IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-09-01
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01:38:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
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03:09:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
03:31:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
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04:31:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
04:45:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
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10:22:13 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: why did you silence DorpsGek_III in this channel? :(
10:22:32 <andythenorth> to show my leet skills
10:22:58 <TrueBrain> for some reason it sometimes stops working .. which is odd. Owh well, PyUp should be sending a PR soon anyway, so we fix it when that happens :)
10:23:10 <TrueBrain> (it still reports in other channels; just not in this :P)
10:23:32 <andythenorth> there are other channels :O
10:24:56 * andythenorth is having weird RONG responses to issue updates
10:25:38 * andythenorth should be better
10:35:46 <LordAro> andythenorth: i recommend tea
10:37:09 <andythenorth> black coffee and antacids?
10:44:24 <andythenorth> I stopped taking antacids
10:44:36 <andythenorth> but I used to wash them down with black coffee, it seemed to help
11:24:47 <TrueBrain> I do wonder why DorpsGek_III doesn't say anything in this channel .. it is a bit weird .. he is in here .. he should be able to talk :P
11:24:54 <TrueBrain> might be related to another channel where it fails or something
11:28:18 <TrueBrain> no logs were produced of any failure of any kind :(
11:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he got scared or depressed when andy said he wanted to ignore him?
12:16:17 <TrueBrain> I agree, it is the only thing that makes sense
12:27:10 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: have we worked out whether ^ is an NML bug yet?
12:42:19 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i haven't really done any working out yet
12:46:45 <TrueBrain> and .. now it started to work again? Wtf?
12:47:46 <LordAro> TrueBrain: ...it wasn't you?
12:48:24 <TrueBrain> I did absolutely nothing to resolve the issue
12:53:51 <TrueBrain> not really, as that brings us little closer to wtf happens :P
12:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> are you questioning the will of god now? :p
12:58:51 <TrueBrain> I really hope he doesn't waste time on things like a bot in an IRC channel :P
12:58:59 <TrueBrain> what-ever floats your boat
12:59:01 <andythenorth> on the mac performance front
12:59:14 <Eddi|zuHause> did we settle for "they" already?
12:59:17 <andythenorth> the official 1.10 build seems 'fine'
12:59:26 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I think it's been 'they' for years
12:59:41 <andythenorth> apparently 'they' is some kind of woke / anti-woke controversy
12:59:54 <andythenorth> whereas some of us have been saying 'they' where gender pronoun is unknown for fucking years
13:00:02 <andythenorth> due to it being an obvious affordance of the language
13:00:10 <andythenorth> and not some kind of wank-off culture war point
13:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's just a "everything previously was bad, we need a new way" thing, and not actually trying to solve any problems?
13:00:32 * andythenorth should not read the internet
13:01:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I don't know, I despair of the internet
13:01:24 <andythenorth> but 'they' is plain English for the situation of unknown gender, or where a specific gender shouldn't be implied
13:01:27 <LordAro> i try to avoid such parts of the internet
13:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should declare the internet as a failed experiment, and roll back to 1994 again?
13:01:55 <andythenorth> can we blame AOL?
13:02:02 <LordAro> i blame social media personally
13:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you know about the "eternal september"?
13:02:46 <andythenorth> otherwise known as 'reddit'
13:03:04 <LordAro> it's much older than reddit
13:03:14 <andythenorth> reddit is just the latest incarnation
13:03:21 <andythenorth> anyway, mac performance works for me, close that issue
13:03:41 <andythenorth> I logged out of github for $reasons, and I can't be bothered to find my login
13:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the way i learned it was that back when "internet" consisted of mostly university students, every time a new semester started, a wave of new people started pouring in, and had to be taught the way things were done
13:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> ... then "public" got access to "the internet" (compuserve, aol, ...), and suddenly this inflow of new people wasn't restricted to semester start anymore, it was "eternal"
13:04:39 <LordAro> "Eternal September or the September that never ended[1] is Usenet slang for a period beginning in September 1993,[2][3] the month that Internet service provider America Online (AOL) began offering Usenet access to its many users, overwhelming the existing culture for online forums. "
13:05:13 <andythenorth> otherwise exemplified by tt-forums Suggestions sub-board
13:06:27 <andythenorth> we should use that to solve daylength
13:17:59 <Timberwolf> I referred to Reddit as an Exponential September, in that not only does it have all the typical Eternal September content (same newbie questions, low-effort posts, dumb flame wars) it amplifies it over the more interesting but less "engaging" content.
13:24:11 <Timberwolf> Small ones are not too bad but once they get beyond ~15,000 users it becomes whatever that subject's equivalent of "just discovered a great junction technique: roundabouts" is.
13:27:01 <Timberwolf> I should see if I still have my old "grid with roundabouts" save games. They're probably sitting in C:\MPS\TTDLX on an old hard drive somewhere, still hopelessly gridlocked.
13:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm staying a firm opponent of roundabouts
13:29:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i can barely watch biffa videos
13:30:39 <Timberwolf> I was playing a Factorio game with a couple friends a while back and they started building roundabouts for their train network.
13:31:48 <Timberwolf> cue inevitable, "er... why aren't there any barrels on the oil bus?"
13:31:57 <Timberwolf> (This was quite a few versions ago)
13:35:44 <andythenorth> I can't quite process
13:36:01 <andythenorth> it's so bizarrely nice
13:36:08 <andythenorth> whilst also being a cesspool
13:39:46 <Timberwolf> IMO it was a lot better when you only got karma for posting links. (And the comment karma was tracked separately and quite hidden)
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19:26:53 <Timberwolf> Someone specified trains the way I go car shopping.
