IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-12-01
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00:03:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7849: Fix #7847: Use ViewportSign coordinates for sign Kdtree coordinates for stations https://git.io/Je1bx
00:15:55 <Samu> uhm, i forgot what was the command
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00:21:07 <Samu> waiting for sign to disappear
00:21:25 <Samu> is this the right way to test? load the savegame with the station?
00:21:41 <Samu> remove it, and lower terrain
00:21:47 <nielsm> also it helped me to test by getting rid of all installed AIs
00:23:52 <Samu> yep, sign poof, no crash
00:24:00 <glx> code looks good and simplifies a lot of corner cases
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00:25:26 <Samu> gonna try restarting the world
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00:27:41 <nielsm> glx: indeed after getting the idea it's quite a "why didn't I do that from the beginning" moment
00:29:23 <Samu> i should be in bed, they don't let me stay up this late
00:30:05 <glx> then go to be, you can test tomorrow :)
00:36:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #67: Minor changes in regression Makefile and .gitignore https://git.io/Je1N2
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00:51:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #67: Minor changes in regression Makefile and .gitignore https://git.io/Je1N2
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10:19:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth opened pull request #68: Fix: close image files after use during palette check https://git.io/JeMeP
10:23:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] nielsmh commented on pull request #68: Fix: close image files after use during palette check https://git.io/JeMeX
10:26:39 <nielsm> just to be annoying :)
10:29:18 <andythenorth> you can make that change if you want :)
10:29:52 <andythenorth> it's a trade of correctness vs. chances of introducing breaking change
10:30:02 <andythenorth> I did the quick thing, I am taking my kids to football soon :)
10:30:31 <andythenorth> there are a bunch of detailed notes specific to PIL / Pillow for context managers and .close()
10:33:16 <andythenorth> I suspect we really should be closing the other Image.open() cases as well
10:33:22 <andythenorth> unless that's already done :P
10:35:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #68: Fix: close image files after use during palette check https://git.io/JeMe5
10:36:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7729: Add #7525: Allow autoreplace with same model vehicle https://git.io/JeMed
10:37:07 * andythenorth learnt a lot yesterday :P
10:37:20 <andythenorth> after a whole day of work, I saved 27s on a 66s compile :P
10:37:37 <andythenorth> I'm sure that will pay off, right? :P
10:38:08 <SpComb> there's a handy reference table for that on xkcd
10:38:57 <andythenorth> it's in yesteday's logs
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10:40:51 <andythenorth> winner is me then
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11:41:38 <Samu> nielsm, it didn't crash in 1961, starting from 1935 :)
11:41:54 <Samu> i think you forgot something in waypoints
11:45:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7849: Fix #7847: Use ViewportSign coordinates for sign Kdtree coordinates for stations https://git.io/JeMvH
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12:28:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on issue #42: Document how to release nmlc, including building a windows binary https://git.io/Je8vQ
12:32:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker commented on issue #42: Document how to release nmlc, including building a windows binary https://git.io/Je8vQ
12:34:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on issue #42: Document how to release nmlc, including building a windows binary https://git.io/Je8vQ
12:36:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7849: Fix #7847: Use ViewportSign coordinates for sign Kdtree coordinates for stations https://git.io/JeMf2
12:45:10 <Samu> i can't see the comment :(
12:45:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JeMfy
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12:53:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JeREi
12:54:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JeREi
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12:56:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #7791: GS method to control engine availability for a specific company https://git.io/JeREi
13:05:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7849: Fix #7847: Use ViewportSign coordinates for sign Kdtree coordinates for stations https://git.io/Je1bx
13:06:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7849: Fix #7847: Use ViewportSign coordinates for sign Kdtree coordinates for stations https://git.io/JeMJt
13:20:03 <nielsm> basically will need to run through all the previous kdtree bugs and retest for them with these changes
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13:28:05 <Samu> i have no time atm, lunch is ready, be back later
13:29:50 <Heiki> (but now I’ll try to make some deep-fried spring rolls)
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14:45:17 <Samu> will it be fixed in next beta
14:46:44 <Samu> it's probably not the best way to fix it, but it works
14:48:57 <LordAro> Samu: i definitely want to see it fixed for 1.10.0
14:49:20 <LordAro> but yeah, might not be the correct solution
14:49:32 <LordAro> needs a peter1138, really
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14:50:58 <Samu> for example, the bug also occurs with NPF
14:51:34 <Samu> the fix only addresses YAPF, because it has this cache thing
14:56:12 <Samu> but the problem itself, is not cache related
14:57:12 <Samu> im using a fix in the cache to work around the problem
14:57:34 <Samu> I don't address the problem directly, that's why I think it's not the correct way to fix it
15:00:28 <Samu> the problem is: the road vehicle has turned around at the end of the road, and finds itself in a position where it needs to ask the pathfinder for directions
15:01:02 <Samu> but at the same time, the vehicle tries to advance, but is blocked by another, so it doesn't advance in the current tick.
