IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2020-01-24
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08:32:47 <andythenorth> 15 trains to draw
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10:35:53 <andythenorth> Pikka: network south east 37 or riot
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12:37:40 <Pikka> NSE is a pretty good livery...
12:38:06 <andythenorth> can't be done in 1x zoom, the pixels are too fat
12:45:22 <peter1138> You try working in MODE 2.
12:45:53 <andythenorth> didn't that have really fat pixels?
12:46:05 <andythenorth> I did draw a load of pixel trains on the archimedes, then animated them
12:46:29 <andythenorth> I also animated a flying bird that crapped on the screen
12:46:57 <peter1138> Because flashing is a colour :D
12:48:17 <andythenorth> I could draw really fat trains
12:48:20 <andythenorth> then fat pixels are fine
12:48:30 <andythenorth> every problem has some kind of solution
12:48:40 <andythenorth> o/t was lunch mentioned?
12:49:41 <peter1138> It's a little early for me.
12:49:53 <andythenorth> I just had a snack
12:50:03 <andythenorth> ham, lettuce, mayo sandwich
12:50:09 <andythenorth> just a trifle ;P
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12:50:27 <andythenorth> hmm 2 more ore hoppers to draw
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12:51:33 <peter1138> Unofficial MODEs, eh?
12:52:05 <andythenorth> I want an unofficial mode for me
12:52:11 <peter1138> I've got a salad to eat. It's quite large -- I had to force my lunchbox lid on o_O
12:52:22 <andythenorth> my life seems to required that I only stick to supported behaviour :P
12:52:24 <peter1138> I also have a custard doughnut that was awarded to me this morning.
12:53:05 <andythenorth> I might have to upload some sprites to get some Pikka motivational comments
12:53:11 <peter1138> I dunno, I umm and ahhed and eventually gave in after rejecting :p
12:53:12 <andythenorth> how do I AWS again? o_O
12:53:54 <andythenorth> I have an s3 bucket
12:54:05 <andythenorth> maybe I should get an ftp app
12:54:12 <peter1138> Draw all your sprites in MODE 0. Black and white, and 1:2 pixels.
12:54:26 <peter1138> Ah, I just use my ownCloud these days.
13:00:30 <andythenorth> I should add back story for all the engines
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13:01:33 <Pikka> I should burn that wiki and make new documentation for everything, it's just too out of hand :)
13:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause> for the engines that are supposedly completely ficticious and not based on a real design?
13:02:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yes especially for those
13:02:34 <andythenorth> the realistic ones are easy, just google them :P
13:03:03 * andythenorth invents more ways to over-polish Horse
13:03:10 <andythenorth> whilst avoiding doing HEQS 9
13:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm currently undergoing brain melt in baba is you. my input might not be the most useful :p
13:06:43 <andythenorth> also I must to go, BBL
13:06:55 <andythenorth> Pikka: pls finish Horse thanks bye etc
13:47:44 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7955: WIP Feature: NewGRF Road Stops (Feature 14) https://git.io/JvtQZ
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14:53:55 <peter1138> So many snacks in my drawer but I had salad and a doughnut...
14:56:46 <andythenorth> I want a doughnut
14:56:49 <andythenorth> but I can't eat wheat
14:56:54 <andythenorth> or I can, but then I have to eat imodium
14:57:01 <andythenorth> which is a lifestyle choice
14:58:27 <andythenorth> doughnuts though
14:58:27 <peter1138> It wasn't a great doughnut, custard thing from Tesco.
14:58:45 <peter1138> But I offset it by not having the mini cheddars I was going to have.
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15:32:04 <TrueBrain> rotate your head 90 degrees
15:34:07 <andythenorth> oh it wasn't an instruction? Just advice?
15:39:02 <TrueBrain> an answer to a question :)
15:40:01 <peter1138> Shall I watch 1917 tonight?
15:40:07 <peter1138> Or David Copperfield?
15:44:15 <TrueBrain> watching OpenTTD? Sounds a bit boring
15:51:17 <andythenorth> it's not bad on twitch
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16:58:01 <planetmaker> he. 23rd March Azure will stop building macOS-10.13... so... will we need to adjust build pipeline?
