IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-12-03
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08:46:55 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: google now also found that most pages on the wiki are indeed gone; but because it was a 404, and not a 410 (gone), it is keeping it around for a bit to make sure it is really gone :P
08:47:02 <TrueBrain> but the crawler at least finally crawled everything
08:47:59 <TrueBrain> that results in funny things, like it saying an URL is not indexed on google, but you can find it just fine :P
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08:49:40 <andythenorth> 'eventually consistent'
08:53:46 <TrueBrain> manually requested the top 20 to be removed
08:53:49 <TrueBrain> hopefully that helps a bit :)
08:57:19 <TrueBrain> bing on the other hand did update the wiki already pretty well .. it mostly has ?title= URLs remaining, but it might take a bit of time before they realise those are the same as just / :P
09:33:32 <JohnnyB> Could this have anything to do with the wiki seemingly being completely borked up at the moment?
09:34:10 <andythenorth> pretty much a 1:1
09:34:20 <JohnnyB> Ah that explains a lot :-)
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09:35:50 <JohnnyB> I thought there had to be something going on
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10:19:58 <TrueBrain> well, I hope the wiki isn't borked :P
10:20:14 <TrueBrain> but as we have noticed, people correlate wiki with search results in a 1:1 :D
10:20:32 <TrueBrain> holy crap, how long does it take for google to process removal requests .. lol
11:07:39 <TrueBrain> that moment that CMake fucks up the CMAKE_CURRENT_SOURCE_DIR ... lol
11:12:12 <TrueBrain> ah, no, it doesn't; it just confused the hell out of me :D Haha .. builds in dockers can be weird :P
11:16:24 <TrueBrain> I guess nobody added cross-compile capabilities to OpenTTD's CMake? :)
11:17:05 <TrueBrain> strgen is always compiled for target, not for host :D Ghehe
11:21:14 <orudge> There is a possible patch for that
11:21:20 <orudge> I will need to apply it for Apple Silicon
11:21:24 <orudge> also for ARM64 for Windows :)
11:23:06 <TrueBrain> you sound like peter now :D "I have a patch for that" :P Mind sharing? :D
11:23:13 <TrueBrain> what you just said is not all too useful to me :D :)
11:23:46 <TrueBrain> for now I solved it by building on host, and copying the right files to target build folder ... works surprisingly :P
11:24:08 <TrueBrain> error: initial memory too small, 23460640 bytes needed .. why is it complaining about 23MB of RAM? :P
11:24:40 <orudge> TrueBrain: There's a PR for it
11:26:07 <orudge> My patch was MSVC-only I think, not much use for crosscompiling on other platforms
11:26:25 <TrueBrain> sweet, tnx, I will check it out :)
11:27:13 <TrueBrain> what glx suggests is what I was expecting, yes :)
11:27:45 <TrueBrain> not sure if there are other solutions for cross compiling with cmake, but that keeps it rather clean
11:28:29 <TrueBrain> your approach works too, but requires a lot more changes :)
11:28:30 <orudge> For Macs the best solution for building universal binaries (I know, I know :D) is to have the two build trees, then glue it together at the end. You can do a universal binary in a single build tree, but that gets complicated when one platform needs, say, SSE4 blitters and the other doesn't.
11:28:55 <TrueBrain> yeah, that used to be a big problem with the old configure stuff
11:29:02 <TrueBrain> but that was purely by accident
11:29:12 <TrueBrain> having a new build dir for each target is so much more clean
11:29:18 <TrueBrain> also for rebuilds, etc
11:29:28 <TrueBrain> well, I guess 3 people agree on that approach, so glx should PR it :)
11:35:48 <TrueBrain> lol ... openttd.wasm -> 100MB in size :D haha :D
11:39:39 <TrueBrain> a release build is just 6MB :P
11:39:45 <TrueBrain> you got to love debug symbols :)
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12:21:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8249: CMake: Not possible to cross-compile due to settinsgen/strgen https://git.io/JJvbJ
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13:08:31 <TrueBrain> so emscripten works fine with CMake too, which is nice :)
13:09:15 <andythenorth> it's interesting that the newgrf spec is forking again
13:10:36 <andythenorth> I wonder if that will be the death of nml or not
13:11:13 <andythenorth> JGR has custom newgrf spec, and m4nfo is supporting it
13:11:16 <TrueBrain> bit hyperbolic much? :)
13:11:45 <andythenorth> genuinely curious how platforms die
13:11:53 <TrueBrain> seeing death around you in the wake of innovation might be a bit drastic statement :D
13:12:38 <andythenorth> death always comes, I just find the transitions quite fascinating
13:12:39 <FLHerne> andythenorth: What's the new grf thing?