15:02:02 <Samu> next tick, it repeats: finds itself in a position where it needs to ask the pathfinder for directions. It's in the same tile, same position as it was last tick.
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15:03:26 <Samu> the cache has some tiles, but not the initial tile
15:04:08 <Samu> it expects the vehicle to be in the next segment when trying to follow the cached path
15:04:35 <Samu> it's still in the same tile
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15:08:13 <peter1138> I'd say your fix is wrong because you'd need to ensure that data is stored in the savegame.
15:08:46 <Samu> doesn't seem to require savegame changes
15:09:14 <Samu> or at least, savegame conversion
15:09:53 <peter1138> It might look like it's working but I think it's not desync safe.
15:10:28 <peter1138> Anyway, if the vehicle can't move, it shouldn't consume from the cache. Hmm.
15:11:49 <peter1138> I don't remember entirely... did I assume that a vehicle would always be able to moved after filling the cache?
15:12:01 <peter1138> Cos that case would hold for ships (where it was originally implemented)
15:12:55 <peter1138> Maybe just invalidate the cache if the vehicle is blocked for whatever reason. Hmm.
15:13:37 <Samu> the cache is invalidated, and filled repeatedly, it just doesn't contain the where the vehicle is at
15:13:44 <peter1138> Or include the current tile in the cache and pop it off.
15:14:01 <Samu> yeh, that's probably what needs to be done
15:14:23 <peter1138> Right, so the issue isn't that the vehicle's cache is wrong, it's a performance hit?
15:14:47 <Samu> it can't follow the cache, because it's not containing the first tile
15:15:00 <Samu> it contains only the tile where the vehicle would be at next
15:15:23 <peter1138> So... it is wrong...
15:15:43 <peter1138> I wish I understood you.
15:15:51 <peter1138> NPF doesn't do any caching.
15:16:01 <Samu> the problem also happens there
15:16:13 <Samu> which makes me think, it's not entirelly a cache issue
15:16:49 <peter1138> Maybe if you defined the issue more clearly rather than half-way down the solution...
15:17:41 <peter1138> LordAro, I'd made up my mind I was going to cycle this weekend, after 7 or 8 weeks of not doing so.
15:18:06 <peter1138> LordAro, then I woke up at 2am on Saturday morning with a miserable cold and have felt like shit since :/
15:18:40 <Samu> try the 2 vehicle savegame
15:18:49 <LordAro> well i moved house today, so i couldn't get out either
15:19:42 <peter1138> Samu, I'll talk about things here, but I'm not getting into my dev environment.
15:20:17 <Samu> 1 vehicle blocks the other behind
15:20:30 <peter1138> Why are you still talking.
15:20:44 <peter1138> I'm not looking at any saves :p
15:21:53 <Samu> says in the comment if (rd.x & RDE_TURNED) {
15:21:53 <Samu> /* Vehicle has finished turning around, it will now head back onto the same tile */
15:22:19 <Samu> "same tile" is the tile that is not cached
15:22:41 <Samu> it is fine if the vehicle is not blocked, it asks the pathfinder once
15:23:04 <Samu> but when it's blocked, it repeatedly enters the "same tile"
15:26:10 <peter1138> So you want it to keep the cache instead of invalidating it?
15:26:25 <peter1138> But you can't because the cache is "from" the next tile, not the current tile?
15:29:14 <Samu> cache cant be followed, it only contains the next tile
15:29:49 <Samu> for the vast majority of situations, that is fine
15:30:13 <Samu> for this particular situation... it's not
15:31:08 <Samu> if the first tile is kept in the cache chain
15:31:30 <Samu> that may break the normal situations where the vehicle is advancing fine
15:32:08 <Samu> it'd have to skip first tile
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15:41:54 <Samu> I'm not sure how to test desyncs in this particular situation
15:42:29 <Samu> but the fix still should retrieve the exact path, with the difference that it's not hogging cpu
15:49:11 <peter1138> Yeah might be fine.
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15:49:34 <peter1138> As it's not a wrong-cached-path issue, it's a not-cached-path.
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16:01:59 <Samu> btw nielsm no crash so far with the latest changes, year 1971 and going
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16:23:43 <nielsm> okay time to try out some of the previous bug reports from kdtree, see if they remain fixed
16:24:14 <glx> yeah good idea to do a regression check :)
16:24:42 <glx> but your new implementation seems safer
16:24:57 <nielsm> we really should make a regression suite of old saves that need to be loadable
16:32:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7849: Fix #7847: Use ViewportSign coordinates for sign Kdtree coordinates https://git.io/JeMT4
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17:20:42 <andythenorth> what shall we do then?
