IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-11-13
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00:00:28 <frosch123> well, they no longer need to edit it to link translations :p
00:05:05 <TrueBrain> hmm, maybe I should use forkserver instead of spawn
00:05:09 <TrueBrain> that leaves the server running in the background
00:05:15 <TrueBrain> means OOMs happen or at the start
00:05:31 <TrueBrain> too much chance something else breaks
00:07:16 <frosch123> are you also serving the images via aiohttp?
00:07:24 <frosch123> and the other static files?
00:07:44 <frosch123> so, the same as gollum, just faster
00:07:51 <TrueBrain> insanely faster, yes
00:08:30 <TrueBrain> something I do plan to fix btw
00:08:51 <TrueBrain> okay, do I index metadata slower, giving a more responsive system during
00:08:56 <TrueBrain> or faster, making it more laggy
00:09:39 <TrueBrain> it takes ~288 seconds to build on the server .. I now added a 50 second delay
00:09:44 <TrueBrain> I guess that is a fair balance
00:10:32 <TrueBrain> anyway, for the static files .. I guess I put CloudFront before this service, with a cache-time of like 5 minutes
00:10:48 <TrueBrain> means that an edit becomes visible within 5 minutes
00:11:07 <TrueBrain> sounds like a cheap solution for now
00:11:15 <TrueBrain> (owh, and cache is ignored if you have the wiki_sid cookie)
00:12:52 <TrueBrain> so, 80MB + 50MB = 130MB .. let's call it 192, should be sufficient
00:12:58 <TrueBrain> that is 50% the current value :P
00:14:07 <frosch123> same value as with the old data, magic :)
00:14:28 <TrueBrain> 2020-11-13 00:14:11 INFO Loading metadata done; took 306.29 seconds <- took 188 before I added a slight delay
00:14:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
00:19:28 <TrueBrain> I will merge it in a sec
00:20:43 <TrueBrain> if any of the GitHub runners want to kick in ...
00:21:00 <TrueBrain> right .. try it out now frosch123 :)
00:21:31 <TrueBrain> I am curious what you think of the lag
00:21:47 <TrueBrain> (as in, test it locally; deploying this will take a bit longer :D)
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00:23:10 <frosch123> yeah, it's a bit slower :)
00:23:24 <frosch123> he, dutch was indexed first :p
00:23:51 <TrueBrain> during indexing strange things can happen
00:23:55 <frosch123> it's funny how the page changes on every reload
00:23:58 <TrueBrain> deduplication and ordering is done at the end
00:24:38 <TrueBrain> but yeah ... it takes ~5 minutes once
00:24:41 <frosch123> it has many languages, but not en :)
00:24:44 <TrueBrain> and how-ever-many-pages you hit after
00:25:07 <TrueBrain> where - is the worst page I could find
00:25:12 <TrueBrain> which touches I believe 40% of the pages :P
00:26:37 <frosch123> is it still? we deleted all those after other_languages
00:26:49 <TrueBrain> owh, then it might not
00:26:56 <TrueBrain> I got that 40% value from before you did that :P
00:27:31 <TrueBrain> funny, it now consumes more memory on staging :D
00:27:45 <frosch123> though some of them are in templates, so it may spread from there
00:27:52 <TrueBrain> yeah, that was the issue .. templates :P
00:27:57 <TrueBrain> templates on templates on templates
00:29:20 <TrueBrain> k, deploying to production
00:29:28 <frosch123> loadnig metadata done
00:29:39 <frosch123> it took not longer than before for me
00:29:48 <TrueBrain> I removed the delay in the end
00:29:55 <TrueBrain> I noticed it either doesn't use 100% CPU
00:30:02 <TrueBrain> and where it ends up, depends on the CPU
00:30:09 <TrueBrain> so either the latency was < 200ms
00:30:15 <TrueBrain> so meh .. what-ever ...
00:31:09 <TrueBrain> okay, old version operates at 42% memory, and that is without the fork() that is being made when ever needed
00:31:16 <TrueBrain> (as that is too short for the metrics to pick it up)
00:33:26 <TrueBrain> service Live-Production-Wiki was unable to place a task because no container instance met all of its requirements. The closest matching container-instance NNN has insufficient memory available. For more information
00:33:30 <TrueBrain> I was afraid of that :D
00:34:22 <TrueBrain> I just killed the current pod :P
00:35:08 <frosch123> what? aws is out of cpu power?
00:35:15 <TrueBrain> our cluster is out of memory
00:36:53 <TrueBrain> and I can either add 2 more nodes, or scale the current nodes up
00:36:56 <TrueBrain> both have their advantages
00:37:01 <TrueBrain> something for this weekend or what-ever
00:37:58 <TrueBrain> I triggered a metadata scan
00:38:07 <TrueBrain> it is .. noticeable :D
00:38:25 <TrueBrain> by the time people complain, it is restored :P
00:38:25 <frosch123> yes, mostly because of the flags
00:38:34 <TrueBrain> yeah, some caching will fix that
00:38:50 <TrueBrain> seems aiohttp sends annoying cache headers
00:38:54 <TrueBrain> it revalidates constantly
00:40:03 <TrueBrain> (this is editing Template/en/- btw .. it is still busy :P)
00:40:21 <TrueBrain> such a horrible template to edit :)
00:41:23 <TrueBrain> memory is at 30% .. that is a huge difference :P Lol
00:41:39 <TrueBrain> ah, reindex is done :P
00:42:40 <TrueBrain> right, let me redeploy a lower memory pod .. and that is enough for 1 day :P
00:42:49 <TrueBrain> tomorrow I add the if-error-go-readonly
00:43:02 <TrueBrain> and see about some decent caching
00:43:45 <TrueBrain> this is btw the biggest drawback of Python .. its GIL :P
00:44:09 <TrueBrain> if they ever manage to remove it, or at least make it less annoying for threading ... dammmnnnnn
00:44:45 <TrueBrain> like: I-know-what-I-am-doing-this-code-is-self-contained, or whatever :P
00:48:14 <TrueBrain> euh ... git cloning no longer works now :P Lol ...
00:48:18 <TrueBrain> this is the evening of the weird shit :D
00:48:34 <frosch123> not enough memory for git? :p
00:49:04 <TrueBrain> that would be very odd :P
00:49:13 <TrueBrain> I think it is the ssh that is giving shit
00:49:27 <TrueBrain> error: github.com:OpenTTD/wiki-data.git did not send all necessary objects
00:50:13 <frosch123> no mail yet about pull quota :p
00:50:37 <TrueBrain> this morning I had issues connecting to github.com too
00:50:42 <TrueBrain> Heroku had an error earlier
00:50:50 <TrueBrain> not sure what is going on with GitHub today :)
00:50:55 <TrueBrain> they are having a bad day it seems
00:51:05 <frosch123> true. it also registered a new host key
00:51:37 <TrueBrain> 3rd attempt, also failing ...
