IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-05-07
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00:00:59 <Yexo> Tested locally, I can immediately trigger a desync with such a savegame
00:01:04 <Yexo> Becomes impossible to join the server
00:06:32 <frosch123> Yexo: ah, it only calls SetDockingTile, but it never notifies the station
00:07:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Yexo opened issue #8119: Desync after building diagonal track next to dock end https://git.io/JfnI2
00:07:53 <Yexo> As in, soon time for bed
00:09:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #8119: Desync after building diagonal track next to dock end https://git.io/JfnI2
00:09:51 <Yexo> There is another inconsistency related to docks and halftiles: after building the dock I can create a half-tile at the end by raising the land, but if the half-tile already exists I can't build the dock
00:10:14 <Yexo> Which also means there are situations where if you buildoze an existing dock you can't rebuild it without extra terraforming
00:10:24 <frosch123> yes, that's an old issue
00:10:58 <frosch123> it was like that in ttd, since ships headed to the tile in line with the dock
00:11:12 <frosch123> but apparently IsValidDockingDirectionForDock now does the opposite
00:11:21 <frosch123> so the builddock check should be changed as well
00:13:11 <Yexo> Is that a quick fix? Otherwise I'll create another issue to not forget
00:13:30 <frosch123> please make an issue, it's also bed time for me :)
00:26:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8119: Desync after building diagonal track next to dock end https://git.io/JfnI2
00:28:01 <Yexo> LordAro: see above: <_dp_> frosch123, but if you're looking for desync it happened on server with no ships at all
00:31:40 <LordAro> though that could be the other desync :p
00:34:55 <_dp_> even on reddit not all new clients desync, some connect just fine
01:04:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #8120: Add: docking tiles cache check https://git.io/Jfntt
01:35:03 <LordAro> glx: worth adding #8120 to the backport list, do you think?
02:00:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #8117: Memory leak: All incoming admin port packets leaked https://git.io/JfnJ8
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02:27:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #118: Fix: Allow calculation for palette in spritelayout https://git.io/JfZjA
02:27:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #118: Fix: Allow calculation for palette in spritelayout https://git.io/JfZi5
02:29:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #118: Fix: Allow calculation for palette in spritelayout https://git.io/Jfns9
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06:56:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8116: Old patchpack savegame versions will soon overlap https://git.io/JfZsT
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09:56:58 <rudolfs[m]> Does anyone know the date of the next release?
09:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such date
09:59:33 <rudolfs[m]> Alright. Are there any heads-up calls shortly before the releases?
10:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there's usually a release candidate a week before
10:15:55 <rudolfs[m]> Cool! This is good to know. Thanks!
10:15:56 <andythenorth> if you watch the GitHub you can see activity prior to a release
10:16:25 <andythenorth> shows that we're likely to do a release soon, there's many 'backport requested' PRs
10:16:56 <andythenorth> the traditional date for annual release is April 1
10:17:29 <rudolfs[m]> Yeah, looks like I missed that one :)
10:21:40 <Yexo> out of curiosity, why is the date of the next release important to you?
10:23:48 <rudolfs[m]> Translation maintenance. Just before release I like to make sure that nothing is missing or broken.
10:25:54 <Yexo> Translations are generally not backported to release branches as far as I'm aware, so you'd have to do that before the release branch is created
10:26:32 <Yexo> The 1.10 branch was created on Feb 8th this year
10:26:45 <Yexo> It's roughly around that time every year.
10:27:10 <Yexo> So you can set a reminder in your own calendar to check translations end of January 2021
10:28:02 <rudolfs[m]> Good idea! Thanks!
10:29:04 <Yexo> A general announcement email to all translators would be nice to do, but I guarantee that's going to be forgotten
10:29:07 <LordAro> Yexo: translations have been backported for the last few releases
10:29:36 <Yexo> rudolfs[m]: So you can even double-check now and your fixed might be backported to 1.10.2
10:29:58 <LordAro> and the translation service is going to be rewritten "soon"
11:27:35 <Samu> caused by rail placement
11:29:14 <Wolf01> Minecraft RTX, reflecting only the arm is a bit... meh
11:35:52 <LordAro> Wolf01: almost as if it's just a tech demo, rather than actually any good for actual gameplay
11:35:56 <LordAro> like all shaders really
11:37:09 <Wolf01> The mirror room is fantastic btw
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11:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> well, mirrors is the only thing RTX is actually useful for
11:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> everything else can be done with regular 3D+shaders
11:46:38 <Wolf01> And lightning, I really like the sun light coming from different angles and not top down even when the sun is at the horizon
11:47:14 <Wolf01> Yes, the lightning could be made with shaders too, but with RTX is somewhat different
11:48:12 <Wolf01> Also I'm blocked in temple and totems :E
11:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> can't really help you with that :)
11:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "<LordAro> Wolf01: almost as if it's just a tech demo" <-- maybe that it's called "demo" gave it away??