13:12:58 <FLHerne> (and why doesn't trunk have it, and should NML? :p)
13:12:59 <andythenorth> I imagine nml could support it in theory
13:13:41 <andythenorth> JGR probably has docs somewhere
13:13:43 <FLHerne> "Bias timetable adjustment to favour negative adjustments; this is to avoid positive feedback between congestion delays and increased timetable length."
13:13:57 <FLHerne> Hey, that's new, maybe the auto-timetabling actually works now
13:14:24 <LordAro> pretty sure JGR has a completely different timetable implementation anyway
13:14:35 <andythenorth> shall we have a sweepstake?
13:15:04 <andythenorth> how long until we convert the default OpenTTD binary to be a downstream consumer of JGR?
13:15:16 <andythenorth> I think 18 months
13:15:26 <LordAro> you've been saying that for at least 36
13:15:30 <FLHerne> Ah, it has an NML fork
13:16:11 <FLHerne> It could conceivably be worth doing
13:16:29 <FLHerne> Unlike most patchpacks, JGR's isn't an unmaintainable kludge
13:17:06 <andythenorth> I kind of see it as an inevitability
13:17:19 <andythenorth> once the newgrfs move to JGR, vanilla is over
13:17:36 <andythenorth> _assuming_ the TTDP pattern repeats
13:17:39 <FLHerne> andythenorth: One of the grfspec additions is a feature check
13:17:54 <TrueBrain> is your shelter made ready?
13:17:56 <TrueBrain> stacked enough cans?
13:18:06 <FLHerne> So it doesn't have to break everything
13:18:21 <FLHerne> I still think you're being over-something
13:18:52 <andythenorth> it's not a bad thing
13:18:57 <FLHerne> There's *always* been a big patchpack, and the forums have always told people to use it
13:19:07 <FLHerne> MiniIN, ChillPP, now this
13:19:26 <andythenorth> I am placing bets, not predicting doom
13:19:39 <TrueBrain> you could have fouled me
13:19:54 <FLHerne> JGR does have a whole lot of generically-useful stuff though
13:19:54 <andythenorth> I'd rather not foul you
13:20:08 * andythenorth unpleasant imagery
13:20:08 <FLHerne> Like the server perf improvements and better saveload
13:20:20 <FLHerne> Which is kind of new for a patchpack
13:20:27 <LordAro> there is an awful lot of stuff that would be excellent to have in vanilla
13:20:29 <FLHerne> (there was Cirdan's fork, but...)
13:20:45 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: fool, ffs :P
13:20:54 <LordAro> i do wish he'd try harder to get stuff included in vanilla
13:21:05 <andythenorth> not fowl TrueBrain ?
13:21:22 <TrueBrain> I am not a bird, am I?
13:21:35 <TrueBrain> LordAro: or the other way around: that you guys try harder to get it included in vanilla :)
13:21:49 <TrueBrain> it is a 2-way street :)
13:21:50 <LordAro> but that requires active developers
13:22:01 <LordAro> of which we have... 0.5?
13:22:12 <TrueBrain> well, it was an issue when there was 2+ active ones
13:22:18 <TrueBrain> I think it was even an issue when there were 5+
13:22:27 <TrueBrain> but, things can change! :P
13:22:56 <TrueBrain> did someone reply to the request for some tips and tricks to get started with an issue, on the issue tracker?
13:26:21 <TrueBrain> that is a cheap way to get some new people involved btw
13:26:41 <LordAro> i've not had time/inclination to look at it closely yet though
13:26:49 <LordAro> that bit of the code is full of side effects and weirdnesses
13:27:14 <TrueBrain> sadly, you are the only one being somewhat active to give it a proper look :( I don't like it all being on your shoulders ..
