of AIs sitting there with 8-10 unprofitable routes unable to choose a new one, just adding another £50k of loan every so often.
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11:51:38 <Samu> a few AIs are wasting most of the time repaying loan in 10k amounts
11:51:50 <Samu> after borrowing 2000000000
11:52:03 <Xaroth> That can take a while :P
11:59:42 <Samu> was there some road vehicle name changes?
11:59:57 <Samu> it's printing the name of the group instead of the vehicle name?
12:06:58 <Samu> this is... gonna break some AIs, i expect AIAI or CluelessPlus or whichever AIs that relly on vehicle names, or station names, will misbehave now
12:07:50 <Samu> have to check this further
12:11:05 <Samu> my AI is slightly affected. I don't name my vehicles, but now they're ugly named after their group
12:11:32 <Samu> and the log prints that name which makes it like grammar failure
12:12:13 <Samu> luckily, I don't rely on the vehicle name for real management
12:29:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhGxd
12:32:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLWOp
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13:41:13 <Samu> this loan interest actually affects my AI, that's impressive
13:44:28 <Samu> I wonder, how the heck did my AI increased the loan to 27 millions
13:45:22 <Samu> I don't have code to beg for max loan
13:47:49 <Samu> it loans as it needs money, and for some reason at one time it needed 27 millions? How?
13:53:49 <Samu> it's weird to see loan interest as the highest expense in the chart
14:12:29 <Samu> wrightAI had a weird crash
14:12:57 <Samu> "the index doesn't exist" on local dist = this.distance_of_route.rawget(v);
14:13:29 <Samu> the index here, is v, right?
14:14:00 <Samu> I suspect autoreplace now on for AIs being the culprit
14:23:30 <Samu> "excessive CPU usage in valuator function" continues to be the bane of many AIs
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15:47:00 <Samu> I finally see where these 27 millions come from
15:48:07 <Samu> i think my checks for detecting when to found a town is lacking something
15:49:07 <Samu> honestly, i didn't expect loans to be drastically increased
15:57:18 <Timberwolf> This makes AI pathfinding for passenger routes a lot easier. Start at your source town, lay track in a straight line until you find an obstacle, found a town where you stopped.
15:58:19 <LordAro> Samu: loans are only drastically increased if you increase them though? the default max limit should still be the same?
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15:59:28 <Samu> the default is still 300k
15:59:42 <Samu> but i'm just testing that huge loan scenario
16:08:59 <Timberwolf> I have learnt the hard way with GS - you can find the bug yourself in a test game, or you can have it reported in a test save for an obscure JGR version where 50% of the included newgrfs aren't on BaNaNaS.
16:10:55 <andythenorth> ^ this sort of thing is why I didn't make a GS yet
16:11:10 <andythenorth> impedance mismatch all over the place :P
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16:43:36 <_dp_> well, you can always ignore people that don't want their problem to be fixed :p
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17:45:43 <Samu> just fixed my AI and how it loans things
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17:49:10 <Samu> town actions require the AI to have no loan borrowed. This was already there. What wasn't there was that it would request the necessary amount of money once this was true.
17:49:30 <Samu> on the old 500k max loan, that wouldn't be much of a problem
17:50:39 <Samu> on 20 billion loan though, as soon as the AI had no loan borrowed, it would immediately found a town
17:51:59 <Samu> and get a loan interest based on 27 millions, which would cripple the AI long term
17:52:52 <Samu> now, it really needs to have 27 millions in bank, without loan, before founding a town
17:53:18 <Samu> it no longer needs to loan that amount
18:01:22 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:25:22 <TrueBrain> How did he find the GitHub, but not the edit button? That is impressive!
18:28:14 * Wolf01 is installing windows 10 on the phone... pom-de-pom
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18:41:03 <Wolf01> I had a lumia 950 sitting there unused and in perfect conditions, so I wanted to try windows 10 arm
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18:45:26 <LordAro> i find myself needing to break into a system
18:45:30 <LordAro> have lost access to root
18:52:26 <andythenorth> got physical access?