00:51:41 <TrueBrain> it worked at 00:36 :P
00:52:44 <TrueBrain> ssh is always a bit more annoying, I have to say .. but for BaNaNaS it has worked out fine so far
00:58:01 <TrueBrain> owh well, sounds like a problem for tomorrow-me
01:11:27 <TrueBrain> haha, it was memory .... and one surprising one .. "git clone" requires 230MB of RAM to clone that repo :D
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10:45:02 <orudge> TrueBrain: Has DorpsGek gone mad? 4198 e-mails (GitHub notifications) from it overnight...
10:47:06 <TrueBrain> I have NO idea what happened there and why it was allowed :(
10:48:05 <TrueBrain> that GitHub didn't rate limit that ...
10:49:15 <TrueBrain> don't know why you got 4198 emails, it should be 2100 :P
10:49:41 <orudge> I was going on the "order received" column in Thunderbird :D
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10:51:19 <TrueBrain> really cannot believe GitHub doesn't spam-protect this
10:52:53 <SpComb> did it trigger a new inspection of the issue description and comment for every github hook comment notification? :P
10:52:54 <TrueBrain> but ... do you think he got the message? :P :P :P
10:53:31 <LordAro> i didn't realise it actually bothered to check the entire template
10:53:50 <TrueBrain> which is stated pretty clearly around the markers
10:53:50 <LordAro> surely just searching for `<!-- translator: <lang> -->` would actually be enough?
10:54:14 <TrueBrain> once again, maybe better to ask why we did it this way, than the start with a judgement ;)
10:54:31 <TrueBrain> but we wanted to prevent people changing the language in the text, meaning DorpsGek would add people to other languages than the text describes
10:54:50 <TrueBrain> so it validates up to the <!-- Please do not edit the above message. Do feel free to add a personal note after this line. -->
10:54:55 <TrueBrain> I mean, it is not that the marker isn't clear :P
10:55:10 <TrueBrain> and he added above the marker .. like .. RIGHT above it
10:55:37 <TrueBrain> so I don't blame DorpsGek for shutting this down, as in: learn to read
10:55:42 <TrueBrain> but ... it shouldn't do that 2100 times :D
10:57:39 <LordAro> i'm surprised we managed to miss testing the "has modified template" case
10:58:01 <TrueBrain> I did test it, that is the worst part
10:58:12 <LordAro> but yeah, i see it in the code - gets a new comment and validates the main post
10:58:18 <LordAro> regardless of who sent the last comment :p
10:58:32 <TrueBrain> yup .. and it should only check on issue, not on comment
10:58:59 <LordAro> well... maybe? they could change it between issue & comment
10:59:10 <LordAro> which presumably is what you were trying to protect against
10:59:15 <TrueBrain> but there is no trigger on edits
10:59:21 <TrueBrain> hmm, no, I get what you mean
10:59:30 <TrueBrain> well, I was mostly trying to protect against jokers doing that while creating the ticket
10:59:34 <TrueBrain> did not consider the editing scenario
10:59:55 <TrueBrain> okay, so the main fix is simply: do not trigger if DorpsGek did it
11:01:00 <TrueBrain> can you put an if on a job ..
11:01:23 <LordAro> wouldn't be much harder to modify the python itself?
11:02:08 <LordAro> check for membership of bots
11:02:13 <LordAro> or whatever the group name is
11:02:52 <TrueBrain> I was thinking about this ^^ ?
11:04:44 <LordAro> i was thinking about `if is_part_of_team(login, "it-s-a-bot-s-world"): return`
11:04:53 <LordAro> yes, that's apparently the group's name :p
11:05:02 <TrueBrain> why do it in Python if you can already do it in the workflow?
11:05:17 <TrueBrain> I don't see the benefit of it? (honest question)
11:06:17 <LordAro> well the workflow is technically separate from the code
11:06:55 <TrueBrain> yes .. and the workflow is the reason it is done under DorpsGek (as he feeds his token)
11:07:02 <TrueBrain> so he knows to ignore DorpsGek
11:07:13 <TrueBrain> in the code, it can be a bit odd .. as what-ever-else executes the code
11:07:17 <TrueBrain> doesn't have to be a bot, or in the group
11:07:31 <TrueBrain> so who to ignore is a bit harder, if you want to do it cleanly
11:07:35 <TrueBrain> would mean you first hav eto request who you are
11:07:38 <TrueBrain> and ignore that person
11:07:45 <TrueBrain> which is also a fine route to go, but .. ugh, lot of code :P
11:08:58 <TrueBrain> bit untested, but I believe in documentation
11:09:56 <LordAro> just as well i unwatched the team repo a few days ago :p
11:10:08 <TrueBrain> I am happy orudge reported this :)
11:10:16 <TrueBrain> pretty sure the user itself wouldn't have had a real way to report it :P
11:10:59 <TrueBrain> euhm ... why didn't it see that I changed the topic ... lol
11:11:53 <TrueBrain> huh .... I don't get that :P
11:11:53 <LordAro> well i guess it's kind of an improvement
11:12:26 <TrueBrain> but how did this happen code-wise?
11:13:34 <TrueBrain> owh, I see I missed another "return"
11:13:46 <TrueBrain> but that is not the cause
11:14:08 <TrueBrain> not often that I am like: huh?
11:14:11 <TrueBrain> but I am like: huh?
11:17:58 <TrueBrain> I am just going to rerun the task
11:18:01 <TrueBrain> that much I cannot believ ethis
11:25:07 <TrueBrain> ah, no, the code does allow changes before that line too
11:25:20 <TrueBrain> we are a bit more forgiven
11:26:24 <TrueBrain> really changed a line
11:26:34 <TrueBrain> I would like to ask for access to help translating OpenTTD
11:26:40 <TrueBrain> I would like to ask for access to help to translate OpenTTD
11:26:55 <TrueBrain> (first is what the template defines, second is what he changed it into)
11:27:04 <TrueBrain> that is why it got refused; not so much because of the text he added
11:28:30 <LordAro> what an odd sort of change
11:29:06 <TrueBrain> okay, no more SkyNet, I now proved it!
11:29:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] TrueBrain opened pull request #86: Fix: one more place where it didn't return a tuple where was expected https://git.io/JkYqT
11:29:15 <TrueBrain> and one more fix :D
11:29:39 <TrueBrain> took me a long time to find what he changed btw, it is rather subtle
11:30:11 <TrueBrain> and it is not like an old text of ours
11:30:17 <TrueBrain> so I can only deduce it was really him that changed it
11:30:29 <TrueBrain> overly-pedantic? Not sure ..