17:21:00 <andythenorth> extend certain industry vars that only handle 2 or 3 cargos? o_O
17:21:08 <andythenorth> do the NRT docs?
17:21:19 <andythenorth> move nml docs to the repo?
17:21:28 <andythenorth> draw more snowploughs?
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17:25:42 <andythenorth> have we got any nml PRs to merge?
17:27:51 <glx> oh I should comment about the new way using pyinstaller
17:32:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on issue #42: Document how to release nmlc, including building a windows binary https://git.io/Je8vQ
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17:36:55 <andythenorth> ok so now we need a COMPILING.md or similar
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17:41:37 <andythenorth> or we just put the info in README
17:54:49 <andythenorth> maybe it's time for a docs folder
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17:56:31 <andythenorth> eh we have one :)
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18:14:09 <andythenorth> README says it is
18:20:15 <andythenorth> ^ that one's pretty vanilla tbh
18:20:21 * andythenorth probably can't approve own work :P
18:28:10 <andythenorth> there's also nml.spec in root, with a completely different format afaict
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19:07:35 <snail_UES_> in my trackset, it looks like fences are disappearing on snowy terrain
19:07:45 <snail_UES_> but I didn’t code it like that… is it a bug in OTTD by any chance?
19:07:52 <snail_UES_> I’m using version 1.9.1
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19:10:40 <LordAro> snail_UES_: fences have never shown on snowy terrain
19:10:57 <LordAro> though i think a setting for it was introduced recently?
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19:11:28 <snail_UES_> ok, let me check the ottd settings
19:12:13 <snail_UES_> hmm, there seems to be no setting with “fence” in its name
19:12:20 <snail_UES_> but again, maybe it was introduced after 1.9.1?
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19:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not followed that development, but iirc there were never fences on snow/desert
19:21:59 <planetmaker> there weren't iirc
19:22:17 <planetmaker> I wondered about that when I coded railtypes
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19:29:41 <andythenorth> they never fence their tracks :P
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19:45:30 <snail_UES_> doesn’t this sound a bit silly to you guys…? :p
19:45:40 <snail_UES_> I mean, I build a rail line with fences and all
19:45:49 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
19:45:49 <snail_UES_> then it snows, the terrain changes, and the fences disappear...
19:46:02 <snail_UES_> only to reappear next spring...
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19:50:40 <peter1138> Pretty sure that's how it's behaved in *TTD since the start.
19:55:07 <snail_UES_> I mean I guess it wouldn’t be a big change code-wise to reenable fences on snow
19:57:21 <andythenorth> there was probably an issue for it
19:57:24 <andythenorth> I probably closed it :P
19:59:26 <snail_UES_> any chance we can reopen it? :p
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20:07:49 <andythenorth> allegedly fixed ^ snail_UES_
20:09:13 <snail_UES_> so you’re telling me there’s something wrong with my NFO?
20:10:49 <FLHerne> snail_UES_: They just get buried in the snowdrifts
20:11:48 <michi_cc> andythenorth: The nml.spec file you've linked is for building SUSE/Yast linux packages.
20:11:57 <andythenorth> and the one in root?
20:12:19 <michi_cc> No idea, but something completely different.
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20:21:19 <nielsm> someone submitted a PR for having fences on snow and desert a good while ago, but it was poor quality and the submitter didn't follow up on reviews
20:21:35 <LordAro> that's what i was thinking of
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20:26:06 <andythenorth> how do I find r27343
20:28:33 <planetmaker> snail_UES_, but the point is "TTD behaved such - and we keep that at least as default". Other things have been shot down with that reasoning ;)
20:28:59 <andythenorth> it's a good starting point, but hardly consistent as a design approach :)
20:29:12 <andythenorth> we changed sooooo many other things
20:29:33 <snail_UES_> I agree with andythenorth… for certain things, the default TTD behavior wasn’t ideal, so it’s desirable to change it
20:30:41 <planetmaker> it's always in the view of the beholder of what is desirable and what not.
20:31:00 <planetmaker> I see fences on tracks only as railtype property. And additional one to add as an option for NewGRF authors
20:31:35 <nielsm> yeah add a "fence type on snow" and "fence type on desert" property to railtypes
20:31:36 <planetmaker> on tracks... would be inconvenient :P
20:31:59 <planetmaker> nielsm, simply a "fence" sprite. Which is used. And can depend on a terrain check
20:32:04 <planetmaker> no need for separate properties.