18:52:45 <LordAro> yes, but it's 3 miles away
18:53:52 <LordAro> aha, i have successfully remembered the root password
18:54:08 <LordAro> i won't say what it is, but it is hilariously insecure
18:57:20 * _dp_ feels like having root password in a first place is already hilariously insecure
18:57:56 <LordAro> useful for when winbind/ldap falls over though
18:58:06 <LordAro> and that is always a 'when' rather than 'if'
19:01:06 <_dp_> well, idk about ldap but the amount of pw bruteforcing I see in logs is terrifying
19:01:17 <LordAro> oh, root ssh is disabled
19:01:33 <LordAro> (this is an entirely internal server anyway)
19:04:35 <andythenorth> it's internal but you're going to get into it from 3 miles away? :)
19:05:18 * andythenorth was reading tweets about unsecured printer lolz earlier today
19:06:03 <Wolf01> Ok, windows 10 installed :P
19:06:09 <LordAro> andythenorth: as in, it's in the office
19:06:14 <Wolf01> It's configuring stuff now
19:06:15 <LordAro> not exposed to the internet
19:18:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you have one of those printers where you have to enter a tan before you get your printout?
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19:28:17 <TrueBrain> Azure is failing to build nightlies for 3 days straight now .. haven't looked into it
19:28:42 <andythenorth> frosch123 I don't print :P
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19:34:32 <LordAro> TrueBrain: "Target "openttd" requires the language dialect "CXX17" , but CMake does not know the compile flags to use to enable it."
19:34:41 <LordAro> cmake on the docker images too old?
19:35:05 <LordAro> that's just the docs build
19:35:26 <LordAro> windows is failing due to "##[error]src\currency.cpp(69,0): Error C2440: 'initializing': cannot convert from 'const char [3]' to 'char'
19:36:07 <LordAro> ah yeah, docs docker image is based on stretch
19:36:31 <TrueBrain> Time to review release workflow and switch, I guess ;)
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19:37:04 <TrueBrain> No clue why glx hasn't :p :p
19:37:29 <LordAro> MSVC not recognising the \u codes, perhaps?
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19:38:03 <TrueBrain> We never upgraded Azure DevOps builds
19:38:20 <TrueBrain> Guess they run an old MSVC
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19:38:52 <LordAro> -G "Visual Studio 15 2017" The C compiler identification is MSVC 19.16.27045.0
19:41:07 <TrueBrain> So happy we are switching to GHA, we have more understanding and control of that :D
19:42:20 <TrueBrain> Also a lot easier for other people to upgrade and debug.. :D
19:44:17 <andythenorth> I did get Azure building grfs
19:44:27 <andythenorth> but azure is ... for me ... weird
19:44:32 <andythenorth> like, it's nearly nice
19:46:57 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what's the date of the podcast?
19:47:03 <TrueBrain> It works lovely if you use Azure Devops for your code
19:47:54 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no clue! Good question :D
19:48:08 <TrueBrain> Guess we need organize it now :D
19:48:17 <TrueBrain> And not podcast, livestream!
19:48:29 <frosch123> well, yes, but it's mostly talking, isn't it?
19:48:57 <TrueBrain> We need to write out a short script to give it a bit of a body
19:49:20 <TrueBrain> I will see what I can do this weekend; then we can plan after
19:49:49 <frosch123> i guess that depends on the guest list?
19:50:25 <TrueBrain> Andy, you, me, who else said yes? :p
19:50:32 <andythenorth> can we just do a crappy guerilla test?
19:50:47 * andythenorth has much value in testing
19:51:40 <TrueBrain> Still have to poke nielsm about it too I have been told .. forgot :D
19:52:04 <TrueBrain> We are going to do a livestream!
19:52:15 <TrueBrain> We need help .. people told me you are the man!
19:52:45 <nielsm> I guess it's not closed
19:53:02 <frosch123> the idea was to take the pr list, and talk badly about them, to make sure there are never prs again
19:53:36 <TrueBrain> (Sorry, I am on mobile, hard to type :p)
19:53:43 <nielsm> Your OpenTTD PR Sucks - YOPS?
19:53:53 <TrueBrain> And we have a name!
19:54:17 <TrueBrain> Sounds a bit like yogcast, maybe not the best thing to do :(
19:54:31 <frosch123> we are heading for 50k live viewers, otherwise we will be disappointed and never do it again
19:55:10 <TrueBrain> Yet Another PR that Sucks .. YAPS :p
19:55:25 <frosch123> the top "just chatting" stream currently has 12.6k
19:55:35 <frosch123> and it's even german :/
19:55:39 <nielsm> you know what pulls 120k simultaneous viewers? telling your mom you're acting as a rabbit on the internet
19:55:43 <TrueBrain> If we get 100 I would be amazed
19:56:04 <TrueBrain> Anyway, you in nielsm?
