IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-11-30
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12:58:11 <andythenorth> who wanted narrow gauge iron wagons?
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17:40:48 <Timberwolf> Well. Not cool, technically. Molten!
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17:49:04 <andythenorth> so also have I done enough UK Horse engines Timberwolf? o_O
17:49:11 <andythenorth> might stop adding them soon
17:56:43 <Timberwolf> I can't think of anything missing other than a 2020s re-envisioning of the Cycloped.
17:58:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/aws-infra] LordAro merged pull request #4: Add: ansible playbook for configuring new caching content servers https://git.io/JkCEU
17:58:27 <DorpsGek_III> - Add: Basic ansible playbook for configuring new caching content servers (by LordAro)
17:59:54 <andythenorth> I tried adding a class 65 (proposed high power 60), but I can't make it look good, class 60 is just a box, and I have 3 variants already
18:00:22 <andythenorth> I could use the proposed version with inverted French cab windows, but it's hard to draw :P
18:05:43 <Timberwolf> The Class 60 has a very :-| "face".
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19:20:23 <supermop_Home_> fancy factory Eddi|zuHause
19:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i copied that layout from another person, who couldn't get it to work
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20:00:17 <andythenorth> vehicle wagons carrying pax?
20:07:08 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Well, the vehicle wagons don't carry pax
20:09:08 <andythenorth> I know, that is the question
20:09:26 <andythenorth> is it worth deviating from RL to have that in the game?
20:10:53 <TrueBrain> there can be pax in the cars on the wagons
20:12:20 <TooTallTyler> What about decreasing the cargo decay rate of passenger carriages if there are motorail wagons attached to the train? I think the cargo_age_period callback could be used for this.
20:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's trains that carry cars (or trucks) and passengers
20:12:41 <andythenorth> TooTallTyler hi :)
20:12:55 <andythenorth> cargo_age_period is pretty much useless
20:13:15 <andythenorth> one story goes that it was only added as a hack to support very large maps, which are otherwise broken with the payment algorithm
20:13:19 <andythenorth> as a newgrf feature, it's junk
20:13:42 <andythenorth> I spent a long time testing it one weekend
20:14:05 <TooTallTyler> I've been using the luxury carriages in Iron Horse but have never really paid attention to differences in payments vs. regular carriages
20:17:32 <TooTallTyler> Is the difference insignificant or is something else broken?
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20:19:07 <andythenorth> most of us seem to approach decay rate as something that could boost payment for certain classes of vehicle
20:19:21 <andythenorth> but actually it can only ever slow the penalty
20:19:45 <andythenorth> and the penalty is quite negligible on sensibly sized maps
20:20:31 <andythenorth> one option is to increase the penalty on most vehicles, and then 'boost' a limited subset back to normal
20:20:35 <TrueBrain> why is the test map on her period? Odd experiments ..
20:21:39 <andythenorth> but messing with payment rate for most vehicles is punitive
20:21:48 <andythenorth> makes those vehicles hard to use, so why bother
20:23:08 <TooTallTyler> And you get side effects with users playing with multiple vehicle grfs, plus base cargo decay rates are defined in industry grfs...yeesh
20:23:48 <andythenorth> one thing 'special' vehicles could do is boost station ratings
20:23:53 <andythenorth> which would actually be useful
20:23:59 <andythenorth> more so than payment
20:24:21 <TooTallTyler> That was my next thought. Money becomes meaningless so quickly.
20:25:10 <andythenorth> also, when someone says 'GameScript' we have all won bingo and can go home
20:25:27 <andythenorth> it's always proposed as the solution to newgrf problems at some point
20:25:56 <TrueBrain> well, you just did, so FREEEEDOOOMMMM /me runs home naked
20:27:37 <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you need solacement for the pending death of DorpsGek?
20:28:02 <TrueBrain> I cannot bring myself to do it :(
20:28:05 <TrueBrain> it feels so bad ....
20:28:48 <frosch123> i am not sure. is that a scene from life of brian?
20:29:07 <TrueBrain> haven't seen that movie in ages ... good xmas movie!
20:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause> is xmas cancelled yet for this year?
20:30:49 <frosch123> move it to summer, better weather
20:31:58 <frosch123> do you want to be young again?
20:32:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I guess you should be lucky there is no-one from Australia awake! :P
20:32:08 <frosch123> or are you worrying about what your kids may be doing?
20:32:25 <TrueBrain> these are his kids :P
20:32:42 <TrueBrain> they moved to Spain and everything trolls
20:34:21 <andythenorth> look how sunny it is in spain right now
20:34:25 * andythenorth looks out window at darkness
20:34:46 <TrueBrain> it is dark in Spain right now :P
20:35:08 <andythenorth> look in the video feed
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20:35:43 <TooTallTyler> It's only 2:35pm where I am but it's dark and raining
20:36:25 <TrueBrain> pm .... guess the nationality purely on the way time is described :P
20:36:41 <TooTallTyler> We have stupid units here :P
20:36:55 <TrueBrain> but am/pm for sure is one of the worst
20:37:09 <TrueBrain> it simply makes no sense .... 11am, 12pm, 1pm ... who .... in his right mind .... I mean ... WTF?!