11:30:44 <TrueBrain> but okay, the code also allows you to add a line just before the <!-- marker, which clearly helps as people do not really read :)
11:30:47 <TrueBrain> which is fine by me, honestly :)
11:34:13 <TrueBrain> awh, I cannot self-approve that PR :P
12:01:36 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i'm now at my work computer, and can't be bothered to get the authenticator app open to log in :p
12:02:08 <TrueBrain> well, you do you! :P
12:02:13 <TrueBrain> but I expect a +1 tonight :D
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12:25:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 approved pull request #86: Fix: one more place where it didn't return a tuple where was expected https://git.io/JkYsi
12:25:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] TrueBrain merged pull request #86: Fix: one more place where it didn't return a tuple where was expected https://git.io/JkYqT
12:30:28 <TrueBrain> I really do not understand HTTP Cache Control, it seems :P
12:32:40 <TrueBrain> annoying, after login you get the cached main page, which doesn't show "edit" yet :P
12:42:43 <frosch123> sounds like taxes. if you want to edit this page, you have to edit another one first
12:43:38 <TrueBrain> also odd, in aiohttp, the middleware sees response code 200, but a 304 is going out :P
12:43:46 <TrueBrain> the last-modified detection is done after the middleware :D
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13:54:42 <TrueBrain> I don't get it ... I tell browsers to cache files for 5 minutes, but it keeps revalidating ...
13:55:26 <TrueBrain> ah, firefox has issues with no-cache="Set-Cookie"
13:55:29 <TrueBrain> fine .. I don't need it anyway
14:25:59 <TrueBrain> okay, think I figured it out ...
14:26:05 <TrueBrain> the /uploads and /static are cached for 5 minutes
14:26:16 <TrueBrain> and other pages return when they were last rendered (read: modified)
14:26:27 <TrueBrain> meaning 304s are returned if the browser has the same page already in cache
14:27:18 <TrueBrain> that should improve performance a bit .. I hope
14:28:36 <TrueBrain> hmm, only if a new translation of a page is added, it won't show up for browsers that have the file in cache, I guess
14:35:01 <TrueBrain> there we go .. that was easy to solve :D
14:37:32 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Hey, at least you didn't do it to paying customers like we did a few years ago
14:38:02 <TrueBrain> invalidate caching wrong?
14:38:31 <TrueBrain> it is hard to get right
14:38:36 <TrueBrain> and the reason I in general try to avoid it
14:38:40 <FLHerne> There was a job that ran every n minutes and batch-sent all pending emails, then flagged them as 'sent' in the database
14:39:10 <FLHerne> Needless to say, the last bit wasn't working quite right :-/
14:40:09 <TrueBrain> my favorite is still that I executed a command that does some heavy I/O operations .. we did that all the time .. also on production servers, as the job was scheduled with ionice and everything .. well .. it brought the production server to a halt :P
14:40:27 <TrueBrain> as in .. SSH was not responding correctly :P
14:40:39 <TrueBrain> ionice is not always as nice as you might think :D
14:41:13 <TrueBrain> on most production-servers this data was on their own disk .. except one ... always one ... :P
14:42:06 <TrueBrain> why are people complaining that the "unlimited" free Google Photos storage is now becoming a 15GB free storage?
14:42:10 <TrueBrain> like ... it is still A LOT of storage
14:42:21 <TrueBrain> if you take that many photos ... fucking pay for it
14:42:49 <FLHerne> Yeah, that's what I thought
14:43:25 <FLHerne> I can understand the anger at photobucket/flickr/whatever where they deleted or hid *existing* photos
14:43:40 <FLHerne> That breaks a ton of old forum posts
14:44:05 <TrueBrain> the 15GB only starts to count from next year somewhere .. which is very generous tbfh
14:44:09 <TrueBrain> it is not like they back-count
14:44:11 <FLHerne> But Google are explicitly only limiting new uploads, to a pretty high cap, so what's the problem?
14:44:23 <TrueBrain> "but I upload more than 15GB a month", I guess
14:44:55 <FLHerne> Then buy your own damn NFS box :p
14:45:46 <TrueBrain> seems people are just complaining for the fact of complaining
14:45:53 <frosch123> hmm, turns out i sometimes start truewiki with data in /data, and sometimes in /code/data. both worked?
14:46:55 <TrueBrain> depends on your parameter :P
14:47:05 <TrueBrain> by default it does ./data, workdir is /code in the Docker
14:47:25 <TrueBrain> but the default parameters of the Dockerfile are to use /data
14:47:44 <TrueBrain> so it depends if you are overwriting the default parameters :D
14:48:38 <TrueBrain> but if you use the "github" storage driver, it all doesn't matter .. as it makes sure it is "master" on startup
14:48:43 <frosch123> ok, i did not set --storage-folder when checking
14:48:45 <TrueBrain> only the "local" and "git" storage driver don't :P
14:49:53 <TrueBrain> I abused that fact about the github driver a lot, as .. what-ever I comitted, it was gone next startup :)
14:50:04 <TrueBrain> also something to be careful with, of course :D
14:51:00 <TrueBrain> that is fine for development, indeed :)
14:51:07 <TrueBrain> doesn't make commits on save, etc
14:51:23 <TrueBrain> doesn't even keep history :P
14:54:46 <TrueBrain> right, time to stress-test it a bit I guess .. see how many request/s it can do
14:56:20 <TrueBrain> Requests per second: 15.71 [#/sec] (mean)
14:56:20 <TrueBrain> Time per request: 6364.901 [ms] (mean)
14:56:23 <TrueBrain> I have had better :P
14:58:08 <TrueBrain> " orudge authored and None committed 31 seconds ago" <- "and None" .. lol .. that .. feels like a bug :D
15:02:59 <TrueBrain> yeah, 15 requests/sec it can handle without becoming laggy .. after that, it starts to slow down by a lot :P
15:03:26 <TrueBrain> deploying fix for the None :)
15:07:24 <TrueBrain> okay, mediawiki is about equal in speed
15:14:25 <TrueBrain> and mediawiki caches the page ... I do not :P Lol
15:14:36 <TrueBrain> sometimes you realise the stupidity of the world
15:15:48 <TrueBrain> but okay, one could reduce from this, that if mediawiki is surviving, so should the new site
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15:50:23 <TrueBrain> frosch123: maybe orudge does
15:50:33 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I have a crazy idea to improve speed with little effort ... goes to try
15:53:08 <frosch123> going from where it is linked, it means nothing :)
15:54:04 <frosch123> but phpbb accumulated a lot of different urls over the years, so i need plenty of regexes :)
15:58:06 <TrueBrain> okay .. crazy idea .. what if I cache the rendered HTML on disk
15:58:17 <TrueBrain> because of the cache stuff I did, I already invalidate that at the right moment
15:59:37 <andythenorth> that is a known technique
16:01:16 <TrueBrain> how much disk space would that take, worst case ... lets find out
16:03:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TinCanTech commented on issue #8339: [Game-play] Stopped vehicles started after reloading network game https://git.io/JkTYo
16:15:51 <TrueBrain> frosch123: you forgot 1 * page, I think :)
16:15:52 <TrueBrain> [[en/Archive/Community/Users/Red*Star]]
16:16:08 <TrueBrain> that page cannot be opened :P
16:20:48 <TrueBrain> everything rendered is < 150MB on disk
16:20:53 <frosch123> so a testcase for the rename script :)
16:30:06 <TrueBrain> good idea / bad idea? I dunno ..
