IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-03-16
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09:17:02 <Samu> ScriptRail::AreTilesConnected doesn't really check if the tiles are connected :(
09:20:10 <Samu> at least, in a way I would expect
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11:00:02 <busmania> Hello, i will install openttd on my lubuntu `18.04.4 machine but if i install the flatpak i get the 1.7.1 version and wen i will install the version from openttd.org i can;t install it. is this a known problem?
11:02:48 <Heiki> which version did you try to install?
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11:14:10 <busmania> the download opend automatic and i get a message that there is a lower version as flatpack. i click that message away and press install but is close only the pakketinstaller
11:15:19 <Heiki> try removing the flatpak version?
11:16:10 <Heiki> (and installing the deb version after that)
11:22:51 <busmania> i have unistalll all the version and pakkeges from openttd and even the download and it don not work now.
11:23:11 <busmania> i those the same thing as before
11:27:06 <Heiki> perhaps you might try downloading the file and then installing it from the command line (“sudo dpkg -i openttd-1.9.3-linux-ubuntu-bionic-amd64.deb”)
11:31:56 <busmania> i have openttd installed though downloading the install package from openttd.org to the downloads folder and than choose for install with software store. now i works.
11:38:22 <busmania> @Heiki, i want also to install openttd on a lubuntu 19.10 64 bit machine but i get " Error: Cannot satisfy dependecies" error is this becase openttd in not get supported for ubunut 19.10. i use the 18.04 install file.
11:40:47 <Heiki> which dependencies is it complaining about?
11:43:58 <busmania> @Heiki, i say it by the status on the QAPT package installer
11:45:06 <Heiki> you might get more informative error messages when trying to install from the command line with dpkg -i
11:47:28 <busmania> a get a message that say that there is no access to the archief
11:48:04 <Heiki> did you try as root (i.e. with sudo)?
11:48:38 <busmania> if i cd to the downloads folder i get more info about the error
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11:59:02 <Heiki> I just tried installing the Debian Stretch (= very old) version on Debian testing (= very new) and had no problems at all, so I suppose the 18.04 Ubuntu version should be good enough for 19.10 as well
12:03:47 <busmania> i get a error that libicu60 is not working and ass i want to install it with " sudo apt install libicu60 it will not work and i need to unistall openttd. installing after that it will not work and say it is not A candidate for this version
12:05:23 <busmania> and libicudata is make for 18.04 and i can't found a version for 19.10
12:07:59 <busmania> i think a have found a version that works with 19.10 but now sure.
12:13:58 <busmania> i have install libicu and it is succesfull but now i need libiculx60 but i can;t found a version for installing that for 19.10. does anyone know the command for that
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17:06:22 <Wolf01> Working from home... heh
17:55:18 <TrueBrain> was quiet okay, working from home
17:55:23 <TrueBrain> too bad Teams dropped out a few times, but meh
18:05:18 <andythenorth> I have been working from home on and off for 20 years
18:05:25 <andythenorth> I forget how unusual it is for some
18:05:35 <andythenorth> sometimes it's crap, sometimes it's great
18:05:36 <TrueBrain> there is a HUGE difference between working home once in a while
18:05:39 <TrueBrain> and working from home, period
18:05:53 <andythenorth> I worked on my own for months at a time
18:05:57 <andythenorth> massive cabin fever
18:06:07 <TrueBrain> mostly, it is boring as fuck
18:06:13 <TrueBrain> nobody to constantly talk to :P
18:06:33 <andythenorth> I get very noisy in chat apps
18:06:38 <andythenorth> ever seen that? :P
18:07:53 <TrueBrain> today I had groups that did not reply at all
18:07:57 <TrueBrain> even at the bestests of jokes
18:08:14 <andythenorth> you can always demand a video call
18:08:20 <andythenorth> that usually gets the gags flowing
18:08:24 <TrueBrain> I had so many today :P
18:08:33 <TrueBrain> I had more video calls today than in whole 2019, I noticed :P
18:09:03 <TrueBrain> what I like most about all this, how people adjust, and find a way
18:09:13 <TrueBrain> many many companies are now starting to use Teams
18:09:22 <TrueBrain> (as it is free for the next 6 months for them, I guess that is a good motivator)
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18:48:15 <Samu> first covid-19 victim in portugal... died some minutes ago, RIP
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19:01:58 <SpComb> Finland had its first covid-19 victim taken into intensive care today
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19:27:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: changed the API as discussed; package/content-type only returns the "new-games" versions, and no more /package/search
19:28:41 <Samu> i made a train ai for fun, actually was testing stuff
19:28:54 <Samu> turns out ok, might keep it
19:29:40 <Samu> won't release as a new AI, i'll try to integrate it into LuDi AfterFix
19:30:32 <TrueBrain> < Content-Length: 1419656 <- for NewGRFs. That is 1.4 MiB
19:30:40 <TrueBrain> better, but .. still far from useable :P
19:32:00 <TrueBrain> oops, I made a boo-boo
19:32:04 <TrueBrain> < Content-Length: 520379 <- there we go
19:32:13 <TrueBrain> that is already a lot better :D
19:33:24 <Samu> was testing whether I could reconstruct a list of tiles that contain the entirety of a rail route
19:33:38 <Samu> by just giving the station
19:40:09 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i made the templates so that only non-public pages show a user name / logout button
19:40:17 <frosch123> so the others can be cached by whatever
19:46:16 <andythenorth> what should new Bananas look like? o_O
19:47:12 <nielsm> yellow with shades of green, obv
19:47:49 <andythenorth> who's our designer these days?
