IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-06-19
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02:47:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #8228: Fix: Thread unsafe use of NetworkAddress::GetAddressAsString https://git.io/JfFcC
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08:29:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7955: WIP Feature: NewGRF Road Stops (Feature 14) https://git.io/JfF11
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09:49:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8228: Fix: Thread unsafe use of NetworkAddress::GetAddressAsString https://git.io/JfFyN
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10:27:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8224: Cleanup: Remove redundant implementation of TakeScreenshot https://git.io/JfF9u
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11:42:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8224: Cleanup: Remove redundant implementation of TakeScreenshot https://git.io/JfF7i
11:55:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8224: Cleanup: Remove redundant implementation of TakeScreenshot https://git.io/JfF53
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12:17:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8224: Cleanup: Remove redundant implementation of TakeScreenshot https://git.io/JfFdK
12:25:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] danchr commented on pull request #8189: Update: generate Mac bundle on install rather than packaging https://git.io/JfFdx
12:37:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] danchr updated pull request #8189: Update: generate Mac bundle on install rather than packaging https://git.io/Jf12c
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15:12:42 <andythenorth> another FIRS 4 preview release?
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15:30:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/JfFjB
15:31:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/JfFju
15:42:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/JfbeO
15:47:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/Jfbe2
15:47:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/JfbeV
15:53:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/Jfbed
15:55:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/Jfbvv
16:02:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/JfbvC
16:06:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/Jfbvg
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19:20:42 <supermop_Home> NotCapsuleTowers
19:21:05 <supermop_Home> mew patch to make OpenTTD a rich capsule tower similator
19:21:25 <supermop_Home> I am going to get lunch
19:23:59 <andythenorth> Wolf01 I quit Blitz for today
19:26:18 <Wolf01> I get bored even playing with lego
19:28:53 <andythenorth> pony proposal: vehicle 'extra info window', simple window populated by a newgrf cb or static string
19:29:02 <andythenorth> opened from buy menu or vehicle info window
19:30:11 <frosch123> probably including a sprite carousel
19:31:24 <andythenorth> I was just thinking text :P
19:32:17 <andythenorth> I want to make up silly back stories for vehicle types
19:32:32 <andythenorth> but they would crowd the buy menu extra text
19:32:50 <frosch123> is there a newgrf string control code for marquee?
19:33:23 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think html is more suitable for long texts
19:34:03 <frosch123> there is no civilopedia in ttd
19:34:43 <frosch123> so, imo put the stories into the docs
19:34:57 <frosch123> and allow putting more links in-gmae
19:35:03 <andythenorth> oh wow, I've never seen civilopedia
19:35:07 <andythenorth> that's interesting
19:35:13 * andythenorth never played civ
19:35:41 <frosch123> uhm, it's just the name for the in-game help pages since civ1
19:36:02 <frosch123> it has a page of blah about every game item/unit/building/...
19:36:34 <andythenorth> link would be fine, no compile time increase :P
19:36:46 <andythenorth> it's just a static prop right?
19:39:29 <frosch123> question is whether links should continue to be online links, or whether the html should be bundled into the bananas tar
19:39:56 <frosch123> though i guess opening html as file:/// is something we do not want to start
19:41:40 <andythenorth> bit of a headache
19:42:47 <frosch123> maybe we need a short-url service
19:43:17 <frosch123> you register links in bananas. grfs link to bananas, bananas redirects to whatever is the latest known real url
19:43:34 * andythenorth thinks of interesting failure modes for that
19:43:42 <frosch123> we wanted something like that for linking the wiki manual from within ottd
19:44:08 <andythenorth> we have a tool for that in one of our products, UUIDs to help center URLs
19:44:19 <frosch123> some method that keeps links in ottd 0.1 valid, when the rest of the world has proceeded to ottd 2.0
19:44:54 <andythenorth> can do it by path, or resolving UUIDs to a url mapping
19:45:04 <frosch123> ottd's uuids are 4 byte :p
19:45:05 <andythenorth> i.e. /1.0/foo /2.0/foo etc
19:45:34 <andythenorth> if I could figure out how to re-created bundles style publishing, my newgrf docs would work on the path method
19:45:52 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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20:08:29 <andythenorth> if we did resolve via openttd, in theory we could terminate malicious urls
20:11:02 <Wolf01> What could I do this evening? Sleep?
20:15:58 <andythenorth> I am going in the hot tub
20:16:09 <andythenorth> not used it enough recently :P
20:16:44 <Wolf01> If I do that I'll die. I'll drown while sleeping
20:18:16 <duckfullstop> does anyone that's worked on the network stack know why ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY wants an AdminUpdateType of uint16, but ADMIN_POLL wants an AdminUpdateType of uint8?
20:18:33 <duckfullstop> (or am I being exceptionally thick right now?)