16:30:09 <TrueBrain> guess we will find out
16:30:13 <TrueBrain> well, later tonight; first some dinner
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17:00:05 <ask6155> can someone tell me how newGRFs work?
17:00:23 <frosch123> as user? as developer?
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17:05:43 <orudge> frosch123: I suspect category, as in forum category
17:06:24 <ask6155> I have some doubts... if I get the PoTA GRF... it is a landscape... what does it do?
17:10:17 <ask6155> also there are town name grfs... how do they work? I installed one and it doesn't show up in the settings list
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17:11:16 <ask6155> wait no no I does show. It's just hard to see
17:11:30 <frosch123> yeah, they are special, you need to add them both to newgrf settings, and then select them in game setting
17:11:31 <FLHerne> ask6155: It should show up, assuming you've enabled it and clicked 'apply'
17:13:12 <FLHerne> The only big newgrf capability since then is roadtypes, I think
17:13:32 <ask6155> one of the few 19 year old documentations I'm reading
17:13:51 <FLHerne> Hey, that one's only seven years old :p
17:14:26 <FLHerne> Anyway, the answer is download stuff that looks interesting, see whether you like the effects :p
17:17:27 <FLHerne> (not all grfs are available through the online content downloader, for historical and other reasons)
17:18:15 <FLHerne> Another suggestion: if you look at the screenshots subforum, there are often lists of what people are using, and then you can see what it looks like
17:19:30 <ask6155> can you give me a link to that please?
17:27:10 <FLHerne> I should find time to do screenshots again, it was fun
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17:27:33 <ask6155> openMSX is supposed to play music right?
17:27:43 <ask6155> I don't hear anything
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17:29:50 <FLHerne> Have you selected it under 'base music set' in Game Options?
17:30:08 <FLHerne> There's also a volume control in the toolbar
17:33:48 <andythenorth> FLHerne I can't persuade you to a Steeltown screenshot series? :P
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18:01:09 <ask6155> When I goto it and press play it just shows the names of the songs
18:01:59 <longtomjr> on what operating system are you?
18:09:33 <LordAro> that's a classic "doesn't have fluidsynth/timidity installed
18:09:52 <longtomjr> yep, that is what I though as well
18:46:32 * andythenorth ships FIRS 4 Alpha 4
18:46:37 <andythenorth> FIRS is such a big beast
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19:37:21 <frosch123> TrueBrain: did you want to make the skynet victim a translator? or were they scared off?
19:38:25 <frosch123> Wolf01: skynet escaped from tb's cellar
19:39:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: well, i guess they wouldn't notice their invitation mail anyway :)
19:43:53 <Wolf01> Hmmmm, the new features for F 1.1 are really interesting
20:34:58 <andythenorth> so for Horse, a parameter to choose how wagons randomise colours
20:35:20 <andythenorth> and one of the parameter options is 'choose random scheme per train'
20:37:14 <Wolf01> Preview on train whack?
20:43:02 <andythenorth> unsupported on train whack :P
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21:58:05 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I wanted to wait for him to make a new ticket, this time unaltered
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21:58:17 <TrueBrain> honestly, if you cannot follow these simple instructions ... not sure how that would end with translating :P :P :P
21:58:53 <frosch123> we have >20% failed invites now :)
22:00:02 <TrueBrain> hmm .. how does a programmable LED strip work ...
22:00:07 <TrueBrain> I need to prepare for xmas :P
22:03:28 <TrueBrain> seems WLED application takes care of that
22:05:11 <TrueBrain> WS2812B leds, I guess ...
22:13:39 <TrueBrain> damn, those things need huge power supplies :P Haha :D
22:14:58 <frosch123> what? did you get more leds than wiki commits?
22:18:04 <frosch123> a normal led has like 2mW, doesn't it?
22:19:19 <TrueBrain> most WS2812B seem to be 0.7W per LED
22:19:27 <TrueBrain> there are like 60 in a meter, if you want something nice
22:20:32 <TrueBrain> well, it is not 1 LED most likely, I would guess, given they are RGBW
22:20:44 <TrueBrain> and there is an IC in there as you can control them all individually
22:20:44 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: With 40W still less than your typical incandescent light.
22:21:14 <TrueBrain> "less", what are you measuring?
22:22:09 <TrueBrain> well, yes, but I don't really have a 5V 40W, I think
22:22:22 <frosch123> i thought you wanted some pretty lights, now you light a whole room :)
22:23:07 <TrueBrain> well, yes, xmas is coming :D
22:23:32 <TrueBrain> but okay, it also requires a powersupply .. the only thing I have that can handle that is my Apple chargers :P
22:23:40 <frosch123> i'll watch out for a bright colourful star on the horizon
22:23:53 <TrueBrain> Requests per second: 154.31 [#/sec] (mean)
22:23:53 <TrueBrain> Time per request: 648.028 [ms] (mean)
22:23:59 <TrueBrain> pages are now cached on disk after first load
22:24:12 <TrueBrain> it is 10 times as fast now :D
22:24:15 <TrueBrain> we should be fine :P
22:24:40 <frosch123> that's 100 requests in parallel?
22:26:05 <TrueBrain> 15ms to serve a page :D
22:26:42 <frosch123> at least some ponies
22:26:47 <TrueBrain> cache invalidation should work, at least, I think I found all the places to do so
22:26:53 <frosch123> we got denied the other pony
22:26:57 <TrueBrain> and this is still a single instance .. I can always scale up :P
22:27:06 <TrueBrain> who denied ponies?! :(
22:28:07 <TrueBrain> also with NO context what-so-ever
22:29:10 <TrueBrain> meh ... means I have to take care of the (insanely high) bill on AWS in the next 6 weeks .. that will be fine :)
22:29:19 <TrueBrain> too bad; I was hoping they would grant us another year
22:29:23 <andythenorth> do we need a bailout?