20:32:33 <planetmaker> and maybe a flag of "use fence on desert|use fence on snow"
20:33:22 <planetmaker> you should add yourself, andythenorth ;)
20:35:19 <snail_UES_> planetmaker: yes, I agree with you
20:35:28 <snail_UES_> the newGRF author should decide whether to put fences or not
20:35:42 <snail_UES_> but currently that’s not how it works. OTTD just removes fences on snowy terrain
20:36:43 <planetmaker> actually, indeed it only needs two flags in newgrfs... there is a fence sprite. So... hm
20:38:00 <snail_UES_> not even that. One can code fences so that they appear different, accordingly to the terrain type
20:38:17 <planetmaker> you can code anything as function of terrain type
20:38:18 <snail_UES_> the current system would work very well, if only OTTD didn’t remove the fences altogether
20:38:32 <planetmaker> without any change needed. So yes :)
20:38:34 <snail_UES_> I do this for tracks and depots
20:39:00 <snail_UES_> planetmaker: the problem is that OTTD removes the fences on snow by default.. and currently, this can’t be overridden
20:39:17 <planetmaker> it doesn't remove them. There never were any
20:39:30 <snail_UES_> but if I code them, they don’t appear
20:39:40 <snail_UES_> so it removes them
20:39:59 <andythenorth> nielsm: any interest in helping port nml docs to the repo? :P
20:40:07 <planetmaker> You cannot remove something which never existed :) semantics maybe ;)
20:40:32 <snail_UES_> the point is, I code my rails so that fences appear in a certain style, using my own sprites
20:40:50 <snail_UES_> in my code I don’t include the “terrain”, so they’re supposed to appear on any terrain type
20:40:58 <nielsm> andythenorth, insufficient capacity at the moment
20:41:09 <snail_UES_> but they don’t appear on the snow… without me specifically telling OTTD to remove them on the snow
20:41:13 <snail_UES_> hence, it’s OTTD that removes them
20:41:49 <nielsm> OTTD did not decide that fences must not be on snow/desert, chris sawyer decided that back at the dawn of time
20:42:18 <nielsm> yes OTTD contains code that removes fences if the landscape below the fence changes away from grass into snow/desert
20:42:21 <planetmaker> ^^ And thus there are sprites for cases which do not exist by specs
20:43:23 <planetmaker> (my whole point actually is: it's a feature request, not a bug report :) )
20:43:37 <planetmaker> and of course I'm enjoying to twist words :P
20:43:58 <snail_UES_> alright, let’s call this a feature request :p
20:52:54 <andythenorth> is there a way to remove newgrf projects from eints?
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21:00:03 <andythenorth> can't find any mention of it in eints docs
21:03:59 <milek7> fences around rail tracks are a thing IRL? i have never seen one..
21:05:38 <nielsm> depends on the environment?
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21:06:58 <nielsm> I remember reading somewhere that if US railway owners put fences around their tracks they are also responsible for maintaining it and monitoring the track
21:08:00 <nielsm> if someone gets past the fence and onto the tracks and is hit by a train, it's the railway owner's fault, but if there was no fence installed then it's the fault of the person on the rails
21:08:40 <nielsm> so railway owners prefer to not install fences for liability reasons
21:13:23 <nielsm> I wonder if the same applies to trespassers on other industrial property then...
21:13:58 <Arveen> find out ? (you might get shot though)
21:15:24 <Arveen> i got a big coal plant right here . not too long ago someone jumped their fence and got shot in the leg trying to get in (not 'murica)
21:24:38 <andythenorth> we should have a bleeding edge branch :P
21:24:53 <andythenorth> and just approve things for it that look 'probably fine'
21:24:53 <nielsm> we could call it master
21:25:25 <Arveen> isn't that what nightly is ?
21:25:47 <andythenorth> our standards for review are relatively high
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21:25:57 <andythenorth> and still we don't like it when mistakes slip through
21:26:08 <andythenorth> but then that puts a lot of burden on reviewers
21:26:25 <andythenorth> instead of just shipping it to a 'danger' branch and hoping players find bugs :P
21:33:17 <andythenorth> I really should delete all my projects from web translator
21:33:26 <andythenorth> it's not fair to have people waste time translating them
21:34:42 <andythenorth> I still see translation commits in the dead mercurial repos
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21:51:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7849: Fix #7847: Use ViewportSign coordinates for sign Kdtree coordinates https://git.io/JeMYg
21:51:44 <nielsm> glx: I guess it shouldn't be merged as-is
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23:17:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #7847: Crash - Assertion failed at line 213 of src\core\kdtree.hpp: next != INVALID_NODE https://git.io/Je1Eh
23:17:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7849: Fix #7847: Use ViewportSign coordinates for sign Kdtree coordinates https://git.io/Je1bx
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23:29:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws opened pull request #7850: Change: [hotkeys] add missing keycodes for hotkeys.cfg https://git.io/JeM3O
23:57:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] grossws opened pull request #7851: Change: [add support for next/previous railtype global hotkeys https://git.io/JeM3F
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