20:30:23 <LordAro> i'd imagine the docs are incorrect?
20:30:32 <LordAro> rather than there being any actual difference
20:30:34 <duckfullstop> nope, server resets my connection if I send a uint8
20:30:49 <frosch123> no, network_admin.cpp contains both Recv_uint16 and Recv_uint8
20:31:14 <LordAro> not that that makes sense with TCP
20:31:21 <frosch123> it's probably copy&paste in Receive_ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY
20:31:39 <duckfullstop> joan casts it to the correct integer size, which is what I'm doing now
20:31:41 <frosch123> i think it was intended to be a byte (it only has 10 values)
20:31:45 <duckfullstop> it just feels like a glaring oversight
20:31:56 <frosch123> but since Receive_ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY uses uint16 for the frequency, it was copy&pasted for the type
20:47:45 <frosch123> also blame the reviewer :) though no idea who was that
20:47:47 <duckfullstop> probably best to add some erratica to the docs covering this
20:49:03 <frosch123> it's easier for newgrf. we just define the whole spec as errata
21:47:02 <andythenorth> maybe I'll start Euro Horse
21:47:20 <andythenorth> Brit Horse really is done apart from vehicle transporters
21:47:29 <andythenorth> and I can't be arsed to draw the vehicles for those
21:52:52 * andythenorth knows very little about euro trains
21:52:57 <andythenorth> is snail_UES_ here? o_O
21:53:44 <snail_UES_> you mentioned vehicles to show on trains?
21:53:51 <snail_UES_> like, cars being transported?
21:54:01 <andythenorth> yes, but my question to you is about European trains :)
21:54:24 <andythenorth> I want to design an Iron Horse European roster
21:54:45 <snail_UES_> but also very ambitious… which trains would you choose? there’s a huge variety
21:54:54 <andythenorth> I know a lot about UK trains, and where I can bend things to fit the game
21:54:57 <snail_UES_> I’d personally go for French and German steamers, Italian and Swiss electrics
21:55:22 <andythenorth> I need to figure out a theme
21:55:44 <andythenorth> the UK one is based around the idea that freight is quite fast by 1990s
21:56:10 <andythenorth> and that we don't have much *very* high speed pax, but we have quite a lot of quite fast pax
21:56:12 <andythenorth> and everything else just fills in around that
21:56:37 <snail_UES_> it’d be a pretty generic set, right?
21:56:41 <andythenorth> I guess narrow gauge has much more potential for Europe
21:56:47 <andythenorth> UK barely any serious NG
21:57:00 <snail_UES_> oh yes, there were a lot of NG vehicles around there
21:57:24 <andythenorth> so I'd probably do as you suggest, something like Alpine region trains
21:57:37 <andythenorth> although I did want to include IORE from Sweden
21:57:45 <snail_UES_> you could have two or three engines per era
21:58:03 <snail_UES_> let’s say, you start with a Crampton and a 0-6-0 in the 1850s
21:58:19 <andythenorth> what are the most iconic other trains?
21:58:27 <andythenorth> TGV has to be there, and La Poste version
21:58:50 <andythenorth> probably double deck TGV as well, so that's high speed *and* high capacity
21:59:10 <andythenorth> so maybe theme is "you don't planes" :P
21:59:23 <snail_UES_> you’d have to include something like a German P8 4-6-0 steamer
21:59:28 <snail_UES_> those were used pretty much everywhere
21:59:48 <andythenorth> germany for high horsepower diesels also?
22:00:30 <snail_UES_> I’d say a bit smaller
22:00:38 <snail_UES_> the P8 came in earlier than 1930
22:00:54 <snail_UES_> Continental Europe had pretty much switched to Pacifics by the 1930s
22:01:06 <snail_UES_> yes, that’s more like a P8
22:01:07 <andythenorth> ok so quite big engines for universal service?
22:01:28 <andythenorth> the german ones?
