IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2019-11-21
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00:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: "nice tin can you have there. would be a shame if something happened to it"
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04:44:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #63: Allow PLY to generate parsing/lexing tables. https://git.io/Je6gN
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10:46:40 <Groud[m]> I am a member of the Godot Engine community.
10:47:54 <Groud[m]> This year we are organizing a room at FOSDEM
10:48:44 <Groud[m]> We are looking for people in the open source game and game engine development to come, and eventually give talks
10:49:12 <Groud[m]> As I like OpenTTD a lot, I hoped some of the developpers could come
10:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (just a reminder: "eventually" is probably not the word you were looking for)
10:53:04 <Groud[m]> I'm not sure, translation gives me this word
10:53:27 <Groud[m]> let's replace it by "if you wish so" :)
10:59:27 <planetmaker> hm, that's a weekend... 1/2 February 2020. That's good
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11:34:47 <peter1138> I saw Godot mentioned on Reddit the other day, in the context of emulation. I wasn't quite sure but there was a link to a load of games on itch.io that use it. Looked interesting.
11:36:23 <Groud[m]> hmm, there was a recent news about someone adding godot support to retropie
11:37:11 <peter1138> Probably related, it was retropie stuff.
11:37:28 <peter1138> They tend to call anything emulation, even if it's native, heh.
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12:02:36 <orudge> If it would be beneficial to OpenTTD and an OpenTTD developer wanted to attend, then I daresay funding can be made available.
12:03:11 <peter1138> Do we have many active developers left?
12:05:44 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 8 years, 6 weeks, 5 days, 10 hours, 46 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
12:06:27 <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen Tron.
12:07:20 <peter1138> Anyway, even if I was properly active still, giving talks is definitely not my thing.
12:07:28 <Sacro> I think we should send orudge
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12:45:51 <planetmaker> rubidium should give the talk :P
12:46:32 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: celestar was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 45 weeks, 1 day, 22 hours, 50 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Celestar> lo
12:46:52 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: belugas was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 33 weeks, 3 days, 15 hours, 28 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Belugas> yeah, a birthday :) a good friend of mine!
12:50:42 <Groud[m]> Damn, I hoped the project was a little bit more active ^^
12:51:07 <Groud[m]> Since there was an update in october ^^
12:56:16 <peter1138> It is fairly, we just picked some names of some long-retired devs :p
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13:59:15 <StraToN> peter1138 You mentioned Tron. Is he the Tron who starte ja2-stracciattella project?
14:13:32 <StraToN> Wow, it's a small world
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14:37:28 <andythenorth> sign TB up for a talk
14:42:24 <peter1138> It was. I saladed, again.
14:42:50 <peter1138> And a whole banana. No wonder I'm slim.
14:46:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne commented on pull request #63: Allow PLY to generate parsing/lexing tables. https://git.io/Je6Pa
14:47:04 <andythenorth> I had two tuna sandwiches
14:47:14 <andythenorth> it's a 2 things day
14:47:51 <andythenorth> FLHerne: I tested PR 63 and get zero change in parse time for large grfs, which is probably fine?
14:47:53 <peter1138> 3 mini rice cakes, a plum, and banana, a shortbread biscuit, half a protein bar, a piece of caramac. And a salad.
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14:48:06 <andythenorth> I wondered if I'd failed to run setup correctly, or if that matters
14:49:43 <FLHerne> andythenorth: It only affects init time, so for large grfs it should be a much smaller proportion of overall time
14:50:25 <andythenorth> "python setup.py install" should be enough, right?
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14:50:30 <FLHerne> But still measurable, unless your compile takes so long it gets lost in the noise somewhere :P
14:50:43 <andythenorth> which python version did you test with?
14:50:51 <FLHerne> Check whether generated/parsetab.py gets created under `dist` ?
14:51:51 <andythenorth> hmm dist only contains an egg
14:51:53 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Oh, and make sure you remove it when you're trying to compare, because it's gitignored...
14:52:17 <FLHerne> andythenorth: In the egg, I mean
14:53:06 <andythenorth> hmm, are eggs navigable?
14:53:38 <FLHerne> They're just some kind of container, my file manager doesn't care :P
14:53:58 <andythenorth> I can't trick my shell into navigating it
14:56:06 <FLHerne> Might be easier to just look at the scrollylist of files being put into it
14:56:18 <andythenorth> oh my text editor can just open it
14:57:22 <andythenorth> ok parsetab is there
14:57:29 <LordAro> andythenorth: `file unknownthing` will tell you what it is
14:58:13 <andythenorth> Zip archive apparently, thanks
14:59:16 <FLHerne> Mine is generating both `nml_parsetab.py` /and/ `parsetab.py`, even though I decided the former was stupid ages ago
14:59:30 <FLHerne> That probably means I did something wrong
15:00:53 <FLHerne> Oh, I deleted build/ and now it's ok
15:02:57 <andythenorth> I did try to work out if we could process pool for parsing :P
15:03:02 <andythenorth> but I'm not good enough
15:03:41 <andythenorth> for parallel problems, process pool is a massive boon
15:06:58 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Where do I get FIRS source from now?