16:58:50 <planetmaker> and... Windows Server 2012R2 with Visual Studio 2015 (vs2015-win2012r2)
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17:08:27 <nielsm> we don't do vs2015 builds do we? I think we're using 2017
17:09:36 <planetmaker> the mail claims we (have been) using on of 3 items mentioned... dunno the time frame microsoft consideres there
17:10:09 <planetmaker> Windows Server 2012R2 with Visual Studio 2015, a.k.a vs2015-win2012r2
17:10:09 <planetmaker> macOS X High Sierra 10.13, a.k.a macOS-10.13
17:10:09 <planetmaker> Windows Server Core 1803, a.k.a win1803
17:10:27 <planetmaker> so dunno which we use(d) and whether it's actually a concern
17:12:05 <nielsm> also speaking of CI, could we make the commit checker run the various regen scripts (vs projects, script widgets, script export) and fail if they result in unstaged changes?
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17:48:58 <spnda> So... How are sprites used in the game? Kinda not understanding it really...
17:56:12 <nielsm> at the lowest level, a sprite is loaded from a realsprite in the grf and assigned a SpriteID in the appropriate range
17:56:44 <nielsm> then that SpriteID is somehow retrieved again in some drawing code that adds it to the sprite sorter for drawing on screen
17:57:41 <nielsm> and the sprite sorter (or GUI drawing code) will then resolve that SpriteID to a drawable graphics object which is then passed to the blitter, which puts pixels on the graphics surface
17:59:12 <LordAro> nielsm: the thought was that those should be part of the git commit hooks
17:59:17 <spnda> Ok that makes sense... Just unsure how I would obtain the SpriteID again though
17:59:19 <LordAro> just no one ever implemented them
17:59:43 <nielsm> at the higher level, usually the SpriteID is not stored directly, but instead an action2 refers to the feature + item, then the drawing code will prepare a sprite resolver object with appropriate variables and such, and have it resolve the action2 callback chain
18:00:02 <nielsm> which will result in an action1, which describes the realsprites that are resolved
18:00:06 <nielsm> and that gets you a SpriteID
18:04:48 <spnda> nielsm: Well, I see that in Action3 there's a spritegroup assigned in one of my RoadStopSpec's. Though I don't see any of the station/object/house etc. code that references any StationSpec/HouseSpec etc.
18:06:15 <nielsm> I don't remember what action3 is, I haven't worked with anything that uses that yet
18:06:38 <nielsm> associates action2 with action0
18:06:53 <nielsm> because I haven't added new callbacks or new features yet
18:07:05 <supermop_work> building n my block has been on fire for more than 12 hours
18:07:11 <nielsm> and wrote everything interesting in nml :P
18:17:56 <andythenorth> supermop_work: bucket chain?
18:19:29 <supermop_work> andythenorth: just lots of high pressure hoses overspraying on my windows
18:20:08 <supermop_work> pretty pretty loud
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19:45:51 <DorpsGek_III_> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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20:00:33 <TrueBrain> so ... I want to render index.html pages for our downloads, which I can store on the CDN, instead of doing this when the website is being built ...
20:00:40 <TrueBrain> how shall I do that with Jekyll and all ..
20:00:49 <TrueBrain> render a template on a known URL, and sed my way through it
20:01:02 <TrueBrain> or render it or something ..
20:02:16 <TrueBrain> meh, not sure that is super useful ..
20:03:23 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: inspire!
20:05:00 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: javascript!
20:05:24 <andythenorth> or render it out with our own template replacement symbols, then pipe it through something
20:05:35 <andythenorth> [[[stuff here]]]
20:05:42 <andythenorth> edge side includes?
20:06:04 <TrueBrain> the rendering itself is pretty easy, to store the file
20:06:21 <TrueBrain> I am more wondering if I should render a page on something like www.openttd.org/template.html, and search/replace things
20:06:28 <TrueBrain> or that I should use Jekyll to render them properly or something
20:06:29 <andythenorth> yes, that's what I mean
20:06:37 <andythenorth> render out a template, from a template :P
20:06:55 <andythenorth> I do stuff like that in other places :P
20:07:22 <TrueBrain> I can also submodule the website, and use jekyll itself
20:07:29 <TrueBrain> not sure .. it is difficult, I guess
20:07:35 <andythenorth> pff, that sounds like doing it properly
20:07:44 <TrueBrain> but I kinda want to get rid of generating the download pages every night
20:08:04 <andythenorth> what content changes in the page?