19:27:24 <andythenorth> you're including never-built trains, right? o_O
19:27:31 <andythenorth> all good sets should
19:27:51 <Timberwolf> It is tempting to have something ridiculously expensive, high maintenance but powerful in the 1970s.
19:28:23 <andythenorth> I considered it, but it doesn't fit Horse progression :|
19:28:28 <andythenorth> you have Kestrel?
19:33:19 <andythenorth> 2x 2500hp charge-cooled engines, in a stretched class 50 body
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19:38:40 <andythenorth> do you evolve gender, ethnicity and dress style over time?
19:39:08 <Timberwolf> I did have that thought...
19:39:41 * Sacro watches his midland locos shuttling about
19:40:35 <Sacro> Timberwolf: excellent set
19:43:28 <Sacro> Day length 5, currently 1904, gonna be a long game
19:43:58 <andythenorth> "what is day length?"
19:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> daylength 5? is this some kind of speed run? :p
19:46:15 <Sacro> Days are 5 times longer, ie you get time with each era
19:46:30 <Sacro> Otherwise I find that I miss the different periods
19:55:41 <Sacro> It's nice having nick colors, but I wish it'd stop making you all be purple
19:59:54 <Sacro> Timberwolf: am i missing something, I can't see any non-electrified trams
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20:09:39 <supermop_Home> Timberwolf you could do a new York style and have them leaning 3-4px over the platform edge to look down the line
20:12:58 <Sacro> Please stand behind the yellow line
20:56:18 <TrueBrain> hmm, so DorpsGek_III is being the silent type again? It is a bit weird today :P
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21:05:43 <frosch123> he probably has tea with webster
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21:15:28 <TrueBrain> no, DorpsGek_III is running fine
21:15:32 <TrueBrain> just not reporting in this channel
21:15:38 <TrueBrain> it is in other channels :P
21:16:32 <glx> it doesn's speak in .notice either ;)
21:17:00 <TrueBrain> shrug, guess he just hates OpenTTD :P
21:17:02 <Timberwolf> supermop_Home: happens at one of the crowded staged :)
21:17:28 <glx> (and I checked it wasn't unvoiced)
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21:21:13 <frosch123> hmm, oh right... that endpoint deprecation that used to be months away... is next month :/
21:21:46 <TrueBrain> it is an easy fix :P I am just lazy :)
21:21:58 <TrueBrain> testing is a bit annoying, that is mostly what is holding me back :P
21:22:05 <glx> I just don't know where to look :)
21:22:52 <TrueBrain> it is really replacing one URL for the other :P
21:27:28 <glx> oh looks like black has been updated since last pyup PR for dorpsgek, it now fails
21:27:50 <TrueBrain> something to fix tomorrow or something :)
21:37:02 <frosch123> last weekend i saw some other project running a bot that runs clang-format over PRs and force pushes them back
21:37:06 <frosch123> is that evil or evil?
21:38:05 <andythenorth> not as evil as the 'apparently trivial' inclusion of poisoned XCode project files, which can then produce a poisoned binary which will pass all Apple verification
21:38:15 <andythenorth> allegedly found in the wild on GitHub projects
21:38:39 <andythenorth> also Apple notarised two instances of known malware recently
21:39:25 <andythenorth> so OpenTTD should be fine right?
21:39:32 <andythenorth> just the coin-miner and the keystroke logger?
21:39:35 <frosch123> well, both apple and google announced that they can now track people's movement with corona even without an app
21:40:06 <frosch123> so, it's time to attach all your mobile devices to your dogs and cats
21:40:19 <frosch123> so they can happily track them instead
21:41:10 <andythenorth> and then when the cat gets covid, we can test and trace it
21:41:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: btw. i read an in advertisement that your employer also offers computers with linux. maybe you should ask for a trade?
21:42:00 <andythenorth> we only offer them to people who can certify themselves competent to manage them
21:42:07 <andythenorth> obviously I can't meet that criteria
21:43:10 <frosch123> is the source animal of corona known meanwhile? maybe cats started it all along?
21:47:27 <frosch123> oh. godbold can "#include <weburl>"... i did not know that
21:47:47 <dwfreed> it has a few useful libraries installed
22:22:41 <milek7_> frosch123: but for corona tracking actually they use BLE with crypto for anonimization
22:23:21 <milek7_> sending location to mothership has been for many years, disguised as 'location services' or something
22:24:27 <andythenorth> isn't it just a feature on android?
22:24:34 <andythenorth> not even disguised?
22:24:58 * andythenorth wonders how the live road traffic report services work
23:49:46 <FLHerne> glx: Why is it not intended?
23:50:22 <FLHerne> I mean, James is right that saving the password in plaintext would be silly
23:52:08 <FLHerne> But we could save a hashed/salted version with a unique salt stored in the server's config file
23:52:49 <glx> would mean server owner can read passwords
23:53:23 <FLHerne> Can they not already read passwords?
23:53:38 <glx> (well it's already possible with a modified server)
23:54:36 <FLHerne> Then I don't really see the problem
23:54:56 <LordAro> there's no need to expose it any more than necessary
23:55:20 <FLHerne> (also, I'm sure there's a hashing scheme that would avoid the server ever holding the plaintext password)
23:56:12 <FLHerne> LordAro: This still wouldn't make it possible to see the password with an unmodified client
23:56:32 <FLHerne> And if I understand how it works currently, modifying the client to print passwords would be trivial currently
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