19:56:17 <nielsm> hmm maybe, tbh I've been quite out of the loop for the past several months
19:56:23 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i certainly hope we do not get more, otherwise we also need mods
19:56:34 <nielsm> my github account is logged out
19:56:50 <nielsm> because I haven't visited the site at all
19:56:54 <TrueBrain> But you did twitch before people suggested?
19:57:04 <nielsm> actually YT livestreaming I've done
19:57:21 <nielsm> I know a bit about setup but not exactly experienced
19:57:21 <TrueBrain> Tomato tomato to me really :D
19:57:41 <TrueBrain> Well, we have 0 experience :p
19:58:08 <nielsm> so it'd be a voice chat thing showing the PRs I guess?
19:58:14 <frosch123> twitch chat is better, but ofc we can ignore chat and tell people to use discord
19:58:15 <michi_cc> Eddi is the gaming streaming around here, isn't he?
19:58:34 <TrueBrain> We also want to show a bit of gameplay
19:58:36 <frosch123> michi_cc: eddi is on 128kbit upload
19:58:44 <TrueBrain> Fuck around really :p
19:59:01 <TrueBrain> But I will write a bit out how it could look Saturday, and we can take it from there
19:59:09 <TrueBrain> I have some ideas for the format :D
19:59:16 <TrueBrain> Suggestions are welcome ofc :p
20:00:07 <nielsm> by showing gameplay, do you mean showing builds with the PR merged to demonstrate it?
20:00:22 <TrueBrain> Preview mode FTW :D
20:00:33 <nielsm> okay so that would require preparing a bunch of builds ahead of time
20:00:42 <TrueBrain> (PRs can now get a webbuild as preview)
20:00:54 <frosch123> nielsm: in case ou missed it, tb now links wasm builds to each pr
20:00:59 <TrueBrain> So that is all taken care of :D
20:02:10 <michi_cc> That works surprisingly well.
20:02:17 <TrueBrain> We have a RMTP relay ready, I have instructions for OBS, etc
20:02:27 <TrueBrain> So streaming should be easy there:D
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20:02:55 <TrueBrain> Glad to hear michi_cc :D
20:03:09 <nielsm> RTMP relay you mean hosting the stream ourselves instead of on a commercial site?
20:03:35 <TrueBrain> No, I have been told that it makes it possible for people to stream their OBS to it, so you can do overlays etc
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20:04:12 <TrueBrain> I know nothing about this crap btw :D just some people helping me set it up :D
20:04:17 <frosch123> sounds like 3 days of test steams :p
20:04:30 <TrueBrain> Discord sharing works too btw
20:06:06 <TrueBrain> Can we get AOC to join? That seems to be popular these days :p
20:06:55 <andythenorth> we can pay celebrities for a guest appearance :P
20:07:12 <FLHerne> frosch123: Hip US politician
20:07:19 <frosch123> first guest: firs author. second guest: horse author?
20:07:46 <andythenorth> £149 donated to charity, well spent
20:07:50 <TrueBrain> Why ... just ... why
20:08:14 <andythenorth> the usual, why not?
20:08:15 <FLHerne> You want Chris Sawyer really
20:08:28 <andythenorth> I believe that CS...does not do public appearances
20:08:30 <nielsm> CS would never touch ottd
20:08:38 <FLHerne> "which of these ideas do you thing *most* dilutes your original concept?"
20:08:39 <TrueBrain> Haha, yes, ask him what he thinks about certain PRs :D
20:08:43 <Wolf01> A full OS on a smartphone is epic... it even runs better than my old eeepc
20:09:13 <andythenorth> simon foster talked to V on Youtube
20:09:28 <frosch123> andythenorth: how did they meet on yt?
20:09:37 <frosch123> that looks unrelated to both
20:09:44 <andythenorth> V commented on SF video tutorials
20:10:00 <andythenorth> SF likes that we keep it going
20:10:01 <glx> boost is installed by vcpkg, cmake finds it in vcpkg installed packages, compiler doesn't
20:10:17 <andythenorth> someone who used to run a business with me knows Yogscast
20:10:38 <andythenorth> we could invite Yogscast to critique our PRs :P
20:10:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: sorry, pretty sure we don't want them :)
20:10:48 <TrueBrain> glx: cant open logs on mobile .. did you copy how release workflow does it?