22:01:28 <snail_UES_> they were extensively used in France
22:02:15 <snail_UES_> yes, that’s the post-war American-built one
22:02:33 <glx> <andythenorth> TGV has to be there, and La Poste version <-- at least 5 different versions
22:02:57 <andythenorth> not sure what to do with freight
22:03:20 <snail_UES_> freight: 0-6-0 Bourbonnais for the very early years
22:03:32 <snail_UES_> then you switch to 0-8-0 like the Prussian G8
22:03:54 <snail_UES_> you can then leap to the 2-10-0 Decapods if you don’t want to include too many engines
22:04:07 <snail_UES_> Decapods were used pretty much everywhere, from France to Germany, even in Italy
22:04:13 <andythenorth> there's room for a bit of variety in engines
22:04:18 <andythenorth> as long as it has a clear role
22:04:33 <snail_UES_> then you could slip a 2-8-0 between the 0-8-0 and the Decapods
22:04:51 * andythenorth wonders how fast freight should go
22:05:00 <andythenorth> and capacity per unit length also
22:05:06 <andythenorth> Horse is 75mph by 1960
22:05:06 <snail_UES_> 160 km/h? but only in the later years
22:05:18 <snail_UES_> yeah that sounds accurate for Europe too
22:05:26 <snail_UES_> freight would have electrics since the 1950s
22:05:40 <snail_UES_> or even a bit earler. You totally should include the Swiss Crocodile for those
22:05:44 <andythenorth> I think Euro freight is probably about the same as UK
22:05:58 <snail_UES_> I’d say more electrics and less diesels, compared to the UK
22:06:21 <snail_UES_> you put the Crocodile for ealrly freight service, then perhaps a Re 6/6 also from Switzerland
22:06:42 <snail_UES_> or some German locos such as the E50
22:06:46 <andythenorth> UK was short of inspiration
22:06:53 <snail_UES_> yes that looks perfect
22:07:18 <snail_UES_> I’d also include an Italian E636, that’s a cool two-part locomotive that was extensively used for freight service
22:07:43 <snail_UES_> and the high-speed electric trains from the 1920s, such as the ETR 200
22:08:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: assuming the brittish roster is for flat terrain, maybe the european one should be for mountains? or is that too swissy?
22:08:38 <andythenorth> I was thinking relatively higher power
22:08:47 <andythenorth> but then that needs game balance
22:08:50 <andythenorth> so heavier wagons?
22:09:06 <andythenorth> it doesn't need perfect game balance but something
22:09:41 <snail_UES_> yes, heavier wagons, The loading gauge is larger in Europe than it is in the UK
22:10:06 * andythenorth wonders what average freight train speeds are in alps
22:10:19 <andythenorth> they are really quite fast in UK, due to track access charges and narrow scheduling with pax
22:10:33 <andythenorth> much faster than is economic, based on fuel or delivery time payment
22:10:38 <snail_UES_> not very high. I’d say they wouldn’t go beyond 100 - 110 km/h even now
22:11:04 <snail_UES_> plus, we have some mountain passes where two locomotives are required to pull a heavy freight train
22:11:19 <snail_UES_> sometimes they even put a loco at the end of the consist for better braking force
22:12:57 <andythenorth> maybe depots should offer different vehicles depending on terrain :)
22:14:09 <snail_UES_> I was also thinking about that, for my French set… it will include 8 regional companies before 1938
22:14:50 <andythenorth> dedicated lines for high speed (railtype)?
22:15:03 <andythenorth> I tried adding one for UK roster actually, but it doesn't do anything
22:15:03 <snail_UES_> yes, but only after, like, 1960
22:15:15 <snail_UES_> the early high-speed trains used to run on the same lines as the other trains
22:15:15 <andythenorth> curve speed bonus doesn't work, I read openttd src, nml src, can't see why :)
22:15:51 <andythenorth> maybe newgrf spec needs an errata :)
22:15:55 <snail_UES_> you should start with the electric ETR 200, then perhaps introduce the ETR 300 (it had a very innovative shape), then you might want to include the French TurboTrain, the TGV, and the first Pendolino from Italy (tilting train)
22:16:16 <snail_UES_> and the German ICE
22:16:43 <andythenorth> ooh 1936 ETR 200
22:17:03 <andythenorth> diesel and electric railcars are pretty vanilla?
22:17:03 <snail_UES_> yes, it held the speed record for quite a whilr
22:17:09 <andythenorth> I could do michelins and stuff
22:17:16 <snail_UES_> well, there is the Swiss Red Arrow that was really cool
22:17:19 <andythenorth> or the one with the cockpit on the roof
22:17:41 <snail_UES_> Renault also built a “panoramic” railcar, that should be in (think tourists)
22:18:35 <andythenorth> narrow gauge...what's the big Swiss line?
22:19:46 <andythenorth> Rhaetian Railway
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22:19:58 <andythenorth> so electrified NG
22:20:06 <snail_UES_> NG should be Swiss mostly
22:20:19 <snail_UES_> with some side orders of German and French things
22:20:47 <snail_UES_> you should at least put the A80D railcar, a cute little thing that was very widespread in France
22:21:49 <supermop_Home> andythenorth vehicle transport?
22:22:00 <andythenorth> if we had vehicles in vehicles...
22:22:22 <supermop_Home> in this case, vehicles under vehicles...
