IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-04-16
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01:50:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created. https://git.io/JfvNr
02:48:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] agentw4b commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created. https://git.io/JfvNr
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02:55:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] agentw4b commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created. https://git.io/JfvNr
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08:52:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created. https://git.io/JfvNr
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09:51:46 <LordAro> can we not extend the town name lists? these town names are done based on index, right? so adding more shouldn't cause a problem?
10:11:39 <peter1138> No, they are not based on index, it's a random seed.
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11:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> we need a versioning system for town name generators, so we can deprecate/hide some, but keep them available for old savegames, and introduce replacements for new games
11:19:20 <LordAro> mm, i don't see why it shouldn't be relatively easy to remove the old method while maintaining compatibility
11:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i suggest you read up on how town names are generated first
11:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: there's prefixes and suffixes, and bit ranges, and stuff
11:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but the core of the problem is that the resulting names are not stored in the savegames
11:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so the town name generator must be kept alongside the savegame, to constantly recreate the names from the stored numbers
11:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so one approach would be to change that, and translate the numbers into names, then store the actual strings. you still need the original code to load old savegames, though
11:26:23 <LordAro> but it would mean we could at least safely add new names
11:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> we would have to make a snapshot of the current town name generators and put them into the saveload conversion code
11:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> then we could freely modify the town name generators from that point on
11:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (negative side effect is that for the ones we don't acutally change, there'll be two identical copies of them)
11:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming we won't actually change the system how they are generated, just the data tables
11:34:00 <LordAro> we could just keep the current town name generators, but only run them on map generation
11:34:15 <LordAro> then on load (of new versions), just use the strings
11:34:28 <LordAro> oh, yeah, that wouldn't work
12:22:18 <peter1138> Do we store the savegame creation version? (Rather than the current version?)
12:23:24 <peter1138> If so then you can use that to restrict the random ranges, and ensure that additions are added to the end of the list.
12:23:59 <peter1138> You can't change the algos really, but it does maintain compatibility somewhat.
12:24:16 <peter1138> I thinking having to start a new game to get new names is reasonable.
12:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i think that previous savegame versions are stored in the gamelog, but i don't think there's any code to access that at the places where it would be needed
12:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd break all sorts of encapsulation if you allowed that
12:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: not sure what you mean with "end of the list". all possible numbers stored in the savegame are already assigned to names, there's no "free" slots or anything that you could fill up
12:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have to "normalize" the stored values first, so all numbers that get mapped to a name, then get remapped to one single number
12:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> which would achieve the same thing, but would be more complicated, than storing the strings directly
12:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and again, we would need to keep snapshots of all previous versions around for recreating that on loading old savegames
12:34:35 <peter1138> I mean end the of the list of town name parts
12:34:45 <peter1138> So new games can use all the list
12:35:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand
12:35:08 <peter1138> Old games are restricted to the first X where X is the number of items at the moment.
12:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not just a simple list, though, it's a weighted list, and adding a new entry might require changing previous weights
12:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you try to change the prefix/infix/suffix setup, you might have to scrap everything
12:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> "just add to the end of the list" doesn't get you from 300 towns to 10k towns
12:39:19 <peter1138> It does if you add 10k items to the end of the list :p
12:52:56 <LordAro> just make OTTD do a wikipedia lookup on load
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13:37:11 <peter1138> I wonder if 1.10 will run...
13:38:32 <peter1138> It took a while to load that up, heh
14:22:51 <Samu> hmm, i think the pseudo random number generator of openttd isn't fair
14:24:11 <peter1138> Randomness isn't fair.