22:29:34 <TrueBrain> but it is really really unclear on what they judge applications
22:30:09 <TrueBrain> it might be a one-year thing .. I don't know :P
22:31:28 <frosch123> you mean just bait? :p
22:32:49 <TrueBrain> hmm, no, there is no such rule, it seems
22:33:07 <TrueBrain> Assuming that they meet the basic eligibility requirements above, we will be examining applications on the basis of their relevance to AWS and its customers. The Amazon Leadership Principles will be used as the guiding light to select the projects.
22:33:26 <TrueBrain> wouldn't know why one year it is, the other year it isn't eligible .. shrug
22:33:44 <frosch123> maybe we got a fanboy last year :)
22:33:48 <TrueBrain> but 6000 euro a year is a bit much for us, so I guess we have to rent 2 OVH VPSes to handle most of the bandwidth :)
22:34:00 <TrueBrain> (read: zBase and abase)
22:34:05 <frosch123> and this year someone who was denied a daylength pony
22:34:30 <TrueBrain> I don't know if any of you feels up to it to click that "email" link and ask them if there is anything we can do
22:35:20 <TrueBrain> we could also stop hosting abase and zBase btw :P
22:35:24 <TrueBrain> also a valid solution to the problem
22:35:40 <andythenorth> charge download fee
22:36:37 <frosch123> so, we keep the containers, but need a custom cdn for binaries/bananas?
22:37:05 <TrueBrain> bandwidth is 90% of our bill :)
22:37:51 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
22:38:05 <TrueBrain> I am really curious why it is denied ... maybe it is something silly like wrong account ID .. shrug :P
22:38:06 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd
22:38:11 <TrueBrain> I might feel like emailing tomorrow
22:38:46 <frosch123> how many TB/month did we have?
22:39:02 <TrueBrain> let me get the data for you ..
22:39:28 <frosch123> just a rough guess is enough?
22:39:58 <TrueBrain> nah, I want to know for sure what it all is
22:40:10 <TrueBrain> so, daily we pay 18 dollar atm, of which 14 is in CloudFront
22:40:54 <TrueBrain> the remaining 4 dollar can be cut down a bit if we don't run on on-demand EC2 (I was just too lazy to change that, honestly)
22:42:45 <TrueBrain> I am now looking for the CloudFront bill overview, but I cannot find it :D
22:42:51 <TrueBrain> I always get lost :P
22:43:43 <TrueBrain> so if we look at last month
22:43:49 <TrueBrain> 376 dollar was for CloudFront
22:43:55 <TrueBrain> of which 247 dollar was in Europe
22:44:11 <TrueBrain> this is because we did 3TB inside Europe
22:44:54 <TrueBrain> 300GB in Asia Pacific, 80GB in Australia, 150GB in South America, 50GB in India, and 500GB in US
22:45:03 <TrueBrain> a total of 4TB, give or take
22:46:11 <TrueBrain> 1TB was zBase, 655GB was abase
22:46:30 <TrueBrain> next, 26GB was OpenGFX, 25GB was OpenSFX
22:46:32 <TrueBrain> rest is pocket-change
22:47:03 <TrueBrain> zBase was downloaded 3800 times, aBase 2600 times
22:47:10 <TrueBrain> just to show the insanity of those two downloads :)
22:47:47 <frosch123> both azure and google want about $80/TB/month. OVH is a lot cheaper with $8/TB/month if we take 10TB/month
22:48:04 <TrueBrain> OVH VPS, 5 euro per month, 3TB included
22:48:08 <TrueBrain> I can do you cheaper ;)
22:48:18 <TrueBrain> it just isn't a CDN
22:48:46 <TrueBrain> 180GB per month for opensfx via the installer
22:48:55 <TrueBrain> 60GB per month for OpenGFX via the installer
22:49:03 <TrueBrain> I did not know OpenSFX was bigger :P
22:49:13 <TrueBrain> 20k hits per month on both
22:49:31 <TrueBrain> 1.10.3 windows release was downloaded 25k times, worth 100GB
22:50:08 <frosch123> yeah, sfx is 12mb, gfx 5mb
22:51:17 <TrueBrain> we deal with ~80k hits per day on CDN/BaNaNaS/.. (a binary download)
22:51:31 <TrueBrain> roughly 150GB per day
22:51:45 <TrueBrain> but I have a hard time adding up to the 4TB a month, I have to admit
22:52:00 <TrueBrain> getting to the 2TB is easy, as that are those 2 downloads :P
22:52:13 <TrueBrain> anyway, we can do several things
22:52:25 <TrueBrain> if we move abase and zBase alone to a OVH VPS, we reduce the AWS bill with 150 dollar per month
22:52:54 * andythenorth wonders if we can kill them
22:53:10 <andythenorth> my opinion is invalid, because I dislike the 32bpp EZ stuff
22:53:15 <TrueBrain> well, that is something I just want to talk about
22:53:19 <TrueBrain> because they are last updated in 2016
22:53:23 <TrueBrain> (and zBase in 2015)
22:53:26 <TrueBrain> how relevant is the content?
22:53:30 <LordAro> could their distributions be "improved* ? better compressed, etc
22:53:53 <TrueBrain> well, switching a different compression, like zstd helps a bit
22:53:56 <TrueBrain> but that is like 10%
22:54:10 <TrueBrain> but okay, putting that aside for a bit
22:54:19 <andythenorth> would players pay 1 euro for each download
22:54:23 <TrueBrain> it does leave us with a ~300 dollar bill per month in total, without zBase and abase
22:54:23 <LordAro> i suppose the images couldn't be improved any further? not sure how they're encoded in grfs
22:54:38 <TrueBrain> we have enough donations to cover us for a year or 2
22:54:38 <frosch123> TrueBrain: they are popular among new players. but it's unfortunate that they are two sets, and not abase a new version to zbase
22:55:07 <TrueBrain> we can reduce the bill further, honestly
22:55:20 <LordAro> i think zeph is still activeish, dunno about the other, could discuss it with them?
22:55:23 <TrueBrain> if we move BaNaNaS completely away to VPS distribution, basically
22:55:29 <LordAro> (or just do it, depending on licences)
22:55:43 <frosch123> LordAro: the abase guy lost all their sources due to disk crash or something, and abandoned their project
22:55:49 <LordAro> (re frosch suggestion)
22:55:50 <frosch123> abase differs from zbase in like 50 gui sprites
22:55:58 <TrueBrain> but it depends a bit on what we find acceptable here
22:56:03 <andythenorth> abase thread says it's dead
22:56:36 <TrueBrain> so in a bigger picture ... fixing abase/zBase does a lot
22:56:41 <TrueBrain> but do we find the remainder acceptable
22:57:09 <andythenorth> TrueBrain it's all those Horse uploads eating the bill :(
22:57:15 <TrueBrain> (as, lets be honest, 300 dollar a month is a lot for an Open Source project :P)
22:57:25 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: uploads are free, so no
22:58:07 <LordAro> how much would be needed to "break even" with donations?