20:39:39 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: downside, complexity and making it work gameplay-wise. Upside, I could draw some Allegros. Compelling case for doing it!
20:41:03 <TooTallTyler> and I'd probably recognize a car on a flatcar faster than your stationary steam engine (which is very nice once I looked closely) ;)
20:43:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TinCanTech opened issue #8349: Minor inconsistency in Depot List Window behaviour https://git.io/JIvZj
20:44:52 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I'll do it if you will :P
20:45:04 <andythenorth> like when me and pikka agreed everything is station refittable :P
20:45:32 <andythenorth> we just pretend people stay in the cars, eurotunnel style
20:48:39 <andythenorth> TooTallTyler but when I do the US Horse, the FEMA-train nuts will appear
20:48:44 <andythenorth> if I make autoracks transport pax
20:49:42 <TooTallTyler> I can see the reddit posts already
20:50:38 <TooTallTyler> I think the original video for that was a parody that people took seriously
20:50:56 <TooTallTyler> oh no, I haven't seen that
20:51:34 <andythenorth> hmm do I really want to go down this rabbithole again?
20:52:51 <TooTallTyler> I've never truly been down that rabbithole until now. I regret this.
20:53:54 <TooTallTyler> Let's just forget about Auto Train for now
20:54:03 <TooTallTyler> I guess they could carry mail instead
20:55:04 <andythenorth> new cargo, cars :P
20:55:15 <andythenorth> we don't have nearly enough town<->town cargos
20:55:19 <andythenorth> many more needed
20:56:22 <andythenorth> printer cartridges
20:56:37 <andythenorth> secondhand wedding dresses
20:56:45 <TooTallTyler> Murican FIRS can have auto terminals which work like scrap yards, based on population
20:56:57 <TooTallTyler> printer cartridges are VALU
20:58:41 <andythenorth> I am quite seriously going to try using vehicle deliveries to boost scrap production
20:59:45 <TooTallTyler> I don't know how I feel about specific cargos to towns though. Goods is generic enough to use with cargodist, if one wants to set up a consumer goods network rather than dumping the entire map's production into whatever town gets a goods station first. Refit to available cargo doesn't play nicely with cargodist, apparently
21:00:07 <andythenorth> it does and it doesn't
21:02:49 <TooTallTyler> re: scrap cars, when I added waste to Improved Town Layouts, I tried to have houses only generate waste if the town had received goods in the past month. Unfortunately houses can't access their parent town's permanent storage so I couldn't keep track of this
21:03:46 <TooTallTyler> can industries access that register? If cars are delivered to the dealership, surely residents will be getting rid of their old junkers?
21:13:28 <andythenorth> industries can access town registers
21:13:36 <andythenorth> I didn't know houses couldn't :)
21:15:10 <frosch123> houses can't? they should
21:15:15 <andythenorth> after FIRS 4 is done, I'm going to experiment with a 'town boost' concept
21:15:32 <andythenorth> where delivering to towns can have gameplay effects, via town register
21:16:56 <frosch123> that does not look related
21:17:08 * andythenorth looks in nfo spc
21:18:31 <frosch123> it's exactly the same as for industries :)
21:19:07 <andythenorth> oh but sandboxed by grfid?
21:19:12 <andythenorth> so we can't all write over each other?
21:19:23 <frosch123> yes, write is per grfid
21:19:51 <andythenorth> I assumed co-operating over locations would be necssary
21:20:06 <TooTallTyler> That makes sense
21:20:15 <andythenorth> town effects are under explored
21:20:33 <andythenorth> also TooTallTyler, do you play only Temperate? o_O
21:21:00 * andythenorth would like ITL for the other climates :)
21:21:07 <andythenorth> well...not Toyland
21:21:38 <TooTallTyler> Mostly, yes. The climate restriction is because the other climates have very few sprites compared to Temperate
21:22:09 <TooTallTyler> but I'm working on a new town set with custom graphics which will work in all climates (but look odd in desert and toyland)
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21:23:19 <andythenorth> ITL is very good
21:24:49 <TooTallTyler> at 1x they're not quite as pretty as hand-drawn, but they're so much faster for me
21:27:09 <TooTallTyler> Going back to town registers, how would I specify my GRFID when reading or writing? I don't think it's automatic, since I got NMLC errors when I tried
21:28:30 <andythenorth> you stuff it into a register
21:29:52 <andythenorth> maybe it's just a var
21:30:02 <andythenorth> my old code seems to use 0x25
21:31:50 <andythenorth> you either know your grfid and hard-code, or you can pick it out with a var and put it in the temp register
21:32:00 <andythenorth> "The GRFID to access must be stored in temporary register 0x100 before checking variable 7C. 0xFFFFFFFF can be used to access the GRFID of the item using the current VariationalAction2 chain."