13:27:31 <TrueBrain> sadly, my C++ knowledge is .. euh ... "lacking", so I have not much useful to add there either
13:27:37 <andythenorth> I wasn't trying to guilt anyone into doing PRs :P
13:27:49 <TrueBrain> no, you were being your default emo ;)
13:27:49 <andythenorth> we have an actively moving patchpack, we really could just adopt it
13:28:19 <LordAro> there are (mostly good) reasons half the stuff in that patchpack has never been included in the game
13:29:10 <LordAro> mostly that reason is "stop hacking on the map array, rewrite it properly"
13:29:37 <TrueBrain> moving quick is fun, moving properly is slow :P
13:30:57 <andythenorth> I'm not sure what killed TTDP, whether it was lack of dev interest, or just the newgrfs
13:32:03 <LordAro> i've no idea about the grf side, but i think it lost all (but one) devs who actually knew how all the ASM worked
13:33:23 <andythenorth> the engine pool was a big deal for grf authors
13:33:40 <andythenorth> stuffing tiny amounts of vehicles into a TTDP-compatible version
13:33:46 <andythenorth> we just kinda stopped
13:34:32 <andythenorth> so do you play TTDP with all the stuff OpenTTD doesn't have? Or do you play NARS, FIRS, HEQS, NUTS?
13:44:33 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Being written in assembly and having to hack the base game around?
13:44:58 <andythenorth> also no mac support, eh?
13:45:03 <andythenorth> probably the _Most_ important thing
13:45:32 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Means the pool of potential contributors is tiny, and adding big new features like OTTD has would be unmaintainable
13:50:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JIqSA
13:50:58 <LordAro> see, that's why i didn't want to look at it in detail
13:50:58 <LordAro> found up to 3 other unrelated problems
13:51:42 <LordAro> FLHerne: just to play devil's advocate, OpenRCT2 started out in purely ASM, and they had loads of contributors
13:52:01 <LordAro> there's the whole "shiny new thing" of course, but...
13:53:06 <TrueBrain> nice reply LordAro :D
13:53:40 <FLHerne> LordAro: Well, but most of it's been rewritten to cpp now?
13:53:54 <FLHerne> Patch didn't really have that option, because of being a binary patch
13:54:30 <FLHerne> I guess you could probably come up with some shim-loader thing
13:54:40 <LordAro> that's how ORCT2 started out though
13:54:48 <LordAro> i was very dismissive of it :D
13:55:01 <FLHerne> But then you'd have to replace any function you touched, and then you have OTTD but loaded through a weird hack :p
13:56:35 <_dp_> that issue is a huge can of worms
13:56:42 <_dp_> adding id range check just masks the symptoms
13:57:31 <LordAro> _dp_: please feel free to interject
13:57:37 <LordAro> you did write that original patch, after all
13:58:35 <_dp_> yeah, but I don't remember anything anymore...
13:58:49 <TrueBrain> smoke weed every day :P
13:58:51 <_dp_> it did fix some more though xD
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14:28:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JIqN0
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16:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, satisfactory had an update of 208 bytes. is steam that good at making and compressing binary diffs?
16:20:01 <nielsm> it may just be a config file update of sorts?
16:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "BUG FIXES * Fixed Lizard Doggos moving erratically * Vehicles can now go through FICS*MAS gifts * Cosmetic and Audio related FICS*MAS fixes"
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17:01:03 <andythenorth> I have email: AWS bill is read!
17:01:07 <andythenorth> dare I read the bill?
17:03:28 <andythenorth> and not just any dollars
17:03:34 <TrueBrain> do we need to donate to you?
17:03:48 <andythenorth> yes please, but I have to levy a transaction fee
17:11:30 <andythenorth> USD Dollar dollars yes
17:19:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar updated pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JkpLU
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17:24:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JIm0a
17:25:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JIm0X
17:27:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JImEU
17:29:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JImEZ
17:30:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8350: Fix: [CMake] cross-compiling requires native tools https://git.io/JImEo
17:31:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JImEi
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17:32:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JImEx
17:56:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JIm2E
17:57:11 <TrueBrain> LordAro: for a first time contribution, I would just squash the PR afterwards, and not bother the contributor with diving into git too .. my 2 cents :)
17:58:43 <TrueBrain> anyone can squash after approval, as far as I know
17:59:20 <glx> yes, but merging without required checks is an issue
17:59:40 <TrueBrain> owh, yeah, well, 2 options there: 1, squash the branch of the user yourself, 2, LordAro is admin :P
18:09:10 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar updated pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JkpLU
18:10:10 <LordAro> if i was actually going to merge the PR, i probably would
18:10:30 <LordAro> but since it's not done, it's annoying to have to say "just ignore it" or similar, as other problems will probably get introduced
18:15:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8350: Fix: [CMake] cross-compiling requires native tools https://git.io/JImwe
18:21:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar updated pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JkpLU
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18:24:04 <LordAro> they're mixing editing locally and via the web interface
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18:33:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar updated pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JkpLU
18:37:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar updated pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JkpLU
18:40:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar updated pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JkpLU
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18:48:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Foxar commented on pull request #8346: Fix #6598: Added company id check for connect console command. https://git.io/JIm6L
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20:03:44 <frosch123> glx: why is Switch.register_map a dict? i don't see how it could have more than one key
20:20:40 <FLHerne> frosch123: I think some calling code doesn't care if it's looking at Switch.register_map, SpriteLayout.register_map, or possibly other things
20:20:56 <FLHerne> s/calling code/code that uses register_map/
20:21:14 <FLHerne> yay undocumented duck-typing
20:21:34 <frosch123> well, i deleted it, and the regression runs fine
20:21:42 <frosch123> we have complete test coverage, right? :)
20:23:51 <FLHerne> It's not actually *that* bad
20:24:01 <FLHerne> coverage.py says 70-80% for most files
20:24:26 <FLHerne> (by lines, not counting all possible control-flow paths)
20:24:54 <FLHerne> Deleted what? All of register_map?