22:58:28 <TrueBrain> mind you we haven't done fundraisers in years
22:58:38 <TrueBrain> let me see if I have that information .. (that is orudge's department btw)
22:59:21 <LordAro> i don't need exact numbers :p
22:59:30 <frosch123> i guess we could claim that we can only support hosting one 32bpp baseset, kill abase, and tell people to contribute to zbase
22:59:34 <TrueBrain> but I do need to know estimates :P
22:59:38 <TrueBrain> it is not like I remember that shit LordAro :D
23:00:05 <TrueBrain> owh, I only have profit/loss, so that is already after the bills we had in those years
23:00:25 <TrueBrain> if I can guestimate this, it is around 1000 dollar in per year; bit less by the looks of it
23:00:37 <LordAro> you're the one who said "cover us for a year or 2"
23:00:51 <TrueBrain> I do know how much we have in reserve
23:00:55 <TrueBrain> that 2 years is with 0 donations :D
23:01:16 <TrueBrain> we ae VERY bad in using donations (which is a good thing, honestly)
23:02:30 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC
23:02:34 <TrueBrain> tt-forums does a 500 pound fundraiser each year
23:02:40 <TrueBrain> we would have a bill around 5 times that amount
23:03:03 <TrueBrain> the problem for me, 300 dollar AWS bill per month is like ... a joke to me :P Any company you work for laughs at those numbers
23:03:09 <TrueBrain> so I have a hard time putting any of this in perspective :P
23:03:27 <frosch123> looks like we are back at vps
23:03:34 <LordAro> this was always the downsize of putting everything on AWS :p
23:03:49 <TrueBrain> well, I knew when I loaded BaNaNaS onto it, it would be "a problem"
23:03:54 <TrueBrain> I mentioned that many many times :D
23:04:03 <TrueBrain> I was always prepared to move those to a VPS network :)
23:04:22 <TrueBrain> this year we got lucky that AWS sponsored us
23:04:25 <TrueBrain> that is all, really :P
23:04:58 <LordAro> how much would you guess would be saved by removing one of abase/zbase?
23:05:05 <LordAro> (i.e. how many download both?)
23:05:35 <frosch123> LordAro: 655gb of 4tb for abase
23:05:51 <TrueBrain> 4TB is arond 376 dollar, 1TB was zBase, 655GB was abase
23:06:18 <TrueBrain> thatt .. needs no other time unit
23:06:31 <TrueBrain> @calc 655 / 4000 * 376
23:06:52 <TrueBrain> so abase costs us 62 dollar per month currently :)
23:07:02 <frosch123> so, removing abase safes us 16% of the cose, but i guess that does not solve the problem either
23:07:02 <TrueBrain> @calc 1000 / 4000 * 376
23:07:11 <TrueBrain> and zBase 94 :) I like putting numbers in perspective :D
23:07:34 <TrueBrain> @calc (4 + 18) * 30
23:08:00 <TrueBrain> right, let me just get my calculator, instead of spamming here
23:08:01 <frosch123> we cannot stop hosting both 32bpp sets :) and moving only them to a vps makes no sense either, does it?
23:08:28 <LordAro> how about moving all basesets?
23:08:31 <TrueBrain> well, moving only them means the rest of BaNaNaS is still very fast no matter where you live
23:08:36 <TrueBrain> those two will be EU based, and a bit slower
23:09:44 <TrueBrain> I am basically min/maxing user experience
23:09:50 <TrueBrain> ah, finally found the total usage of BaNaNaS
23:09:54 <TrueBrain> out of the 4TB, 3.5TB is BaNaNaS :)
23:10:33 <TrueBrain> 300GB are the binaries, of which 1 day was 60GB .. some days are weird
23:10:51 <frosch123> speed is only important for big downloads. so, i see no reason to keep anything on aws. we should pick whatever is easier to implement
23:10:53 <TrueBrain> also 10 times more downloads, so I guess we got posted on some forum :P
23:11:14 <Koala> How's it hanging in paradise?
23:11:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is fair
23:11:34 <TrueBrain> given 80% of the traffic is EU based, I suggest we keep everything in the EU
23:11:42 <TrueBrain> round robin the DNS
23:12:04 <TrueBrain> doing that would reduce the bill with ...
23:12:09 <TrueBrain> @calc 3500 / 4000 * 376
23:12:25 <TrueBrain> meaning that with no incoming donations, we can survive for 4+ years
23:12:26 <LordAro> yeah, that's probably the way to go
23:12:40 <TrueBrain> bandwidth is just silly expensive on cloud providers :)
23:12:47 <LordAro> ~50/month AWS bill sounds plenty survivable
23:12:49 <Koala> What're you guys talking about:D
23:13:11 <TrueBrain> LordAro: no no, this was the bandwidth bill
23:13:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: did you reverse those numbers? i think you mean 12+ years
23:13:51 <TrueBrain> no, I got that about right frosch123
23:14:23 <TrueBrain> but I can also reduce the 4 dollar per day for the other stuff a bit
23:14:33 <TrueBrain> I believe by 50% if I use a different "savings" plan
23:15:34 <TrueBrain> I told you from the start: 4 dollar per day for the rest of the infra
23:15:44 <TrueBrain> vs 18 dollar per day for the bandwidth bill
23:15:53 <TrueBrain> the 376 is ONLY bandwidth :)
23:16:13 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 121.666666667
23:16:13 <TrueBrain> well, the 18 dollar was the highest day in a month .. clearly that wasn't fair :P
23:16:51 <frosch123> so, what is easiest to implement?
23:17:10 <TrueBrain> a few, depending on what we like
23:17:29 <frosch123> manually move basesets to vps? or change bananas to upload new stuff to vps?
23:18:06 <LordAro> it's almost "cleaner" to exclusively put all basesets on the VPS
23:18:09 <Koala> So do either of you still play OpenTTD?
23:18:46 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I will change BaNaNaS to upload it to where-ever-is-new
23:18:55 <TrueBrain> most likely also copy it to AWS, just for save keeping
23:19:21 <TrueBrain> LordAro: NewGRFs also cost a bit .. lot of small hits, basically
23:19:42 <LordAro> move everything then?