12:00:58 <LordAro> it's not being marketed as such
12:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you and i have been seeing different marketing then
12:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> now, lets give this error reporting mod a spin?
12:16:28 <Wolf01> Let me see what is throwing those 10 errors when I resume a savegame
12:19:43 <Wolf01> Uh, only one, duplicated prefab data
12:28:54 <Samu> strange, why doesn't the ship dock if it's a docking tile
12:29:36 <Samu> m1 has 0x80, the flag is set
12:29:47 <Samu> but the ship doesn't stop for loading
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12:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> my rail network is hopelessly overloaded, as usual
12:41:31 <Samu> if (st->docking_station.Contains(gp.new_tile)
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13:19:02 <Samu> how important is it for a priority queue to return true on insert vs nothing returned?
13:23:46 <Samu> return true; - 10702 ticks
13:24:06 <Samu> i wanna know if i can get away with just return;
13:24:57 <Wolf01> Check where is called and if the result is used for something
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14:20:01 <Samu> no longer memory hungry, and it can now make use of Exist function
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14:38:36 <Samu> indexer or enumerator, which name makes better sense in there?
14:43:24 <Samu> index seems more straigth to the point
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14:47:18 <Samu> theoretically there can be 1 << 63 - 1 indexes in the queue
14:47:36 <Samu> 9 223 372 036 854 775 807
14:47:54 <Samu> so im gonna assume it's not going to overflow
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15:02:19 <Samu> is there anything I can do to make Native Heap disappear?
15:04:10 <Samu> feels bad to leave it there hanging
15:05:07 <Samu> can't edit the description to tell it's superseeded
15:05:22 <Yexo> Just upload a newer version
15:05:33 <Yexo> Or do you want to completely remove/deprecate it?
15:06:09 <Samu> yes, ideally, but I suppose that's not possible
15:06:20 <Samu> the new version is called SortedList
15:06:37 <Samu> just uploaded it as an update to NativeHeap, but it didn't work out
15:06:48 <Samu> become an entity of its own
15:07:20 <Yexo> You can't remove it completely. It's possible to mark packages as "for usage in existing games only", so they're not visible in-game by default
15:07:25 <Yexo> But there isn't an API for that yet
15:07:43 <Yexo> It can only be done via PR to the bananas github repo
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15:21:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8091: Add: [Script] Native priority queue; useful e.g. for pathfinders. https://git.io/JfnD2
15:22:36 <_dp_> hm, so far only caught vehicle desyncs it looks like
15:24:17 <LordAro> _dp_: that's more or less the same information you get when doing desync debugging
15:26:29 <_dp_> LordAro, isn't there some way to replay the comands?
15:30:00 <LordAro> not via the admin port
15:30:18 <LordAro> requires a special build - see the desync debugging docs
15:31:25 <_dp_> LordAro, is that even feasible to do on an active server?
15:32:05 <_dp_> I guess reddit's test server is running that way but doesn't seem to catch it yet
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15:32:14 <_dp_> as no one plays on it :(
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16:54:23 <Samu> 5155534c-Queue.SortedList-2 ... this is a bad name :|
17:17:05 <TrueBrain> Easy solution: don't look in that folder
18:06:05 <supermop_Home> hopeeeryone is having a nie day
18:18:55 * andythenorth might play OpenTTD
18:22:05 <supermop_Home> unprecedented ?
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19:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:53:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 approved pull request #118: Fix: Allow calculation for palette in spritelayout https://git.io/JfnA7
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21:22:53 <Wolf01> So, I forgot to enable the halo campaign... so now I have to wait for it to download :E
21:36:33 <Samu> should I provide a rudimentar BuildPath function in the pathfinder itself?