20:26:17 <frosch123> i replaced {} with None, and register_map[foo] with register_map
20:26:42 <frosch123> so, essentially i deleted the key
20:31:33 <frosch123> well, i claim, if i blow it up, it was broken before :p
20:31:38 <FLHerne> IIUC, `target` there can be either a spritegroup or a switch
20:31:55 <FLHerne> Or did you change it for spritegroups also?
20:31:57 <frosch123> ah, well, i did the same for spritegroup
20:32:42 <frosch123> but ok, i learn that Switch uses the dict because SpriteGroup did?
20:32:51 <frosch123> and the reasoning for SpriteGroup is lost in history
20:34:08 <FLHerne> I'd have to look at it more, but I strongly suspect there is an actual reason
20:41:36 <glx> ] <frosch123> but ok, i learn that Switch uses the dict because SpriteGroup did? <-- seems so yes, I think I just copied stuff
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20:56:00 <andythenorth> found the 'make discord look like irc' setting
20:56:05 <andythenorth> now I just need to find the notifications
20:56:10 <andythenorth> and turn them all off
20:57:26 <glx> there are some settings in options, else it's per server
20:58:07 <andythenorth> discord seems pretty good
20:58:14 <andythenorth> can't leave it open long, it hogs Chrome
20:58:35 <glx> I think I never used the web version
20:58:51 <andythenorth> everything hogs chrome on the mac tbh
20:59:01 <andythenorth> it wipes out most of my cores pretty easily
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21:02:26 <dwfreed> andythenorth: discord mac app works a lot better than the web version (which is funny, because the app is just electron)
21:03:15 <andythenorth> hmm not on the app store
21:03:33 <dwfreed> you have to download it from discord
21:03:48 <dwfreed> it self-updates, which is a no-no for the App Store
21:04:19 <andythenorth> will have to have a security assessment
21:04:50 <andythenorth> oh it is quite a nice generator of CVEs it seems :)
21:05:14 <glx> discord changelogs are fun to read
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21:21:25 <FLHerne> tbf, so are IRC clients
21:45:18 <FLHerne> Or at least a yea/nay on whether the second patch is a good idea
21:46:31 <glx> ah yes I like the idea, but didn't really check
21:58:32 <TrueBrain> pretty sure you are an adult and don't need permission :P
22:02:32 <andythenorth> I like to crowdsource my thoughts
22:02:57 <andythenorth> sometimes the crowd is an ass though
22:03:04 <FLHerne> Now is play-with-dog time
22:03:25 <FLHerne> He's bored because we only went out briefly because it's raining
22:03:26 <andythenorth> it's probably stop-writing-html time also?
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22:23:12 <supermop_Home> got a big box of socks from japan today
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22:39:45 <andythenorth> supermop_Home in BR colours?
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22:51:05 <supermop_Home> andythenorth not quite. actually the color is off from what i'd specified
22:51:23 * andythenorth sees future town excitement
22:51:39 <supermop_Home> attempted to match the faded sign of closed butcher's shop on my block
22:51:46 <supermop_Home> town thing looks neat
22:51:55 <frosch123> will flake tomorrow
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22:52:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #173: Fix: Access to persistent storage of towns https://git.io/JIYJY
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