23:19:49 <LordAro> yeah, seems reasonable
23:19:50 <TrueBrain> I would prefer if we can avoid hetzner, but that is just because they are retards when it comes to criminal activities .. they seem to welcome that
23:19:53 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i thought backblaze was only for personal download :o
23:20:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: nope, they have business solutions too
23:20:05 <LordAro> TrueBrain: this does not surprise me that much
23:20:12 <LordAro> all i know of them is "omg super cheap"
23:20:12 <TrueBrain> both DigitalOcean as BackBlaze are 1 cent per GB, instead of the current 9
23:20:24 <TrueBrain> they are incredibly cheap, yes
23:20:39 <TrueBrain> you can see we can do the 376 bill away for 3 :P
23:20:46 <Koala> TrueBrain: So do both of you run OpenTTD servers?
23:21:02 <LordAro> Koala: TrueBrain is OTTD sysadmin supreme
23:21:12 <TrueBrain> and I do not run a single OpenTTD game server :P
23:21:32 <LordAro> ah yes, i see the potential for confusion :p
23:21:41 <Koala> LordArg: What does this mean xD
23:21:47 <LordAro> OTTD game servers are not nearly this expensive :p
23:21:54 <LordAro> well, not in terms of bandwidth
23:21:57 <frosch123> Koala: everything *.openttd.org, all bananas, all website, all everything
23:22:12 <milek7> TrueBrain: >WS2812B leds, I guess ...
23:22:20 <Koala> Oh damn, that's mighty impressive
23:22:31 <TrueBrain> so what we used to do, is have 2 OVH VPSes, those of 5 euro a month, and host BaNaNaS mostly on those
23:22:48 <TrueBrain> milek7: yes, exactly :) That are WS2812Bs?
23:23:04 <frosch123> TrueBrain: b2 sounds like the least work?
23:23:21 <frosch123> vps sounds like maintainance again
23:23:27 <TrueBrain> least work is Digital Ocean, ironically :)
23:23:40 <LordAro> backblaze have always seemed like a friendly place
23:23:45 <TrueBrain> I think they fixed that, lets see ..
23:23:56 <TrueBrain> my backups go there
23:24:02 <LordAro> could ask for sponsorship? :D
23:24:08 <Koala> frosch123: So I'm guessing I just fall into this as someone who is getting in your guys' way:D
23:24:16 <FLHerne> Koala: TrueBrain and frosch123 spent most of the last month (?) writing a brand-new wiki system because MediaWiki isn't good enough ;-)
23:24:19 <frosch123> Koala: learn and grow
23:24:25 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I don't mind if someone does, but I am a bit done by re-evaluating expensive every N months :P
23:24:32 <FLHerne> Koala: They shut up sometimes, and then we can argue about newgrfs instead
23:24:44 <FLHerne> It's a bit late, andythenorth might have gone to bed?
23:25:05 <TrueBrain> milek7: you like it?
23:26:03 <Koala> FLHerne: That's incredible, so they're talking about servers to run it on?
23:26:43 <frosch123> TrueBrain: oh, both b2 and DO claim to be s3 compatible :)
23:27:10 <frosch123> does that mean we only have to switch urls and keys?
23:27:15 <TrueBrain> cannot find back if DO is now IPv6
23:27:17 <LordAro> how about other OSS games? there must be something else that has an equivalent sort of hosting
23:27:25 <TrueBrain> I remember something about it, and me laughing, but .. can't find it
23:27:34 <FLHerne> Koala: Mostly the ingame content-download today, if my quick skimreading is correct
23:27:41 <TrueBrain> frosch123: in theory, yes. But .. it is not always that black/white :P
23:27:59 <TrueBrain> LordAro: not sure most OSS use 4TB a month :P
23:28:10 <LordAro> but we can't be unique :p
23:28:23 <TrueBrain> our content service kinda is, honestly
23:28:35 <andythenorth> I am here FLHerne
23:28:57 <Koala> FLHerne: Okay I see, so then that's what they mostly talk about is coding and such?
23:29:01 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is useful to mention that BB is not a CDN
23:29:15 <frosch123> what does that mean?
23:29:23 <TrueBrain> that the files are hosted in a single location
23:29:38 <FLHerne> andythenorth: We need a grf discussion to convince Koala this isn't only the arcane web service channel ;-)
23:29:39 <TrueBrain> they suggest using CloudFlare to use as edge-network / CDN
23:29:45 <TrueBrain> but ... they denied us for binaries-only :P
23:29:49 <TrueBrain> I tried that already :D
23:30:05 <andythenorth> FLHerne make screenshots with FIRS 4 Alpha 4 Steeltown :P
23:30:13 <andythenorth> it takes 60 years to connect all chains
23:30:20 <frosch123> TrueBrain: don't they hit their connection limit pretty fast that way?
23:30:36 <TrueBrain> not really; pretty sure they can handle a lot of requests per second :P
23:30:43 <TrueBrain> it is more that the latency is higher
23:30:52 <TrueBrain> and network interruptions are more noticeable
23:30:59 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That seems excessive
23:31:22 <andythenorth> keeps the game going
23:31:28 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I'll give Steeltown a go when I get time
23:31:36 <andythenorth> it's not for everyone :P
23:31:44 <frosch123> TrueBrain: so, go for b2 first. if it fails, try DO second?
23:31:56 <FLHerne> From my previous quick game, it's not thematically ideal for a trainset
23:32:17 <TrueBrain> would be 40 dollar per month, give or take
23:32:20 <TrueBrain> VPS would be 10 dollar per month
23:32:23 <frosch123> TrueBrain: everything sounds like, you have to try it, to find out what works and doesn't :)
23:32:27 <FLHerne> A bit too sector-specific
23:32:48 * FLHerne thinking maybe a smallish 64^2 map and try to turn it into Scunthorpe by the end :p
23:32:53 <TrueBrain> we tried DO's CDN back in 2019, and it was not great :P
23:33:00 <andythenorth> it's thematically idea for scunthorpe yes
23:33:24 <TrueBrain> okay, I will ask our mister finance to create a B2 account, and I will toy around with it a bit
23:33:39 <TrueBrain> I think we will upload it to both AWS S3 as B2, that makes other migrations easier
23:33:40 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Yeah, but I can't have A4s in Scunthorpe :p
23:34:06 <TrueBrain> hmm .. does B2 offer custom domain ...
23:34:09 <FLHerne> They have some pretty big art assets
23:34:11 <LordAro> (windows exe is 700MB)
23:34:40 <TrueBrain> LordAro: and where do they host?
23:34:52 <LordAro> wait, i absolutely have not maths'd correctly, that's for the incomplete month of november :p
23:34:57 <LordAro> TrueBrain: haven't worked that out yet
23:35:17 <TrueBrain> frosch123: meh, seems custom domains have to go via CloudFlare ..