14:24:19 <Samu> okay, it's the local authority denying dock placement
14:24:56 <Samu> i have this AI placing docks on randomly generated tiles
14:25:15 <Samu> it wasn't placing in some obvious places, turns out it's the local authority denying
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14:29:10 <Samu> I'm exhausting the map, trying to see if locks/docks don't block connections
14:31:32 <Samu> there must be some map configuration that allows for more aqueducts being built
14:31:42 <Samu> i've already set aqueduct max length to 4096
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15:39:38 <Samu> yay aqueducts are finally being built
15:39:47 <Samu> i needed the right terrain
15:40:21 <Samu> my locks were still blocking rivers :(
15:43:53 <Samu> I'm actually impressed by the number of connections it can create
15:55:54 <Samu> it needed 33 connections to fail one
15:56:27 <Samu> these maps aren't exactly flat
16:03:43 <Samu> question about bananas, how is that https://bananas.openttd.org/en/ Queue.NativeHeap already got 70 downloads? It's not downloadable via Online Content yet. I haven't uploaded the new version of my AI which makes use of it yet
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16:04:55 <Samu> in short, no AI has a dependency for it
16:05:48 <Samu> those downloads seem fake
16:07:00 <supermop_Home_> I guess finish doesn't lend itself as well to making new townnames by combining parts?
16:07:48 <supermop_Home_> i had always noticed it seemed to be be the smallest of the built in town names... but i never really needed more than 300 towns
16:10:31 <peter1138> Oof, this is Debian 3.0 :D
16:18:02 <supermop_Home_> does anyone else find it kind of funny to see requests for other people to fix "The Free Rider Problem" in an game that is made by a group of volunteers and then made freely available to the public?
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16:45:38 <andythenorth> now that you've pointed it out
16:45:50 <andythenorth> bring back the lolz!
16:46:16 <andythenorth> oh supermop has left the building :(
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17:18:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ysangkok opened issue #8089: Byte order CPP definition not defined on FreeBSD https://git.io/JffEs
17:23:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8089: Byte order CPP definition not defined on FreeBSD https://git.io/JffEs
17:26:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8088: More than 327 Finnish cities or towns cannot be created. https://git.io/JfvNr
17:26:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8089: Byte order CPP definition not defined on FreeBSD https://git.io/JffEs
17:33:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] dwfreed commented on issue #8089: Byte order CPP definition not defined on FreeBSD https://git.io/JffEs
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18:07:43 <Samu> I think my canal pathfinder is finalized at last
18:07:52 <Samu> can't seem to find any more issues
18:08:27 <Samu> no more locks blocking canals
18:08:36 <andythenorth> nielsm that's lolz
18:08:39 <andythenorth> more lolz needed
18:08:57 * andythenorth lost the OpenTTD joy recently, what with all the bureaucracy and stuff
18:09:00 <andythenorth> be nice to get it back
18:11:15 <Samu> I didn't really test ship depots that extensively though
18:11:30 <Samu> they're also an important piece
18:11:47 <Samu> but the pathfinder doesn't build them actually
18:12:50 <Samu> a route is not complete without a ship depot
18:13:00 <Samu> gotta test this... arf :(
18:18:55 <FLHerne> nielsm: Are those lots of vehicles clipping together for some reason?
18:19:21 <FLHerne> Or just single, absurdly long ones?
18:19:39 <FLHerne> Oh, I think I see cabs in the middle
18:20:37 <nielsm> just a snake of trams hogging each other's end
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19:18:51 <peter1138> Heh, Minecraft RTX beta release broke MS Insider stuff due to quantity of users...
19:45:50 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:47:20 <Samu> AI's cannot rename ship depots?
19:48:47 <Samu> damn ship depots are still blocking
19:52:14 <rotterdxm> so i got my first game with really profitable trams
19:52:46 <rotterdxm> may be just me but it seems the trams´ pathfinding is greatly improved since i started using JGR
19:55:08 <glx> Samu: indeed AI/GS can't rename depots
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20:30:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly https://git.io/JffoY
20:30:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly https://git.io/JffoO
20:31:31 <andythenorth> nice one Samu :)
20:32:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #8074: Fix: [AI/GS] AreWaterTilesConnected wasn't handling aqueducts properly https://git.io/Jvhkg
20:36:45 <Samu> i thought locks were a headache, turns out ship depots are a bigger one
20:37:55 <andythenorth> nice one frosch123 :D
20:45:28 <_dp_> was ship lost spam not fixed?