20:11:05 <TrueBrain> For a first run, no
20:11:11 <TrueBrain> If we have more, possibly
20:11:22 <andythenorth> pikka has gone radio silent and quit twitter :|
20:11:27 <TrueBrain> But that would be insane pressure ;)
20:11:48 <frosch123> andythenorth: european timezone please :)
20:11:49 <TrueBrain> I rather have people we know and are active ;)
20:13:28 <glx> ok issue solved, it was a mistake in cmake
20:13:44 <andythenorth> 26th is a classic day for this
20:13:52 <andythenorth> 25th would be a rek
20:13:54 * glx slaps himself for not testing every cases in msvc
20:14:20 <TrueBrain> We also need time between setting a date and announcing it
20:14:30 <TrueBrain> So maybe aiming between xmas and new year
20:14:43 <frosch123> i am gone after xmas
20:15:10 <TrueBrain> I hope not permanent :p
20:15:54 <TrueBrain> I love the dramatic flair
20:16:31 <TrueBrain> Okay, so before xmas it is !
20:16:54 <frosch123> before or on xmas is fine for me
20:17:14 <frosch123> nerd stream for nerds without family :p
20:18:05 <TrueBrain> What is it they do on streams .. 1 for 24, 2 for 25? :p
20:19:51 <frosch123> i don't think we can fill a 24h stream
20:20:58 <andythenorth> how about 20 hours on the 20th?
20:26:36 <TrueBrain> Right, I am off; I will pick up the 'what' we are going to do .. means the 'when' and 'how' ;)
20:27:19 <TrueBrain> Was missing in the sentence :D
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20:36:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8308: Feature: Add cargo filter support to vehicle list. https://git.io/JLldV
20:37:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone updated pull request #8308: Feature: Add cargo filter support to vehicle list. https://git.io/JU4lE
20:42:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8308: Feature: Add cargo filter support to vehicle list. https://git.io/JLlFC
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21:01:25 <frosch123> pff. i cannot tell all those group patches apart
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21:03:14 <andythenorth> there have been many
21:03:22 <andythenorth> all seem individually useful
21:03:28 <andythenorth> but I don't know how they cohere
21:07:48 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JLlAP
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21:29:49 <frosch123> i think the discussions work better than the forums
21:30:50 <frosch123> they have some reddit-like features like some-threading and some-voting
21:31:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8371: Add: [Actions] release workflow for both releases and nightlies https://git.io/JLlh6
21:34:26 <andythenorth> no daylength discussion yet?
21:39:17 <_dp_> ppl learned it's hopeless by now :p
21:48:19 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: let me know what you have in mind and I'll see how we can fill in the how part.
21:49:12 <TrueBrain> Haha, IRC lags I think :p Tnx, I will :D
21:49:29 <TrueBrain> That leaves the when ;)
21:50:38 <frosch123> after a succesful testrun, before the 28th
21:50:38 <TrueBrain> Tnx glx!!! Will fix that bug tomorrow, fix one LordAro points out, and explain a bit how GHA works to him :D
21:50:53 <TrueBrain> Sounds fair frosch123 :)
21:51:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7947: Fix #7945: Add cost of clearing the sloped tile when placing a dock https://git.io/JvTH0
21:51:29 <TrueBrain> And I am off again :D
21:51:30 <Samu> just resolved a conflict due to regression.txt being changed
21:51:45 <Samu> thx to the new loan limit
21:55:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #8304: Feature: Show the cargoes the vehicles can carry in the list window. https://git.io/JL8vP
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22:43:49 <Xaroth> ... I'm starting to hate msvs
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22:51:51 <Xaroth> You're really making me work for this, LordAro :P :P
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22:54:02 <Xaroth> re: @params stuff, not all CargoSpec fields have proper documentation, so it's difficult to properly document _all_ the fields.
22:59:15 <LordAro> Xaroth: best effort would be appreciated
22:59:25 <LordAro> alternatively, you could document the CargoSpec fields!
22:59:42 <Xaroth> You're starting to sound a bit like TrueBrain :P
23:01:01 <Xaroth> It wasn't an insult, just an observation.
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23:32:13 <Xaroth> right, enough for today, nn o7
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