23:35:28 <TrueBrain> which didn't like it when I suggested 4TB per month via their network :P
23:35:32 <frosch123> those graphs say 70% go via torrent
23:35:48 <LordAro> yeah, i was only counting the http downloads
23:36:12 <TrueBrain> so B2 is not possible without having a weird-ass domain :P
23:36:15 <frosch123> TrueBrain: too much? too little? i never understand cloudflare
23:36:34 <TrueBrain> frosch123: they do not appreciate it if you only distribute binaries via them
23:36:43 <TrueBrain> if you do your whole site, it is a bit more okay, but still not really
23:36:52 <TrueBrain> so I asked them: how about 4TB of binaries
23:37:12 <LordAro> releases.wildfire.com points to a hetzner IP :D
23:37:21 <TrueBrain> I am not really surprised :P
23:37:28 <TrueBrain> and ... well .. dirt
23:39:27 <frosch123> LordAro: they did not switch in 6 years?
23:39:46 <TrueBrain> happy to see their monthly price would be about equal to ours, in total
23:39:58 <LordAro> frosch123: apparently not
23:40:08 <LordAro> though apparently they switched server last year :p
23:40:36 <andythenorth> FLHerne streamlined torpedo cars seems fine
23:41:08 <TrueBrain> frosch123: seems VPSes is by far the easiest way to go
23:41:15 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Do you have those in Horse?
23:41:27 <TrueBrain> but it does require a bit more upkeep
23:41:40 <andythenorth> there's a torpedo car
23:41:46 <andythenorth> and a streamlined engine
23:42:16 <TrueBrain> well, what I can do tomorrow: 1) launch TrueWiki, 2) email AWS asking if there is anything we can do to do get those credits, 3) email CloudFlare what it would cost for them to take us on, 4) figure out what the easiest way would be to use VPSes :P
23:42:22 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what? vps is the easier option? okay, then we have a clear winner :)
23:42:40 <TrueBrain> well, yeah, as we know the DO Spaces can be a bit crappy
23:42:47 <TrueBrain> we have been there for a year, and it had a lot of errors etc
23:42:58 <TrueBrain> B2 requires CloudFlare for custom domain
23:43:07 <LordAro> not to mention the ipv6 issues :p
23:43:15 <TrueBrain> and those VPSes ... it is just getting a Debian install
23:43:19 <TrueBrain> running "apt get install nginx"
23:43:25 <TrueBrain> shitting a nginx.conf in there
23:43:33 <TrueBrain> generate an ssh-key
23:43:51 <TrueBrain> well, the ssh-key not on the VPSes, but on AWS, with the public key on those VPSes
23:43:59 <TrueBrain> changing BaNaNaS is more effort, but ... what can you do
23:44:06 <TrueBrain> I always assumed I had to do it some day :P
23:44:23 <TrueBrain> no, I am going to skip 2) in that list above
23:44:32 <frosch123> just not so early :)
23:44:48 <TrueBrain> well, I always expected it to happen next month, as I knew the credits would end :P
23:45:03 <LordAro> TrueBrain: worth doing something with ansible, or not even worth that?
23:45:11 <TrueBrain> was just hoping we could have been done with wiki last month :P Stupid mediawiki :)
23:45:21 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I have considered starting to use Terraform
23:45:29 <frosch123> and yes, i don't think contacting a big company outside the standard workflow helps with anything
23:45:29 <TrueBrain> as I am also a bit done with configuring GitHub etc
23:45:36 <TrueBrain> but ... I would have to learn that
23:45:42 <TrueBrain> so if you know ansible, and can automate that
23:45:44 <TrueBrain> that would be a big win
23:46:18 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am also done every year asking for money ...
23:46:19 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Nice pic
23:46:36 <TrueBrain> LordAro: well, if you can ansible a nginx deployment on OVH VPSes .. that would for sure help :)
23:46:45 <TrueBrain> means we can redeploy that every N months
23:47:04 <TrueBrain> owh, and letsencrypt
23:47:11 <LordAro> yeah, that's all relatively easy
23:47:31 <TrueBrain> the main hurdle will be that they need to both listen on the same hostname
23:47:38 <TrueBrain> so .. bananas.cdn.openttd.org, I guess :P
23:47:44 <TrueBrain> they both need a valid certificate for that
23:47:46 <LordAro> can do nice things like good ssh config, unattended-upgrades, etc etc
23:48:12 <TrueBrain> so the wishlist: nginx + letsencrypt, and ssh or rsync for file transfer
23:48:18 <TrueBrain> that is all they need to do :P
23:48:36 <TrueBrain> the last 5 years we had those VPSes ... I kinda rarely updated them, or logged in to them ..as such setups "just work"
23:49:27 <TrueBrain> just know, my experience with ansible is from 5+ years ago
23:49:31 <TrueBrain> so ... I am useless to you :)
23:49:41 <LordAro> it's not changed *much*
23:49:51 <LordAro> they keep renaming everything, but the majority is the same
23:49:53 <TrueBrain> my memory doesn't allow me to keep such information :P
23:50:03 <TrueBrain> and I get the principles .. just .. no clue how to write any role etc
23:51:11 <TrueBrain> hmm, OVH also has S3-like storage, I see now
23:51:19 <TrueBrain> also for roughly 1 eurocent per GB
23:52:34 <TrueBrain> I don't know scaleway
23:53:11 <milek7> vps work fine, didn't use that s3-like storage
23:53:17 <TrueBrain> both OVH and scaleway are without CDN
23:53:28 <TrueBrain> (which is not a real surprise)
23:53:33 <TrueBrain> OVH seems to support custom domains
23:53:38 <TrueBrain> might be another option, honestly
23:55:13 <TrueBrain> The feature works correctly with HTTP. However, you will receive a certificate error if you use HTTPS, since we do not have your private certificate. You will still be able to use HTTPS, but you will receive certificate alerts on most recent browsers.
23:55:15 <TrueBrain> well, that is useless
23:55:33 <TrueBrain> owh, LordAro , the nginx needs to be configured for both HTTP and HTTPS
23:55:47 <TrueBrain> as .. OpenTTD client ...... cannot do ... HTTPS :P
23:56:22 <LordAro> not a problem, especially with ansible :p
23:56:41 <milek7> ..so does it needs https at all?
23:56:59 <TrueBrain> yes, for if/when we are going to do web-downloads again
23:57:03 <LordAro> OTTD will be able to do https *at some point*
23:57:40 <TrueBrain> lets see .. how did I deploy this on AWS ..
23:57:55 <TrueBrain> owh, yes, we need something special :D
continue to next day ⏵