21:34:18 <andythenorth> I have train examples, but they are all wrong for houses, so might be misleading
21:35:02 <TooTallTyler> I wouldn't mind seeing them anyway, just to see the syntax
21:35:25 <andythenorth> I am reading nml source to see if it supports var 7C
21:36:34 <frosch123> its the regular STORE_PERM/LOAD_PERM
21:37:31 <andythenorth> ha found it in nml thanks :)
21:39:13 <andythenorth> what's not clear is whether grfid needs to be put into register 0x100 with NML
21:40:48 <TooTallTyler> I was hoping that was the source of my error :(
21:41:17 <TooTallTyler> Unfortunately I never committed the code so I can't go back and test, but I'll try again sometime and see what happens
21:41:19 <andythenorth> feature is 0x08?
21:41:35 <andythenorth> 0x08 is global settings no?
21:42:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: i do not know whether that nml bug was fixed
21:42:55 <frosch123> nml#26 and nml#28 is a mess
21:42:57 <andythenorth> I _think_ L456 supports giving an alternative grfid also, but I'm not sure how that would be set
21:43:15 <andythenorth> is it an additional undocumented parameter on the LOAD_TEMP()
21:44:01 <andythenorth> also why is the grfid being given for a store anyway?
21:44:07 <andythenorth> spec says store is self-only?
21:44:59 <andythenorth> no I should learn to read code better
21:45:15 * andythenorth sticks to pixels :P
21:49:09 <andythenorth> ok so probably a test grf, ideally in nml examples or tests
21:49:15 * andythenorth won't be doing that right now
21:49:33 <andythenorth> then we can see what actually works, fix what's broken, and update the docs
21:49:40 <andythenorth> it's like NRT all over again oof :|
21:52:25 <TooTallTyler> I wish I could help somehow but I'll cheer on any efforts while I continue learning the basics
21:52:59 <andythenorth> I won't touch it now, I have a to-do list as long as both arms
21:53:25 <andythenorth> but when it's time for FIRS 9, Now Featuring Town Boost
21:54:11 <andythenorth> meanwhile it seems Iron Horse has no concept of 'too many wagons'
21:55:29 <TooTallTyler> I wonder if some might be alternate sprites for different cargo refits, rather than all appearing in the buy menu
21:55:56 <TooTallTyler> the fruit wagon comes to mind here
21:57:36 <andythenorth> the fruit wagon also struck me as disposable
21:57:46 <andythenorth> partly because it's ugly
21:59:31 <TooTallTyler> I was thinking more that it has a specific cargo
22:02:11 <TooTallTyler> Same goes for the Vehicle Parts Van / Sliding Wall Van, Stake Wagon / Flat Wagon, Grain / Covered / Pellet hoppers, Silo / Cement wagons, Edibles / Product tanker, maybe Rock/ Ore/ Hopper, and the Mineral / Scrap wagons
22:02:57 <TooTallTyler> I think some of those could be sprites of another which are automatically selected based on the cargo
22:03:20 <TooTallTyler> Unless you're trying to avoid station refits changing sprites?
22:03:29 <andythenorth> I did try cargo-specific sprites
22:03:41 <andythenorth> but it's just annoying when you want to make a train of certain wagons
22:03:51 <andythenorth> the Horse wagons are basically a train set
22:04:32 <TooTallTyler> To be clear, I don't mind separate wagons in the buy menu, just brainstorming ways to simplify if you so chose
22:04:48 <andythenorth> eventually someone will fork it :)
22:05:21 <TooTallTyler> Prepare for a lot of Python questions when they do :)
22:06:37 <TooTallTyler> Is that a sliding wall van? Never seen one outside of Iron Horse
22:06:51 <andythenorth> that's a sliding roof van
22:06:53 <TooTallTyler> All our boxcars over here look about the same
22:06:57 <TooTallTyler> For steel coils?
22:07:08 <andythenorth> steel coils, palettised goods
22:07:52 <andythenorth> US has such a huge system, and so many pooled vehicles
22:08:11 <andythenorth> it seems to have very few specialised types
22:08:22 <andythenorth> unless they just never make it into HO models and foamer websites?
22:09:09 <TooTallTyler> No, that's accurate
22:09:46 <andythenorth> I found a few oddities, but not many
22:10:52 <andythenorth> I've got a couple of HO pressure tank cars and a carbon black hopper
22:10:58 <andythenorth> and the shorty tankers
22:11:41 <TooTallTyler> Skeleton log cars are neat
22:12:36 <andythenorth> there are quite a lot of open hopper types
22:12:43 <andythenorth> and centerflows are not all the same
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