20:09:06 <TrueBrain> the only thing that might change, is the website layout
20:09:14 <TrueBrain> in that case for all downloads the index should be rendered again
20:09:17 <TrueBrain> or possibly only for the new ones
20:09:28 <TrueBrain> if I use a template, images etc have to be stored somewhere nearby
20:11:06 <TrueBrain> that way, the website doesn't have to render them every night, as it is doing now (and it never changes, really)
20:11:13 <TrueBrain> it only changes if the layout itself changes
20:11:20 <TrueBrain> which is, relatively speaking, rare
20:11:24 <andythenorth> in which case we could just regenerate them all, once?
20:11:34 <TrueBrain> yeah ... just .... there are many to regenerate :D
20:11:40 <TrueBrain> but that will be fine, yes
20:11:47 <andythenorth> does it harm us to regenerate them all every night?
20:11:59 <TrueBrain> website deployments are a bit slow, because of it
20:11:59 <andythenorth> computers are cheap :P
20:12:02 <TrueBrain> otherwise, not really
20:12:08 <andythenorth> but string I dislike
20:12:19 <TrueBrain> my main issue is tbh, that the index.html page is on another domain, than the files are stored
20:12:24 <TrueBrain> so you cannot manually walk through all our files
20:12:31 <TrueBrain> which on one hand is okay, on the other hand is a bit silly
20:12:44 <andythenorth> we seem to have at least more than one domain
20:12:52 <andythenorth> fragmented domains always puzzle me
20:13:18 <TrueBrain> you can read openttd-cdn.org as a subdomain of openttd.org; that is not the real issue
20:13:19 <andythenorth> does the index page need to use the website styles?
20:13:45 <TrueBrain> that is the other solution .. I can render a simple index.html on the CDN, and have the website generate the pretty ones for a few
20:13:57 <andythenorth> simple tends to maintainable
20:14:09 <andythenorth> stringing things together tends to broken in production
20:14:12 <TrueBrain> as in that case we only render the ones for the latest nightly + stable + testing on the website
20:14:22 <TrueBrain> and have simple index.htmls on the CDN, for people who are nostalgic
20:14:32 <andythenorth> they're just directory listings, they don't need to be clever
20:15:02 <TrueBrain> the reason we used to make them clever, is to present people the ability to have a server on an older version, and have a link to a downloads html file which helps them download the right file
20:19:42 <andythenorth> the player base is doing fine
20:19:45 <andythenorth> dev is doing fine
20:19:58 <andythenorth> sysadmin...maybe has fewer enthusiastic people these days
20:20:40 <TrueBrain> not sure how that is helping :P
20:21:04 <TrueBrain> I could submodule the website, and run jekyll to create an nice index.html, and store the images on the CDN subdomain too .. hmm ..
20:21:07 <TrueBrain> that would work, I guess
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20:23:47 <TrueBrain> well, maybe a combination .. releases etc, make pretty index.html .. nightlies older than 90 days .. do not-so-pretty index.html
20:23:59 <TrueBrain> that means that if you re-render the HTMLs, it only has to be done for a small subset
20:34:58 <TrueBrain> hmm .. how to tell Jekyll to only generate a specific page .. hmmmmmmm
20:35:23 <Samu> when was this Zone feature added?
20:35:35 <Samu> town local authority zone with gray squares
20:36:12 <Samu> is it supposed to persist after closing the window?
20:36:26 <peter1138> Coverage? Or something else?
20:37:22 <Samu> button is Zone, in the town local authority window
20:37:41 <Samu> coverage shows red squares
20:39:40 <Samu> click town, then click local authority, then click zone
20:40:00 <Samu> then close the windows and the gray squares persist
20:43:05 <andythenorth> is it fixed in JGR?
20:43:16 <Samu> no idea, i dont play jgr
20:47:42 <peter1138> Time to continue playing Quake Episode 5: Dimension of the past.