15:07:37 <andythenorth> which supports 16 cargo stuff
15:07:43 <FLHerne> I don't really care, I just want a big file :P
15:08:02 <andythenorth> you'll need the deps also
15:09:11 <FLHerne> I think I have most of those
15:14:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #63: Allow PLY to generate parsing/lexing tables. https://git.io/Je6X3
15:14:18 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I get `nmlc ERROR: "generated/firs.nml", line 7342: Syntax error, unexpected token "waiting_cargo_1"`
15:14:24 <FLHerne> with FIRS and nml master
15:15:41 <andythenorth> that's intriguing
15:16:05 <FLHerne> I think your computer is faster than mine :D
15:17:01 <andythenorth> FLHerne: FIRS master?
15:17:16 * andythenorth wonders if we dropped that from nml
15:17:32 <andythenorth> try v4-release-track
15:17:36 <andythenorth> nml version change
15:17:47 <andythenorth> that should have been a major version API bump eh :P
15:28:39 <FLHerne> Also, that's an absurdly huge file
15:29:06 <LordAro> FLHerne: welcome to andy's world of generated nml
15:29:45 <LordAro> he's almost solely responsible for pushing the capabilities of the compiler :p
15:30:49 <andythenorth> LordAro: my nml is a rounding error compared to CETS or NUTS or YETI :P
15:30:57 <andythenorth> actually, maybe not these days :P
15:31:11 <andythenorth> but NUTS was a 30 minute compile time
15:31:42 <LordAro> find -name '*.nml' | xargs wc -l
15:31:48 <LordAro> will give a rough idea of total
15:47:26 <andythenorth> in my generated nml, a lot of it is spurious whitespace / returns
15:50:16 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Another effect of the pregenerated tables is being able to run `python -OO /path/to/nmlc` because it no longer needs to read the docstrings at runtime
15:51:07 <FLHerne> That seems to cut runtime by ~5% for me
15:51:20 <FLHerne> Not a lot, but it's free, so meh
15:51:44 * FLHerne wonders what pypy is like here
15:56:54 <andythenorth> I even wondered about 3.8 vs 3.5
16:22:40 <andythenorth> FWIW I got a huge performance boost in Iron Horse by switching to grfcodec
16:24:28 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Switching to grfcodec?
16:24:40 <FLHerne> writing NFO rather than nml?
16:24:50 <andythenorth> very very frequently only sprites have changed
16:24:56 <andythenorth> which nmlc has no way to understand
16:28:42 <FLHerne> andythenorth: PyPy is 5-and-a-bit times faster at parsing than Python3.7
16:29:24 <FLHerne> 107s -> 19s on my very slow laptop
16:30:35 <FLHerne> Preprocessing is only marginally faster, though
16:31:53 <FLHerne> And everything else is negligible
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18:54:20 <andythenorth> FLHerne: pypy numbers are interesting, I should try it
18:55:03 <andythenorth> time spent in nml parse is about 20-25% of compile time for Iron Horse
18:56:04 <andythenorth> I've never run a pypy thing, my pypy seems to be reporting python3.3
19:00:44 <andythenorth> nml parse is 16s / 44s of FIRS compile
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19:52:01 <andythenorth> why is it so cold?
19:53:06 <Wolf01> Because you live in the north
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20:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: how's the flooding in your area? :)
20:03:21 <Wolf01> Got a pause, tomorrow we'll see if floods again
20:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i must admit, i got a mild chuckle out of this news report recently: "Veneto regional council, which is located on Venice's Grand Canal, was flooded for the first time in its history on Tuesday night — just after it rejected measures to combat climate change."
20:07:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (i think that was last week)
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21:32:58 <andythenorth> fish farm with a little building on coast?
21:33:48 <Wolf01> Fish farms here are along rivers
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21:47:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: there should be some kind of storage place or boat house
21:47:47 <supermop_work_> andythenorth: in Lan Ha bay the little buildings would be floating on the water on a bunch of styrofoam blocks
21:47:52 <frosch123> otherwise, where would you collect the cargo?
21:50:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ages ago surely :P
21:50:07 <andythenorth> let's stop making it
21:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> have they switched to "bio lego" made out of wood yet? :p
21:50:47 <frosch123> i don't think lego death rates are properly reported. there is likely a lot of pension fraud
21:51:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: so you only get there by ship?
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