22:23:00 <snail_UES_> if you want vehicle transport, I drew an entire roster of cars from the 1900s to the modern times
22:23:12 <snail_UES_> about 12 models per 15-year era
22:23:54 <snail_UES_> I basically modeled something like 60 French cars across a century :) I can give them to you if you’re interested
22:24:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8224: Cleanup: Remove redundant implementation of TakeScreenshot https://git.io/JfbZ4
22:24:21 <andythenorth> I am probably doing trucks, as the FIRS sprites are trucks
22:24:26 <andythenorth> but I am not sure yet
22:24:36 <snail_UES_> they’re in the same scale as my NG trains, so that they look good on flatcars
22:24:52 * andythenorth also considering a stupid motor-rail idea, with vehicle wagons 'carrying' pax
22:25:03 <snail_UES_> I can put them in a file and send them to you in a PM if you want
22:26:02 <snail_UES_> but I’m interested in your roster for Euro trains, we can talk more about that
22:26:03 <andythenorth> I could really emphasise electric-only for fast trains
22:26:23 <andythenorth> there's no point just replicating UK gameplay, but slightly changed sprites
22:26:29 <snail_UES_> yeah they were pretty much all electrics… except for the turbotrain
22:26:35 <snail_UES_> and the TAR from the 1930s :p
22:26:41 <andythenorth> what's the big french CC electrics?
22:27:19 <andythenorth> I thought so, but they're diesel?
22:27:30 <snail_UES_> haha no, the CC7100
22:27:45 <snail_UES_> 72000 was a diesel, and so was the 7200, which was a broken nose. I got confused
22:27:50 <glx> some BB were quite common too
22:28:00 <snail_UES_> the CC7100 is the big French electric you may want to include
22:28:34 <snail_UES_> some 7100’s were even converted to third rail to work on an Alpine line
22:28:50 <snail_UES_> yes the AC version of the 7200
22:29:37 <snail_UES_> it looks the same, and so does the 22200 (15000 + 7200) which had both AC and DC
22:29:54 <andythenorth> I saw one when I was a kid
22:29:58 <snail_UES_> the Netherlands also used broken noses, so you should use them
22:30:09 <andythenorth> hauling a conventional TEE in middle france
22:30:45 <snail_UES_> those were the first broken noses to be introduced
22:32:07 <andythenorth> made a big impression
22:32:19 <andythenorth> also how much freight there used to be then
22:32:32 <andythenorth> there were little sidings and tracks to every industry in the town I stayed in
22:33:02 <snail_UES_> freight was a big thing in Europe… it still is, but perhaps not as much
22:33:14 <snail_UES_> some of it was moved to trucks
22:33:21 <andythenorth> where I grew up was endless trains, but 100% coal
22:33:36 <andythenorth> only coal mines, only 32 wagon trains of coal trucks
22:33:42 <andythenorth> not even pax service
22:34:02 <andythenorth> identical train every 15-30 minutes going to power stations
22:34:08 <andythenorth> now we have...climate change :)
22:34:10 <snail_UES_> the modern locomotive you showed me earlier seems good for your purpose
22:34:23 <snail_UES_> before that, I’d go with something like a Swiss Re 6/6
22:34:29 <andythenorth> yeah I like the re
22:34:46 <andythenorth> I could do a super-power double 4/4
22:34:55 <snail_UES_> although you may want to include at least one of the many two-part locos from Italy
22:35:32 <snail_UES_> the Crocodile before that, and maybe some early German electric
22:36:00 <snail_UES_> and steam before that (Decapods_
22:36:14 <andythenorth> definitely need krokodils
22:36:17 <andythenorth> there are so many
22:36:41 <snail_UES_> basically every nation had theirs :)
22:36:56 <snail_UES_> but the Swiss was the best
22:39:16 <andythenorth> there just aren't any except shunters
22:41:45 <snail_UES_> pretty much the same in Italy
22:42:19 <snail_UES_> diesel was (is) a thing mostly in Germany, France, Netherlands...
22:42:51 <glx> there are still non electrified lines in france
22:44:02 <snail_UES_> what do they use there? mostly railcars or MUs, I guess?
22:44:14 <andythenorth> plenty of high HP diesels from DR / DB
22:44:19 <andythenorth> but I could ignore those
22:44:25 <snail_UES_> I think the line between Grenoble and Briançon is still not electrified
22:46:19 <glx> yeah 67000 was very common
22:47:48 <snail_UES_> right.. now it must be all Primas, I presume? the BB27000?
22:55:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] h3xx commented on pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/JfbnV
22:57:16 * andythenorth looks for alpine horse breeds
22:57:24 <andythenorth> or 4 legged similar animals
23:25:05 <Samu> I downloaded the new NotPerfectAI but it cannot start
23:25:35 <Samu> if i exctract the .tar file, then it can run fine
23:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, milka is not swiss...
23:27:35 <andythenorth> is that like skir is not finnish?
23:31:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #8230: Cannot open the file when starting AI downloaded via online service https://git.io/JfbcQ
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