19:52:31 <frosch123> firs&chips style bananas
19:59:05 <andythenorth> someone was doing the openttd website?
20:00:13 <frosch123> yeah, when the templates are pushed, we can send a message to the team
20:00:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: check "website people" team
20:02:08 <andythenorth> is there a templating language and all that jazz?
20:02:54 <frosch123> did you see my ugly screenshots?
20:03:09 <andythenorth> classic serif font html in my opinion
20:03:23 <andythenorth> how the internet is supposed to look :P
20:03:59 <andythenorth> has anyone decided on the UI framework choice yet? I really can't be arsed to get involved in that
20:04:33 <andythenorth> it's bad behaviour, but I realised all the ottd website and blog stuff is not really for me
20:04:43 <andythenorth> it's like doing my day job, again, only with other people in charge
20:04:43 <frosch123> i am writing a flask frontend, since noone wants two write a js frontend
20:05:22 <frosch123> but the api is there, so that someone can write a js frontend
20:05:32 <frosch123> maybe we find a teenager who enjoys that
20:05:53 <frosch123> quite sure only teenagers may enjoy it
20:08:48 <andythenorth> I used to enjoy writing Flash frontends
20:08:52 <andythenorth> bring back Flash :P
20:09:04 <andythenorth> I did not enjoy writing async Flash frontends
20:09:22 <frosch123> i would expect there are flash interpreters written in webm
20:09:28 <andythenorth> nobody should ever write any async UI stuff over a network ever
20:09:43 <andythenorth> having done it, it's a stunningly ridiculous thing to do
20:09:52 <frosch123> silly 4 letter ids :p
20:10:17 <andythenorth> and yet every 5 years we have to relearn that async over networks is bad
20:10:35 <andythenorth> and a whole part of the industry thinks it's just a tooling problem
20:10:52 <frosch123> people want to write websites in c++ now
20:11:01 <andythenorth> "that's probably fine"
20:11:08 <andythenorth> where is the state kept?
20:11:10 <frosch123> i looked at their example, it was filled to the top with sql injections
20:11:27 <andythenorth> oh so you just let third parties determine the state?
20:12:09 <andythenorth> so given that Everyone Hates Bootstrap
20:12:18 <andythenorth> which web framework is de jour now?
20:12:34 <andythenorth> all anyone agrees on is that Bootstrap Must Be A Bad Thing
20:12:53 <nielsm> from scratch is my favourite
20:12:58 <frosch123> no idea, my last update on that topic is from when eints was written, and there you liked bootstrap :)
20:13:17 <andythenorth> like is a strong word
20:13:28 <andythenorth> accepting that it is functional and won
20:13:44 <andythenorth> but it's much cooler to have opinions on why it's bad
20:14:18 <andythenorth> my favourite objection is 'all the divs damage the semantics'
20:16:39 <frosch123> maybe we can describe the page as .dot graph, with edges between related paragraphs
20:16:50 <frosch123> then some framework can layout based on that
20:17:38 <andythenorth> that's actually quite a nice idea :P
20:17:49 <andythenorth> the troll of it appeals
20:18:58 <frosch123> the roadmap is to upgrade from paragraph relations to sentence/word/letter relations?
20:19:58 <andythenorth> then we could micro-control typography
20:21:24 <andythenorth> "Semantic markup is about limiting HTML to only those tags required to express the content of the page, as opposed to its layout. Therefore, things like "container divs" are frowned upon.
20:21:24 <andythenorth> Well, Bootstrap does indeed make liberal use of layout-only elements like this one:"
20:21:48 <andythenorth> the semantic dream never dies eh
20:36:44 <dwfreed> the reality is to get the page to look the way you want, you've got to use divs all over the place
20:37:04 <andythenorth> the trick question is, 'what is the semantic value of a div'?
20:37:26 <TrueBrain> I would say: less talking, more building :)
20:37:34 <andythenorth> I am not in a building mood :P
20:37:40 <andythenorth> but I approve of the idea
20:40:07 <andythenorth> I think nielsm offered above to write us a web UI library?
20:42:48 * andythenorth was just reading about css grid examples
20:42:59 <andythenorth> apparently no framework is needed
20:43:15 <andythenorth> the method seems to be just defining css for specific tags
20:43:24 <nielsm> just demand everyone uses a sufficiently modern browser
20:43:34 <frosch123> nfw - noframework: sounds like a ottd thing
20:43:52 <andythenorth> I live in a world where 97-99% browser support is a target
20:44:00 <andythenorth> so I never know about this modern stuff
20:44:13 <frosch123> we just dropped win xp support, didn't we?
20:44:34 <frosch123> "just" = "two years ago" or so
20:47:38 <frosch123> i fixed the obvious lies on the new bananas frontpage
20:47:48 <frosch123> i did not yet fix the lies in the tos
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