21:37:01 <Samu> using the pathfinder and building the path itself
21:37:19 <glx> pathfinder should just give a list of tiles
21:37:34 <glx> it's up to the AI to build
21:37:47 <Yexo> What is your ultimate goal here?
21:37:47 <Samu> ok, then i better provide an AI, need to start one from fresh
21:38:08 <Samu> goal is to upload a canal pathfinder to bananas for others to use
21:38:52 <Yexo> Building canals should be fairly similar to building roads, right?
21:39:27 <Samu> nop, it's quite difficult actually, due to locks
21:39:34 <Yexo> Providing an example BuildCanals() function (in a readme/documentation) would be a nice bonus, but otherwise simply upload as-is if you're happy with the state
21:41:14 <Samu> i'm not good at documentating things, ewrm, maybe an AI
21:43:54 <Samu> there is something "difficult-to-implement" for a BuildPath function, which is 2 tile sized aqueducts
21:44:25 <Samu> using DistanceManhattan > 1 will not suffice when detecting whether the pathfinder wanted to build an aqueduct or not
21:45:29 <Samu> the pathfinder can plan them, but someone who's going to create a BuildPath function will surely have trouble implementing this. It requires quite a number of checks
21:45:32 <Yexo> In theory that's true for roads as well
21:45:41 <Yexo> Although it doesn't matter as much if it gets ignored there
21:49:40 <Samu> road pathfinder v4 has a minimum bridge length of 3, DistanceManhattan > 1 is an easy check here
21:50:26 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I assume you tested the templates; didn't know you could use ".plural" on dict
21:51:00 <Samu> gonna prepare a website for this
21:51:31 <frosch123> for jinja a.b is equivalent to a["b"]
21:51:45 <frosch123> except it does not work for keys with dash
21:53:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 closed issue #23: Map enums from API to nice looking user-readable values. https://git.io/Jftqd
21:59:59 <Samu> don't be scared at my code style, it's very horizontal
22:06:02 <Yexo> dThat pages gives me a 404
22:09:45 <Samu> ah, i see a lock, seems that i made it private?
22:10:13 <LordAro> if the main repo page was a 404, a more specific link certainly isn't going to work
22:14:07 <Yexo> It's definitely missing a license
22:15:07 <Samu> it will have a license when i upload and download the licenses to/from bananas
22:15:24 <Yexo> It does: no license = all rights reserved, nobody can publish changes etc.
22:15:40 <Yexo> If you were to disappear, nobody can fix any bugs but they have to start from scratch
22:16:16 <Samu> you can't create a pull request or so?
22:16:36 <nielsm> license is not about technology, it's about law
22:16:58 <Yexo> Technically I can, but I'm not allowed to publish your work with changes, so I'm not allowed to create changes to put in a PR in the first place
22:17:28 <nielsm> if you publish software, even a basic library for AIs in a free game, you need to choose a license to inform other users and potential contributors about their rights and obligations
22:17:34 <Samu> I don't have the license file, unless I copy from the other
22:18:28 <nielsm> and if you don't publish a license along with the software then the default, according to common copyright laws, is that nobody but you alone have the right to publish modified or unmodified versions
22:20:52 <Samu> can I copy the license.txt from other libraries?
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22:48:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #118: Fix: Allow calculation for palette in spritelayout https://git.io/JfnA7
22:48:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #118: Fix: Allow calculation for palette in spritelayout https://git.io/JfZi5
22:50:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #118: Fix: Allow calculation for palette in spritelayout https://git.io/JfcfU
23:00:58 <Yexo> Samu: most of the costs look fairly high compared to the normal tile cost
23:01:07 <Yexo> Have you experimented with lower cost values?
23:16:37 <Samu> it's mostly because it's costly to build canals
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23:17:25 <Samu> no_existing_water should even be higher but wtv...
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23:20:59 <nielsm> pathfinder costs doesn't need to have to do with construction costs, it should reflect how fast the route lets you traverse from A to B, first and foremost
23:21:37 <nielsm> construction costs should usually be secondary, unless you play with infrastructure maintenance on and there'd be upkeep costs as well
23:22:39 <nielsm> the pathfinder cost for building canals and locks and aqueducts should reflect the value in not having to take a detour across natural bodies of water
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