20:52:31 <NGC3982_> oh my god i miss quake
20:53:12 <nielsm> quake is still a great game
20:53:45 <nielsm> and there's updated source ports that make playing it on modern systems as enjoyable as it was originally
20:53:50 <NGC3982_> i remember when i got quake 2
20:53:59 <NGC3982_> like 10 fps on my old ass pc
20:54:03 <NGC3982_> but it was so glorious
20:55:24 <andythenorth> I remember the quake hype
20:55:31 <andythenorth> it just wasn't quite Doom though
20:55:41 <NGC3982_> isnt there like a generation between the two?
20:55:48 <NGC3982_> or is q1 close to the doom release?
20:56:51 <peter1138> It was a "next gen", true 3D rather than Doom's 2.5D.
20:57:00 <nielsm> I never quite got onto the doom bandwagon, instead got hooked on quake
20:57:16 <nielsm> the movement in quake feels better to me
20:57:27 <nielsm> (and the Q1 rocket launcher is still the best RL in any game)
20:58:34 <Wolf01> <nielsm> quake is still a great game <- with rtx even better
20:58:53 <peter1138> Is there an RTX version of Quake?
20:59:13 <peter1138> Quake 2 isn't Quake.
20:59:21 <nielsm> actually... yeah I have an RTX2060 card and haven't used anything that takes advantage of it
20:59:40 <peter1138> Gameplay is majorly different.
21:03:07 <Wolf01> Isn't it like hexen/heretic?
21:04:05 <peter1138> Completely different enemies, the weapons are different, and the level pacing is different
21:07:39 <TrueBrain> a few bad links, but I will fix that :)
21:07:46 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: looks fine, I haven't clicked on anything :)
21:07:55 <peter1138> openttd-cdn.org? Strange.
21:08:15 <TrueBrain> peter1138: a bit; cloudflare powered OpenTTD domain
21:08:53 <TrueBrain> (only paid accounts can work on subdomains in cloudflare ... so we created a new domain instead :D)
21:10:22 <peter1138> All my domains are CF hosted anyway, as I'm lazy.
21:11:18 <TrueBrain> yeah, I didn't want to put openttd.org under CF for now, as .. there might be some drawbacks :)
21:11:52 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I can now generate index.html files for the CDN, which look pretty .. guess that should work fine for now
21:11:57 <TrueBrain> I just have to script it together, I guess
21:13:11 <TrueBrain> it does make the website render a lot faster too, which is nice :)
21:14:49 <TrueBrain> and I guess I have to copy 88GB of binaries to AWS ... ghehe :)
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21:26:12 <peter1138> How much is that costing? :p
21:26:36 <TrueBrain> 2 euro a month, since you asked :)
21:27:34 <TrueBrain> storage is dirt-cheap
21:27:49 <TrueBrain> transfer is the issue
21:27:55 <TrueBrain> but this is why cloudflare is in front of it :)
21:28:12 <TrueBrain> and cache-times will be LLOOOONNNNGGGG :D
21:29:48 <TrueBrain> it is funny, headers now show that both CloudFront as CloudFlare hit the cache :D
21:29:59 <TrueBrain> 1) why do we have two similar products called CF ...
21:30:06 <TrueBrain> 2) why do I see those headers :P
21:31:42 <glx> and compile farm (another CF) pushes there ?
21:59:28 <nielsm> is that ingredients for a lasagna?
22:10:54 <rptr> working on my AI: i am trying to get all industries, and getting the nearest
22:11:24 <rptr> i wrote my own valuator. function (industry, station) { return aimap.distancesquare(tile1, tile2);} etc
22:11:32 <rptr> but i only get really distant ones, and hardly *all* of the coal mines on the map
22:11:52 <nielsm> you give more distant ones a higher value like that
22:12:52 <nielsm> oh, I didn't know there is a choice like that :)
22:13:07 <rptr> hmm, the valuator only valuates some?