20:46:08 <_dp_> or am I just doing it wrong...
20:48:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 commented on pull request #7: Changes to the page header https://git.io/Jffop
20:59:16 <nielsm> uh could someone remind me of the relationship between FISH and Squid Ate FISH ?
21:00:04 <frosch123> fish -> squid -> fish -> sam
21:00:23 <frosch123> it's like twix and raider
21:01:15 <frosch123> i am not sure whether squid is fish 3 or fish 1.5
21:01:18 <andythenorth> [mistakes] -> Sam
21:01:29 <andythenorth> just pretend the others don't exist
21:01:48 <andythenorth> Sam is not finished though
21:02:31 <Samu> hah, turns out I was using the wrong offset
21:05:12 <Samu> oh snap, i found a ship depot blocking a dock
21:06:10 <Samu> located at the right corner of the ss
21:08:11 <Samu> im a bit busy with ship depots blocking docks
21:10:37 <Samu> rails are different if I recall
21:11:48 <nielsm> have I mentioned before the scenario editor needs a forest brush?
21:12:27 <frosch123> i don't think anyone was interesting in SE since smatz
21:12:42 <frosch123> smatz wanted multiplayer-SE to make SE creation more interesting
21:16:11 <frosch123> lol, "apt-get install npm" wants to add 246 new packages
21:16:24 <frosch123> i guess i have no js dev environment
21:17:29 <frosch123> 5MB for 246 packages is also less than usual
21:18:25 <Samu> i'm preparing a savegame with those tiles frosch123 will test soon
21:38:46 <Samu> weird, AreTilesConnected require 3 tiles?
21:39:18 <Samu> this can't be tested properly
21:39:37 <Samu> "Check if a tile connects two adjacent tiles."
21:39:46 <Samu> but then requires 3 tiles as input
21:50:04 <frosch123> that's because there can be two tracks on one tile, which are not connected themself
21:51:34 <frosch123> to handle 90 degree turns you would probably need even 4 tiles, but i guess that is left to the ai
21:52:21 <Wolf01> <frosch123> i don't think anyone was interesting in SE since smatz <- and me
21:57:38 <Samu> the function works different than the other
22:01:05 <frosch123> 1945->2009->2073 is a cool rollercoaster connection
22:01:25 <frosch123> break through a wall and jump a cliff
22:02:54 <frosch123> 2202->2201->2137 is also nice
22:03:18 <frosch123> did i promise too much? :p
22:05:48 <Samu> maybe the function is wrongly named
22:07:05 <Samu> it checks if there is a certain track in the tile, but doesn't check if they are connected to the "from" or the "to"
22:07:43 <Samu> it checks if the track are heading towards those 2 directions
22:10:53 <frosch123> hmm, i see, the documentation actually also does not promise more
22:11:18 <frosch123> so, different to road and water
22:12:34 <frosch123> but the rail behaviour is still weird if the bridge/tunnel/depot is the middle tile
22:13:36 <frosch123> but i guess that is not avoidable
22:40:29 <peter1138> X-Plane time, maybe.
22:44:50 <frosch123> i installed a package using npm, and the files are dated to 1985
22:44:58 <frosch123> probably birthday of author?
23:04:10 <andythenorth> doesn't everyone use 1985 as epoch? :P
23:04:22 <andythenorth> quite probably not
23:16:56 <frosch123> hmm, how to insert a config value from python to js?
23:17:26 <frosch123> do i make the js a jinja template? or do i put the value somewhere into the html and read the dom in hs?
23:20:24 <frosch123> apparently the latter
23:29:22 <andythenorth> unless jinja has magic support, escapes can get exciting
23:31:18 <frosch123> i found an example :)
23:31:19 <andythenorth> something something xss risk
23:32:08 <andythenorth> if it's only a few values, data attributes are quite nice, but they don't scale wel
23:33:15 <frosch123> i think i figure out what needs doing, so i can finish this tomorrow
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