22:13:21 <rptr> of course if it's distance, high number = far away. and i want the nearest, so KeepBottom :D
22:13:32 <rptr> trying to look in other AIs but no luck
22:16:22 <rptr> DistanceSquare returns... larger values
22:23:04 <nielsm> it's the square of the distance
22:23:58 <nielsm> the euclidian distance between two points in a plane is the pythagorean formula, a^2 + b^2 = c^2, solved for c = sqrt(a^2 + b^2)
22:24:08 <nielsm> the squared distance is just c^2
22:24:21 * peter1138 attempts to watch Picard.
22:24:50 <nielsm> in games it's often useful to just have the squared distance, especially if you only need to order a set of distances from short to long
22:25:59 <nielsm> it's only if you want to weigh them relative to each other ("this distance is V amount better") them being squared is a problem
22:26:21 <luaduck> random question, has an include directive been debated for openttd.cfg before?
22:26:58 <luaduck> or a separate banned users file
22:27:34 <nielsm> separate banned users would make sense
22:27:48 <glx> I think include directive will never happen :)
22:28:08 <luaduck> reason I ask is that I'm fiddling with putting a k8s manifest together, and struggling to figure out how best to handle the configuration file; it could be defined in a ConfigMap that just mounts its own openttd.cfg fresh every time, but that is mounted read only
22:28:42 <luaduck> then obviously when the server tries to write to the config to add a naughty user it can't because RO
22:28:57 <glx> but I guess it should be possible to use a separate file for banned user and set its path in the cfg
22:29:42 <luaduck> see also: maybe a feature request to treat openttd.cfg as a static file in dedicated server mode (unless you explicitly call the write config command, I forget what it's called)
22:30:03 <luaduck> glx: yeah, or even better by runtime flag
22:30:19 <glx> there's a command line option to not write cfg
22:32:09 <luaduck> quote "do not automatically save to config file on exit"
22:34:20 <luaduck> which would be fine, but banned users are saved there, so they'd go in the proverbial bin on close
22:34:32 <luaduck> I'll raise an issue on github
22:37:21 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] duckfullstop commented on pull request #7859: Feature #7756: Allow server to supply a reason to kicked/banned clients https://git.io/Jvqkm
22:37:50 <rptr> nielsm, yeah, i relaised it's the SQUARE. i didn't think about what it means
22:37:53 <rptr> i assumed it was the euclidean distance
22:38:09 <rptr> oh right. so i could take sqrt(DistanceSquare
22:38:28 <rptr> i thought it was DistanceManhattan squared. which is stupid
22:39:49 <rptr> how do i convert a number to int in Squrl
22:42:54 <rptr> well. toInteger doesn't work
22:47:34 <Samu> isn't it always integer?
22:47:57 <nielsm> if you take the square root the result is a real number
22:49:03 <Samu> just use the squared value
22:49:50 <rptr> now to use my ep1c ch34tz on a real server
22:50:08 <nielsm> also remember that income from delivery is calculated from the manhattan distance, not euclidian distance
22:50:32 <rptr> it's annoying because i want to get all nearby industries to my station. and it gets quite distant ones, but not nearby ones because they are on the diagonal. very ugly
22:52:36 <nielsm> (screenshot so I can remember the signal positions!)
22:52:45 <nielsm> (not that they matter exactly)
23:02:31 <DorpsGek_III_> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] duckfullstop opened issue #7957: Add a flag to read banned users from a defined file instead of from openttd.cfg https://git.io/JvqkN
23:02:52 <nielsm> actually I agree with that being too many signals
23:03:04 <nielsm> they're placed about a station length apart (240 m)
23:03:32 <nielsm> prototypical signals would be spaced more like 3-5 km apart
23:03:48 <Wolf01> I place signals every kilometer or so
23:04:34 <nielsm> I want a tool to measure distance along track
23:06:00 <Wolf01> Agreed, also the ability to set (limit) the speed of tracks and roads
23:16:25 <Samu> that guy is obsessed with banning ppl
23:20:36 <luaduck> I haven't updated my nick here for legacy reasons
23:20:58 <luaduck> I run the reddit servers
23:22:08 <luaduck> our ban list is hilariously long, one moment
23:23:05 <luaduck> just checked, currently 388 addresses and counting
23:37:22 <Samu> last paste was t 30 Nov 2019, 08:52:28 UTC
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